Are doctors fairly compensated? (Of course not)

[RJGOP]

I'm sure you know how I feel. Doctors are underpaid and not respected enough. Patient estimates on how much their doctors are being reimbursed are grossly incorrect, and people, despite not knowing how much doctors are makings (specifically per case) think they should decide whether or not docotrs are fairly reimbursed.
This article, at least to me, seems to be written in the tone of "I'm a doctor and I make plenty of money" tone which appeases the general public. However, it at least states some facts. What do you think?

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/08/american-doctors-paid-much-little.html

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[Mehd School]

In my opinion it boils down to the specialty when I think of fair pay. Are most family docs paid what they should be? Of course not. What about the cosmetic dermatologists ... they're probably good.

 

[DermViser]

In my opinion it boils down to the specialty when I think of fair pay. Are most family docs paid what they should be? Of course not. What about the cosmetic dermatologists ... they're probably good.

Just remember the general public does not make a distinction between specialties. Doctor = Rich, period. And no reimbursement for services has considered the lifestyle of the doctor (which wouldn't make sense if the goal is to be objective). Doctors do a lot more that they don't get paid for but still have to do while taking care of patients.

 

[VisionaryTics]

In my opinion it boils down to the specialty when I think of fair pay. Are most family docs paid what they should be? Of course not. What about the cosmetic dermatologists ... they're probably good.

Something about cosmetics...it's pretty much 100% out of pocket.

So when people blame evil plastic surgeons and dermatologists for getting paid too much, it's not the insurance companies' fault. People pay cash for cosmetic surgery and procedures. So don't blame the docs who are "stealing from the public"; blame the public.

If we do a functional septorhinoplasty, insurance will maybe pay for for the septoplasty and valvuloplasty so the patient can breathe again, but the dorsal hump rasping and tip refinement that the patient wanted for cosmetic reasons is 100% out of pocket.

 

[RJGOP]

In my opinion it boils down to the specialty when I think of fair pay. Are most family docs paid what they should be? Of course not. What about the cosmetic dermatologists ... they're probably good.

That is a very fair argument. I was actually speaking comparatively though, which in your defense, I did a poor job of conveying. Considering all of their training and work hours, compared to other specialties, I don't think doctors are fairly reimbursed. Most people just look at the big numbers and say doctors make way more money than almost everyone else. That is the basis of their arguments.

 

[DermViser]

Something about cosmetics...it's pretty much 100% out of pocket.

So when people blame evil plastic surgeons and dermatologists for getting paid too much, it's not the insurance companies' fault. People pay cash for cosmetic surgery and procedures. So don't blame the docs who are "stealing from the public"; blame the public.

If we do a functional septorhinoplasty, insurance will maybe pay for for the septoplasty and valvuloplasty so the patient can breathe again, but the dorsal hump rasping and tip refinement that the patient wanted for cosmetic reasons is 100% out of pocket.

I've never understood the beating up on people who do cosmetics by the general public. Health insurance doesn't pay for that **** and that's not what is contributing to high healthcare costs. It's a separate bucket. You know what does drive up healthcare premiums -- increased mandates like saying a sex change should be covered by medical insurance.

What's contributing a lot to healthcare costs is end-of-life care -- should we start beating up on the Pulmonary/Critical Care doctors for not unplugging every ICU patient. I don't get what the public wants (of course neither do they).

 

[DermViser]

That is a very fair argument. I was actually speaking comparatively though, which in your defense, I did a poor job of conveying. Considering all of their training and work hours, compared to other specialties, I don't think doctors are fairly reimbursed. Most people just look at the big numbers and say doctors make way more money than almost everyone else. That is the basis of their arguments.

That must be why doctors satisfaction is so high - oh wait, it isn't.

 

[Mehd School]

I've never understood the beating up on people who do cosmetics by the general public.

I certainly didn't mean it that way, but by reading a few replies it was perhaps taken that way. I worked with a Dermatologist who did a lot of cosmetics and worked around 32 hours per week on average. She made half a million dollars pre-tax, with a little over half of her income coming from out of pocket cosmetics. She's very good at what she does, perhaps the best in that region of the US. Do I think she was paid fairly? Abso-freaking-lutely. Her husband the pediatrician? Not so much.

I wasn't bashing derm and I certainly wasn't bashing cash only. My apologies if it came across that way.

 

[DermViser]

I certainly didn't mean it that way, but by reading a few replies it was perhaps taken that way. I worked with a Dermatologist who did a lot of cosmetics and worked around 32 hours per week on average. She made half a million dollars pre-tax, with a little over half of her income coming from out of pocket cosmetics. She's very good at what she does, perhaps the best in that region of the US. Do I think she was paid fairly? Abso-freaking-lutely. Her husband the pediatrician? Not so much.

I wasn't bashing derm and I certainly wasn't bashing cash only. My apologies if it came across that way.

Sorry, I wasn't referring to you. I was refrring to the general public who pounds on the derm or plastic surgeon who does 100% cosmetics as somehow the example of the problem. Any specialty that has money paid in cash and not thru a third party payer will make more money than one that does.

 

[Mehd School]

That is a very fair argument. I was actually speaking comparatively though, which in your defense, I did a poor job of conveying. Considering all of their training and work hours, compared to other specialties, I don't think doctors are fairly reimbursed. Most people just look at the big numbers and say doctors make way more money than almost everyone else. That is the basis of their arguments.

Ah, my mistake. Well let this MS1 frothing over with experience and wisdom share his take.

Before I started medical school I thought physicians were paid fairly. Now that I've had a taste of medical school, I don't think they're paid enough. This **** sucks, and I'm giving up my prime years*




*But I also love it and couldn't imagine doing anything else

 

[DermViser]

Ah, my mistake. Well let this MS1 frothing over with experience and wisdom share his take.

Before I started medical school I thought physicians were paid fairly. Now that I've had a taste of medical school, I don't think they're paid enough. This **** sucks, and I'm giving up my prime years*




*But I also love it and couldn't imagine doing anything else

I think expectations are important. Sadly very few matriculating med students entering have realistic expectations.

 

[RJGOP]

Ah, my mistake. Well let this MS1 frothing over with experience and wisdom share his take.

Before I started medical school I thought physicians were paid fairly. Now that I've had a taste of medical school, I don't think they're paid enough. This **** sucks, and I'm giving up my prime years*




*But I also love it and couldn't imagine doing anything else

Edit: I apologize. I thought you were referring to me, not yourself. Sometimes it's hard to understand tone over the Internet. Again, I apologize.

 

[Jabbed]

I think expectations are important. Sadly very few matriculating med students entering have realistic expectations.

Even once you've matriculated, the med school administration will go out of its way to make sure that you don't have realistic expectations of what you're future career entails. #MS3burnout

 

[Jabbed]

I was just stating the facts. Yes, I may not have much experience, but I understand the devotion and work necessary in becoming a doctor. Have I gone through all of it? Of course not. But I can still state the facts and formulate an opinion based off of those facts. But since you have so much more experience than me, please enlighten me, the MS1 frothing with wisdom, on this topic of which I have no understanding.
Not to mention the fact that there are four doctors in my family with whom I regularly speak. I understand what they have and are going through and I listen to their opinion as well.

He was referring to himself as the "ms1 frothing with wisdom."

 

[Apollo1]

It seems that persons critical of physician pay are often not correctly taking into account the amount of education/investment you all had/have to go through. It's difficult to say "I know they've been in school for x years, but..." when the person saying it hasn't actually been through a similar process and correlates the demands of their job with that of a doctor.

*Running back to non-trad now*

 

[Frazier]

Are doctors underpaid? Yes.
Are doctors overpaid? Yes.
Is there bias? Yes.
Does everyone think their own profession is underpaid? Yes.
Does everyone think everyone else's profession is overpaid? Yes.

How much should physicians be paid?

 

[tmn]

I was just stating the facts. Yes, I may not have much experience, but I understand the devotion and work necessary in becoming a doctor. Have I gone through all of it? Of course not. But I can still state the facts and formulate an opinion based off of those facts. But since you have so much more experience than me, please enlighten me, the MS1 frothing with wisdom, on this topic of which I have no understanding.
Not to mention the fact that there are four doctors in my family with whom I regularly speak. I understand what they have and are going through and I listen to their opinion as well.

Pretty sure dude was talking about himself.

 

[RJGOP]

He was referring to himself as the "ms1 frothing with wisdom."

Pretty sure dude was talking about himself.

Yeah, I think you guys are correct. I apologize. Sometimes it's hard to convey, and then understand what someone is conveying over the Internet. My fault for not clarifying however.

 

[Snoopy2006]

I think it's obvious why the public bashes cosmetic procedures: the prices are criticized by those who can't afford them. That's the general argument I've seen from the average Schmo. "Can you believe he charged $800 to zap me with a laser? It took him seven minutes!!" Most people that I've talked to don't tie it into rising healthcare costs or the overall systemic problems, they're more just irritated because they see what seems to be an "easy" procedure (e.g. laser cosmetics) and what in their minds is an enormous price tag.

It's overly simplistic thinking, but that's my anecdotal experience in speaking with people.

 

[RJGOP]

I think it's obvious why the public bashes cosmetic procedures: the prices are criticized by those who can't afford them. That's the general argument I've seen from the average Schmo. "Can you believe he charged $800 to zap me with a laser? It took him seven minutes!!" Most people that I've talked to don't tie it into rising healthcare costs or the overall systemic problems, they're more just irritated because they see what seems to be an "easy" procedure (e.g. laser cosmetics) and what in their minds is an enormous price tag.

It's overly simplistic thinking, but that's my anecdotal experience in speaking with people.

Yeah, I agree with you. Most people who who bash cosmetic physicians are the ones who can't afford those procedures in the first place. The costs of those procedures shouldn't be their priority. They are, after all, just cosmetic,(not bashing cosmetic just saying not necessary for them) which they do not need.

 

[Hemorrage]

What i fail to understand about american society is the lack of respect for people who want to reap the benefits of their hard work. Sure, the playing field isn't even and medical school admissions do indirectly favor applicants that have financial advantages; however, most if not all medical schools offer incentives and aid to those who can’t afford it. That being said, money can never improve one’s intellect. Enormous amounts of money can help less intelligent but rich individuals get past the exams they need but even then that’s debatable and on a side note, why would said individuals even pursue medicine then? I’d even go as far to argue that intelligent parents don’t exactly breed unintelligent children very often.

Sure everyone can gang up on the dermatologists and plastic surgeons that make the most money in medicine and say they shouldn’t make that much, but why not? They worked hard to get there. Most of the highest paying specialties either require a quantity of hours the typical american will refuse to work OR are so competitive and specialized that only the brightest and hardest working in a given medical school class stands a chance of entering training for. This is a comparison made within a group of people that are already some of the brightest and hardest working minds in society today. Do you think the average american spent years volunteering in homeless shelters or caring about helping the underprivileged gain access to healthcare? No. They spend their time enjoying their lives, thinking about the next pair of shoes or car they’re going to buy.

So back to my original point, the lack of respect for hard work is pathetic. The top tier doctors get paid the most because they almost undoubtedly were some of the best in their medical school class. Doctors in general get paid more than the average american because of the simple fact that they put in years of work to get where they are. Work that most people are unwilling to put in.

The amount of bashing of doctor’s salaries in the media is the direct result of a lack of camaraderie in this profession. Instead of holding the line and helping educate the public, we have benedict arnolds that join prominent media outlets (because of a fat paycheck undoubtedly) and then bash their own. In addition to this you have the self righteous hipster journalists in their 20’s that haven’t likely needed real medical care yet.

We need a renaissance.

 

[zegrated]

So back to my original point, the lack of respect for hard work is pathetic. The top tier doctors get paid the most because they almost undoubtedly were some of the best in their medical school class. Doctors in general get paid more than the average american because of the simple fact that they put in years of work to get where they are. Work that most people are unwilling to put in.

The day people admit this is the day hell freezes over. It's much easier for them to whine whine whine while never acknowledging that someone became more successful because they worked harder than them.

 

[tima]

I like the money pic in the article. Does that pic carry more swag than my current avatar? If so, I gotta update my avatar asap.