Applying to Dual Degree Programs

[siinew]

Hi,

I'm applying to several allopathic (and osteopathic) schools, and wouldn't mind at all doing a dual MD/PhD (physiology). I am applying to some dual degree and some just straight MD programs as I go, and I can't help but wonder if doing that, or applying to a dual degree program in general will hurt my chances, vs. just applying to an MD program only.

I'm a non-trad, btw (40 y.o.), with a lot of previous medical experience and great LOR's from folks in the medical community. Nonetheless, I can't help but wonder if they might think that being my age means I really shouldn't be doing a dual degree, as time's a wastin'.

Is it generally possible to get into an MD program and then get into a dual degree program once you are accepted at a particular school? Maybe that's the best way to proceed. Seems like they would want to plan better ahead who is coming in for what, from the start of the application process.

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[DrBowtie]

Hi,

I'm applying to several allopathic (and osteopathic) schools, and wouldn't mind at all doing a dual MD/PhD (physiology). I am applying to some dual degree and some just straight MD programs as I go, and I can't help but wonder if doing that, or applying to a dual degree program in general will hurt my chances, vs. just applying to an MD program only.

I'm a non-trad, btw (40 y.o.), with a lot of previous medical experience and great LOR's from folks in the medical community. Nonetheless, I can't help but wonder if they might think that being my age means I really shouldn't be doing a dual degree, as time's a wastin'.

Is it generally possible to get into an MD program and then get into a dual degree program once you are accepted at a particular school? Maybe that's the best way to proceed. Seems like they would want to plan better ahead who is coming in for what, from the start of the application process.

I'd figure out what type of career you want. The statement that leads me to believe an MD/PhD degree isn't for you is that you "wouldn't mind at all doing a dual MD/PhD".

 

[chandelantern]

Hi,

I'm applying to several allopathic (and osteopathic) schools, and wouldn't mind at all doing a dual MD/PhD (physiology). I am applying to some dual degree and some just straight MD programs as I go, and I can't help but wonder if doing that, or applying to a dual degree program in general will hurt my chances, vs. just applying to an MD program only.

I'm a non-trad, btw (40 y.o.), with a lot of previous medical experience and great LOR's from folks in the medical community. Nonetheless, I can't help but wonder if they might think that being my age means I really shouldn't be doing a dual degree, as time's a wastin'.

Is it generally possible to get into an MD program and then get into a dual degree program once you are accepted at a particular school? Maybe that's the best way to proceed. Seems like they would want to plan better ahead who is coming in for what, from the start of the application process.

It depends how competitive you are for MD/PhD. It is generally more difficult to get into these programs than just MD (previous research is obviously required, and lots of it w/ pubs, etc is best). I do not think age will be the determining factor, although they may bring it up in an interview just to know you have thought about it and aren't applying for these programs for the wrong reasons. If you decide to apply just MD and then try to get into the PhD part, I do not know if all schools allow you to do this, AND I'm pretty sure you will not get the stipend to cover tuition/living, where if you apply and are accepted off the bat to MD/PhD programs they usually do cover it all.

 

[relentless11]

Hi,

I'm applying to several allopathic (and osteopathic) schools, and wouldn't mind at all doing a dual MD/PhD (physiology). I am applying to some dual degree and some just straight MD programs as I go, and I can't help but wonder if doing that, or applying to a dual degree program in general will hurt my chances, vs. just applying to an MD program only.

I'm a non-trad, btw (40 y.o.), with a lot of previous medical experience and great LOR's from folks in the medical community. Nonetheless, I can't help but wonder if they might think that being my age means I really shouldn't be doing a dual degree, as time's a wastin'.

Is it generally possible to get into an MD program and then get into a dual degree program once you are accepted at a particular school? Maybe that's the best way to proceed. Seems like they would want to plan better ahead who is coming in for what, from the start of the application process.

Apply into a medical scientist training program (MSTP) requires that you first be admitted into the MD program. Therefore if they think you can't cut it in the MSTP, but you are accepted into MD, then you get in as just an MD. MSTP programs are however quite competative, and extremely rigorous. At UCSF, the people that got in had a mean GPA of 3.84 and mean MCAT of 34. Not to mention a significant research background. Of course this is because MSTP's pay for your tuition.

You can always do a masters or PhD after entering an MD program, but you will need to be admitted into the graduate program, so you will have to apply all over again. OF course at best you can get your PhD program paid for, but you will still have to pay for med school.

Regardless of which route you go, you really gotta think about it because you will be devoting at least 8 years of your life, not to mention its not a cakewalk. In the eyes of my major professor, who did the MSTP at UCSF, thought the PhD was harder than med school, but the "hard labor" made him stronger to survive his residency and fellowship programs. You really should know if you want to do this or not, since bailing out of a PhD program, even while in med school is generally frowned upon.

 

[snobored18]

Is it generally possible to get into an MD program and then get into a dual degree program once you are accepted at a particular school? Maybe that's the best way to proceed. Seems like they would want to plan better ahead who is coming in for what, from the start of the application process.

This might be a great route for you to look at...I know many schools will happily accept applications from current M1s and M2s who would like to join the schools MSTP program. I can't tell you how successful the applicants are at actually gaining a position, but I do know it is done. From your post I have no idea what kind of research experience you have, but someone will invariably tell you that you need a lot for a dual degree. This doesn't mean performing technical duties...rather being involved in the creative process, helping to conduct and design your own project and the most critical part of your application will be the letters from your PIs attesting to your abilities and any publications and abstracts you may have.

I wouldn't worry about your age...although you have to realize 40 is a bit old for a dual degree considering the total training will encompass 12-14 years or more. You may have more to prove to a committee as far as committment than a 22 year old applicant in some areas. The 40 MSTP programs are extremely competive and there is some risk at some schools when you apply dual degree that you will get overlooked for just MD. My advice since I see you are applying both allo and osteo is to inquire about the dual degree program when you interview, but unless you have extensive research experience right now to forego applying to dual degree programs and wait and see how med school goes.

 

[nosugrefneb]

This might be a great route for you to look at...I know many schools will happily accept applications from current M1s and M2s who would like to join the schools MSTP program. I can't tell you how successful the applicants are at actually gaining a position, but I do know it is done. From your post I have no idea what kind of research experience you have, but someone will invariably tell you that you need a lot for a dual degree. This doesn't mean performing technical duties...rather being involved in the creative process, helping to conduct and design your own project and the most critical part of your application will be the letters from your PIs attesting to your abilities and any publications and abstracts you may have.

This is what I'm doing and you're often more successful at gaining admission to a graduate program this way rather than initially applying MSTP for a number of reasons. For instance, many grad programs are more apt to take on a student who's already been involved with the school, which you obviously will have been at the time of your application. Also, they can see that you've already gone through a rigorous admissions process to get into their medical school in the first place, so that's a bit of a resume boost in a way (and often you can just use your MCAT score in place of a GRE score, which is handy, since you'd have to take it during medical school).

As far as research experience goes, this route is also slightly more lax about it because there are usually numerous opportunities to become involved in research AND become a member of a lab during the first two years, both of which are huge advantages for getting in. I, for example, didn't do too terribly much research as an undergrad - certainly not enough to have applied as MSTP (nor did I have interest in doing so) - but since I was able to be productive during my summer off after first year and develop a good relationship with my PI and much of my department, it was a big plus despite not having had lengthy research stints prior to entering med school. Plus, I hated research before medical school, so my experience with it after I started really turned me around.