Are any of you worried about job market? whats our future as PharmD's?

[natorx]

I have accepted a seat to Pharm School, and have a few interviews pending.

I can not get over the fear of paying 60k - 140k in tuition, with a profession that is threatened to go obsolete. The more I research, the more I wish Pharmacist had a stronger union, and pull in Washington - and controlling this rapid amount of school growth.

I despise retail - and worried I'll get pigeon held into it with the outlook on Pharmacy residencies. I want to help with drug therapy,and work in a hospital where I can have maximum patient interaction.

On a good note, 2015 baby boomers will be prime age, and hopefully we can play a important role during those times.




have any of you thought about this question before you apply? please do your research, the job market for pharmacist is not great, and the profession itself is threatened if we do not have people in Washington expand our scope and responsibilities.

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[natorx]

why is Pharmacy the only Professional Medical Doctorate that do not call each other Doctor either? I think that would change with more clinical, and patient management roles.

Its only name, I know it doesn't matter - but - Godsake, PA's call each other Doctor, and they only went to grad-school for 2years.

 

[Rouelle]

Market saturation has been discussed at length on these forums. The following "megathread" may answer some of your questions:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=639184

 

[natorx]

I know I seen that thread. This is more geared towards students making the decision. I would gamble to say a lot of people have no clue what the market is like right now.

 

[NaOH]

As I've said before- there are always jobs for exceptional applicants. At least for the foreseeable future, the days of pulse + license = jeorb are long gone. Even then, I'm convinced that if you are flexible and are committed to excelling, opportunities will present themselves.

 

[rxlea]

Lol at "obsolete" and "pigeon held". This has been discussed ad nauseum. Not trying to be mean but, for the love of god, please use the search function or post in the GIANT thread on the job market kthxbye

 

[xtsukiyox]

I know I seen that thread. This is more geared towards students making the decision. I would gamble to say a lot of people have no clue what the market is like right now.

I would gamble that people making the decision to join a professional program have done their homework.

 

[chemguy79]

I would gamble that people making the decision to join a professional program have done their homework.

I usually agree with your thoughts on every thread, but in this case ... I start to hedge my bets. I think that most people on SDN have thought about that; However, I've grown wary of assuming that knowledge.

I say this because almost all of the pre-professional students that I'm working with through tutoring General Chemistry and Organic Chemistry are completely ignorant about the fact that they will need to network and put in an effort to finding a job after graduation. Hell, I have colleagues who finished their PhD's or JD's who were expecting to find tons jobs after graduation and they're stuck temping at a law firm. Ignorance is bliss and sadly, I think that more people are blissful than I would have imagined.

Or maybe it's Monday morning and I'm uber cynical without my three cups of coffee ... *grin*

 

[natorx]

Sdn'er is the exception, we are ahead of the curve with knowledge. There a reason we participate in this forum, because we care about our profession/ future profession.

That being said, trust me many people are going into pharmacy thinking easy big $$$ from just a word of mouth. Personally I have stats I could have a reasonable shot at DO/ MD. I chose this for lifestyle reasons, and being a chem nerd this niche makes sense.

I just want the best for our profession, and hope we as next generation can push the profession further.


SORRY FOR BEATING A DEAD HORSE, BEATING DEAD HORSES ARE NOT WELL TAKEN HERE lol

 

[ACE Rx]

I'm not going to bash but just stating the facts here.

In general, most people that choose dentistry, medicine, optometry, pharmacy have done their homework and have decided which field they want to pursue. Job outlook in most fields are currently down due to the recession. It's a buyers market so you have to be the best you can possibly be. If you do, jobs will always be available since there are many deadbeats who just want a high paying salary and work 9 - 5 pm. Unfortunately, many of these people are in pharmacy and will soon be in for a rude awakening due to the way our profession is evolving.

I have accepted a seat to Pharm School, and have a few interviews pending.

The more I research, the more I wish Pharmacist had a stronger union, and pull in Washington - and controlling this rapid amount of school growth.

Your top choice school is apparently UNE-Pharmacy. This is one of the new schools, that is not even accredited yet, that is causing the problem in the first place

We definitely need a stronger union. AMA is one of the best, if not the best, union in the world. APhA is sponsored by many retail corporations.

Sdn'er is the exception, we are ahead of the curve with knowledge. There a reason we participate in this forum, because we care about our profession/ future profession.

Personally I have stats I could have a reasonable shot at DO/ MD. I chose this for lifestyle reasons, and being a chem nerd this niche makes sense.

I disagree based on the stats you described in an earlier post. A PharmCAS cGPA of 2.9 and a PCAT of 53 is generally in the weed-out area for almost all schools. I know you did some post-bacc but it can only help so much. Again, not to bash what you said but stating the facts here. Best of luck to you.

SDN'ers are definitely ahead of the curve. I could not agree more.

 

[natorx]

No my top choice is Texas Tech and university of Colorado

Then Glendale, then UNE





I have revised my thoughts on UNE, after I received new invites to interview.

 

[natorx]

I forgot to mention in those stats factor that my total gpa from classes I took 12 years ago. My science and math category is 3.9 demonstrating high marks in biochem, Physical Chem and many other chem major courses in the UT system. Also all my prerequisite classes all A's. Granted a sucky pcat, but all sections beside verbal, and reading where somewhat competitive.

My app clearly states I'm a returning student, and explains the time gap. I have got interview invites to Texas Tech, UNE, University of Colorado, Lecom-B, Glendale and Roosevelt.

My app can't be that bad right?




By time I graduate factoring 2 more semester I'll be a 3.2 overall and 3.9 science and math. Along with being authored on publications and working as a research assistant, and plenty EC's I think I would be a ok candidate for med school, if I was able obtain a strong mcat. Keeping the stipulation that my previous years in school, business communication classes that matter for nothing are not held strongly against me. That's not the point thought that's not the route I went for - or want.

 

[iBeast]

I usually agree with your thoughts on every thread, but in this case ... I start to hedge my bets. I think that most people on SDN have thought about that; However, I've grown wary of assuming that knowledge.

I say this because almost all of the pre-professional students that I'm working with through tutoring General Chemistry and Organic Chemistry are completely ignorant about the fact that they will need to network and put in an effort to finding a job after graduation. Hell, I have colleagues who finished their PhD's or JD's who were expecting to find tons jobs after graduation and they're stuck temping at a law firm. Ignorance is bliss and sadly, I think that more people are blissful than I would have imagined.

Or maybe it's Monday morning and I'm uber cynical without my three cups of coffee ... *grin*

Isn't this true for every profession? I think everyone knows that...

 

[chemguy79]

Isn't this true for every profession?

That's exactly my point and you are foolish if you think that "everyone knows that."

From personal experience, a fairly large number of pre-professional applicants, let alone Humanities or Science majors, as well as students in professional programs are blissfully ignorant to this fact. They assume that because they're pursuing a Bachelor's or an advanced degree that the job market will be eager to have them when it's the opposite in most cases. When I finished graduate school in 2007, I was pretty fortunate to get a job less than a month after graduation. I have colleagues who graduated a year after me who are still working non-contract temp jobs because the pharma R&D industry is swollen with applicants. Hell, my boyfriend has his PhD in Vocal Performance, graduated 3 years ago, and is an adjunct at 3 universities to make ends meet.

I hope that I don't come across as a doom and gloomer because if anything, I've battled the doom and gloom trolls on SDN for ages. My point is that one must expect to network and do it incredibly well. MOST people are surprisingly obtuse to that fact. The fact that you are not grants you a cookie.

Here is your cookie.

 

[natorx]

I think networking is very important.

My wife works for CPS and graduated with a degree in sociology. Talk about over saturation of people trying to land government worker jobs, plus layoffs. She networked her way into a job, and kept contact with everyone she interned with. While all the other social workers are on the Internet complaining.

Ive always been a people person, my goal is set on clinical. First day of class to the day I get my degree and license my eye is on the prize.

 

[DelawareStudent]

have any of you thought about this question before you apply? please do your research, the job market for pharmacist is not great, and the profession itself is threatened if we do not have people in Washington expand our scope and responsibilities.

If this is truly your concern, I would recommend speaking to practicing pharmacists, not student pharmacists and pre-pharmers. If you've already done this and feel the same way, feel free to share your cited thoughts rather than making broad speculative statements.

 

[ACE Rx]

I forgot to mention in those stats factor that my total gpa from classes I took 12 years ago. My science and math category is 3.9 demonstrating high marks in biochem, Physical Chem and many other chem major courses in the UT system. Also all my prerequisite classes all A's. Granted a sucky pcat, but all sections beside verbal, and reading where somewhat competitive.

You obviously have been doing something right to get those interviews...they aren't easy to come by. If you're from Texas and took courses over 12 years ago, I believe you can do the Texas academic fresh start such that those courses taken that many years ago won't count against you in the admissions process.

 

[natorx]

Hey AceRX,

I never really thought about a academic refresh, thanks for the idea I'm going to look into that. This was in California hopefully they area progressive in that area. Straight out of high school I was a idiot, went to community college and didn't care about grades. My saving grace was I took no math or sciences. So when I returned to school I went hard, and kicked ass. Maybe a refresh will significantly raise my gpa and I can really apply to med-school now (lol jk)

Good luck, at the end of the day we all the same goal. I'm 31, and found my passion in life late haha but hey mid 30's getting my pharmd isn't so shabby.

 

[iBeast]

That's exactly my point and you are foolish if you think that "everyone knows that."

From personal experience, a fairly large number of pre-professional applicants, let alone Humanities or Science majors, as well as students in professional programs are blissfully ignorant to this fact. They assume that because they're pursuing a Bachelor's or an advanced degree that the job market will be eager to have them when it's the opposite in most cases. When I finished graduate school in 2007, I was pretty fortunate to get a job less than a month after graduation. I have colleagues who graduated a year after me who are still working non-contract temp jobs because the pharma R&D industry is swollen with applicants. Hell, my boyfriend has his PhD in Vocal Performance, graduated 3 years ago, and is an adjunct at 3 universities to make ends meet.

I hope that I don't come across as a doom and gloomer because if anything, I've battled the doom and gloom trolls on SDN for ages. My point is that one must expect to network and do it incredibly well. MOST people are surprisingly obtuse to that fact. The fact that you are not grants you a cookie.

Here is your cookie.

I thought you were a guy all this time. Unless, you're gay, which is fine too.

 

[CareDD]

Sdn'er is the exception, we are ahead of the curve with knowledge. There a reason we participate in this forum, because we care about our profession/ future profession.

That being said, trust me many people are going into pharmacy thinking easy big $$$ from just a word of mouth. Personally I have stats I could have a reasonable shot at DO/ MD. I chose this for lifestyle reasons, and being a chem nerd this niche makes sense.

I just want the best for our profession, and hope we as next generation can push the profession further.


SORRY FOR BEATING A DEAD HORSE, BEATING DEAD HORSES ARE NOT WELL TAKEN HERE lol

Get this straight, either choose medicine or stay with pharmacy. I know somebody who went to UCSF pharmacy school, graduated, currently own 1 retail store, and he has been saying if he could go back, he would choose to do MD. WAT THE HELL? although saying that makes you feel better about yourself, making other pple having a better impression of you, but inadvertently putting your profession down. At the end of the day, those MDs will just look at us and smirk, "I like my job!". On the other hand, we are feeling down and ocassionally wannabe called doctor bcuz of our so call Doctor of Pharmacy degree. Seriously, this is lame.

I choose pharmacy bcuz of several reasons, and the field is evolving does not deter me at all. Every profession needs to somewhat change to adapt its role in the society, changing for the better, and we are not afraid of that

 

[natorx]

Inadvertently putting your profession down.

You have a good point, re-reading what I wrote I agree it sounds smug.

This profession is important to the health community, and its frustrating. I have to do a serious soul-search and see what I want. I don't want to commit to pharmacy school with a cloud a doubt. Its not fair to take a spot, when there is probably someone out there that knows it's "exactly" the profession they want. If I seek clinical, and the outlook is not certain for clinical pharmacist, maybe i'm in the wrong boat.

I would never wish anyone but the best in there life, and career. I hope all the new grads sake things turn around.

 

[xtsukiyox]

I usually agree with your thoughts on every thread, but in this case ... I start to hedge my bets. I think that most people on SDN have thought about that; However, I've grown wary of assuming that knowledge.

I say this because almost all of the pre-professional students that I'm working with through tutoring General Chemistry and Organic Chemistry are completely ignorant about the fact that they will need to network and put in an effort to finding a job after graduation. Hell, I have colleagues who finished their PhD's or JD's who were expecting to find tons jobs after graduation and they're stuck temping at a law firm. Ignorance is bliss and sadly, I think that more people are blissful than I would have imagined.

Or maybe it's Monday morning and I'm uber cynical without my three cups of coffee ... *grin*

I suppose it's more polite for me to say "I'd assume they've done their homework" than "it's on them if they haven't - a professional student should know how." Honestly, this is a case of "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink." The pharmacy application & interview process already requires you to do research or at least give lip service to it - I'm not sure what else can be done.

I would prefer to assume the best about my peers - that they are intelligent, grounded, and proactive enough to do their due dilligence. The alternative the OP presented is that they lack those qualities and are in fact too naive or short-sighted (or pick your adjective) to do their research prior to making the leap. The alternative may be the case (you've provided anecdotal evidence to that end). However, assuming someone doesn't know about the job market suggests education as a next step, and I feel this education should be initiated by the individual, contrary to the many "this is how it really is!" threads.

This doesn't mean that I am also naive and think that everyone's done their homework. In this, I'll drop another colloquialism: "common sense isn't common." What might occur to you & me (figure out how sound the future of the field you're betting on is) may either not occur to them, or they may not care. Or they may not make decisions based on the same factors (which isn't to say pragmatism is the "right" way to do it). I accept that people have the free will to make the decision however they choose to make it, including without good job market information.

The decision the OP is wrestling with is common to all students in expensive fields. I'm surprised that he didn't make his peace with it earlier in the process. (It's easier to sound confident in an interview if you are, in fact, confident.) While it's also common to be nervious, it's a personal decision that requires your own soul searching.

Gee, now which one of us is cynical?

 

[Rx MPLS]

I feel like many of my classmates and schoolmates are worried about the job market. This nervousness seems to increase the closer they are to graduation. Nobody I know expects sign on bonuses or free cars from employers. They just hope they find an employer and a job that suits their interests.

 

[chemguy79]

I suppose it's more polite for me to say "I'd assume they've done their homework" than "it's on them if they haven't - a professional student should know how." Honestly, this is a case of "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make them drink." The pharmacy application & interview process already requires you to do research or at least give lip service to it - I'm not sure what else can be done.

I would prefer to assume the best about my peers - that they are intelligent, grounded, and proactive enough to do their due dilligence. The alternative the OP presented is that they lack those qualities and are in fact too naive or short-sighted (or pick your adjective) to do their research prior to making the leap. The alternative may be the case (you've provided anecdotal evidence to that end). However, assuming someone doesn't know about the job market suggests education as a next step, and I feel this education should be initiated by the individual, contrary to the many "this is how it really is!" threads.

This doesn't mean that I am also naive and think that everyone's done their homework. In this, I'll drop another colloquialism: "common sense isn't common." What might occur to you & me (figure out how sound the future of the field you're betting on is) may either not occur to them, or they may not care. Or they may not make decisions based on the same factors (which isn't to say pragmatism is the "right" way to do it). I accept that people have the free will to make the decision however they choose to make it, including without good job market information.

The decision the OP is wrestling with is common to all students in expensive fields. I'm surprised that he didn't make his peace with it earlier in the process. (It's easier to sound confident in an interview if you are, in fact, confident.) While it's also common to be nervious, it's a personal decision that requires your own soul searching.

Gee, now which one of us is cynical?

Agreed, xtsukiyox. I didn't want to become one of the "This is how it really is!" fear monger posters and I like to think that I've shown that I'm far from that given my time on SDN.

It does surprise me the number of people who are genuinely worried about the debt, however, the same can be said for undergraduate debt as well. Most people finish undergrad with a certain amount of debt and most people view it as a means to an end. I have the same mentality with regards to pharmacy school.

That is why I'm always amused as to why another 100K strikes that much fear to students when said student will CLEARLY have a much larger earning potential than they would as an undergraduate student?

Unlike law students, there isn't a hierarchy with respect to schools, although ... given all of the new schools and accreditation issues, I wouldn't be surprised if it's becoming an issue.

Having said all of that ... Given the degree of saturation in certain places, there's a likelihood that you'll have to move, moonlight, etc. but most people encounter the same thing in their careers out of undergrad. Besides, I don't view this as a bad thing. It will require that said students typically perform better in schools and be more active in the industry in order to secure employment. It MAY make better pharmacists, but that's a bit too Pollyanna for me to ponder ...

Furthermore, most people are LUCKY to find a job in their degree field after undergrad and with Pharmacy, you're going to find a job in your field after school.

As for the debt issue? Loan debt debt has never concerned me; Afterall, I have 50K of debt from undergrad and grad school, I've worked a career job for almost 5 years, so I'm familiar with the job hunt and the rat race. A vast majority of applicants haven't worked full-time, they have yet to finish their degree, they haven't lived on their own so the prospect of debt is scary. This is why I believe that students should be required to finish undergrad prior to applying to a professional program because I feel that some students are completely lacking in common sense with respect to what they deserve and what their expectations are with respect to actually working and having a career.

BTW iBeast, I'm definitely a guy.

 

[natorx]

What do you think when current pharmacy students are throwing out warning signs?

Obvious they're passing there fear on us, but what other profession is doing that? You don't see MD's warning new students about jobs and stuff, because by all means they know they're going to be ok.

On the other hand JD's are doing what pharmacist in part are doing, warning the next generation. My brother just graduated from Santa Clara Law, and trust me he is not advicating law school - he kind of bought into if I go to a tier1 I will find a job, and get paid the big bucks. Its in a way what pharmacy school sells you 4years = 6 figures. This isn't an all about money issue, but it does become about money when you think about ROI.

That being said there will always be a need for the pharmacy profession, just like a need for lawyers.

It comes down to if you love it or not - if you love it do it. I'm not sure if I love it, I know I would be content and find enjoyment. I'm versed in the profession, have people I know in pharmacy school I can talk to, and have a family friend as a pharmacist. They are the one's that have been warning, and caused me to be very critical about this decision.

 

[chemguy79]

What do you think when current pharmacy students are throwing out warning signs?

Obvious they're passing there fear on us, but what other profession is doing that? You don't see MD's warning new students about jobs and stuff, because by all means they know they're going to be ok.

On the other hand JD's are doing what pharmacist in part are doing, warning the next generation. My brother just graduated from Santa Clara Law, and trust me he is not advicating law school.

That being said there will always be a need for the pharmacy profession, just like a need for lawyers.

It comes down to if you love it or not - if you love it do it. I'm not sure if I love it, I know I would be content and find enjoyment. I'm versed in the profession, have people I know in pharmacy school I can talk to, and have a family friend as a pharmacist. They are the one's that have been warning, and caused me to be very critical about this decision.

I believe that the warning signs are valid. It is more difficult to find a job than it was 5 years ago. Sign-on bonuses are non-existent, tuition reimbursement is a thing of the past, etc. The supply of pharmacists is greater than the demand for pharmacists. The opening of new schools and the diminishing credentials of applicants makes me punch myself for not applying back in 2004 with a low 3 GPA, double major in Biology and Chemistry with a 99th percentile PCAT because I was afraid that my stats weren't strong enough. Planning FAIL!

I want to be a pharmacist and while these are potential points for concern, it doesn't concern me because of my experiences. I've been through a contracting job market, I have student loan debt, etc. IMO, I am an exception relative to 99% of the pre-pharmacy students on SDN. Therefore, student loan debt, hunting for a job, moving to a different part of the country doesn't concern me at all. It gives me added ambition to perform better in pharmacy school instead of thinking that I can coast through school and get a job handed to me upon graduation. It's not the way that it should happen, so I get a fair bit of sadistic glee out of it. (Sad, but very true.)

I can understand students who haven't had that experience and their trepidation about the industry. If anything, it makes me happy because it will mean fewer applicants that I'll have to compete with in the admissions process. It's making applicants become more shrewd about applying to schools and the like. If you're concerned about it, don't apply. However, having performed the cost-benefit analysis and the like, it's a pretty sweet gig if you're prepared to work hard during school and afterwards to find a job.

 

[natorx]

^ You make good points. I agree if you know how to hustle you'll be good. I'm returning student, previous to this I managed a Starbucks.

I think I've decided to finish my degree, I'm a semester away from Biochem Degree. It will buy me time to think and not feel rushed into a choice.

Pharmacy school is going no where, and in a year my app would be only stronger if I wanted to apply.

In the meantime I'm going to play with idea of taking the mcat, and see what doors are open. I'm lucky I live in Texas, our school here accept 90% residents, and I live am and live in a URM area. So I think if I work hard enough, odds can be in my favor in whatever I choose to persue.

 

[xtsukiyox]

chemguy79, you ask why someone would be nervous about "another" 100k. First, I have paid cash so far (well, and some was paid by scholarship), so I have little experience with the financial aid process and I don't have any student loans to compare it to. I work for a bank, bro, so I know exactly what 100k in student loans can do to someone's cash flow. I was nervous about the debt for my mortgage (even though the payment is less than what I was paying in rent). Because of my experience, I think very carefully about debt and like to have all the information up front, which is impossible in this process. I just have to keep telling myself that the loans will come, they won't be unmanageable, and the ROI is very positive.

As far as the job market situation - I think it's a matter of experience, as you've pointed out. Pharmacy does follow economic trends, but... well... I doubt anything's going to compare to trying to find a job in banking in 2008.

 

[Buk Lau]

I, too, am beginning to seriously seriously consider going into pharmacy school. I just have one question: will I be able to find ANY pharmacist job ANYWHERE in the United States in 5 years? Can somebody make a prediction? And if I don't go into pharmacy, what is a prosperous field to go into? Do IT majors get jobs easily? The way I see it is that nobody in any field is guaranteed a job nowadays. But I just want what I deserve, and lets say I work exceptionally hard in pharmacy school and am part of an organization or two - you know, the average student. Will I have any job at all after I graduate? How about if I do 2 years of residency? Then will I have a job? I just want somebody to say that there will be a good chance of this in the future. Because the way I see it, urban pharmacies are not hiring, but are rural places hiring? I've put in so much into my future as a pharmacist and I really do want to go into this field. But there are always circumstances that determine results: if there are already no more jobs left in even rural places in America, I may have to switch majors or something...I just don't know.

 

[Notecard]

I thought about it before I applied and I wasn't worried. I'm still not worried. I didn't pick this profession because the job market was lovely 5-10 years ago. If that really is one of your main reasons for choosing pharmacy I'd recommend finding something else.

 

[babybull]

all you pre-pharms just aim for something else so that i'll be able to find a job several years from now!!!!

after i find a job thennnnnnnnnn you can enter pharmacy

 

[DelawareStudent]

I, too, am beginning to seriously seriously consider going into pharmacy school. I just have one question: will I be able to find ANY pharmacist job ANYWHERE in the United States in 5 years? Can somebody make a prediction? And if I don't go into pharmacy, what is a prosperous field to go into? Do IT majors get jobs easily? The way I see it is that nobody in any field is guaranteed a job nowadays. But I just want what I deserve, and lets say I work exceptionally hard in pharmacy school and am part of an organization or two - you know, the average student. Will I have any job at all after I graduate? How about if I do 2 years of residency? Then will I have a job? I just want somebody to say that there will be a good chance of this in the future. Because the way I see it, urban pharmacies are not hiring, but are rural places hiring? I've put in so much into my future as a pharmacist and I really do want to go into this field. But there are always circumstances that determine results: if there are already no more jobs left in even rural places in America, I may have to switch majors or something...I just don't know.

And the Crystal Ball says.......Undecided. On the bright-side, no one has invented the "Cure everything with one pill" pill yet, so your degree will be useful to somebody somewhere for many, many years to come.

Unless of course the world ends in 2012.

 

[awval999]

The answer is: only do to pharmacy if you like the course work and can see yourself as a pharmacist. The career will trail inflation for the foreseeable future. I see wages coming to ~$80k/year in inflation adjusted terms (2012) over next decade even though nominally they will stay >$100K. Honestly ask yourself why you are worth more than a NP or PA. Our wages will equal theirs by 2020. Pharmacy will end up like law. Still good salaries and opportunites but rampant degrees and many graduates not working as a pharmacist. New schools will be looked down upon, etc. Residency/BCPS will be manditory for hospital positions.

 

[Rph888]

I, too, am beginning to seriously seriously consider going into pharmacy school. I just have one question: will I be able to find ANY pharmacist job ANYWHERE in the United States in 5 years? Can somebody make a prediction? And if I don't go into pharmacy, what is a prosperous field to go into? Do IT majors get jobs easily? The way I see it is that nobody in any field is guaranteed a job nowadays. But I just want what I deserve, and lets say I work exceptionally hard in pharmacy school and am part of an organization or two - you know, the average student. Will I have any job at all after I graduate? How about if I do 2 years of residency? Then will I have a job? I just want somebody to say that there will be a good chance of this in the future. Because the way I see it, urban pharmacies are not hiring, but are rural places hiring? I've put in so much into my future as a pharmacist and I really do want to go into this field. But there are always circumstances that determine results: if there are already no more jobs left in even rural places in America, I may have to switch majors or something...I just don't know.

come on quit being so naive.

are you seriously considering paying 4 years pharmacy school tuition to have a chance to compete for a job in the middle of nowhere??

add the fact of increased schools and falling wages?

you want a pgy2?--you know they get laid off before staff hospital and retails right?

your post is what is wrong with pre-pharms. you are willing to bet your future on pharmacy without knowing anything that is really going on.

it may hurt, but at least i care

 

[Rph888]

Residency/BCPS will be manditory for hospital positions.

I dont know about this one. most DOP i talked to came from the BS degree days. they actually are looking more for experience and longevity--they don't want youngins who will job-hop.

but then again this is only in one part of America, and they are all old school

 

[Buk Lau]

come on quit being so naive.

are you seriously considering paying 4 years pharmacy school tuition to have a chance to compete for a job in the middle of nowhere??

add the fact of increased schools and falling wages?

you want a pgy2?--you know they get laid off before staff hospital and retails right?

your post is what is wrong with pre-pharms. you are willing to bet your future on pharmacy without knowing anything that is really going on.

it may hurt, but at least i care

Sooo mister hypocrite, tell me what we should do. There's a lot of people criticizing but nobody is coming up with anything to do. Let me tell you why I want to compete for a pharmacy job in the middle of nowhere: I want to be a pharmacist and I'm smart enough to know that any job in this economy is a good one. Students used to come out of college and immediately enter the workforce. And I'm only 20 years old, it doesn't take someone older than me to know that. This economy can be compared to the Great Depression to some extent. Of course, it's not as severe but The Great Depression can serve as a blueprint for today. Society isn't used to running in this bad of an economy. Therefore, there has to be some type of light at the end of the tunnel, as there usually is and the only place we can go from here is up. Also, the reason for my post was to ask the community what my options are. Instead of holding true to the purpose of this forum, you choose to call me naive, offer stern facts, and leave. Real mature.

 

[Buk Lau]

I thought about it before I applied and I wasn't worried. I'm still not worried. I didn't pick this profession because the job market was lovely 5-10 years ago. If that really is one of your main reasons for choosing pharmacy I'd recommend finding something else.

I agree with exactly what you say. I think on one hand, pre-pharms are afraid to commit to competition during pharmacy school - not that they can't compete, but there's always the chance thaat you'll get the short end of the stick and for no reason at all. You'll work your butt off and still get nothing at the end. That's the scary part. I know I'm willing to get involved from the first day I enter pharmacy school. But before I commit to pharmacy, I can't just say to myself, "Okay I love pharmacy let's go do it." Because there's a reality to it, and the reality is that there may be no jobs. That means we'll be stuck with a lot of money still living at our parents' house, begging for jobs. Nobody wants that after all the hard work. There's plenty of students who go and get their PhD's in the humanities. How many of them have jobs? Very few. They're usually adjuncts at several schools in the area. But they love what they do, and for the jobless, that's okay, they can sit there and love what they do and get paid absolutely nothing for it. That's messed up. I don't want that to be me.

 

[Incitatus]

I think there is still a bright future ahead for many of us. If you know pharmacy, you know what you're getting yourself into, and you have a strong enough drive for this profession, go for it.

There are several complex factors effecting pharmacy right now, not to phrase it into deceptively simple terms of supply and demand.
If you do well, attend a solid residency program, network, and exercise patience and cautious understanding... you'll be fine. No one is going to hand you a sign-on bonus and a job right out the door, but you'll be fine nonetheless.

The job description is changing though, so don't walk into it blind, be prepared by staying informed and well read on what is happening in the field.

 

[CareDD]

I agree with exactly what you say. I think on one hand, pre-pharms are afraid to commit to competition during pharmacy school - not that they can't compete, but there's always the chance thaat you'll get the short end of the stick and for no reason at all. You'll work your butt off and still get nothing at the end. That's the scary part. I know I'm willing to get involved from the first day I enter pharmacy school. But before I commit to pharmacy, I can't just say to myself, "Okay I love pharmacy let's go do it." Because there's a reality to it, and the reality is that there may be no jobs. That means we'll be stuck with a lot of money still living at our parents' house, begging for jobs. Nobody wants that after all the hard work. There's plenty of students who go and get their PhD's in the humanities. How many of them have jobs? Very few. They're usually adjuncts at several schools in the area. But they love what they do, and for the jobless, that's okay, they can sit there and love what they do and get paid absolutely nothing for it. That's messed up. I don't want that to be me.

This, you will be happy as a pharmacist.

 

[xtsukiyox]

Unless of course the world ends in 2012.

If the world ends in 2012, I don't have to pay back my student loans.

Instead of holding true to the purpose of this forum, you choose to call me naive, offer stern facts, and leave. Real mature.

I'm not sure those were all facts. At the very least, it was presented in quite a trollish fashion.

 

[Buk Lau]

If the world ends in 2012, I don't have to pay back my student loans.



I'm not sure those were all facts. At the very least, it was presented in quite a trollish fashion.

Like button

 

[Rph888]

Sooo mister hypocrite, tell me what we should do. There's a lot of people criticizing but nobody is coming up with anything to do. Let me tell you why I want to compete for a pharmacy job in the middle of nowhere: I want to be a pharmacist and I'm smart enough to know that any job in this economy is a good one. Students used to come out of college and immediately enter the workforce. And I'm only 20 years old, it doesn't take someone older than me to know that. This economy can be compared to the Great Depression to some extent. Of course, it's not as severe but The Great Depression can serve as a blueprint for today. Society isn't used to running in this bad of an economy. Therefore, there has to be some type of light at the end of the tunnel, as there usually is and the only place we can go from here is up. Also, the reason for my post was to ask the community what my options are. Instead of holding true to the purpose of this forum, you choose to call me naive, offer stern facts, and leave. Real mature.

hey, i think you are forgetting that i am seriously here to help, not be a jerk.

are you willing to leave friends and family behind for that job in the middle of nowhere? easy to say now, but time changes things. I too was 20 once and thought i knew so much.
there is light at the end of the tunnel, but what is it? how will economic recovery impact pharmacy? i do not think it will help out pharmacist labor that much.

ask for your options, please realize that the demand for pharmacists labor is flat or falling, while supply is increasing rapidly. The same is true for optometry and nursing.

please, dont just disregard my opinion, it is founded in observation and research.

I'm not sure those were all facts. At the very least, it was presented in quite a trollish fashion.

they are all facts i believe, which one can i clarify for you??

 

[xtsukiyox]

ask for your options, please realize that the demand for pharmacists labor is flat or falling, while supply is increasing rapidly. The same is true for optometry and nursing.

Really?

they are all facts i believe, which one can i clarify for you??

Just because you believe them doesn't make them fact. The truth is, in some areas, pharmacy is saturated. In some areas, it isn't. Perhaps we'd react better if you didn't use intentionally inflammatory & deriding language.

Let's start by citing your source stating that everyone will have to move to Podunk, USA to get a job in 4 years.

What's funny is that you're so dead sure you have it right, but you're a pharmacy student just like the rest of us. Perhaps you're trying to scare people out of the field so you have a better shot at a job - it's been done, and by better folks than you. Better work on your communication skills before you get to that point, bro.

 

[babybull]

had the opportunity to speak to four pharmacists yesterday, including two clinical pharmacists, one in narcotics, and a pharmacy supervisor [all from a large city hospital in sf]. they all urged me to enter pharmacy despite the pharmacy job outlook.

the supervisor said a lot of pharmacists would be retiring in 5-7 years, including himself. he said there would be 1-2 open positions [on average] for every pharmacy, or something like that lol.

one more thing: he said i should come talk to him after i finish pharm school!! ^^ networking will never have been more important for new pharmacists who will be trying to find pharmacy jobs.

 

[Rph888]

Really?

Have you heard of allnurses.com?
Do you work with nurses--?
Have you worked in a hospital?
Does USA have enough hospital beds currently? Or are there too many hospitals??


this is 100% serious.
do you know if outpatient prescription growth year over year is positive or negative, and by how much??


Just because you believe them doesn't make them fact. The truth is, in some areas, pharmacy is saturated. In some areas, it isn't. Perhaps we'd react better if you didn't use intentionally inflammatory & deriding language.

Some areas are full, some have vacancies. that is 100% true. what is your opinion of the increasing labor supply? you know mine.


Let's start by citing your source stating that everyone will have to move to Podunk, USA to get a job in 4 years.
Not everyone will have to move. But just look at the number of graduates, that is the key to my thinking.


What's funny is that you're so dead sure you have it right, but you're a pharmacy student just like the rest of us. Perhaps you're trying to scare people out of the field so you have a better shot at a job - it's been done, and by better folks than you. Better work on your communication skills before you get to that point, bro.

Come on, you really think i am trying to scare people to get a better shot at a job???
That is inflammatory.
You think College xyz will say "darn, that kid dropped that seat, lets go from 170 seats to 169. lets lose $80,000-$100,000 in revenue over four years!!"

Im only try to help, with my limited on the ground knowledge that seems so far removed from many others.

 

[Buk Lau]

Come on, you really think i am trying to scare people to get a better shot at a job???
That is inflammatory.
You think College xyz will say "darn, that kid dropped that seat, lets go from 170 seats to 169. lets lose $80,000-$100,000 in revenue over four years!!"

Im only try to help, with my limited on the ground knowledge that seems so far removed from many others.

I don't think you understand how messed up the job market is. Even after thousands of years from our hunter-gatherer past, the same rule of survival of the fittest applies. People who get a job don't give a crap about anybody else. People who don't get a job wonder why nobody is being nice to them. The world can be harsh, so yes, I'm willing to move to the middle of nowhere. Nobody in this job market is safe. There is no magical recession proof job. Therefore, I will go into the career I see best fit for me and do my absolute best to get where I want. You're here to put other people down, buddy. All you can do is criticize, which you have proven so far. You should be more friendly to others who are in the same position as you used to be (admittedly).

 

[jasonkido]

I think it will take a few more years to see how all these new schools and slowed growth in jobs will effect pharmacy jobs. Right now from my experience I can tell you there are still jobs to be had according to a small sample size (30 classmates I know) and my state. I am not sure how it will be in 2016 and beyond. I have had my job for 16 months and I love it and even I hope that there will be plenty of jobs by 2016 just in case I want to be flexible and move. 95% of my classmates are working retail. I am one of the rare ones since I work in the long term care industry. The job expansion depends on retail growth. Its simple as that

 

[babybull]

I think it will take a few more years to see how all these new schools and slowed growth in jobs will effect pharmacy jobs. Right now from my experience I can tell you there are still jobs to be had according to a small sample size (30 classmates I know) and my state. I am not sure how it will be in 2016 and beyond. I have had my job for 16 months and I love it and even I hope that there will be plenty of jobs by 2016 just in case I want to be flexible and move. 95% of my classmates are working retail. I am one of the rare ones since I work in the long term care industry. The job expansion depends on retail growth. Its simple as that

in the meantime, let's keep discouraging students from entering pharmacy =] our job stability relies on it

 

[jasonkido]

in the meantime, let's keep discouraging students from entering pharmacy =] our job stability relies on it

Preaching doom and gloom is not my forte lol. Trust me the thousands of people who are discouraged by this forum will be replaced quickly with promises from the school dean that there will be a 6 figure job waiting for them before they graduate

 

[Rph888]

I don't think you understand how messed up the job market is. Even after thousands of years from our hunter-gatherer past, the same rule of survival of the fittest applies. People who get a job don't give a crap about anybody else. People who don't get a job wonder why nobody is being nice to them. The world can be harsh, so yes, I'm willing to move to the middle of nowhere. Nobody in this job market is safe. There is no magical recession proof job. Therefore, I will go into the career I see best fit for me and do my absolute best to get where I want. You're here to put other people down, buddy. All you can do is criticize, which you have proven so far. You should be more friendly to others who are in the same position as you used to be (admittedly).

i am trying to be friendly by telling you all that i can about pharmacy. i may not be nice, but it is the info that counts.

truly you sound like a hard working fighter. but i believe pharmacy is a sinking ship. if you were my own kid, i would encourage you to look for something better--yes there is no magical recession proof job, but to sign up for pharmacy, go into debt, and move to the middle of nowhere?--i think there are better alternatives!!

I realize i was excessively harsh, but it because i know too much about pharmacy. I know too many laid off pharmacists will families, too many p4 students laid off by their intern employer, too many broken dreams.

I am not here to put people down, but only to share my info. info that i had to learn the hard way.