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Cosmo 23

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Hi all, I have applied to both counseling and clinical psych PhD programs and am wondering if there are other posters on this board who have as well. I continue to weight the pros and cons of the different programs and would love to hear from others who have applied to both, as I haven't seen much talk of counseling phd programs. I graduated from a 2year counseling psych program and applied to both coun and clin phd programs.
Good luck to everyone!
 

Dr.Maybe

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Hi there. I also applied to both (5 Clinical and 4 Counseling), and have a Masters in Counseling Psychology. For me, deciding where to apply was really about fit - I looked for equal emphasis programs where professors were conducting research in my interest areas. I also tried to find programs that would at least partially recognize my Masters, and not make me repeat all of those classes!
 

Cosmo 23

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Ditto on all counts...I looked for fit and for a program that would, at minimum, see my masters as an asset, not as a detriment, as I understand some of the more competitvite research oriented programs do (e.g., Rutgers, Penn) I also have my masters in counseling psych and get the sense that clinical psych PhDs are more highly regarded that coun and that they have more flexibility, in terms of ability to work in hospital settings, clinics, govt agencies, etc. But I think my assumptions may be wrong and informed by the dynamic between the counseling and clinical programs at my school.
 
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paramour

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I'm another person applying to both clinical & counseling programs. I had no intentions of applying to counseling when I started this cycle but I had a few profs recommend it (one with a clinical degree, the other started a clinical program & transferred to the counseling program). So, I finally broke down and applied to three. Two of those were really big stretches, but the third one seems absolutely perfect for me. Research interests fit perfectly with the professor. Professor's personality seems to match well with mine thus far. And, looking at the program itself, it allows room for flexibility in order to tailor it to my needs. Heck, the professor actually has tons of clinical experience more than traditional "counseling" and students are allowed to take classes from the clinical track if desired. I'm actually more excited about this program than I am with several of the clinical ones I applied to . . . but we shall see after all is done.
 

Dr.Maybe

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I wouldn't worry too much about a counseling degree offering less flexibility, less prestige, etc. I think the degrees are very similar at this point, and that almost any psychologist you come across in the field will respect either one. With that said, I do think that people with clinical degrees will ultimately prefer theirs, and vice versa, so it might depend on what environment you are working in.
 

paramour

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I wouldn't worry too much about a counseling degree offering less flexibility, less prestige, etc. I think the degrees are very similar at this point, and that almost any psychologist you come across in the field will respect either one. With that said, I do think that people with clinical degrees will ultimately prefer theirs, and vice versa, so it might depend on what environment you are working in.

I'm not concerned about prestige--I find myself actually drawn to some of the smaller programs at this point, and my matches fit much better into them as well.

As far as flexibility is concerned, I was referring to course selection and internship/practicum opportunities more than anything. Several of the counseling programs I initially reviewed had more emphasis on vocational/educational counseling, which I have absolutely no interest in. Others were such a far stretch from my current needs I did not see the point in applying to 'em. I find more clinical programs with my current research interests, which is why I have applied to mainly clinical. Counseling is in no way inferior to clinical--simply depends upon what one is looking for and with most programs I reviewed, they were not what I was looking for.

And, I agree--I suspect that most people will prefer whatever area they have a degree in. I've only found one individual who cannot stand his area (clinical) and recommended counseling over it. And, then the other person who applied to clinical, switched to counseling, and is touting it as the best thing since the wheel . . . Of course, now that I think about it, I also have a dept chair who entered into clinical and then transferred into strictly developmental. So, who knows! :)

G'luck on your apps, regardless of their specialization! :luck:
 

Quynh2007

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i applied to 6 clin and 1 counceling (columbia's TC) because all the profs. there are doing intervention research. good luck:luck:
 
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Either degree will get you the same license and the same scope of practice, so go where you prefer to go.
 

Cosmo 23

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Hi, I know and appreciate that they are the same license. My question is more nuanced.

My experience is that if they (clinical and counseling psychologists) have negative perceptions of the other, it tends to be as follows.... that clinical psychologists think counseling psychs aren't properly trained in diagnosis, assessment and efficacious treatment techniques while counseling psychs believe that clinical psychs are all too eager to pathologize normal behavior that occurs as part of human development. I don't necessarily agree with these perceptions, so please don't inundate the board with notes to the contrary. I simply wonder how these stereotypes play out in a marketplace where there are still more clinical psychologists but where the ranks of counseling psychologists are growing rapidly. Especially when it comes to competing for prestigious jobs in hospitals and govt agencies.

Have others experienced these opinions from the psychologists they know and work with or maybe I am parsing this too finely?
 

Therapist4Chnge

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I simply wonder how these stereotypes play out in a marketplace where there are still more clinical psychologists but where the ranks of counseling psychologists are growing rapidly. Especially when it comes to competing for prestigious jobs in hospitals and govt agencies.

Interesting question....I don't know the answer, but am interested to hear what people think. Coming from the clinical side I don't really know much about counseling programs, and how they differ from clinical programs.

-t
 

Cosmo 23

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Hi all,
Just wondering if any other posters had comments on merits of counseling vs. clinical PhD programs, in terms of marketability, reputations, assumptions about the other, etc.
Thanks.

Hi, I know and appreciate that they are the same license. My question is more nuanced.

My experience is that if they (clinical and counseling psychologists) have negative perceptions of the other, it tends to be as follows.... that clinical psychologists think counseling psychs aren't properly trained in diagnosis, assessment and efficacious treatment techniques while counseling psychs believe that clinical psychs are all too eager to pathologize normal behavior that occurs as part of human development. I don't necessarily agree with these perceptions, so please don't inundate the board with notes to the contrary. I simply wonder how these stereotypes play out in a marketplace where there are still more clinical psychologists but where the ranks of counseling psychologists are growing rapidly. Especially when it comes to competing for prestigious jobs in hospitals and govt agencies.

Have others experienced these opinions from the psychologists they know and work with or maybe I am parsing this too finely?
 

Dr.Maybe

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Hi all,
Just wondering if any other posters had comments on merits of counseling vs. clinical PhD programs, in terms of marketability, reputations, assumptions about the other, etc.
Thanks.

Having graduated from a Counseling Psych masters program, I would agree that many people on the counseling track seemed to feel that clinical folks are more pathologizing and tended to view people "in a bubble" as opposed to taking culture, environment, etc. into consideration. And, I would agree that my friends and supervisors with clinical training seemed to think that counseling people are a little less research-oriented and that the degree generally carried a little less weight. I don't really agree with the broad assumptions of either side, and I think that the differences between the degrees might only really matter if you were holding a clinical degree and working with only counseling psychologists, or vice versa. But even then, I think the slight differences in training/background could be seen as assets in a working or academic environment. So, anyway, this is my long-winded way of saying that I think that any perceived differences in the quality of training, marketability, and reputation of the two degrees are highly debatable (obviously!). Personally, I have no reservations applying to both kinds of programs, and will be thrilled to call myself a psychologist either way!
 

Cosmo 23

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Thanks for your comments Dr.Maybe. Personally, I agree with you and I would be honored to go to any of the counseling or clinical progmrams to which I applied. I was just curious if others had been exposed to the negative perceptions that counseling and clinical psycholoigitst have about each other. These perceptions were fairly strongly held (among faculty and doc students) at the school where I did my masters level work so I think I may be especially attune to it and therfore parsing the distinctions between the programs too finely.

I've also realized that each program is unique and that clinical/counseling is just one distinction among many (e.g., I know one clinical program that has very little research emphasis at all with a so-so reputation and another counseling program with a great reputation and a good amount of funded research.)
Take care and good luck.

Having graduated from a Counseling Psych masters program, I would agree that many people on the counseling track seemed to feel that clinical folks are more pathologizing and tended to view people "in a bubble" as opposed to taking culture, environment, etc. into consideration. And, I would agree that my friends and supervisors with clinical training seemed to think that counseling people are a little less research-oriented and that the degree generally carried a little less weight. I don't really agree with the broad assumptions of either side, and I think that the differences between the degrees might only really matter if you were holding a clinical degree and working with only counseling psychologists, or vice versa. But even then, I think the slight differences in training/background could be seen as assets in a working or academic environment. So, anyway, this is my long-winded way of saying that I think that any perceived differences in the quality of training, marketability, and reputation of the two degrees are highly debatable (obviously!). Personally, I have no reservations applying to both kinds of programs, and will be thrilled to call myself a psychologist either way!
 

Therapist4Chnge

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I would agree that many people on the counseling track seemed to feel that clinical folks are more pathologizing

:laugh:

I actually thought of this tonight. I couldn't remember which thread I read it, but it came up when I was consulting about a case. I asked myself if I was over-pathalogizing (I wasn't ;) ). Just thought that was funny, because it can happen.

-t
 
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