Approaching Pre-Med Courses and Med School Application in WA vs TX

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skeptastic

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Hey everyone. I've got a situation that I'm finding tough to iron out on my own and am hoping for some insight from forum members and especially adcoms, if at all possible.

I currently live in Washington, where we have two MD schools and one DO school. My wife and I both have family in Texas and are seriously considering moving to Dallas next year, before I start taking prerequisite courses. I've always wanted to move to Texas, and the prospect of lower tuition for both prerequisites and medical school doesn't hurt whatsoever. This is one of the only other locations besides Washington state that we would settle down and make our permanent residence, even if I didn't get in to medical school, so we're very serious about the move. It wouldn't be temporary if things went well during the application cycle. Even if we got residency elsewhere, we'd want to come back to Texas if we got into medical school there.

My question is, do you think someone who has a 2.9 cGPA/3.3 sGPA with solid upward trend (3.82 last 72.5 credits), does well on the MCAT, has good ECs and is URM would be better off applying to Texas schools as a Texas resident, or Washington schools as a Washington resident?

In Washington, you have the UW with a bit more leniency GPA-wise than the Texas MD schools, but that also shares its admission slots with four other states. You also have WSU, which is just about to launch its new medical school. Lastly, you have one DO School in PNWU, with regional bias and no minimum GPA auto-screen.

In Texas, you have a slew of MD schools, but they all have higher 10th percentile GPA stats. You have one (maybe two?) DO school, with no auto-screen for a minimum GPA. You also have a very inexpensive SMP program at UNTHSC, should I be rejected first cycle and need to strengthen my application before reapplying.

It seems like Texas would give one better odds of admission, but I worry about how flexible they are with GPA vs upward trend vs MCAT vs URM status, etc. It's tough not knowing how to approach my path, given my low GPA, non-trad status, how different schools treat URMs and so forth. The cost of exhausting every avenue possible to have the best shot at medical school admission is extremely lower in Texas, but if my odds are worse there with my stats, it may not make sense. 10 to 11 schools in TX vs 3 in WA is nothing to be taken lightly though.

And of course, if none of these schools accepted me and I had to go to a DO in another state, I'd be more than happy and honored to attend, which makes Texas seem even more like a solid location, because I won't have spent buckets of money in preparation for application to medical school (prerequisites, possible SMP/Post-Bacc).

If it helps at all, I am an African-American male. Not at all sure how much this plays into the way various schools see my stats, but I've always assumed not much at all, then read about this possibly assisting slightly, depending on the overall picture, school applied to, etc. Just trying to provide as much information in order to get as much help as possible.

Any thoughts?


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Have you had a chance to look at the MSAR stats with the 10-90th percentile for the TX schools versus the WA schools? I know you're thinking the WA stats are a bit more in your favor, but I would think that having over 10 schools required to take 90% of their student body from in-state would weigh more in favor of TX. I actually moved to TX to take advantage of the significantly lower tuition and maximize school chances.
If your plan is to eventually move and settle in Texas, it would be a good idea for residency slots and the like to move now so you'll be settled in before the grind of medical school starts. This is just my opinion though, and you'll need to do what fits you and your family the best.
 
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Move away from the rain and come here. Your whole post screams Texas.
 
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It seems that even, in the absence of med school plans, you and your wife would be drawn to Texas. I imagine you'd be happy in Texas even if you abandoned med school plans altogether. However, you should research some of the residency requirements of the schools you're planning to attend--you may have to spend a year as a Texas resident w/o taking any classes before qualifying for in-state tuition.
 
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Thank you all for your replies. I've researched TX residency requirements and would definitely be working for 12 months before diving into any coursework. We'd also register to vote, get driver's licenses and completely establish domicile in TX.

@silleme Your thoughts about the 10the percentile GPA/MCAT scores vs number of schools is the one thing I've really been hung up on. I have a copy of the MSAR and one of my only reservations about moving to Texas was the 10th percentile stats. Speaking to goro, he also seems to lean toward Texas, so that's reassuring as well.

Thanks again!


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One other thing for you to consider...if any of your grades are over 10 years old you can do grade forgiveness in TX, so that might be an option. If you do a search on here you'll find more about it.
 
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Excellent idea! I remember reading about their forgiveness policy months ago, but will need to get a refresher on it. If I'm not mistaken, you have to erase the entire undergrad load, so you start over, but I'm not certain. Thanks for the reminder. Going to look into it now.


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That program would work very well. The only concern then would be the cost of attending, since I've exhausted undergrad student loans and would have to take 90 credits at a minimum. I also don't understand what would happen if you applied OOS, since you've erased your academic record from 10 years ago.

Time to do more research and make some calls.


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Fresh Start only applies to schools using the TMDSAS, so none outside of Texas would acknowledge it. I wouldn't be able to help you with figuring out the cost of attending school, but the individual schools in TX may be able to point you in the right direction. If you re-start using a community college, it should make your journey a whole lot cheaper.

I know the link's from 2013, but it may help with federal student loan information: https://www.usnews.com/education/be...earn-how-to-pay-for-a-second-bachelors-degree
 
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Thanks for your help, I really appreciate it. Gonna check out this link.


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Dak- I am also in Washington and the plethora of schools in Texas is is envy-inducing for those of us here.

Here are my feelings: UW is a different animal. Extremely competitive, it's low LizzyM score (~68) belies the fact that it is so cuttroat. It really favors the non-cookie cutter (4.0/40) student. In fact, I think they have a bias against high stat students and instead focus on mission. BUT - all those are less consequence when I read that you are AA. That makes all of those parameters different. WSU is an unknown- all I know is that they favor in-state over all else. PNW is also something I don't know much about.

That being said, Texas favors high GPAs. Adding to that, Texas applicants are not given much success outside of Texas normally because adcoms believe (likely correctly) that Texas residents won't leave Texas because of the cheap Texas tuition. But, again as a URM, none of that may apply to you. You might get a lot of interest outside of Texas by virtue of your URM status and HBCU are also a possibility for you.

I would suggest calling UW and WSU and asking to meet with an admissions department faculty member.

The only thing that might be a deciding factor is whether you want to move to Texas and then maybe have to move again for med school if you don't get in a Texas school. I would bet that you won't need an SMP because of your strong upward trend, assuming an MCAT of more than 500. Good luck.

Hey everyone. I've got a situation that I'm finding tough to iron out on my own and am hoping for some insight from forum members and especially adcoms, if at all possible.

I currently live in Washington, where we have two MD schools and one DO school. My wife and I both have family in Texas and are seriously considering moving to Dallas next year, before I start taking prerequisite courses. I've always wanted to move to Texas, and the prospect of lower tuition for both prerequisites and medical school doesn't hurt whatsoever. This is one of the only other locations besides Washington state that we would settle down and make our permanent residence, even if I didn't get in to medical school, so we're very serious about the move. It wouldn't be temporary if things went well during the application cycle. Even if we got residency elsewhere, we'd want to come back to Texas if we got into medical school there.

My question is, do you think someone who has a 2.9 cGPA/3.3 sGPA with solid upward trend (3.82 last 72.5 credits), does well on the MCAT, has good ECs and is URM would be better off applying to Texas schools as a Texas resident, or Washington schools as a Washington resident?

In Washington, you have the UW with a bit more leniency GPA-wise than the Texas MD schools, but that also shares its admission slots with four other states. You also have WSU, which is just about to launch its new medical school. Lastly, you have one DO School in PNWU, with regional bias and no minimum GPA auto-screen.

In Texas, you have a slew of MD schools, but they all have higher 10th percentile GPA stats. You have one (maybe two?) DO school, with no auto-screen for a minimum GPA. You also have a very inexpensive SMP program at UNTHSC, should I be rejected first cycle and need to strengthen my application before reapplying.

It seems like Texas would give one better odds of admission, but I worry about how flexible they are with GPA vs upward trend vs MCAT vs URM status, etc. It's tough not knowing how to approach my path, given my low GPA, non-trad status, how different schools treat URMs and so forth. The cost of exhausting every avenue possible to have the best shot at medical school admission is extremely lower in Texas, but if my odds are worse there with my stats, it may not make sense. 10 to 11 schools in TX vs 3 in WA is nothing to be taken lightly though.

And of course, if none of these schools accepted me and I had to go to a DO in another state, I'd be more than happy and honored to attend, which makes Texas seem even more like a solid location, because I won't have spent buckets of money in preparation for application to medical school (prerequisites, possible SMP/Post-Bacc).

If it helps at all, I am an African-American male. Not at all sure how much this plays into the way various schools see my stats, but I've always assumed not much at all, then read about this possibly assisting slightly, depending on the overall picture, school applied to, etc. Just trying to provide as much information in order to get as much help as possible.

Any thoughts?


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Dak- I am also in Washington and the plethora of schools in Texas is is envy-inducing for those of us here.

Here are my feelings: UW is a different animal. Extremely competitive, it's low LizzyM score (~68) belies the fact that it is so cuttroat. It really favors the non-cookie cutter (4.0/40) student. In fact, I think they have a bias against high stat students and instead focus on mission. BUT - all those are less consequence when I read that you are AA. That makes all of those parameters different. WSU is an unknown- all I know is that they favor in-state over all else. PNW is also something I don't know much about.

That being said, Texas favors high GPAs. Adding to that, Texas applicants are not given much success outside of Texas normally because adcoms believe (likely correctly) that Texas residents won't leave Texas because of the cheap Texas tuition. But, again as a URM, none of that may apply to you. You might get a lot of interest outside of Texas by virtue of your URM status and HBCU are also a possibility for you.

I would suggest calling UW and WSU and asking to meet with an admissions department faculty member.

The only thing that might be a deciding factor is whether you want to move to Texas and then maybe have to move again for med school if you don't get in a Texas school. I would bet that you won't need an SMP because of your strong upward trend, assuming an MCAT of more than 500. Good luck.

You raise very valid points. I'll definitely have to contact Wazzu and UW to see what their perception of someone with my stats is. It's so tough to put all of your eggs in 2-3 schools, especially with one having very tough admission standards. UW also seems to send acceptances very late in the cycle, so if you're really banking on them it would be difficult to wait and ignore other acceptances. This may not apply to me with my low stats, but it seems like a very awkward position to be put in. If I were here, I'd be drooling over an opportunity to attend UW, but it frightens me to put so much stock into one school, when I am so open to any of the Texas schools.

The other thing is, I'd be paying way more to take prerequisites in this state and because I can't find any schools with flexible schedules, I'm forced to take online classes. This severely limits where o can apply OOS, thus putting even more stock into a local acceptance. Howard, as an example, who would probably love me, doesn't accept online courses. It would be insane to apply to medical school as an AA male and have no chance at getting into the one school that would be a solid fallback. This is all assuming MD schools even like me, of course.

There is a band of community colleges in Dallas that have an amazing schedule of courses for al of the prerequisites needed. I've seen courses that start as early as 6:30am, with the same course also having a section starting at 7:30pm. We're talking rows and rows of available sections at various times, which would allow me to work and it have to take one online class. This is also a major reason that Dallas attracts the heck out of me in general, on top of the fact that we like Dallas as a location outside of the medical school journey.

As I type this, it becomes clear where I'm leaning. It's almost a no-brainer. It does worry me that Texas schools might hate my GPA regardless of URM status, but we are certainly willing to move again to attend medical school, as that is the end goal. I think we have a better chance at paying for courses, avoiding online courses and increasing our odds of admission both IS and OOS if we move to Texas. Honestly, the biggest hurdle here in Washington is finding courses that I can take in person that fit with any work schedule. And if we decided I would not work and take on prerequisites full-time, it is so much more expensive to live here that we couldn't do it on just my wife's income. We could definitely do it in Texas.

I would happily live, attend school, complete residency and work as an attending in both Washington and Texas equally, but the advantage seems to swing in Texas' direction on a major way and we cannot ignore that. The only thing that would keep us here is we could afford to take courses in person and live off of my wife's income alone, thus increasing the odds of getting accepted to more OOS schools, should WA schools not accept me for some reason. Seems risky, more expensive and overall a lot more stressful for a non-trad, his wife and three children.

Even if I didn't get into any Texas schools, it seems like Texas may still be the way forward. What I need to do now is look at my copy of MSAR again and see what OOS schools will accept these community college prerequisites. There is the issue you raise, however, of OOS schools possibly not accepting me due to TX residency. That would suck. So many factors to weigh and I almost forgot about that one.

It's crazy planning out this journey, but I know it will be worth it in the end. Thank you for your time and insight. It's sincerely appreciated.


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I've read a couple of threads on SDN that mention Texas and Washington as being states that don't look at AA makes with any preference. Anyone know anything about this? My GPA is not very good at all, so it worries me a bit to move to Texas and have those extra doubts.


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I've read a couple of threads on SDN that mention Texas and Washington as being states that don't look at AA makes with any preference. Anyone know anything about this? My GPA is not very good at all, so it worries me a bit to move to Texas and have those extra doubts.


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That is not at all true.
You can stay in either state if you take the courses necessary to apply to the HBCU's.
 
Thanks for your reply gyngyn. Texas would work better for being able to apply to OOS schools, HBCUs, etc, because 1. The availability of course sections at every time of the day means I could work and attend classes, and 2. If I choose to not work and attend school full-time, the much lower cost of living allows for this in TX. I'm just worried about TX seemingly focusing much more on GPA, with mine being so low, even with the great upward trend. If I move there, I'd like to know I have somewhat of a shot. UW may like me a bit more, but it's one school vs like 11 in Texas.

If I stay in WA, I can't stop working and attend full-time, nor can I take classes in person, due to the terrible availability of course sections for all prerequisites. I have literally found one course that has a section at a time that I might be able to fit around my work schedule. In Texas, I've seen classes with sections running from 6:30am start times to 7:30pm start times. Not being able to take classes in person in WA means no WSU, no Morehouse and no Howard since none of these schools accept online courses.

What a predicament, haha.




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Thanks for your reply gyngyn. Texas would work better for being able to apply to OOS schools, HBCUs, etc, because 1. The availability of course sections at every time of the day means I could work and attend classes, and 2. If I choose to not work and attend school full-time, the much lower cost of living allows for this in TX. I'm just worried about TX seemingly focusing much more on GPA, with mine being so low, even with the great upward trend. If I move there, I'd like to know I have somewhat of a shot. UW may like me a bit more, but it's one school vs like 11 in Texas.

If I stay in WA, I can't stop working and attend full-time, nor can I take classes in person, due to the terrible availability of course sections for all prerequisites. I have literally found one course that has a section at a time that I might be able to fit around my work schedule. In Texas, I've seen classes with sections running from 6:30am start times to 7:30pm start times. Not being able to take classes in person in WA means no WSU, no Morehouse and no Howard since none of these schools accept online courses.

What a predicament, haha.




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With the bolded above, I think that moving to Texas is the better choice. Even if your GPA is lower than Texas wants, it most likely will be offset by your URM status (assuming an acceptable MCAT score).
 
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With the bolded above, I think that moving to Texas is the better choice. Even if your GPA is lower than Texas wants, it most likely will be offset by your URM status (assuming an acceptable MCAT score).

Thanks for further insight. I've also been discussing this in depth with @Goro in a private conversation and he seems to agree this is the best move. This is what we're going to do.

Thank you all for your help. It means a ton.


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Thanks for further insight. I've also been discussing this in depth with @Goro in a private conversation and he seems to agree this is the best move. This is what we're going to do.

Thank you all for your help. It means a ton.


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Good Luck!
 
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Update:

We've been reconsidering the idea of staying in WA and rolling the dice on the three medical schools here, just to keep options open and really think this entire process through carefully. This, having previously decided 100% on a move to TX. We've still been mostly leaning towards TX, but are just ironing out the final details in order to ensure we are making the best decision.

So then yesterday I spontaneously decided to renew my subscription to US News and was taken aback when I realized that acceptance data for medical schools was included as data, as opposed to just matriculant data. I'd been looking for this data everywhere but hadn't visited US News since I first started considering medical school last March.

WHOA!

Precise data on Univ of Washington is hard to determine since they include applicants from the four regional states outside of Washington in their in-state numbers, but it appears as though they accept roughly 38% of applicants from the state of Washingon who interview, with 31% of those who interview matriculating. This makes UW a tough choice in general, as those who get in typically attend, increasing the chances of being waitlisted. UW is also apparently notorious for offering acceptances VERY late in the cycle, offering further evidence that they wait to get the top dogs enrolled before grabbing folks off of the waitlist. They also have no early decision program, so folks just have to wait and trust if that is the school they've put most of their eggs into. Wazzu has no data, for obvious reasons and PNWU data is difficult to find as well, though I am sure the numbers are pretty favorable for in-state applicants.

On the other hand, there are several Texas schools that accept 45% to 71% of those who interview, with a MUCH lower percentage choosing to matriculate (19% to 30%, respectively). This means an acceptance offers a much higher chance at actually getting in, since such a smaller number of those accepted attend. This is likely due to the sheer number of Texas schools applicants have to choose from if accepted to multiple schools, along with the fact that many in-state applicants surely end up getting into more highly preferred schools OOS and turning down the in-state offers.

The short version is, Texas definitely seems like the much more intelligent choice. In fact, the only thing UW has over the Texas schools is that a much higher percentage of in-state applicants get interviews (47% UW vs around 20%-27% TX schools). Still, even having received an interview invitation, it's slim pickings getting in since UW does not over-accept. Also, Texas schools have over triple the number of applicants. This could mean many applicants are either vastly underqualified, or the odds of getting an interview are truly more difficult.

It was just really cool to be able to compare acceptance data vs matriculant data. We'll discuss these new findings a bit this week, but it looks like Texas is the way forward. If Washington had more medical schools to go along with their regional bias it would be a much more difficult decision, but it just doesn't make sense to stay here and pursue a career in medicine.
 
I think your analysis of Texas is spot on from what I've read here over the years. The UNTHSC/TCU medschool will open for applications in 2018, so you can add a 3rd school to the DFW area.
 
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I think your analysis of Texas is spot on from what I've read here over the years. The UNTHSC/TCU medschool will open for applications in 2018, so you can add a 3rd school to the DFW area.

It's definitely good to hear that what I've surmised rings true to someone who lives in Texas and has gone through the process. This is, of course, assuming that you attended medical school in Texas and don't just live there now haha! The new format of SDN makes it difficult to tell who is at what stage of the process.

I would love to attend medical school right in the DFW area, get into a residency program in the area and practice there. The dream portion of this journey for us is to get lucky enough to be able to stay in one location throughout the process. Better work on getting into medical school first hahaha!!!
 
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Those interview to matriculant percentages aren't apples to apples. UW interviews more people, so of course they accept less. Wouldn't you rather have better odds of getting an II? I know I would.
 
UW actually interviews far less people than any of the Texas schools. They just have less in-state applicants. Last year, UW interviewed 452 applicants. Baylor interviewed the least number of applicants of all Texas schools and they interviewed 508. The other Texas schools interviewed between 679 and 941 applicants each.

Because you are absolutely right in that I'd definitely prefer to get an II, TX slaughters WA in that department, on top of having 13 schools vs 3 in WA.


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UW interviewed 816 last year, according to MSAR. 452 IS, 364 OOS. of course, the "OOS" II's were the other WWAMI states. class size of 270.
Baylor had 847 for 183 seats.

However none of that matters as much as mission. UW clearly selects who they want regardless of mcat. look at their range. Whereas baylor's 10th percentile is a 510, and median is a 90th percentile score. So your decision should be, "am I what UW is looking for"? if the answer is yes, apply as a WA resident! if the answer is no, then i'd go play the stats game in TX.
 
Oh indeed. I was only looking at in-state numbers. I would be in-state for either WA or TX. When you look at in-state only, acceptances and interviews are all much higher for TX schools. Matriculants numbers are about the same.

Good point about the mission as well. I do love what UW stands for and the fact that they appear to be more lenient in the MCAT/GPA department. The troubling thing is the number of AA students who matriculate. There are many more who matriculate at every TX school, whereas it is a low number for UW. I haven't looked at the exact numbers in some months, but I recall it being surprisingly low for UW, given their mission.

As an AA male, it appears as though I may be what almost any school is looking for, should I fit the bill as a total package. AA males aren't just missing as far as matriculation, we don't even freaking apply! It's crazy.

I appreciate your input for sure!


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If you apply to non-tx schools from tx, I imagine the AA status could be kneecapped by the Texas bias. Whereas if you apply from WA, you won't be fighting uphill.

WA has lower AA stats becasue its the PNW. Less in the applicant demographics=less in the matriculant demographics, especially when they're so strict with IS/WWAMI. Those few OOS numbers must be either md/phd's or stellar URM apps.
 
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I think Texas is the way to go. But if I looked at the tables correctly, almost 100% of the AA applicants to the UW got in. There just aren't very many.

I think overall Texas has better odd for you although Washington might be a close second.
 
I think Texas is the way to go. But if I looked at the tables correctly, almost 100% of the AA applicants to the UW got in. There just aren't very many.

I think overall Texas has better odd for you although Washington might be a close second.

Do you mind linking me to the table you were looking at? I suck at finding these right tables, haha. I know I've seen it before but I have so many dang bookmarks that everything is now lost among everything else. I'm also gonna go ahead and search for that table myself, in case you looked at it a while back and don't recall which one it is.

Thanks for the insight.
 
If you apply to non-tx schools from tx, I imagine the AA status could be kneecapped by the Texas bias. Whereas if you apply from WA, you won't be fighting uphill.

WA has lower AA stats becasue its the PNW. Less in the applicant demographics=less in the matriculant demographics, especially when they're so strict with IS/WWAMI. Those few OOS numbers must be either md/phd's or stellar URM apps.

You're on to something here. Check out these two MSAR tables.

https://www.aamc.org/download/321478/data/factstablea11.pdf

https://www.aamc.org/download/321476/data/factstablea10.pdf

Applicants and Matriculants to U.S. Medical Schools by Race/Ethnicity and State of Legal Residence, 2016-2017

Take a look at the stats for WA and TX. Looks like around 29% of TX residents who are AA and apply get into a medical school, while around 56% of WA residents who are AA and apply get into a medical school. Very, very interesting. I wonder if this has to do with the competitiveness of TX schools and the increased difficulty of getting in OOS when you are a TX resident, as you mentioned.

What's interesting is that when you look at Asian and White applicants/matriculants in WA/TX, you get the opposite results. Their chances of acceptance increase if a resident of TX and decrease if a resident of WA. This does make me think that there is bias against TX AA applicants who apply OOS since there is TX bias when applying IS. It's just odd that the opposite is true for Asian and White applicants who are TX residents applying both IS and OOS.

Any thoughts?
 
Here's what we know for a fact. UW reviews applicants in depth. They're one of the best schools in the country and have one of the lowest median MCATS. Why? becasue they're picking the people they want, not the scores they want.
We also know that your GPA isn't so hot. So would you rather your numbers are looked at, in depth by a school who does that for everyone, but (probably) especially does that for AA applicants? Or would by a school that says they do such things, but who's numbers reflect standard industry practices.
Be a unicorn in a big pond, rather than a medium fish in big pond. Apply IS for UW. You'll probably get in. If not, you have all the other schools that want to hit their diversity goals. You may not be on their radar if you're a coming from TX.

The only caveat I have is money. texas schools are 17k a year. I dunno what your financial situation is, but that's a life changing difference in debt.
 
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Gonna change my recommendation based on this strong post. Texas favors high GPA peeps. And your MCAT is an unknown but UW definitely doesn't favor high MCAT scores.

Here's what we know for a fact. UW reviews applicants in depth. They're one of the best schools in the country and have one of the lowest median MCATS. Why? becasue they're picking the people they want, not the scores they want.
We also know that your GPA isn't so hot. So would you rather your numbers are looked at, in depth by a school who does that for everyone, but (probably) especially does that for AA applicants? Or would by a school that says they do such things, but who's numbers reflect standard industry practices.
Be a unicorn in a big pond, rather than a medium fish in big pond. Apply IS for UW. You'll probably get in. If not, you have all the other schools that want to hit their diversity goals. You may not be on their radar if you're a coming from TX.

The only caveat I have is money. texas schools are 17k a year. I dunno what your financial situation is, but that's a life changing difference in debt.
 
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You guys have really come through with some amazing insight and information. I'm gonna ponder all of this for a little while, make a decision and just go with it. I'd love to pay lower tuition, be in hot weather and have a greater chance at in-state residencies but I'd much rather get into medical school in the first place. I see a case for both locations, so I've got some thinking to do.
 
I think we're relying too much on numbers and OP being AA. Yes, it'll be nice to apply above the median GPA/MCAT for schools, but that's not the case for all of us. Luckily there are other things on the application. I rather take my chances at more schools in Texas.
 
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I think we're relying too much on numbers and OP being AA. Yes, it'll be nice to apply above the median GPA/MCAT for schools, but that's not the case for all of us. Luckily there are other things on the application. I rather take my chances at more schools in Texas.

It's hard to ignore the abundance of schools in TX, among other things. They do have schools with high 10th percentile GPA and MCAT scores but they also have several with scores much closer to and/or lower than UW. TX also has a very inexpensive SMP (compared to others) should it come down to that.

UW is just one school. That's the tough part. WSU may end up having an admissions process similar to UW's but we won't know for some time. I can't seem to find much information about the quality of PNWU, though they do interview and accept the highest percentage of applicants out of all schools in both TX and WA.

On one hand it seems like TX offers much more opportunity and on the other I kind of wonder if UW is less about the numbers to the extent that they are truly most likely to give me a shot.


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I think Texas is the way to go. But if I looked at the tables correctly, almost 100% of the AA applicants to the UW got in. There just aren't very many.

The following figures are all for 2016-2017.

It looks like 19/34 applicants in Washington state matriculated to a medical school. Unsure how many were accepted. 10 AA applicants matriculated to UW, not counting any who may fit in the "other" category.

Around 37 to 40% of applicants in a given state matriculated to a medical school. Around the same percentage of AA applicants matriculated in most states. In Texas, 29% of AA applicants matriculated (128/446). In Washington, 56% of AA applicants matriculated (19/34).

I wonder how many of the 19 Washington residents who are AA matriculated to schools outside of Washington. Maybe some fit in the "other" category and of course some could have identified as more than one ethnicity, thus fitting into other categories.

Overall, it does seem like UW may be more AA-friendly, which does go along with their mission. There simply aren't a lot of AA applicants from the state of WA.
 
The only caveat I would say is that the sample set for Washington is so small that unless you know the stats for that sample set it's hard to make a determination about if they are actually more AA friendly or if the small AA applicant pool was simply stronger (better grades, better MCAT's). There are a lot of variables that could mask the true meaning of those stats, so I would dig a little deeper if possible and find out.
 
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The only caveat I would say is that the sample set for Washington is so small that unless you know the stats for that sample set it's hard to make a determination about if they are actually more AA friendly or if the small AA applicant pool was simply stronger (better grades, better MCAT's). There are a lot of variables that could mask the true meaning of those stats, so I would dig a little deeper if possible and find out.

You're so right! I actually emailed AAMC a few days ago requesting more detailed data. I'm not sure if I'll get what I'm looking for, but I figured it was worth a try. I agree that the sample size is so much smaller in Washington that one can't feel overly confident about the high matriculation percentage.

In the end, as you and I Have been discussing, the easiest way to avoid all of the doubt and stress of relying on URM status and upward trend is to invoke AFS and knock it out of the park.
 
You're so right! I actually emailed AAMC a few days ago requesting more detailed data. I'm not sure if I'll get what I'm looking for, but I figured it was worth a try. I agree that the sample size is so much smaller in Washington that one can't feel overly confident about the high matriculation percentage.

In the end, as you and I Have been discussing, the easiest way to avoid all of the doubt and stress of relying on URM status and upward trend is to invoke AFS and knock it out of the park.

Texas admissions, to me, is quite strange.
People like to say that we are a lucky state but that is only if you have the stats to match. We're mainly "lucky" due to the number of medical schools we have and the mandatory 90% in state acceptance requirement. IMO, a lot of that luck is canceled out when you look at the number of applicants in Texas vs the number of seats. Out of 4310 in state Texas applicants only 1590 matriculated to a TMDSAS school. This is about 37%. This not include Baylor, which has about 75% in state vs 25% out of state matriculants. This also doesn't include the very few Texan residents who decide to matriculate out of state (<5%). Both the stats from Baylor and the Texans who decide to go out of state aren't significant and don't change the percentages by much.

As someone stated above, Texas schools like high GPAs. If you look past the median GPAs and focus on the 10th and 90th percentiles, this is even more evident. For instance UTMB has a 10th percentile GPA of ~3.7 with many of the other schools in thu a state not going below a 3.6 for 10th percentile. This itself explains why 29% of AA applicants matriculate in Texas.

If your stats situation was reversed, I'd say your chances would be better (high GPA, lower MCAT) as an AA URM.

For example, 3.7 500 AA will get more love than 3.3 505 in Texas in my opinion, of course assuming all other aspects are equal. This is all speculation and assumptions I am making based on the statistics and trends of Texas medical school admissions (retrieved from data).
 
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Texas admissions, to me, is quite strange.
People like to say that we are a lucky state but that is only if you have the stats to match. We're mainly "lucky" due to the number of medical schools we have and the mandatory 90% in state acceptance requirement. IMO, a lot of that luck is canceled out when you look at the number of applicants in Texas vs the number of seats. Out of 4310 in state Texas applicants only 1590 matriculated to a TMDSAS school. This is about 37%. This not include Baylor, which has about 75% in state vs 25% out of state matriculants. This also doesn't include the very few Texan residents who decide to matriculate out of state (<5%). Both the stats from Baylor and the Texans who decide to go out of state aren't significant and don't change the percentages by much.

As someone stated above, Texas schools like high GPAs. If you look past the median GPAs and focus on the 10th and 90th percentiles, this is even more evident. For instance UTMB has a 10th percentile GPA of ~3.7 with many of the other schools in thu a state not going below a 3.6 for 10th percentile. This itself explains why 29% of AA applicants matriculate in Texas.

If your stats situation was reversed, I'd say your chances would be better (high GPA, lower MCAT) as an AA URM.

For example, 3.7 500 AA will get more love than 3.3 505 in Texas in my opinion, of course assuming all other aspects are equal. This is all speculation and assumptions I am making based on the statistics and trends of Texas medical school admissions (retrieved from data).

I absolutely agree that Texas seems to favor high-stats applicants. You don't just get in because they have so many schools, for sure. The tough thing in WA is that only 144 matriculated to UW out of 952 IS applicants. That's 15%. There is WSU now, but no stats on that school just yet. If I had decent stats, UW would make more sense, simply because they definitely don't favor super high stats. Because I started undergrad with such low numbers, there is no way to recover GPA-wise and I instead would be relying on upward trend, MCAT and the hope that these few schools would be enough, since the wife doesn't want to move to HBCU locations.

A fresh start in TX would easily get my GPA into the territory that TX desires, as I've never struggled academically until I began college (college athletics, young/dumb, etc). Once I let go of sports, my GPA skyrocketed back to the levels I was used to. I wouldn't be shooting for TX with the hope of an upward trend getting me in. I'd be invoking Academic Fresh Start and aiming for a stellar academic record when applying through TMDSAS. Because I need to complete all of the science prerequisites, my timeline only increases by two years when starting over, versus just doing the prerequisites in a post-bacc.

You're so right about Texas' love of high stats. I'm just not sure that Washington's love of the "whole applicant" will outweigh the vast number of schools in Texas. That's mostly because of the lack of schools in WA and my low GPA versus the plethora of schools in TX and the opportunity to earn a new and solid GPA.


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Almost three months have passed and we are very close to making a final decision. At this point, invoking AFS and applying to TX medical schools as a resident of the state is the plan. We did have one other idea that might prove to be interesting.

How would TMDSAS schools treat an applicant who previously applied to AMCAS medical schools? Would they even know? Might it hinder one's chances if they were to apply to AMCAS schools, be rejected and then apply to TMDSAS schools?

The idea is to complete the prerequisites necessary to apply to UWSOM and WSU's medical school first. If I get in, we stay put. This idea came to fruition due to my wife getting a job as a certified teacher at a local high school, and us realizing that the surplus in pay might counterbalance the savings in medical school costs for a TX student. We also looked at both states' pension setup for teachers, benefits, the fact that she already has a job here, the concept of living 30 minutes from UWSOM (much more affordable), and so forth. Our thought was that if we were to be rejected by the AMCAS schools in WA, we could then move to TX, I can still invoke AFS (I would still have courses to take to fulfill TMDSAS admissions), and the academic record prior to my application would be ignored, save for what I've started taking now.

Could this be the best of both worlds? Would TMDSAS look at a prior AMCAS application failure as an unofficial reapplication to medical school when applying to TMDSAS schools? I've managed to find courses I can take with my work schedule, though this admittedly could get fairly tricky down the road (physics and organic chemistry offerings are particularly slim in WA).

Any insight from anyone is welcome! Adcoms, your input would be invaluable. @Goro @gonnif @gyngyn

Thanks for all of your help thus far. I've already completed a successful Summer term and am ready for the upcoming Fall term. Gen Chem series and some non-science prerequisites are currently scheduled. Making some headway!
 
Got you.

So if I apply via TMDSAS a few years after applying via AMCAS, do I run the risk of TMDSAS contacting AMCAS and finding out that while I'm not a resident of WA any longer, I have been and have applied as a WA resident in the past?


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Got you.
So if I apply via TMDSAS a few years after applying via AMCAS, do I run the risk of TMDSAS contacting AMCAS and finding out that while I'm not a resident of WA any longer, I have been and have applied as a WA resident in the past?
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TMDSAS will find out regardless because you will have to report it on the TX application.

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https://www.tmdsas.com/Application Handbook EY 2018.pdf
 
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My info was solely that AMCAS will not report previous applications. Thank you for the correct info that applicants will need

Just paying it forward for all the times you have helped answered my questions!!!
 
Do you mean AFS when you mention grade forgiveness?
 
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