treasure_yourself

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So my brother is a lawyer and he knows a few people who graduated from law school but are not lawyers (because law schools don't control their numbers). Additionally, my dad is a professor at a pharmacy school and he says there are lots of students now who graduate but can't find jobs. Will DOs have this problem?
 

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No. Lawyers have a hard time finding jobs due to saturation. Physicians may have this problem in many many many years but for now, a shortage of primary care physicians justifies the recent opening of many schools.

Edit: To add to this, residencies are the true bottleneck for practicing physicians. While school numbers may grow, residency spots remain nearly the same and the demand is still there.
 
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So my brother is a lawyer and he knows a few people who graduated from law school but are not lawyers (because law schools don't control their numbers). Additionally, my dad is a professor at a pharmacy school and he says there are lots of students now who graduate but can't find jobs. Will DOs have this problem?
No. The placement rate for DOs matches MDs.
 
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Natural Killer Cell

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So my brother is a lawyer and he knows a few people who graduated from law school but are not lawyers (because law schools don't control their numbers). Additionally, my dad is a professor at a pharmacy school and he says there are lots of students now who graduate but can't find jobs. Will DOs have this problem?
Why would DOs not be guaranteed, but MDs would? If there's job market saturation, it would affect everyone.

Are DOs stuck to sucky places to live? Or do they have the chance to work in any city/place
No, DOs can't practice within a 200 mile radius of any town above 50,000 people. They also can't practice south of the Mason-Dixon line. /s
 
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Goro

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Are DOs stuck to sucky places to live? Or do they have the chance to work in any city/place
Just google "Physicians" in any major city and see how many DOs come up.

While DOs gravitate to Primary care and are more likely to end up in rural areas, most of them end up in cities and suburbs.

Let me ask you this though. If you only chance to be a doctor was to practice in, say Kalispell, MT, Elmira, NY, or Jonesboro, AR, would you do it?
 
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treasure_yourself

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Why would DOs not be guaranteed, but MDs would? If there's job market saturation, it would affect everyone.



No, DOs can't practice within a 200 mile radius of any town above 50,000 people. They also can't practice south of the Mason-Dixon line.
Because the MD requirements are a lot higher.
Also, I read somewhere that it's hard for DOs to practice in large cities.
I live near a major city, and when I go onto their university hospital's websites, there aren't an overwhelming amount of DOs.
 
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treasure_yourself

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Just google "Physicians" in any major city and see how many DOs come up.

While DOs gravitate to Primary care and are more likely to end up in rural areas, most of them end up in cities and suburbs.

Let me ask you this though. If you only chance to be a doctor was to practice in, say Kalispell, MT, Elmira, NY, or Jonesboro, AR, would you do it?
Not sure. I am not white, so I would feel uncomfortable in a rural all-white town. This is just the truth and my experience.
 

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Because the MD requirements are a lot higher.
Also, I read somewhere that it's hard for DOs to practice in large cities.
I live near a major city, and when I go onto their university hospital's websites, there aren't an overwhelming amount of DOs.
Sure, if you want to go to a prestigious place. But there are several DO schools whose average GPA/MCAT are on par, if not higher, than some MD schools. DOs only comprise like 10% of all practicing physicians, so you shouldn't expect to find them everywhere.

Here in MI, there's a high concentration of DOs practicing in Southeast Michigan across Metro Detroit, which has some very nice suburbs for living.
 

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Because the MD requirements are a lot higher.
Also, I read somewhere that it's hard for DOs to practice in large cities.
I live near a major city, and when I go onto their university hospital's websites, there aren't an overwhelming amount of DOs.
1. Doesn't matter what the requirements are. In the end, they are both licensed physicians.
2. It's "harder" for D.O.'s to match into the more competitive specialties, which are often times, in larger cities. It's still very possible to work in a large city in a competitive specialty as a D.O., though.
3. D.O.'s comprise of only 10-20% of the physician workforce. That's why its harder to find them. They do exist, though. It's like trying to find a white guy in China.

Not sure. I am not white, so I would feel uncomfortable in a rural all-white town. This is just the truth and my experience.
I am not white, but I feel very comfortable in a rural all-white town. I'm sorry you had an unfortunate experience though.
 
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treasure_yourself

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1. Doesn't matter what the requirements are. In the end, they are both licensed physicians.
2. It's "harder" for D.O.'s to match into the more competitive specialties, which are often times, in larger cities. It's still very possible to work in a large city in a competitive specialty as a D.O., though.
3. D.O.'s comprise of only 10-20% of the physician workforce. That's why its harder to find them. They do exist, though. It's like trying to find a white guy in China.



I am not white, but I feel very comfortable in a rural all-white town. I'm sorry you had an unfortunate experience though.
Why are the requirements so low though for DO?
I literally have had craptons of MD rejections but buttloads of DO interviews. What gives.
 
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SLU Student

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Why are the requirements so low though for DO?
I literally have had craptons of MD rejections but buttloads of DO interviews. What gives.
I believe that the primary reason is because the D.O. degree is still fairly new. "Osteopathy" only began in the United States near the turn of the 20th century.

Look at the MD requirements and matriculation statistics for applicants 10-20 years ago. It was A LOT lower. Also, look at the rising MCAT/GPA averages for D.O. matriculates over the past years; it's rising like crazy.

I believe that the only reason for this disparity in stats is due to time.
 

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Sure, if you want to go to a prestigious place. But there are several DO schools whose average GPA/MCAT are on par, if not higher, than some MD schools. DOs only comprise like 10% of all practicing physicians, so you shouldn't expect to find them everywhere.

Here in MI, there's a high concentration of DOs practicing in Southeast Michigan across Metro Detroit, which has some very nice suburbs for living.
I have volunteered at many of the prestigious hospitals in the Los Angeles area and in each one I have shadowed DOs- from Internal Medicine to Emergency Medicine to Surgery. at Cedars, UCLA (ronald reagan medical center) and County...
 
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treasure_yourself

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I believe that the primary reason is because the D.O. degree is still fairly new. "Osteopathy" only began in the United States near the turn of the 20th century.

Look at the MD requirements and matriculation statistics for applicants 10-20 years ago. It was A LOT lower. Also, look at the rising MCAT/GPA averages for D.O. matriculates over the past years; it's rising like crazy.

I believe that the only reason for this disparity in stats is due to time.
It's true. I have definitely noticed that too.
Even looking at the 2013 MD matriculants, the average MCATs were like 30-31 for the top 20 schools.
 

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DOs can and do practice in all specialties in all areas of the US.

I know this comes off as a shocker to many on SDN but a lot of people, both MD and DOs, actually want to do primary care and actually want to live in underserved areas to practice. Indeed, some variant of this is in the mission statement of most DO schools, and was a foundational reasoning behind their founding in the past, and currently. I was fortunate enough to shadow two DOs who completely bought into this, as well as one who did not and currently a surgical attending at a top teaching hospital. Again, DOs do everything, everywhere.

There are several newer schools with lower stats, but many of the "established" DO schools have stats on par with several MD.

If you have a huge problem with the letters behind your name, give your seat (if you're accepted) to someone who wants to be a physician.
 

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I have volunteered at many of the prestigious hospitals in the Los Angeles area and in each one I have shadowed DOs- from Internal Medicine to Emergency Medicine to Surgery. at Cedars, UCLA (ronald reagan medical center) and County...
Absolutely. I was addressing OP's question about why some MD school requirements (assuming GPA/MCAT here) are a lot higher, and that those tend to be well known institutions. But that gap also holds true among MD schools (since several have lower stats than the "top" DOs). Heck, in DO, there's a gap between the "established" and the new schools.
 
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treasure_yourself

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DOs can and do practice in all specialties in all areas of the US.

I know this comes off as a shocker to many on SDN but a lot of people, both MD and DOs, actually want to do primary care and actually want to live in underserved areas to practice. Indeed, some variant of this is in the mission statement of most DO schools, and was a foundational reasoning behind their founding in the past, and currently. I was fortunate enough to shadow two DOs who completely bought into this, as well as one who did not and currently a surgical attending at a top teaching hospital. Again, DOs do everything, everywhere.

There are several newer schools with lower stats, but many of the "established" DO schools have stats on par with several MD.

If you have a huge problem with the letters behind your name, give your seat (if you're accepted) to someone who wants to be a physician.
I do not care about the letters behind my name so long as I have the same exact opportunities, job stability, and salary as MDs. Hence, the point of this thread.
 
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I do not care about the letters behind my name so long as I have the same exact opportunities, job stability, and salary as MDs. Hence, the point of this thread.
DOs have the same exact everything that you have mentioned.

I should note that, if you're looking at average salary, DO is likely to show a lower overall salary. This is because a majority of DOs enter primary care whereas a majority of MDs do not. In every individual field, pay is virtually identical.
 

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This thread though

Edit: Short answer = yes.

Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 

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Coltuna

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Lol you're an active member of SDN and you say it's the most SDN thread you've ever seen? Lol, okay.
Oh no, I wasn't poking fun at you! It's a legitimate question. I was poking fun at the responses.
 

Goro

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Which DO schools are the established schools?
I could not tell because DO does not have an MSAR.
Go into Wiki and look up "medical schools in the US"
This will give you a list of all MD and DO schools, and the dates they were established.

I consider schools that are over five-seven years old to be "established".
 

AnatomyGrey12

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Because the MD requirements are a lot higher
Not necessarily, you might want to distinguish between "requirements" and "averages"

I live near a major city, and when I go onto their university hospital's websites
Well that's s problem, yeah the University of X hospital will most likely not have a ton of DOs as few DOs work in academics.
Why are the requirements so low though for DO?
Again, averages vs. requirements

Which DO schools are the established schools?
I could not tell because DO does not have an MSAR.
Do a SDN search. State schools>older schools> Most everyone else > brand new schools/LUCOM

A little more nuanced than that but do a search and you'll be an idea.
so long as I have the same exact opportunities, job stability, and salary as MDs
Depends on what you mean by "opportunities". You want to do ortho at HSS? Not happening (I would most likely be right even if you went to a MD school). However every field is open to DOs with the right residency application, it's dependent on you and how good of a medical student you are. Pay is not dependent on degree, it's a factor of field, location, hours put in, etc.
 
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thepoopologist

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So my brother is a lawyer and he knows a few people who graduated from law school but are not lawyers (because law schools don't control their numbers). Additionally, my dad is a professor at a pharmacy school and he says there are lots of students now who graduate but can't find jobs. Will DOs have this problem?
For the future, who knows. You're on your own
 

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If you are decent at whatever you do and can form full sentences with the words that come out of your mouth you should never be unemployed for long periods in most reasonable fields. Employee engagement is so low tons of people suck at their jobs.

I've worked in several fields prior to med school. While anecdotal, it's hard to find good employees. Unless your the government bc they don't care rofl rofl


Be good at your craft and you should be employed. And don't piss people off. Everybody matters even if you think you'll never see them again
 
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My wife and I, who are both DOs, received dozens of job offers as residents at ACGME accrediated programs.
 

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Don't worry about finding a job. If you graduate from medical school on time, finish residency with no major outstanding issues, and pass your boards on the first attempt you will have a job. Even if you struggle on one of these three things you'll likely get a job, but maybe not in a competitive spot. There are so many shortages in rural areas getting work is not an issue. I finished my internal medicine residency in June and even though I never applied for a single job (I'm now in a cardiology fellowship) I get offers each week for primary care outpatient and hospitalist positions. I've actually thought about taking a very part time hospitalist position next year when my work load is a little lighter and doing a few shifts a month.

Get into school... any school, work hard, push forward, jobs will be there.
 
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fldoctorgirl

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Don't worry about finding a job. If you graduate from medical school on time, finish residency with no major outstanding issues, and pass your boards on the first attempt you will have a job. Even if you struggle on one of these three things you'll likely get a job, but maybe not in a competitive spot. There are so many shortages in rural areas getting work is not an issue. I finished my internal medicine residency in June and even though I never applied for a single job (I'm now in a cardiology fellowship) I get offers each week for primary care outpatient and hospitalist positions. I've actually thought about taking a very part time hospitalist position next year when my work load is a little lighter and doing a few shifts a month.

Get into school... any school, work hard, push forward, jobs will be there.
Just curious: are you a DO?

I ask because one of the fields I'm interested in is cardiology.
 
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