Are malignant attendings common in ophtho?

[rocketbooster]

Having a terrible experience in my gyn onc rotation right now (first OR experience as well)...I wanted to do ophtho for its combo of clinic and surgical work. The gyn onc attendings in the OR here are the biggest *******s. Just verbally abuse you the entire time and make you feel like dirt.

I always got the feeling that ophtho is more laid back but I haven't helped on any ophtho surgeries yet with attendings. How would you describe your general ophtho surgeon? Malignant, laid back, in the middle? I don't know if I can handle being in a malignant environment for 3+ years of residency, so I'm starting to fear anything surgical now. Please expand on the ophtho surgical personality. Thanks.

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[ophthope]

There are times in all surgical subspecialties where the OR gets really tense and surgeons can be abrasive, but it is a very stressful environment. However from what I've seen Ophthalmology attendings are much, much more composed than say your general surgeon or orthopods or ob/gyn. "Laid back" may be a confusing term - they are serious about their surgeries, but they aren't abusive about it and instead are generally fun to be in surgery with and they make it a great learning environment. ENT is similar but not AS laid back. Of course this varies heavily from program to program but as a general rule Ophthalmology is a much more friendly and less malignant field when it comes to attendings. ENT and I think Urology may be similar in that respect.

-That's just my sample size of 1 though, so take any other posts here into consideration.

 

[OphthoQuestions]

We are much nicer for a few reasons!

1) We get more sleep than ObGyns. Getting enough rest makes anyone be in a happier mood. ObGyns are notorious for irregular sleep schedules from being called in the middle-of-the-night. Stressful situations + poor sleep == bad mood!

2) Our surgeries are shorter and more fun. I don't think there are many procedures in Medicine that offer so much instant gratification as those in Ophthalmology. We make people see better in less time than a Seinfeld episode! Compare that experience with your typical 4-5 hour GynOnc surgery!

3) Our surgery patients are AWAKE! Therefore, we can't curse out the lowly med students scrubbed in with us, without disturbing our patients Also, we don't need that much assistance during surgery besides watering the cornea, priming the machines, or handing us instruments. I remember assisting on gastric bypass surgeries and being elbow deep retracting until my fingers were numb.

4) We don't have to step foot into the hospital. I think one of the best attributes of Ophthalmology is our ability to run a business completely separate from the hospital. We don't have to round on patients before clinic, or later after clinic. We can get home by 4:30 pm if we choose (of course sacrificing some $$).

5) For the most part, Ophthalmology is CLEAN. We don't have to do "whiff tests" for Trichomonas or lymph node exams down deep in sweaty armpits with caked-up old deodorant (yes, I had to do that as an intern).

Seriously, if you want nice people, choose Ophthalmology (or something like Dermatology).

 

[Eyesore]

Another reason we are in a better mood in the OR?

We are sitting down when we operate.

 

[Hemichordate]

Another reason we are in a better mood in the OR?

We are sitting down when we operate.

For all surgeries?

 

[ophthope]

For all surgeries?

NLD probes and oculoplastics procedures notwithstanding... pretty much I think!

 

[jsh1986]

I think sitting is actually worse if you're on long cases, such as in retina. I get incredibly cramped and sore from having to sit nearly motionless at the microscope for long periods of time!

Another reason we are in a better mood in the OR?

We are sitting down when we operate.

 

[Dusn]

I would imagine that in any microsurgical field, the operating surgeons are more composed in the OR. Getting emotional increases your tremor and can seriously negatively impact your surgical abilities. Ophtho attendings are usually very aware of the importance of remaining calm. This doesn't mean that they're really nice or that they are going to be willing to go out of their way to help you out. (Although they are usually nicer than ob-gyn or gen surg -- not a difficult accomplishment)

Also, ophtho residents and attendings will rarely get mad at medstudents b/c there's very little a medstudent can do to help in ophtho, so what's the point of getting mad at them? If anything, you'll encounter indifference to you in the eye clinic -- which may actually be worse. The surgical, ob-gyn, medicine residents actually have learned to rely on you to help get their work done and so will get mad at you if you're not being helpful.

 

[Shnurek]

I think most people that enter the eye-care field are self-selected and are not gunning for the $$$. They seem to enjoy helping people see better and the lifestyles are great.

 

[MstaKing10]

common...no. Are there a few, of course but they are the exception rather than the rule. In general, we are an easy going bunch not interested in making enemies but rather making friends. I think the self selection mentioned above really does hold true. Where you'll find some of the angrier docs will be in academic institutions among the older docs. I think this holds true for most fields though.

 

[DoctwoB]

t)

Also, ophtho residents and attendings will rarely get mad at medstudents b/c there's very little a medstudent can do to help in ophtho, so what's the point of getting mad at them? If anything, you'll encounter indifference to you in the eye clinic -- which may actually be worse. The surgical, ob-gyn, medicine residents actually have learned to rely on you to help get their work done and so will get mad at you if you're not being helpful.

This.

I'd personally rather be yelled at for screwing up then not given any responsibility to begin with.

 

[rocketbooster]

This.

I'd personally rather be yelled at for screwing up then not given any responsibility to begin with.

I see your point, but after being yelled at constantly by this attending over and over, it just made me despise him and not want to help him. I honestly let it affect me too much and felt worthless afterward. My already only mediocre confidence was shot down to 0. The first few days of this past week were awful for me, but I rebounded towards the end when I saw him treat other students/residents/staff in the same way. It was more his impatience and poor communication that were the main problem.

Anyways, thanks for your everyone's reassuring posts. Ophtho seems like a good fit if it's that laid back. Also, I worked with one of his partners later in the week, and she was nothing like him. She was very patient, kind, actually interested in who I was, and taught me things in the OR. So even gyn onc isn't all bad unlike my first impression after only having that jerk.

 

[ArgusPanoptes]

I see your point, but after being yelled at constantly by this attending over and over, it just made me despise him and not want to help him. I honestly let it affect me too much and felt worthless afterward. My already only mediocre confidence was shot down to 0. The first few days of this past week were awful for me, but I rebounded towards the end when I saw him treat other students/residents/staff in the same way. It was more his impatience and poor communication that were the main problem.

Anyways, thanks for your everyone's reassuring posts. Ophtho seems like a good fit if it's that laid back. Also, I worked with one of his partners later in the week, and she was nothing like him. She was very patient, kind, actually interested in who I was, and taught me things in the OR. So even gyn onc isn't all bad unlike my first impression after only having that jerk.

I am glad you were able to rebound. Unfortunately, these miserable attendings are everywhere. They really should not be allowed to teach. Even in ophthalmology, I had an oculoplastics teacher that was the same way - thanks to her, I refuse to do any eyelid work. Keep your head held high, realize you are NOT worthless, and do your best. I wish I could say these attendings are like Chef Gordon Ramsay, yelling at you to motivate you to rise to the occasion. Unfortunately, I know all too well that the reality is much more likely that they are miserable people and are taking it out on you. The best revenge here is to be successful in spite of them. When you are an attending, feel free to yell at them should you come across them again. I can tell you from experience that doing that is very cathartic though, you may be better off taking the high road.