Applying to MSTP with a master's

[nutate]

So...I have a tricky situation and was looking for some input regarding the best path forward. I was a PhD student in biology at a top school but ended up leaving with a master's because I did not pass my qual. This was due to political and logistical issues, not aptitude. I have good performance in my coursework and I will have a letter from my adviser and a supportive letter from the grad program director. However, I think the stigma of failure will cling to me no matter what, and mentioning drama will make me look like a problem student.

Even though I'm very upset by this turn of events, I want to continue my pursuit of becoming a physician-scientist. So, I intend to apply to medical schools in the coming cycle. I actually applied to MSTP programs a few years ago and got admitted to midtier programs. I had also applied in parallel to the top PhD programs in my field of interest and was admitted to those programs. I was so starstruck by the brand name PhD program that I went off to grad school, intending to get my MD afterwards.

In hindsight, that was obviously a terrible decision, but 22 year olds aren't known for good judgment. My reasoning was that an MD is an MD, but that a brand name PhD was a big deal (I now know a good training environment is waaaay more important). Anyway, I continued taking medically-oriented classes and maintained some clinical volunteering activities, so I am not making this career transition out of the blue.

My main questions are:
1) What (if anything) should I say about my grad school experience? On the one hand, I think that my experience makes me a low-risk PhD student, and I'm still eligible for some fellowships (F30). On the other hand, it will be easier for them to be unsympathetic.

2) Should I bother applying to any MD/PhD programs or just apply for MD admission and then apply internally? I stand no chance at top-ranked MSTP programs due to my history, but I'm thinking I might have a chance at low-ranked MSTP programs. Similarly, would my chances at MD-only admission at top research med schools be negatively affected?

Just to be clear, having interacted with lab heads that were MD/PhDs as well as MDs suggests that a PhD is not necessary to be a physician-scientist (even at the elite level). When push comes to shove, though, I think it's better to have it. From this forum, it seems protected research/training time is hard to come by, which makes the PhD more attractive. I was in a basic science lab environment, so I regard the 'second' PhD as an opportunity to focus on a specific clinical field. I am working on a first-author manuscript so I can demonstrate productivity, but I'm in no position to finish the high-impact work I was planning.

Sorry for the War & Peace-sized post!

edited for length/clarity

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[gutonc]

Don't bother with the PhD. Apply MD and do a research residency/fellowship afterward.

 

[URHere]

I am only a student, so take what I say with a grain of salt, but I think that essentially failing out of a PhD program (not passing the qual) has to be a significant red flag for future PhD admission.

Among students, faculty, and administrators there is the prevailing belief that it is difficult for competent students to fail out of graduate school, and that it only happens to those who do not belong there in the first place. Whatever your specific situation may be, people will wonder why you didn't switch labs, remediate your qualifying exam, or otherwise work out whatever the problem was. If you really wanted the PhD, why didn't you make sure that you finished your degree? Unless a significant amount of time has passed since you left the PhD program, I think this will be difficult to explain away.

I think you really need to be honest with yourself about whether or not you want a PhD (and why). On the one hand, you already have some training, which may make it easier to get by without a research degree. On the other hand, you probably don't have the same experience with presenting, publishing, and grant writing that a PhD graduate would have, and those are arguably the most important skills for your future career. But…you could acquire those skills during a fellowship as well.

Honestly, I think you'll have more luck with the MD-only path, but if you do decide to apply MD/PhD, do some soul searching and then be as honest and convincing as possible. Good luck.

 

[URHere]

Double post

 

[nutate]

URHere, ur remarks are fair, and I can't answer them without going into specific detail--which is the same thing I expect would happen in an interview.

I think MD programs are probably the way to go.

 

[peanutcashew]

SDNers please feel free to correct me/chime in if I'm wrong.

From all of the MSTP PDs I've met, it seems that one of the big concerns is that people will actually finish the PhD and in a reasonable amount of time. PDs are not too worried that you will finish the MD, just that you do well. Ultimately they want you to be a well rounded physician scientist (80/20, 70/30 or what not). I think leaving a PhD program with a masters degree for any reason will be a big concern/red flag for them. Unless it was for family/personal/health reasons, you will definitely be asked about it. That being said, a few programs may decide to take the "risk" but many very well may not. A program will definitely not want to chance it if there is a possibility of someone leaving PhD during MSTP.

Fencer or Maebea may be good PDs to ask to see what they think.

 

[Fencer]

Agree with "nacic"...

 

[Maebea]

Agree with "nacic"...

Agree. Programs are looking for sure bets, and the fact that you left a grad program at a top tier institution would raise question. As others have said, you do not need the PhD to be a physician scientist. You will have a research MA from a good school and a first-author paper; couple that with some research in med school and you should have a reasonable shot at an academic career.

 

[smithers12]

Continuity in your research experiences is enormously important. I'm actually impressed you're still considering pursuing the PhD - most students in your position would be jaded just from the thought of it (especially after investing 2-3+ years without the degree to show for it).

The re-application may work against you too. With good numbers, a carefully worded PS and letters from your advisors, anything is possible, but at face value, it's a red flag.

 

[Neuronix]

I agree that it's laudable you're still thinking about research even after all that.

I also agree that you will likely need to be in an MD program at this point. It's unlikely an MD/PhD program is going to take a chance on you. I wouldn't even recommend doing the program at this point. If your MS experience was as significant as you say, the benefit of the PhD training for you will not be worth it.

When you apply to MD programs remember, they look at the MS as just another extracurricular. In other words, you will still need the shadowing/volunteering that the other applicants will have. Pay attention to what the MD aspirants are saying over in pre-allo, and know you're competing with them.

As much as possible, I would not mention that you were trying for a PhD. Try to play it off like you intended on a master's the whole time and you want to be a physician now. Just say you're still interested in pursuing research in the future. Even for MD programs, PhD dropouts are a bit of a red flag. There is a lot of political and logistical issues in the medical training pathway, and the worry is going to be that it's going to become a problem again in the future.

I'm not saying to avoid talking about it, but don't offer this stuff on personal statements or in interviews unless asked. You did a master's program and want to go to med school now. Good luck.