April 15th and PTE confusion

[m222222]

I realize this has probably been discussed before on SDN, but if we've narrowed down our school list to three schools, is there some page on AMCAS where we should select them by the April 15th deadline? I just want to make sure that if I do nothing by 4/15, I don't accidentally forfeit my top 3 choices in favor of the first three schools listed alphabetically on AMCAS.

Also, what's the deal with PTE deadlines? Do all schools have them? Is the deadline 4/30 for all schools? And if you select PTE for a school on 4/30, can you later decide to enroll in one of the other schools where you were accepted?

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[m222222]

Got it. But there’s nothing official we must do by April 15th (through CYMS or otherwise) regarding winnowing our list down to three schools?

 

[KnightDoc]

Got it. But there’s nothing official we must do by April 15th (through CYMS or otherwise) regarding winnowing our list down to three schools?

Correct. No one can see anything specific to you until 4/30. Reducing to 3 is a strong suggestion, and is the right thing to do in consideration of people anxiously awaiting WL movement, but no one will know if you keep all your As on that date.

After 4/30, no, you won't be able to switch around, because all the schools whose PTE deadlines you blew will know it, and will either gently remind you to make the selection or unceremoniously just rescind your A. Either way, unless you have a good reason and get a specific exemption, you should assume you will be left with one A, if not by your own volition on 4/30, then certainly unilaterally via action by the schools in the few days thereafter.

While it is natural that all of our respective worlds revolve around us, it is important to keep in mind that schools need to firm up their class and jump right into the next cycle (they will start receiving primaries on 6/25), while people on WLs need to know whether and where they will be attending school, so nobody has a lot of interest in indulging indecisive procrastinators post-4/30.

On the other hand, if a school does not require you to select PTE on 4/30, then, theoretically, you can continue to hold that A while PTEing elsewhere, although you would be violating the PTE school's requirement to reduce to one A. Unfortunately for them, the CYMS tool only allows them to see PTE/CTE, not simple As that have neither been dropped nor made the subject of a PTE election.

 

[KnightDoc]

@KnightDoc Just remember that a school can always see who they have accepted themselves. So on 5/1 if they School X see their acceptee John Doe has not PTE with them by their PTE date (presumably 4/30), they could drop him. Or if school X sees their acceptee John Doe has PTE elsewhere, they can drop. A school can always see their own acceptee and will expect their policies will be followed, regardless whatever that acceptee has or has not done via CYMS at other schools

Of course! The exception would be if a school does NOT require PTE on 4/30 (there are a few!). Presumably, this is because they are NOT requiring adherence to the protocols. In this case, you CAN hold that A while PTEing elsewhere. You will be violating the requirements of the school that required you to PTE by 4/30 by continuing to hold more than one A, but they won't see the other A, and the school that allowed you to hold the A without selecting PTE will see the other PTE, but, presumably, will not enforce since they are not requiring you to follow the protocols.

 

[pigsinacloth]

Of course! The exception would be if a school does NOT require PTE on 4/30 (there are a few!). Presumably, this is because they are NOT requiring adherence to the protocols. In this case, you CAN hold that A while PTEing elsewhere. You will be violating the requirements of the school that required you to PTE by 4/30 by continuing to hold more than one A, but they won't see the other A, and the school that allowed you to hold the A without selecting PTE will see the other PTE, but, presumably, will not enforce since they are not requiring you to follow the protocols.

That sounds pretty shady to me at best and very dishonest in practice. Also lets say the school you list as PTE on 4/30 does find out about your other A that you are still holding. What's stopping them from dropping you on the spot?

 

[KnightDoc]

That sounds pretty shady to me at best and very dishonest in practice. Also lets say the school you list as PTE on 4/30 does find out about your other A that you are still holding. What's stopping them from dropping you on the spot?

Nothing, since you are violating their rules. It is shady, but it's the system AMCAS set up. Schools have to load As into the CYMS tool in order for it to be operational for you, so AMCAS could have allowed schools to see them, but they didn't. Exactly how is the PTE school going to find out about the other A?

 

[pigsinacloth]

Nothing, since you are violating their rules. It is shady, but it's the system AMCAS set up. Schools have to load As into the CYMS tool in order for it to be operational for you, so AMCAS could have allowed schools to see them, but they didn't. Exactly how is the PTE school going to find out about the other A?

I'm not sure. Probably the same way that they would find out if someone lied about an activity on their application, very unlikely random chance. I'm just saying it would be really awful to take the chance an end up losing that A.

 

[KnightDoc]

I'm not sure. Probably the same way that they would find out if someone lied about an activity on their application, very unlikely random chance. I'm just saying it would be really awful to take the chance an end up losing that A.

Don't get me wrong. I think it is very obnoxious to mess around just because you can, at the expense of people waiting for WL calls. And, the fact is there are very few schools that do not have a 4/30 PTE deadline. Next, there are certainly very few people at those schools with multiple As who want to hold 2 (or more) post-4/30. Once you get through all those contingencies, the odds are getting caught if it's something you want to do are pretty close to zero.

You get caught lying about an activity if a school checks during pre-matriculation due diligence. There is no analogue for post-4/30 admission activity, because there are multiple legitimate reasons to hold more than one A after 4/30 (permission from a school, recent call off a WL, waiting for fin aid, etc.). The enforcement mechanism is the CYMS tool. If a school is going to undermine that by not requiring its use, there really is nothing other schools can do about it.

I would never do it just because I could, because it's really nothing more than an unnecessary flex. The cycle lasts for close to a year. You go through the process, get whatever As you're going to get, get net cost information, spend a few days weighing your options, attending second looks, etc., and make a decision. No need to drag it out indefinitely. JMHO, but, for those so inclined to screw around, I don't think the risk of getting caught is worth worrying about if one or more of your schools does not require use of the CYMS tool on 4/30.

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

The only tricky part it seems (to me at least) is where you have an acceptance and you PTE to that school and then the last week of April you get off a WL with a second acceptance. Then, presumably, you have to quickly decide which school to PTE with and drop the other acceptance before the 4/30 date. No time to visit the schools. Let me know if I'm missing something but that seems like a potential issue to me.

 

[KnightDoc]

The only tricky part it seems (to me at least) is where you have an acceptance and you PTE to that school and then the last week of April you get off a WL with a second acceptance. Then, presumably, you have to quickly decide which school to PTE with and drop the other acceptance before the 4/30 date. No time to visit the schools. Let me know if I'm missing something but that seems like a potential issue to me.

You are missing something. There is a carve out for getting off a WL, whether it's the last week of April or the second week of May, so it's not an issue.

No, you won't have as much time as if you were accepted in March, but all schools will give you SOME time to make a decision (typically 2 weeks before 5/1 and one week after). This is an exception to the rules regarding holding multiple As, and you do NOT need permission from your PTE.

Theoretically, if you receive a WL offer on 4/30, that school could give you until 5/14 to make a decision, and you can hold two As for two weeks after 4/30 without permission from your PTE school, and without breaking any rules. The PTE school will never even know about the A unless you tell them, unless and until you choose it as you PTE and drop your current PTE.

When you make a decision, you PTE at the school you are keeping and drop the other A. You can do this over and over again as you are called off WLs until the CTE deadline at the school you are PTEd to at that time.

 

[proudofmykids]

@KnightDoc Just remember that a school can always see who they have accepted themselves. So on 5/1 if they School X see their acceptee John Doe has not PTE with them by their PTE date (presumably 4/30), they could drop him. Or if school X sees their acceptee John Doe has PTE elsewhere, they can drop. A school can always see their own acceptee and will expect their policies will be followed, regardless whatever that acceptee has or has not done via CYMS at other schools

Does this mean that for any school that Accepted person X, that school gets to see X’s other acceptances? Or are they only able to see the PTE selected school?

 

[akg0119]

Wait, so it's not mandatory for us to narrow to 3 schools by 4/15?

 

[KnightDoc]

Does this mean that for any school that Accepted person X, that school gets to see X’s other acceptances? Or are they only able to see the PTE selected school?

They can never see any specific school. They can never see other As, but can see that you PTEd somewhere else. They cannot see where until the very end of the cycle. In October they can run a report and see where all of their accepted applicants matriculated.

 

[akg0119]

Not mandatory

Wow, thank you, I didn't know. So the only traffic rule that is mandatory is just to PTE/CTE by April 30?

 

[KnightDoc]

Wow, thank you, I didn't know. So the only traffic rule that is mandatory is just to PTE/CTE by April 30?

The only rule that is mandatory is what is imposed by your schools, and what they can enforcement. There is no enforcement mechanism prior to 4/30, even if they tell you you HAVE to reduce to 3 by 4/15. That's the key.

On 4/30 they can run a report and see if you PTEd (or CTEd, if applicable). Before then, they can't see anything specific to you, so they can't enforce. AMCAS does not enforce anything, and they are the only entity that can see everything, since they collect the data and run the platform!

 

[Putkernerinthehall]

You are missing something. There is a carve out for getting off a WL, whether it's the last week of April or the second week of May, so it's not an issue.

No, you won't have as much time as if you were accepted in March, but all schools will give you SOME time to make a decision (typically 2 weeks before 5/1 and one week after). This is an exception to the rules regarding holding multiple As, and you do NOT need permission from your PTE.

Theoretically, if you receive a WL offer on 4/30, that school could give you until 5/14 to make a decision, and you can hold two As for two weeks after 4/30 without permission from your PTE school, and without breaking any rules. The PTE school will never even know about the A unless you tell them, unless and until you choose it as you PTE and drop your current PTE.

When you make a decision, you PTE at the school you are keeping and drop the other A. You can do this over and over again as you are called off WLs until the CTE deadline at the school you are PTEd to at that time.

Thanks. Your last two paragraphs clear it up. Issue would only be if the CTE date for current PTE school is early (like 4/30 or 5/15, for example). That scenario would require quick decision and would limit later acceptances from other WL. Are CTE dates published or do you have to call the school ?

 

[Talldoctor96]

Thanks. Your last two paragraphs clear it up. Issue would only be if the CTE date for current PTE school is early (like 4/30 or 5/15, for example). That scenario would require quick decision and would limit later acceptances from other WL. Are CTE dates published or do you have to call the school ?

if you've been accepted to a medical school, theres a very very good chance you've been provided the CTE date.

 

[KnightDoc]

Thanks. Your last two paragraphs clear it up. Issue would only be if the CTE date for current PTE school is early (like 4/30 or 5/15, for example). That scenario would require quick decision and would limit later acceptances from other WL. Are CTE dates published or do you have to call the school ?

They are on most school's websites, but they are not always updated or accurate. Schools should be communicating them with the As, if not in the e-mail, then certainly on their portals. They can't make them a difficult to discover secret if they expect you to comply, but they are only relevant if you have an A. MSAR has some data, but it's notoriously out of date at times, so I'd rely on the school rather than AAMC.

Yes, early CTE are evil, and are used to lock people in and limit their choices. Fortunately, most schools do not have them until the end of May or later.

 

[Med Ed]

Wait, so it's not mandatory for us to narrow to 3 schools by 4/15?

As noted above, it is not mandatory but strongly encouraged. It helps open seats during the latter half of April, which gets things closer to settled prior to the 4/30 rush.

 

[sr4b]

Not mandatory

Could a medical school see this info if they'd like? I had some literal last minute info come in today from a school I was all set to drop and now it's too late to contact the other offices and ask for an extension so I'm a little freaked out! I really only need a day or two- could I potentially have an acceptance revoked over this? If so I won't risk it but I definitely feel like I could use more time!

@Med Ed

 

[KnightDoc]

Could a medical school see this info if they'd like? I had some literal last minute info come in today from a school I was all set to drop and now it's too late to contact the other offices and ask for an extension so I'm a little freaked out! I really only need a day or two- could I potentially have an acceptance revoked over this?

@Med Ed

No. They cannot see anything until 4/30. You therefore do not need an extension, and there is no reason to ask for one.

 

[Rheopecty]

Could a medical school see this info if they'd like? I had some literal last minute info come in today from a school I was all set to drop and now it's too late to contact the other offices and ask for an extension so I'm a little freaked out! I really only need a day or two- could I potentially have an acceptance revoked over this? If so I won't risk it but I definitely feel like I could use more time!

@Med Ed

Not. Mandatory. They are still blind to names right now with PTE.

 

[proudofmykids]

Could a medical school see this info if they'd like? I had some literal last minute info come in today from a school I was all set to drop and now it's too late to contact the other offices and ask for an extension so I'm a little freaked out! I really only need a day or two- could I potentially have an acceptance revoked over this? If so I won't risk it but I definitely feel like I could use more time!

@Med Ed

Not Mandatory = not required = schools can’t see your count

 

[sr4b]

Okay thanks guys! @proudofmykids / @Rheopecty / @KnightDoc - I guess my confusion stems from the fact that one of my acceptances says the April 15th rule in their own school-specific guidelines- does that change the situation? I guess not if they really can't know but this would be the dumbest way ever to not get into med school so I'm stressing haha

 

[sr4b]

The school policy requires it, you are taking a risk by not adhering to it

understood. I'll just make my decision. it's quite unfortunate that schools don't give us information prior to this point- I'd like to see a policy for that

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I heard AAMC is not even handled to handle 04/15 reduce to 3 option. My son informed one school too weeks back and it's still not updated.

This is what one school sent couple of days back

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We received your withdrawal several days ago…our connection to AMCAS to upload this “action” has been broken for several days and I can’t get it uploaded.

I realize April 15 is coming very quickly, I hope to have it fixed by then…anticipating many withdrawals and many questions from applicants, I will notify AMCAS to ask for their help today.

If the action is not uploaded by the 15th, I am certain that neither AMCAS nor any of your schools will automatically reject you based on your holding a spot at more than 3 schools.

 

[akg0119]

How do we know if a school requires us to drop to 3 by today? If this hasn't been publicized do we just assume it's not required by them?

 

[sr4b]

I heard AAMC is not even handled to handle 04/15 reduce to 3 option. My son informed one school too weeks back and it's still not updated.

This is what one school sent couple of days back

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We received your withdrawal several days ago…our connection to AMCAS to upload this “action” has been broken for several days and I can’t get it uploaded.

I realize April 15 is coming very quickly, I hope to have it fixed by then…anticipating many withdrawals and many questions from applicants, I will notify AMCAS to ask for their help today.

If the action is not uploaded by the 15th, I am certain that neither AMCAS nor any of your schools will automatically reject you based on your holding a spot at more than 3 schools.

I’m so glad you shared this- I narrowed to 3 just before midnight on the 15th and it still isn’t reflecting the change. After @gonnif ’s stern warning I’m wondering if i should let that school with the stricter policy know that I have narrowed to 3 despite this?

 

[EdgeTrimmer]

I’m so glad you shared this- I narrowed to 3 just before midnight on the 15th and it still isn’t reflecting the change. After @gonnif ’s stern warning I’m wondering if i should let that school with the stricter policy know that I have narrowed to 3 despite this?

I don't think any school has strict April 15th deadline. Only April 30th is a firm deadline I believe,