Are Chiropractors against DOs?

[Bmblee888]

I had an appointment with my chiropractor today, and I asked him what he thinks about osteopathy. He began to tell me that osteopathic manipulation are exactly like chiropractic adjustments. Then he went on to say that DOs have really gotten away from manipulations and now practice more and more like allopathic physicians. He said the bad thing about being a DO is that the MD community does not really "recognize" DOs as physicians while the chiropractic community does not accept DOs as true users of manipulative medicine. He says MDs always refer patients to chiropractors for adjustments, but they never send patients to DOs. It was like he was telling me that DOs are a sham... In the end, he was telling me to forget about DO school and go to chiropractic school. (because according to him, both curriculums were very "similar")

I don't know what to think about what he told me. For some reason I feel I should just disregard his comments. It seems to me that maybe his motives for telling me to go into chiropractics is because he feels threatened by DOs? Do many chiropractors (and other health professionals) really have that negative of an opinion of DOs?

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[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by Bmblee888
He began to tell me that osteopathic manipulation are exactly like chiropractic adjustments.

FALSE

Chiropractors focus on spinal lesions. Osteopathic manipulation can focus on all areas of the body.


Then he went on to say that DOs have really gotten away from manipulations and now practice more and more like allopathic physicians.

TRUE

Many DOs do not use OMM in their practices.


He said the bad thing about being a DO is that the MD community does not really "recognize" DOs as physicians while the chiropractic community does not accept DOs as true users of manipulative medicine.

FALSE

The MD community fully recognizes DOs. As stated above DOs and chiropractors have different approaches to manipulation.



He says MDs always refer patients to chiropractors for adjustments, but they never send patients to DOs.

PARTIALLY TRUE

There are not that many DOs who do solely OMM or use it as a large part of their practice, so this may be the reason for fewer referalls. Chiropractors are a dime a dozen. The DOs who do use manipulation are VERY highly recommended by MDs. There are DOs who use OMM who get referrals from MDs and DOs all the time...sometimes as a last resort when other treatments fail.


It was like he was telling me that DOs are a sham... In the end, he was telling me to forget about DO school and go to chiropractic school. (because according to him, both curriculums were very "similar")

FALSE

The curriculum for chiropractic school does not include any hospital based residency. There is more anatomical focus and manipulation in chiropractic school whereas DO schools have nearly identical curricula to MD schools (with the OMM added in). As a DO you can specialize in any medical field that you choose.


I don't know what to think about what he told me. For some reason I feel I should just disregard his comments. It seems to me that maybe his motives for telling me to go into chiropractics is because he feels threatened by DOs? Do many chiropractors (and other health professionals) really have that negative of an opinion of DOs?

I know chiropractors who have no problem with DOs. I know a chiropractor who works in an office with several DOs. Mutual respect. Of course, the fields are vastly differeny in many ways.

Chiropractic spurred off of Osteopathy in the late 1800's. They don't tell you that at chiropractic school, but the history is well documented and dates don't lie.

There is little negative opinion about DOs outside the premedical community (the most ignorant and loudest voice on these message boards...no offense).

I want to be a DO because I want to be a PHYSICIAN. I want to treat patients MEDICALLY, not just cracking their backs to make them stand straighter.

A well respected DO once told me this. The difference between chiropractors and a DO who does manipulation is that the chiropractor will have you come back repeatedly for periodic "adjustments". This, of course, can span several weeks, months, years. As a DO, if after a few treatments...several months at the most, hopefully...if the patient still needs to see me for the same problem, then I have not done my job.

In other words. DOs use manipulation to treat and hopefully cure an acute or chronic problem. Chiropractors may have some of this intent, but often chiropractors (nearly all that I have been exposed to) recommend repeated visits or visiting when something "acts up".


Do your research.

Best of luck to you.

 

[ItNeverEnds]

As always, JP comes through with a well-informed reply. How's 1st year treating you?

INE

 

[Dr Sum Day]

JP,

You're the informer!!!

 

[s42brown]

LET ME PUT THIS QUESTION TO BED I am currently applying to medical schools, only osteopathic, and have recieved an invite to KCOM and UHS the only schools I applied to. I recieved my undergraduate degree from Logan college, also known as logan college of chiropractic. I was enrolled in the D.C. program and have had all of the adjusting classes aswell as the classes that I took to recieve my B.S. in Human Biology. Trust me the curriculum is nothing like medical school. Most of the time all the students do is bitch about learning physiology and microbiology and pathology, because they don't believe they will ever use it in practice. They simply want to find a subluxation, bone out of place, and fix it. The day I relized that this is how most of my class felt is the day I realized I had made a bad decission. I know have a B.S. and help teach a chem I class at the community college and work as an ER tech at a very large hospital in St. louis. And guess what, there are D.O. who work right along side M.D. and you can't tell them apart. So some chiropractor practicing in his office has absolutetly no clue what the hell is going on in the world of hospital based medicine. I am not bashing chiropractic, I know it works and have many friends that will make a fortune getting people well, however D.O. 's and M.D.'s are interchangabe, I see it everyday. D.C's are a different animal

cutty

 

[Mire]

I just wanted to say thank you for the informed responses on this issue. There is a lot of bashing, and comparisons floating around SDN, but the hard truth is that DC's and DO's serve two completely different purposes in medicine. People don't compare DC's and MD's, so they shouldn't compare DC's and DO's.

 

[Bmblee888]

Thanks for all the response. I had such an icky feeling last night after leaving my chiropractor. I think it's a shame that there is so much bashing among professionals. Why can't everyone just have mutual respect for each other? But I guess that's how the world is...

 

[tlh908]

I attend an osteopathic institution, although I am not in the DO program, and before enrolling I had to go to my MD for a physical. I asked him about osteopathy and chiropractors. He said the two professions are at each other constantly, although he has no problem with either. Just as an aside, he said that he enjoyed having DO's on his rounds during interships. He said that he didn't learn a lot of biomechanics in medical school and really appreciatted the insight that DO's had in the muskular and skeletal systems.

 

[drusso]

Most the time when MDs know about DOs in the community who do OMM, musculoskeletal medicine, and focus on manipulation, they will refer to them over a chiropractor. Of course, there are some very good and ethical chiropractors out there who have marketed themselves well to MDs and DOs and enjoy mutually respectful working relationships. I don't know why DC's tend to downplay DOs---I kind of think its because they're jealous that DOs held on to a full scope of medical practice while DC's gave up a long time ago...

 

[Dr JPH]

Originally posted by ItNeverEnds
As always, JP comes through with a well-informed reply. How's 1st year treating you?

INE

Almost done with the first term!

No more anatomy.

Netter...I will see you next year!

 

[rpames]

This comment is not really what the main topic of this forum is about but it does add to it: I was speaking to a DO prof. and he told me that there is a a group of MD's and DO's that are fight to have the title of Doctor taken way from DC so they can't refer to themselves as such. It is amazing what is going on in medicine right now.

 

[tlh908]

Originally posted by rpames
This comment is not really what the main topic of this forum is about but it does add to it: I was speaking to a DO prof. and he told me that there is a a group of MD's and DO's that are fight to have the title of Doctor taken way from DC so they can't refer to themselves as such. It is amazing what is going on in medicine right now.

Have you ever noticed the difference between MD/DO and chiropractor signs? MD/DO use the convention: John Doe, MD/DO and everyone knows to use the title doctor. Chiropractors use Dr. John Doe because if they just used John Doe, DC no one would call them doctor. So now what about Pharm D.'s? Do they deserve the title of doctor?

 

[SawBones]

Ummmm, do any of you really care what a chiropractor thinks of you? Think about it.

Last I heard, Chiropractors were against everyone in medicine, MDs and DOs. Some local chiropractors have infomercials on television and all they do is bash physicians. That's fine. After seeing radiographs of the damage some of these guys do with their "5 times a week" treatments, I often feel the urge to bash them myself.

C'mon guys, get real. Next thing you'll want to know is if Naturopaths hate us too. Who cares...

 

[Mire]

Has anyone out there heard of ND's? I just received a pamphlet in the mail about this and they refer to themselves as Natropathic Doctors. This kind of erks me. I read their information and in it they refer to themselves as primary care physicians. In addition they claim that they take the same courses that allopathic physicians take, and that their training is virtually the same, except they emphasize some "hollistic" philosophies. They even went on to claim they are licensed to do minor surgery! Although I admit that I don't know alot about Natropathic Medicine, I am almost certain that surgery would be an overstatment of what they are permitted to do. There were more examples that I could quote from the packet, but I might get mad a hit my computer.

I don't have a problem with the fact that these folks are out there. I would support their right to practice in their field of expertise. What seriously bothers me is the misappropriation of the term physician or doctor by ND's or DC's. I can't stand how they refer to themselves as primary care physicians. All this does is confuse patients and the public. I think that the public need to have options available to them, but I don't think that they should be intentionally confused about the kind of training their so called "doctor" can provide. I think that as a future DO student, I am a little more sensitive to the use of these terms because I am constantly explaining to people that DO = MD with the added benefit of OMT. But you wouldn't call a carpenter a plumber just because they both work in construction, so why would you do that in medicine?

 

[Dr JPH]

Take it from someone who has MANY friends who are current practicing pharmacists (with PharmD degrees) or are pharmacy students...using the title "Doctor" is a good bit of what keeps some of them going.

I, personally, don't find anything attractive about the title of Doctor.

It's merely a degree...a professional title.

People make such a big deal about it. "Actually, it's DOCTOR so-and-so."

Who cares.

Sure, I'm sure at first it will be cool to hear someone call me by the name Doctor. But when you think about it...does it make you any different than the person you are now?

I hope not.

 

[maysqrd]

About the ND approach. Yes, in fact some states do allow ND's to perform minor surgeries, i.e. lacerated hand repair, removing a mole, etc. A friend of mine was interested in going to an ND school and was showing me the courseload. It is similar to allopathic and osteopathic coursework in the first two years, however, I don't know the quality of it or the deepth of the science work as I can only report what I saw on paper. There are two schools on the west coast that apparently have very good reputations and they also include accupuncture as part of their curriculum. I was told that the accupuncture was necessary for some of the graduates to be able to practice medicine in some states because not all states recognize the title ND. California for one. So many of them must practice under the accupuncture license.

I didn't understand anything else as there is no residency or interships requirements from what I learned so that may be the reason so many states don't recognize the title. I have been able to sit in on a couple of lectures from a naturopath and from listening to him, I would say they are very similar to homeopaths. Both used herbs, natural products in their medicine practices.

Ultimately the title doctor does not specifically mean it must be a physician. If we wanted to take the title away from everyone that used it who didn't have 4 years of med school plus residency, etc., then my chemistry professors would get really mad since we refer to them as doctors too.

As to the original thread. I don't think all chiropracters are against DO's. My chiropracter was delighted to find out that I was going to be a DO. But, she was also a massage therapist for 11 years before going to chiropractic school so her background helped her to understand the DIFFERENCE between DC and DO.

We also have the best cardiologist in the area and he is a DO. He gets the referral every time, hands down, no competition for this guy because he is a good doctor and no one even talks about the letters after his name. I would kill to see how much money he is making. The nurse I worked with was the first person to even mention that this cardiologist was a DO and only because I told her I was considering the osteopathic school as my first choice. She was really positive and thinks the world of this physician. For that matter, every MD in the area thinks he is an incredible doctor, so much so that they don't even mention that he is an osteopathic physician. To them, he is an equal and in some situtations they consider him a superior. I have watched him work in the ER and he KICKS A--! No way in the world you would get to do what he does with a DC title.

 

[jennij]

Originally posted by JPHazelton

I, personally, don't find anything attractive about the title of Doctor.

It's merely a degree...a professional title.

People make such a big deal about it. "Actually, it's DOCTOR so-and-so."

Who cares.

Funny, I just had this conversation with my mom today..... Her neighbor is a dentist and she was telling me about him correcting her last week saying "It is 'DOCTOR' Marcus." He is a DENTIST! What a *****. If that makes him feel better about himself though, by all means..... I think it would be strange to have people call me by anything else than my first name.....

 

[Yellowman]

It's my first post peeps.....so go easy

You know, it's really interesting how important it is for some people to be called doctors. I honestly don't understand why that title means so much to some of the people here on this board (I've been reading lots of post in the past) and people in med and dental schools. People please......it's just a title. I could understand why some people are proud of their title. Sure, you had to work your butt of to get that MD/DO/DDS, but they really need to get it through their head, that it doesn't make you somehow more superior than others.

It sickens me when people correct you and say, 'no, that doctor so and so', or those people who go to fancy restaraunts and put their name down as doctor X......Just plain tacky I think. Do they really want people to recognize them that much by their title? It they want their recognition and respect, they should think about earning it through their actions, not by going around bragging about their degrees in public places.....or go telling everyone who is willing to listen what letters they have behind their name.

It also erks me that some of us so called health care 'professionals' have to put down providers in other fields to make them feel better/supeior about themselves. We see it all the time! Just look at jennij's previous post where she suggests dentists aren't real doctors. Allopathic med students put down DO's; MD's and DO's alike put down DDS/DMD students; DDS/DMD students put down DC's, podiatrist. It's sad, but it's true. It's so stupid IMHO I would like to see jennij go to her dentist to get a root canal and tell him/her that dentists aren't real doctors because they didn't get into MD/DO schools. I am a dental student myself and I think I deserve to be called dr.choi (when I graduate) because I have mastered the art and science of diagnosing and treating my patient's oral health, not because I have the DDS after my name. If any MD, DO, DC, podiatrist, PharmD walk into my practice and not give me the respect that I deserve as their health care provider, I will gladly show them to the front door!

Just my $0.02

Yellowman

 

[jennij]

Sorry, didn't realize 'dentists' were doctors. My appologies if I offended, but my point was that it is *****ic (and a bit insecure)for anyone to think they are better than anyone else by correcting them by saying "it's DOCTOR to you." This is true whether they are a dentist, chiropractor or neurosuregeon. Notice that you just did the same thing at the end of your post.....

 

[H0mersimps0n]

I was kind of wondering about that contradiction also...

 

[Yellowman]

No offense taken jennij I've heard it billions of times of how dentists aren't real doctors, as I am sure you have heard the same from ignorant people about your decision to become a DO.... of how DO's are allpathic rejects, DO's are second rate to MD's....I have many friends going both MD and DO.....so I understand.

Anyhow, allow me to clarify. First off, I find it strange that you, who is going to be a healthcare professional, didn't know that dentists are doctors. Perhaps not in everyday language, as when people say 'I've got to go to the doctor to get a checkup' as they are usually referring to a physician. But the fact that dentists have spent 4 yrs in graduate school learning about the human body, with the emphasis on the oral cavity and health, makes them a doctor of dentistry IMHO; also our degrees say we are docs, Doctor of Dental Surgery (DDS) Given that, optometrists (OD), podiatrists (PMD) are doctors as well as they are specialists in their own respective fields. Thus, it is possible to be a doctor without having MD/DO behind their name.....kinda like your professors in undergrad.

As for the contradiction...what I meant by my last sentence was that I expect people to respect me as their health care provider, just as I wrote. My patients don't have to call me doctor xx if they don't wish..hell they can call me by my first name if they wish. However, if they walked into my practice and disrespected me by suggesting that I am not a real or even a second rate doctor just because I didn't go to medical school, then it's a different story. I am sure you wouldn't appreciate someone walking away claiming "i want an MD to treat me not a DO. (I''ve actually heard this b4)" I am a doctor of dentistry, not a doctor of medicine. I completely agree with you that telling people to call you doctor is indeed tacky, just as I have written in the previous post. And notice that I said I would like to be respected in my office, not to be called a doctor. The way I see it, I wouldn't walk into an optometrist's office to get contacts and insinuate that he/she is somehow less of a doctor then me just because he didn't go to dental school. That would be silly. I believe he deserves to be called a doctor regardless of his specialty because he has mastered the field of optometry, plain and simple. I wouldn't go to my MD buddies or my DDS buddies to get a routine eye exam....so I will pay the respect that the man deserves.

Sorry for the ramble....it's been a long day at school

 

[AviatorDoc]

It is interesting that people are hung up over the title of doctor. PhDs will often get upset b/c people claim that they are not real doctors.

As it turns out, the original meaning of the word is "teacher," and it had no correlation with the health professions, per se. Those people were called "physicians" and included ANYONE who was in the healing arts. As the health professions moved more into the academic realm (scientific revolution, europe, renaissance times), they were ascribed the title "doctor" as well. Today, John Doe knows "doctor" as someone who fixes them.

Funny story: I was at dinner with some very successful businessmen in a small town. Among them was a cardiologist, a real estate developer, and a construction business owner. They all make good money, and are very good at what they do. At the time, I was applying for med school, so I brought up the medical industry with the cardiologist. This got the construction owner interested, and he began to learn what cardiology was.

"So you do heart surgery?" he asked.

"No, I prescribe medications & refer for surgery if they need it," replied the cardiologist.

"Oh," said the construction owner. "So you don't really save people's lives?"

 

[Dr JPH]

Doctor: "So you work in construction? Do you mix cement and things like that?"

Construction Worker: "No, actually...I build big tall buildings."

Doctor: "Oh...sorta like an insecurity compensation thing."

 

[AviatorDoc]

Just kinda shows that intellingence in one thing does not imply lack of ignorance in another.