Applying out of a non-binding BSMD program—mention this on apps?

pangolin25

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I am part of a bsmd program that allows you to apply to other schools without losing your seat. Should I mention this in the application or leave it out?

It could:
  • explain why I am applying after two years of undergrad
  • maybe be impressive as the programs are selective and I have a seat
At the same time, it is unclear what goes on in the mind of an adcom. They could get confused that a bsmd program is non-binding, might find it strange why I am applying to another school if I already have a seat, or might disregard my app because why take a seat from someone who doesn't already have a seat.

Any thoughts?
 

KnightDoc

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I am part of a bsmd program that allows you to apply to other schools without losing your seat. Should I mention this in the application or leave it out?

It could:
  • explain why I am applying after two years of undergrad
  • maybe be impressive as the programs are selective and I have a seat
At the same time, it is unclear what goes on in the mind of an adcom. They could get confused that a bsmd program is non-binding, might find it strange why I am applying to another school if I already have a seat, or might disregard my app because why take a seat from someone who doesn't already have a seat.

Any thoughts?
You are looking at it all wrong, and, quite frankly, are probably too immature to realize that absolutely nobody is going to be impressed by the "selective" program that you were admitted to in HS that is now not good enough for you a mere two years later. ALL US MD schools are selective, some way more than others. On the other hand, it's also not going to be held against you. You should totally do what you want with respect to mentioning it.

If you did your research, you'd realize that a full 2/3 of all applicants have at least one gap year, while you are applying with the equivalent of a negative gap year. The odds are EXTREMELY high that you are not going to be giving up your seat at all, so have at it. There is no way your ECs are going to stack up well when compared to the thousands of applicants who are applying with 1, 2, 3, 4 or more years experience than you have.

If any of the schools you will be applying to were interested in offering you admission after 3 years of UG, they too would offer an accelerated BS/MD program to get their hooks into you in HS. It is EXTREMELY rare for anyone to be offered admission after 3 years of UG and no gap years, other than by going through a program like the one you are applying out of. Good luck!!!!
 
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pangolin25

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You are looking at it all wrong, and, quite frankly, are probably too immature to realize that absolutely nobody is going to be impressed by the "selective" program that you were admitted to in HS that is now not good enough for you a mere two years later. ALL US MD schools are selective, some way more than others. On the other hand, it's also not going to be held against you. You should totally do what you want with respect to mentioning it.

If you did your research, you'd realize that a full 2/3 of all applicants have at least one gap year, while you are applying with the equivalent of a negative gap year. The odds are EXTREMELY high that you are not going to be giving up your seat at all, so have at it. There is no way your ECs are going to stack up well when compared to the thousands of applicants who are applying with 1, 2, 3, 4 or more years experience than you have. If any of the schools you will be applying to were interested in offering you admission after 3 years of UG, they too would offer an accelerated BS/MD program to get their hooks into you in HS. Good luck!!!!

Thanks for your feedback. I'm totally aware that my odds are pretty awful with two years of undergrad, and I appreciate the honesty.
 
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KnightDoc

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Thanks for your feedback. I'm totally aware that my odds are pretty awful with two years of undergrad, and I appreciate the honesty.
So, why subject yourself to it? If you have your heart set on applying out, why not take a gap year to enhance your application and actually make it competitive?? You really shouldn't be overly impressed with the success you had in HS applying to the BS/MD programs. The expectations on you as a HS applicant, the tier of med schools offering the programs (with very few exceptions), and their motives for doing so, are very different than regular med school admissions. It really is the difference between minor league and major league baseball. You are 99% setting yourself up for disappointment.
 
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EdgeTrimmer

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You shouldn't mention that you are in a BSMD program. If you have rising senior standing no one question you why you are applying after 2 years of UG. However as @KnightDoc said competition is at different level and if you think you have the required ECs (and GPA/MCAT), apply with no expectations.
 
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KnightDoc

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You shouldn't mention that you are in a BSMD program. If you have rising senior standing no one question you why you are applying after 2 years of UG. However as @KnightDoc said competition is at different level and if you think you have the required ECs (and GPA/MCAT), apply with no expectations.
I just think unless you have the ability to bend the time/space continuum, it is not possible to have, not so much "required," but competitive ECs after two years of UG when the competition has 3, 4, 5, 6+ years worth.
 

EdgeTrimmer

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I just think unless you have the ability to bend the time/space continuum, it is not possible to have, not so much "required," but competitive ECs after two years of UG when the competition has 3, 4, 5, 6+ years worth.
What if OP had strong medical ECs in HS (which got him into BSMD) and continued them thru 2 years of college? :)
 
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KnightDoc

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What if OP had strong medical ECs in HS (which got him into BSMD) and continued them thru 2 years of college? :)
Interesting, and I'm not an adcom, but I'm not sure how much weight HS ECs receive here, especially because HS kids with great ECs typically use family connections to have access to opportunities that are not available to everyone, which would introduce an element of unfairness that BS/MDs don't seem to mind, given their objectives in recruiting for their programs.

But the answer to your question is, sure, if 20-year Jonas Salk were applying, I'm sure he'd get in somewhere. In general, not so much, even if both of OP's parents are doctors and he was listed a first author on a published research document as a freshman in HS.
 

EdgeTrimmer

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Interesting, and I'm not an adcom, but I'm not sure how much weight HS ECs receive here, especially because HS kids with great ECs typically use family connections to have access to opportunities that are not available to everyone, which would introduce an element of unfairness that BS/MDs don't seem to mind, given their objectives in recruiting for their programs.

But the answer to your question is, sure, if 20-year Jonas Salk were applying, I'm sure he'd get in somewhere. In general, not so much, even if both of OP's parents are doctors and he was listed a first author on a published research document as a freshman in HS.
I agree about it's not level playing field for BSMD programs but as you said does any schools really care about that? What I read is if you continued ECs from HS to college you can mention them in the app, otherwise in PS. I think anyone who was successful in BSMD route will have at least one year head start on ECs.
 
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KnightDoc

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I agree about it's not level playing field for BSMD programs but as you said does any schools really care about that? What I read is if you continued ECs from HS to college you can mention them in the app, otherwise in PS. I think anyone who was successful in BSMD route will have at least one year head start on ECs.
And I respectfully disagree. You are correct that it can and should be mentioned, but HS experiences really don't receive the same weight. Again, I realize you ask because your kid will have some as a former BD/MD candidate with access to these opportunities through a MD parent.

But, think about it like this -- if your kid had enough AP credits to graduate early, do you honestly think he would have been a competitive candidate last year, on account of the ECs he had in HS in addition to his first two years of UG? All I'm saying is that the ECs that get you into a BS/MD program are not a substitute for UG and gap year level experiences when applying to med school, so, no adding HS hours from continuing activities to UG hours does not make a rising junior (or, in your words, third year senior) a competitive med school applicant.
 
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EdgeTrimmer

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And I respectfully disagree. You are correct that it can and should be mentioned, but HS experiences really don't receive the same weight. Again, I realize you ask because your kid will have some as a former BD/MD candidate with access to these opportunities through a MD parent.

But, think about it like this -- if your kid had enough AP credits to graduate early, do you honestly think he would have been a competitive candidate last year, on account of the ECs he had in HS in addition to his first two years of UG? All I'm saying is that the ECs that get you into a BS/MD program are not a substitute for UG and gap year level experiences when applying to med school, so, no adding HS hours from continuing activities to UG hours does not make a rising junior (or, in your words, third year senior) a competitive med school applicant.
Only help my kid got from MD parent is shadowing, not even clinical volunteering, that's what happens when one works for big hospital systems. so I am not talking with a privileged background :)

What you said generally about AP credits and ECs is true but I know someone who matriculated to a T30 medical school from a BSMD program after finishing UG in 3 years last year. As long as OP applies with low expectations, I don't see anything wrong with applying.
 
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gonnif

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Only help my kid got from MD parent is shadowing, not even clinical volunteering, that's what happens when one works for big hospital systems. so I am not talking with a privileged background :)

What you said generally about AP credits and ECs is true but I know someone who matriculated to a T30 medical school from a BSMD program after finishing UG in 3 years last year. As long as OP applies with low expectations, I don't see anything wrong with applying.
The risk in applying with low expectation because of weak application, such as weak EC, little evidence of maturity, etc, leads to a lower risk of acceptance, thus making the chances of being a reapplicant higher. Applying before your ready, at young age, based on optimism and naivety, itself can be seen as weak overall judgement.

Also to note, HS activities, while they can continue into college, rarely are that impactful or important, and are seen as such
 
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EdgeTrimmer

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The risk in applying with low expectation because of weak application, such as weak EC, little evidence of maturity, etc, leads to a lower risk of acceptance, thus making the chances of being a reapplicant higher. Applying before your ready, at young age, based on optimism and naivety, itself can be seen as weak overall judgement.

Also to note, HS activities, while they can continue into college, rarely are that impactful or important, and are seen as such
OP is in a BSMD program which won't rescind MD admission for applying out. So what's OP losing by applying (other than time and money)?
 
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KnightDoc

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OP is in a BSMD program which won't rescind MD admission for applying out. So what's OP losing by applying (other than time and money)?
It's not what he's losing by applying -- it's what he's losing by applying before the application is ready. And the answer is the opportunity to go to a better school, which is what is driving this whole discussion!!!! :)
 
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EdgeTrimmer

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It's not what he's losing by applying -- it's what he's losing by applying before the application is ready. An the answer is the opportunity to go to a better school, which is what is driving this whole discussion!!!! :)
If OP is in a 7 year program they have to apply now, otherwise defer MD matriculation or give it up. So I don't think apply when ready applies here :)
 
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KnightDoc

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If OP is in a 7 year program they have to apply now, otherwise defer MD matriculation or give it up. So I don't think apply when ready applies here :)
And this is why accelerated programs are a terrible idea for someone who wants to apply out. If he cannot defer his guaranteed seat and be allowed to apply out during the gap year, he'd better realize he's probably wasting his time, and, according to the post above, his eyes are indeed wide open, so why are we still going back and forth??? :)
 

pangolin25

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Thank you for all your feedback. I'm not applying with much optimism; I don't have anything to lose because I am not unhappy with my program's medical school (wouldn't have bothered with the program if I was). Simplifying a little, but I don't want to give up on two years worth of future patients for two years building ECs for a better med school
 

KnightDoc

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Thank you for all your feedback. I'm not applying with much optimism; I don't have anything to lose because I am not unhappy with my program's medical school (wouldn't have bothered with the program if I was). Simplifying a little, but I don't want to give up on two years worth of future patients for two years building ECs for a better med school
Then why bother at all? Why not just stay where you are, where you are not unhappy, and spare yourself the aggravation? Just seems like a ton of squeeze with very little prospect of any juice.

And, for the record, the suggestion has been for you to consider at least one gap year, not two, to at least put you on a level playing field with all of the regular applicants applying for entry directly from UG with no gap years. The problem with what you are proposing is that basically 66% of matriculants have at least one gap year, 33% have no gap years, and pretty much 0% have less than 4 years of UG with no gap years, other than those coming from accelerated direct entry programs, like the one you are applying out of. Those are your odds. Once again, good luck.
 
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LizzyM

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From my perspective, knowing that the applicant already has a ticket to medical school makes me less likely to recommend for interview. I know that this person will get to go to medical school regardless of my decision so I can free up the highly coveted interview seat for someone who doesn't yet have their ticket punched. That said, if the applicant brought something very rare and valuable to the table (cured cancer the summer after freshman year) then I might recommend interview with the hope of luring the applicant away from the school that has already admitted them.

So, knowing that, do you think you should reveal that you are in a BS/MD program?
 
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Damson

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You are looking at it all wrong, and, quite frankly, are probably too immature to realize that absolutely nobody is going to be impressed by the "selective" program that you were admitted to in HS that is now not good enough for you a mere two years later.

honesty is good, but i think uninformed and immature are two different states of mind. the latter, we shouldn't simply cast at someone who made a short first post on sdn
 

Damson

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I am part of a bsmd program that allows you to apply to other schools without losing your seat. Should I mention this in the application or leave it out?

It could:
  • explain why I am applying after two years of undergrad
  • maybe be impressive as the programs are selective and I have a seat
At the same time, it is unclear what goes on in the mind of an adcom. They could get confused that a bsmd program is non-binding, might find it strange why I am applying to another school if I already have a seat, or might disregard my app because why take a seat from someone who doesn't already have a seat.

Any thoughts?

Don't include that you are in a BSMD program in your app. Like @LizzyM said, it makes adcoms less likely to give you a valuable interview spot.

We don't know where you are in your BSMD track at the moment, but
- if you are set to matriculate this August, take it
- if you are set to matriculate next August, go ahead and apply to other schools now and see what comes out of that

Having been on this forum for a little while, seeing all of the time and pain premeds have had to endure to get into even one medical school, I want you to play your cards carefully. If you have a seat ready for you and you already meet all of its articulated requirements, take it. Do not delay to "make your app more competitive." As @Goro would imply, "a bird in hand..." Success in your BSMD pathway is #1, getting into other schools through the traditional pathway is #2. You can do it.
 
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KnightDoc

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From my perspective, knowing that the applicant already has a ticket to medical school makes me less likely to recommend for interview. I know that this person will get to go to medical school regardless of my decision so I can free up the highly coveted interview seat for someone who doesn't yet have their ticket punched. That said, if the applicant brought something very rare and valuable to the table (cured cancer the summer after freshman year) then I might recommend interview with the hope of luring the applicant away from the school that has already admitted them.

So, knowing that, do you think you should reveal that you are in a BS/MD program?
Okay, so now, playing Devil's Advocate, after not revealing he's in a BS/MD program, and assuming he hasn't yet cured cancer since I cannot find any mention of it on Google, what WOULD it take for you to grant a highly coveted interview seat to someone who just completed his second year of UG? Anything?

I noticed that one prominent NY schools requires "at least three full academic years at a regionally accredited college in the United States or Canada" in order to apply. Do you happen to know if this means that students who enter UG with enough AP credits to graduate in 3 years are not welcome to apply until after they graduate, or are all of those credits considered one full academic year at a regionally accredited college?
 
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Damson

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Thought this would be useful to mention to @pangolin25

One friend got into Albert Einstein and Wayne State after 2 years of UG. After soph sem 1, he studied for his MCAT over the winter, got 517 in january.
Sent his application after sophomore year. Interviews over summer and fall 2019. Graduated after junior year
May have gotten into more but I haven't asked
He's starting school this fall

@KnightDoc , @LizzyM is at a very prestigious research med school (i think), so her criteria and expectations are different to say the least
 

KnightDoc

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Thought this would be useful to mention to @pangolin25

One friend got into Albert Einstein and Wayne State after 2 years of UG. After soph sem 1, he studied for his MCAT over the winter, got 517 in january.
Sent his application after sophomore year. Interviews over summer and fall 2019. Graduated after junior year
May have gotten into more but I haven't asked
He's starting school this fall

@KnightDoc , @LizzyM is at a very prestigious research med school (i think), so her criteria and expectations are different to say the least
Okay, but OP is already accepted at a non-very prestigious research med school, so I'm assuming that's what he's shooting for, rather applying out of "Six" med school to see if he can get into "Half-A-Dozen" med school. :)

Also, from everything all the adcoms have been posting here, your friend is an outlier.
 

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We don't know whether or not OP is accepted yet. As a previous BSDO student, there are requirements I had to meet, so I expect the OP has GPA and MCAT benchmarks in his/her program as well

As for your outlier comment - after watching my friend and what he did to get where he is today, I think more people can achieve this than we realize as long as they get into the mindset early. Here it is - it's not all too complicated. Focus on classes from day 1 of undergrad. Throughout undergrad, take out a few AAMC prep hub questions once in a while and do them (should be kinda fun). During free time, relax as well as find some volunteering/leadership work to do. After taking necessary prereqs, start MCAT study while the content is still fresh in mind. Emphasis on practice, not content. Scour SDN and other sources to make sure your application is done right, have multiple eyes vet before submission. Don't overprepare for interviews, chill out and have a conversation with the adcom.

This is what he did, and OP can do the same if he wants to get in traditionally. Most smart premeds can do this - it's just that a lot of them didn't have anyone to tell them that this is what they should do, and give them the confidence to do it. Hope my post here is encouraging for the OP - you can do it too.

Again though, a bird in hand...
 

KnightDoc

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We don't know whether or not OP is accepted yet. As a previous BSDO student, there are requirements I had to meet, so I expect the OP has GPA and MCAT benchmarks in his/her program as well

As for your outlier comment - after watching my friend and what he did to get where he is today, I think more people can achieve this than we realize as long as they get into the mindset early. Here it is - it's not all too complicated. Focus on classes from day 1 of undergrad. Throughout undergrad, take out a few AAMC prep hub questions once in a while and do them (should be kinda fun). During free time, relax as well as find some volunteering/leadership work to do. After taking necessary prereqs, start MCAT study while the content is still fresh in mind. Emphasis on practice, not content. Scour SDN and other sources to make sure your application is done right, have multiple eyes vet before submission. Don't overprepare for interviews, chill out and have a conversation with the adcom.

This is what he did, and OP can do the same if he wants to get in traditionally. Most smart premeds can do this - it's just that a lot of them didn't have anyone to tell them that this is what they should do, and give them the confidence to do it. Hope my post here is encouraging for the OP - you can do it too.

Again though, a bird in hand...
I'm honestly not sure what the significance of whether or not he is already accepted is, since any benchmarks in a direct entry program are, by design, significantly lower than those for a regular applicant. If OP does not have his guaranteed seat locked up, there is really no point to this thread since he would then be, by definition, uncompetitive everywhere.

If your response to my outlier comment is true, then the vast majority of applicants with 3, 4, 5, 6 or more years of experience, academics and MCATs are really incompetent to only have a 40% accept rate, considering how easy it is for someone with only 2 years of experience, so long as one is properly motivated. :laugh:
 

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I'm honestly not sure what the significance of whether or not he is already accepted is, since any benchmarks in a direct entry program are, by design, significantly lower than those for a regular applicant. If OP does not have his guaranteed seat locked up, there is really no point to this thread since he would then be, by definition, uncompetitive everywhere.

If your response to my outlier comment is true, then the vast majority of applicants with 3, 4, 5, 6 or more years of experience, academics and MCATs are really incompetent to only have a 40% accept rate, considering how easy it is for someone with only 2 years of experience, so long as one is properly motivated. :laugh:

Good point on the first paragraph

If properly informed and motivated, one will make it. Adcoms just want candidates who have good experiences and demonstrated ability to succeed in medical school, as well as good character through interviews. One doesn't need to rack up more than four years of experience and grades if things are done properly from the start. Good use of time in school, good use of time during spring, winter, and summer vacations. UG is not a time to screw around
 
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KnightDoc

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Good point on the first paragraph

If properly informed and motivated, one will make it. Adcoms just want candidates who have good experiences and demonstrated ability to succeed in medical school, as well as good character through interviews. One doesn't need to rack up more than four years of experience and grades if things are done properly from the start. Good use of time in school, good use of time during spring, winter, and summer vacations. UG is not a time to screw around
Okay ... the points you are making are obvious. My point was simply that it's easier said than done. Remember, a generation ago, you didn't need any of the extra stuff you need today to be accepted to a US medical school. Increased competition has turned it into the arms race of ever greater EC expectations that we have today.

Believe me, your friend absolutely is an outlier. The fact that the overall accept rate is around 40%, with most candidates having at least one gap year, and with the vast majority of applicants being extremely highly motivated (as you correctly alluded to being a prerequisite to being successful) is the proof of this. By definition, your friend is an outlier because he was able to do multiple times with two years experience what 60% of applicants fail to do with 3 or more (66% of applicants have more!) years of experience! Virtually no applicants (relatively speaking) even attempt it each year.
 
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Damson

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Okay ... the points you are making are obvious. My point was simply that it's easier said than done. Remember, a generation ago, you didn't need any of the extra stuff you need today to be accepted to a US medical school. Increased competition has turned it into the arms race of ever greater EC expectations that we have today.

Believe me, your friend absolutely is an outlier. The fact that the overall accept rate is around 40%, with most candidates having at least one gap year, and with the vast majority of applicants being extremely highly motivated (as you correctly alluded to being a prerequisite to being successful) is the proof of this. By definition, your friend is an outlier because he was able to do multiple times with two years experience what 60% of applicants fail to do with 3 or more (66% of applicants have more!) years of experience! Virtually no applicants (relatively speaking) even attempt it each year.

I agree that he is an outlier. But my point was, more premeds than we think can achieve the same, given the right behavior and exposures. My post is intended to be one of those exposures for OP
 

pangolin25

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I have already submitted with no mention of bs/md thanks to the advice of many, but since there is some question as to why I am bothering applying, I thought I'd clarify -- I have to submit AMCAS to the program's school as a formality; the application is to be automatically accepted without interview so I may matriculate next August, as I meet all program requirements. There is no downside to submitting AMCAS to other schools. I don't plan to delay; I will take the seat if I am not accepted anywhere (likely) and will therefore never be a reapplicant. Hope this shows that it is overall a no-brainer for me to try my best on AMCAS this year even with no cancer cures.

You all make excellent discussion and interesting points
 
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KnightDoc

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I agree that he is an outlier. But my point was, more premeds than we think can achieve the same, given the right behavior and exposures. My post is intended to be one of those exposures for OP
It's an optimistic point, but the numbers suggest otherwise. (If only we all worked harder and wanted it more, the med school acceptance rate would be 100%?) OP is competing against thousands of people, just like him, some with better stats, some with worse, but ALL with more years of EC experiences.

It's a lot to overcome, and outliers are outliers for a reason. More premeds actually can't achieve the same because, assuming more premeds do as you suggest, the numbers dictate that those with 3+ years of ECs will always have an advantage over those with less. And more HS basketball players can achieve the success of Kobe or LeBron, if only they would want it more, because those guys are not outliers. :laugh:
 

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worked harder and wanted it more

if only they would want it more

This is not what I said.

I said,
1. good academic capacity
2. right behavior and exposures
3. Good use of time in school, good use of time during spring, winter, and summer vacations
4. focus from day 1
5. informed, motivated, and supervised by someone who knows exactly what one should be doing in UG

1 is the case for a lot of premeds. 2~4 can all come from one's experiences/background + 5, but unfortunately 5 was missed, and is missing for many.
 
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deleted962722

I was actually wondering something similar. I was accepted to a BS/MD program in high school but chose not to attend for several reasons, the main one being significant differences in COA. I noticed several secondaries ask if I have been previously admitted to medical school. Would everyone's advice to OP change in these circumstances?

I'm applying to the school I was accepted to and they told me to not put reapplicant on my AMCAS primary. For other schools in secondaries I'll probably just call to be sure, but am curious on everyone's thoughts after reading this thread.
 

KnightDoc

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I was actually wondering something similar. I was accepted to a BS/MD program in high school but chose not to attend for several reasons, the main one being significant differences in COA. I noticed several secondaries ask if I have been previously admitted to medical school. Would everyone's advice to OP change in these circumstances?

I'm applying to the school I was accepted to and they told me to not put reapplicant on my AMCAS primary. For other schools in secondaries I'll probably just call to be sure, but am curious on everyone's thoughts after reading this thread.
This is absolutely a non-issue. DO NOT WASTE YOUR TIME CALLING. You were accepted to a program, not a med school. If the school whose program you were accepted to does not consider you a reapplicant, your inquiry is over. To my knowledge, none of the other programs, aside from UMKC, considers you enrolled in med school from day one, and does not condition your future "guaranteed" acceptance to their affiliated med school on some future metric (grades, MCAT, service, interview, etc.)

Have you ever completed and submitted an application through AMCAS, TMDSAS or AACOMAS before? If not, YOU ARE NOT A REAPPLICANT, AND HAVE NEVER BEEN ACCEPTED TO ANY MEDICAL SCHOOL. Good luck!!!!!
 
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