Applying to Medical School with Felony

[medschool733]

In June of 2011 I was arrested for a felony dui and drug paraphernalia conviction at the age of 19. I wasn't convicted of the two until May of 2013. Since February 6, 2012 I have been clean and sober from drugs and alcohol and have become an active member of Alcoholics Anonymous. Since my sentencing date I have completed four months in prison, paid off all of my fines, completed probation, and got my license back. In Arizona there is no way to get charges expunged from your record you can only get them set aside but they still remain on your record. I believe I have a good case to show that I have completely changed my life around since the day of the DUI but am discouraged because I have read that drug charges are very looked down upon when applying for medical school. By the time I am applying for medical school the charges will be about 6-8 years old. Basically, I am wondering if anyone has ever gotten into medical school and obtained licensing with similar charges or if anyone has any helpful information on the subject.

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[seeinghowitgoes]

There have been several members on here who have reported being accepted with either a DUI or drug related charges. However, I'm not familiar with anyone who has had to apply with both.

You have a few things going for your case. You were only 19 years old. The charges were from eight years ago (at the time of application). And you have been a flawless student and law-abiding citizen ever since. I would also advise getting involved with volunteering for an addiction center or maybe finding a way to spread your story to high school students about the consequences of underage drinking and drugs. Turn this experience into the most positive thing possible.

The main thing going against you is that these are felonies not misdemeanors. Does that change the severity of what you did? Not really. But people don't like the sound of a felony. Even if you somehow got them expunged you would have to report them. I'm sorry you got caught doing what so many successful applicants have done at some point in their youth. Let me know if I can help further if you're serious about applying, we can brainstorm some EC ideas.

First, I just want to say trying to "game" this to artificially "turn it into a positive experience" does not sit well with me. OP already has made it positive (aka has clearly learned from it, takes addiction seriously as evidenced by AA, etc) but to do more only for admissions seems wrong and also if it's been years and OP just starts now talking to high school students when he hadn't felt that drive to in the past, I think it comes off as disingenuous. Not every person who has been affected by drugs/alcohol has to run to warn society - you can have other interests and trying to fit into a box may not be best.

Second, no not every youth gets multiple felonies and becomes an active member in AA. While I absolutely commend, truly, OP for the hard work since age 19, to normalize this and say everybody does this but only some get caught takes away from the hard work that some must do to stay clean and sober. I doubt any malice in your post but I feel it's important to point out.

Now to address the question, I can't speak with certainty to whether it is possible to get into medical school because I'm not a dean. Fact is you've got years of doing the right thing and that may be enough. But as somebody who works closely with admissions at my school you are right it is looked down upon. It's not that medical schools want to punish people, it's that physicians are already more likely to become addicted to substances and such addictions can lead to patient harm. Medical schools feel a responsibility to patients - it's not that they're judging the applicants.

I wish OP the best of luck and thing the work that's been done to date is fantastic - I'm am sure some adcom members will chime in and I hope they share positive views.

 

[LizzyM]

I can't recall ever seeing an application to medical school from someone with a felony -- the exception might have been someone who went to jail for vehicular manslaughter due to reckless driving (but not DUI) -- I don't recall if that was a felony.

I do know someone IRL who was caught with pot in his dorm room and who went on to do research on THC and had 3-4 other experiences related to drugs (anti-drug health ed in schools, etc). He had an otherwise decent application but had 3 unsuccessful cycles, IIRC. I suspect there were just too many reminders in his experience section of the IA (it wasn't even a criminal charge). I tell this story to say that putting a lot of effort into "clean and sober" service activities (more than what is being done for one's own recovery and 12th step), is not always a wise move.

 

[seeinghowitgoes]

Really was not expecting backlash and I think you completely misinterpreted every point in my post. I never stated everyone gets multiple felonies and joins AA, I never even mentioned AA. I'm claiming that a decent subset of applicants have smoked some weed, popped a pill, or drove after one too many beers. I personally know dozens of medical students currently that use drugs while enrolled in MS. At my most recent second look weekend, I saw multiple medical students hop into their cars after drinking at a bar for a couple hours, whether they were above or below the limit is up to debate.

I'm giving advice based on my experience in interviews, essays and applications as a recently accepted student who had to apply with alcohol related charges much less severe than OPs.

There's nothing disingenuous in OP demonstrating that he has grown and taken immense responsibility in his past experiences, considering that these experiences can and possibly will destroy his application cycle. This is not gaming the system. It is simply what OP will have to do to get accepted into medical school if that is what he wants. Do I agree with the process, no. But, I will guarantee that OP will have to go above and beyond to be given an honest chance. So yeah, he has to prove to society (and I don't know, maybe the ****ing admissions committee) that he has grown, learned, demonstrated a drastic change in his behavior, and is committed to helping others struggling in his situation.

I didn't mean my perspective to come off as backlash and apologize that it did - I simply have a different view on several points. Absolutely respect that your experiences led you to provide the insights you did, and mine lead me to feel differently.

 

[Lollygag]

Doesn't the issue stem further than just applying to medical school? I don't want to sound harsh, but even if OP got accepted, got licensed, getting hired could be a problem too. I can't find the thread but I remember seeing a post a long time ago about a PA who had a felony who got accepted and licensed but was unable to find a job because of the felony on his record. Id rather OP search for alternative careers than end up debt wise in a similar situation as a Caribbean IMG.

A felony is a whole other ball game compared to IA's, misdemeanors, DUI's

 

[RogueBanana]

Your ability to practice and prescribe meds other than z-paks is contingent on getting licensed by the DEA.

They tend to look down on felony records. They also tend to look down on drug violations.

Good luck man, I wish I had something more positive to say..

 

[Nietzsche's Barber]

A sad but true fact is that this is a competitive, unforgiving process. Even with an extraordinary application, there are other extraordinary applicants without felonies who will not have trouble securing licensure or employment down the road.

Anecdotally, I went to undergrad with a person who served time for a felony conviction. He applied to dental school 4 times without a single interview (stellar DAT, 3.9 GPA). However, he is now pursuing a PhD at a 'prestigious' institution in a science-related field. So, all hope is not lost.

Good luck and I commend you on your turnaround.

 

[medschool733]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the replies. I forgot to mention that since January of 2014 I have worked in the medical department of a drug and alcohol treatment center (doing med pass, facilitating dr appointments, and charting notes for physicians while in appointments) and this is where my aspirations to become a physician started. I know its not technically volunteer work (which i will most likely end up doing at some point) but I'm hoping it's something that works in my favor and I love doing it. I know I have a strong case but with a one year old son it's a lot harder to say "I'm just gonna give it a shot and hope it works out" because it's no longer just my life that it's affecting. I talked to the physicians at my work and they both encouraged me to go for it but some of the stories like the ones mentioned above make me hesitant (not saying that those stories aren't beneficial they're just the truth in what happens sometimes in these cases) Anyways, Im rambling, just wanted to thank you guys and provide some more info. Please keep the replies coming if there is anymore!

 

[LizzyM]

I just wanted to thank everyone for the replies. I forgot to mention that since January of 2014 I have worked in the medical department of a drug and alcohol treatment center (doing med pass, facilitating dr appointments, and charting notes for physicians while in appointments) and this is where my aspirations to become a physician started. I know its not technically volunteer work (which i will most likely end up doing at some point) but I'm hoping it's something that works in my favor and I love doing it. I know I have a strong case but with a one year old son it's a lot harder to say "I'm just gonna give it a shot and hope it works out" because it's no longer just my life that it's affecting. I talked to the physicians at my work and they both encouraged me to go for it but some of the stories like the ones mentioned above make me hesitant (not saying that those stories aren't beneficial they're just the truth in what happens sometimes in these cases) Anyways, Im rambling, just wanted to thank you guys and provide some more info. Please keep the replies coming if there is anymore!

Getting hired in a position of responsibility in a treatment center is huge in my book and would be taken into account.

I agree with @gonnif that you should apply to have your conviction "set aside" as it can only help.

 

[citykid92]

Idk what the answer is but I wish you the best man. Sucks how in this world one mistake when you're young can really screw you over for a long time. I worry that a felony may be a major barrier for admission and licensing even though it sounds like you've done a lot to redeem yourself.

 

[Goro]

Also agree with my learned colleagues. My own view is long periods of exemplary behavior, especially if in a position of responsibility are good things.

I can also tell you that if you don't apply, your rejection rate will be 100%.

Getting hired in a position of responsibility in a treatment center is huge in my book and would be taken into account.

I agree with @gonnif that you should apply to have your conviction "set aside" as it can only help.

 

[ace_inhibitor111]

I would be less worried about getting into medical school, and more worried about what happens after. Getting a DEA number and then getting licensed would probably be very tough. Pennsylvania, for example, is mandated to deny licensure to anyone with a felony related to a controlled substance. I have a friend who had a drug history on his medical record from 7 years ago and no criminal record and he was only given a probationary license, at least for a few years before getting a full license. I would do more research about this before applying to medical school and getting yourself into serious debt. Medical schools have no responsibility on your ability to get a license or a job.

 

[medschool733]

We dont have enough information to really understand the case, the circumstances around it, the reasons for the level of charging, the reasons for the punishment. Was the felony DUI due to accident, injury to others, simply being more that 0.12 over the limit, found a bong in back, the you pissed off the arresting officer or DA who decided to overcharge you, your lawyer was not effective. You didnt do prison time, but 4 months in local jail, presumably you got 6 months jail time and 3-5 years probation. Details here matter greatly. No reasonable opinion can be made without


In a AZ, setting aside a conviction is literally just that. It removes the judgement of guilt and you are removed from all penalties that may occur from such conviction. This would be as if you were convicted but then had the case overturned upon appeal. This would reasonably include not stating the conviction for purposes of AMCAS. However, without knowing or seeing how this would remain on a record, that would have be investigated how to best approach it.

Format Document
C. If the judge, justice of the peace or magistrate grants the application, the judge, justice of the peace or magistrate shall set aside the judgment of guilt, dismiss the accusations or information and order that the person be released from all penalties and disabilities resulting from the conviction

Thank you. I guess a was a little vague. The dui resulted in a felony conviction because my license was suspended at the time of the dui. It was actually my first offense ever. I was also given a public defender who didn't do anything fight for my case and said there was nothing he could do (which maybe there wasn't). I did end up doing 4 months in prison, not jail, due to Arizonas harsh dui laws. They have prisons specifically for dui offenders. And after that I did 2 years probation which I completed without a problem and paid off all my fines.

 

[medschool733]

From your punishment, it seems you got charged with aggravated DUI, which normally is reserved for those with multiple offenses. With your license previous suspended, you have a history that is not being shared. So lets start with your list of traffic offenses, even juvenile, and any other interactions you have had with police, courts or similar, in chronological order. Sorry for seeming blunt but, besides being a pushy New Yorker (youse gotta problem wit 'dat?), there is no way to advise you on what to do now and how to possibly position an application narrative for you.

PS: Felony DUI / Aggravated DUI: Arizona law considers a DUI as a Class 4 felony if:

• It is the person’s third DUI conviction within seven years
• The DUI occurred while the person’s privileges to drive are suspended, revoked, cancelled or refused

The minimum sentence for Class 4 felony or aggravated DUI includes:

• Minimum of 4 months in prison (maximum 3 years 9 months)

Yes it was an aggravated DUI. My license was suspended due to either an unpaid seatbelt or speeding ticket. When I took care of the ticket finally they had to issue me a suspended license where I was only allowed to drive to and from work/school. I was not going to or from either of those places when I got the DUI. When I said It was my first offense I guess I meant first pertinent offense (only thing besides standard traffic violations) that resulted in arrest. I don't think you're being pushy at all. You're just getting the information you need to provide an educated response which I appreciate!

 

[RogueBanana]

From your punishment, it seems you got charged with aggravated DUI, which normally is reserved for those with multiple offenses. With your license previous suspended, you have a history that is not being shared. So lets start with your list of traffic offenses, even juvenile, and any other interactions you have had with police, courts or similar, in chronological order. Sorry for seeming blunt but, besides being a pushy New Yorker (youse gotta problem wit 'dat?), there is no way to advise you on what to do now and how to possibly position an application narrative for you.

PS: Felony DUI / Aggravated DUI: Arizona law considers a DUI as a Class 4 felony if:

• It is the person’s third DUI conviction within seven years
• The DUI occurred while the person’s privileges to drive are suspended, revoked, cancelled or refused

The minimum sentence for Class 4 felony or aggravated DUI includes:

• Minimum of 4 months in prison (maximum 3 years 9 months)

Yes it was an aggravated DUI. My license was suspended due to either an unpaid seatbelt or speeding ticket. When I took care of the ticket finally they had to issue me a suspended license where I was only allowed to drive to and from work/school. I was not going to or from either of those places when I got the DUI. When I said It was my first offense I guess I meant first pertinent offense (only thing besides standard traffic violations) that resulted in arrest. I don't think you're being pushy at all. You're just getting the information you need to provide an educated response which I appreciate!

It's always 2 pages into the thread that these details seem to come out

 

[medschool733]

It's always 2 pages into the thread that these details seem to come out

It's always 2 pages into the thread that these details seem to come out

I'm not sure what you mean? I disclosed that I have been charged with two felonies which is my major worry. Everything prior to that was just your basic traffic violations so I didn't think it was pertinent. I was not trying to withhold information by any means. I just wasn't trying to muddle my initial post with information I didn't feel was pertinent. It came to light that that information was useful so I disclosed it. Does the fact that a minor traffic violation and an unpaid ticket resulted in the suspension of my license which is what made my DUI a felony instead of a misdemeanor change something in my case? (Not trying to be a jerk, I just really don't understand what that comment was insinuating)

 

[RogueBanana]

I'm not sure what you mean? I disclosed that I have been charged with two felonies which is my major worry. Everything prior to that was just your basic traffic violations so I didn't think it was pertinent. I was not trying to withhold information by any means. I just wasn't trying to muddle my initial post with information I didn't feel was pertinent. It came to light that that information was useful so I disclosed it. Does the fact that a minor traffic violation and an unpaid ticket resulted in the suspension of my license which is what made my DUI a felony instead of a misdemeanor change something in my case? (Not trying to be a jerk, I just really don't understand what that comment was insinuating)

I was insinuating that these kinds of details usually come out 2 pages into the thread.

Not trying to be rude, just remarking that small details that make a big difference come out after much ado in the thread.

 

[medschool733]

I was insinuating that these kinds of details usually come out 2 pages into the thread.

Not trying to be rude, just remarking that small details that make a big difference come out after much ado in the thread.

Hahaha! Fair enough.

 

[RogueBanana]

Its just typical how these things take a bit for all the details to come which is true anyplace. Dont take it personally. You are discussing a difficult subject and its not easy.

My concern as a application narrative, an adcom will ask why was he sentenced to 4 months in prison over a DUI? Oh, he has a suspended license? well why did he have a suspended license? So all the traffic violations will have bearing on this. Hence my request for details on them

It's truly a question and answer process until all the necessary details come out. I apologize if I came off as rude. Just remarking how a lot of posts here seem to follow this formula!

 

[medschool733]

Its just typical how these things take a bit for all the details to come which is true anyplace. Dont take it personally. You are discussing a difficult subject and its not easy.

My concern as a application narrative, an adcom will ask why was he sentenced to 4 months in prison over a DUI? Oh, he has a suspended license? well why did he have a suspended license? So all the traffic violations will have bearing on this. Hence my request for details on them

I did take it a bit out of context. That is my fault. I really appreciate your help. I am currently working on the paperwork to, hopefully, get my charges set aside.

 

[DokterMom]

Yes it was an aggravated DUI. My license was suspended due to either an unpaid seatbelt or speeding ticket. When I took care of the ticket finally they had to issue me a suspended license where I was only allowed to drive to and from work/school. I was not going to or from either of those places when I got the DUI. When I said It was my first offense I guess I meant first pertinent offense (only thing besides standard traffic violations) that resulted in arrest. I don't think you're being pushy at all. You're just getting the information you need to provide an educated response which I appreciate!

This added detail paints 19-year old you as someone who "couldn't get his stuff together" -- allowing your license to become suspended due to non-payment ticket(s), then violating the terms of your license suspension....

So your narrative starts off with "When I was 19, I was young and stupid and didn't take things seriously. I had to learn the hard way, but fortunately, I did learn. "

This is a fairly common start to the comeback narrative, and so long as you completely own the youthful stupidity, you are allowed to brag a bit about the turnaround. You will need the stuff to back it up with though -- Stellar recent grades, strong MCAT, and activities that show you are now a pillar of the community.

Best of luck to you --

 

[medschool733]

This added detail paints 19-year old you as someone who "couldn't get his stuff together" -- allowing your license to become suspended due to non-payment ticket(s), then violating the terms of your license suspension....

So your narrative starts off with "When I was 19, I was young and stupid and didn't take things seriously. I had to learn the hard way, but fortunately, I did learn. "

This is a fairly common start to the comeback narrative, and so long as you completely own the youthful stupidity, you are allowed to brag a bit about the turnaround. You will need the stuff to back it up with though -- Stellar recent grades, strong MCAT, and activities that show you are now a pillar of the community.

Best of luck to you --

Thank you. That is very helpful. Any recommendations on activities that show I am now a pillar of the community? Do you mean such things as volunteering for certain organizations?

 

[DokterMom]

I would think working with troubled or disadvantaged youth, youthful offenders, teens in alternative schools? -- Reaching out to people who are currently facing (or at risk of) the same types of troubles you experienced as a teen and helping them avoid the mistakes you made.

 

[Goro]

Thank you. That is very helpful. Any recommendations on activities that show I am now a pillar of the community? Do you mean such things as volunteering for certain organizations?

Another example is being a Big Brother/Sister. Service to others less fortunate than yourself is always good.

 

[medschool733]

Another example is being a Big Brother/Sister. Service to others less fortunate than yourself is always good.

Thanks, I tried to get set up with them about 3 years ago and they denied me because I was on probation/a felon. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

 

[Goro]

Thanks, I tried to get set up with them about 3 years ago and they denied me because I was on probation/a felon. Maybe I'll give it another shot.

Your local houses of worship will also be a good source of volunteering experiences.