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are they MD's or DO's

Discussion in 'Pre-Medical - DO' started by dannyboy1, Dec 17, 2008.

  1. dannyboy1

    10+ Year Member

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    I've noticed that a few doctors in my area advertise themselves as MD;DO. what exactly does that mean ?
     
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  3. Semicolon

    Semicolon OMS II
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    That's an MD that went through osteopathic manipulative training.

    At least I'm pretty sure that's what was explained to me.
     
  4. jp104

    jp104 Member
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    NYCOM has a Emigre Physician program where foreign MDs complete all 4 years with the other DO students. Upon graduation they are awarded the DO degree and go through the match as a US grad, but they can use their MD designation from their foreign degree.
     
  5. Chocolate Bear

    Chocolate Bear Moderizzle Fo'Shizzle!
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    You don't get awarded degree letters for that--just continuing medical education credits and the ability to use your hands more and maybe broaden your practice.
     
  6. dozitgetchahi

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    That seems a bit shifty to me. I would think that the only true "MD, DO" would be a physician who posesses both degrees (A.T. Still, oddly enough, is one of the few examples of this I can think of off the top of my head). Otherwise I would think this practice would have to be as illegal as a DO using the initials MD after his name. As the system stands these days, the two degrees are separate; learning some OMM doesn't turn somebody's MD degree into a DO degree, and the licensing processes are even seperate (i.e., if I remember correctly, DOs have to take the COMLEX to be licensed as a DO, even though they can take the USMLE also).
     
  7. Dissected

    Dissected All bleeding stops eventually
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    This is probably more likely
     
  8. Semicolon

    Semicolon OMS II
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    My apologies. It was mostly a guess based on what I've heard.

    Yes, that does seem more likely than my explanation.
     
  9. Eudjinn

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    bingo. a bunch in my area as well and my doctor happens to be one of them.
     
  10. TexasTriathlete

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    Someone who enjoys pain enough to go through med school twice. Often, they will also have DC, DDS, JD, MS, MA, MPH, and MBA after their name too. And CSCS.
     
  11. dozitgetchahi

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    Aha, that makes more sense.
     
  12. Chocolate Bear

    Chocolate Bear Moderizzle Fo'Shizzle!
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    A lifetime of regurgitating and forgetting, since the grand total would be around 32 years of school, plus 18 to get through high school.

    50 y/o male with Hx of chronic schooling, $1.2M in debt, and doesn't seem to be knowledgeable about anything.

    :thumbup::idea::scared:
     
  13. Dissected

    Dissected All bleeding stops eventually
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    I wonder if they could make up their own specialty field
     
  14. simpleman

    simpleman Member
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    I wanna be one of them!!!!! :D i know i am ******ed, but i love school!
     
  15. dannyboy1

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    what exactly would be the legal ramifications of aDO using MD on their office (you see this quite a bit on lab coats and name tags)
     
  16. Chocolate Bear

    Chocolate Bear Moderizzle Fo'Shizzle!
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    I've never actually read the law and am kinda interested to see what it says. In other fields, it would be a bigger deal, as practice rights would come into play for a B.A. vs. M.S. vs. PhD in Psychology. So they probably have a law that says you can't misrepresent your credentials like that.

    However, the practice rights are the same, in this case, so I doubt any legal ramifications would be very steep, if one were convicted.

    I'd love to see some evidence if anyone's bored and decides to look it up. I'll do something else with my 10 minutes and check back later. :D
     
  17. JaggerPlate

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    misrepresentation ... if someone reports it to the state board you are fined, people can look up your license number and see you falsely represented yourself, you look dishonest, shady, like an idiot ... etc. There was a thread a while ago here on SDN where a DO plastic surgeon in Chicago was putting MD behind stuff and some clown on here reported him and stuff was quickly changed on his website. It's different if you work at a hospital and for coding purposes your name tag says 'MD,' that's nothing you can help and you are a physician in that hospital so it's fine ... I'm pretty sure the coat should say DO though. Altogether, don't do it ... don't think about it, etc. If you don't want the DO behind your name ... go to an MD school, plain and simple. However, the bottom line is that you have a doctorate in osteopathic medicine, not allopathic medicine and as absurd as the distinctions are ... you still have to properly represent yourself.
     
  18. dannyboy1

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    yeah, but i think if someone making name tags labeled an MD as a DO, they would hear about it, and quickly.
     
  19. Dissected

    Dissected All bleeding stops eventually
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    haha, probably true.
     
  20. Semicolon

    Semicolon OMS II
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    I can imagine that.

    "What the hell?! I'm not the Director of Operations!"
     
  21. JaggerPlate

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    Hahah ... without a doubt. Those allopaths are touchy.
     
  22. digitlnoize

    digitlnoize Rock God
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    My guess is that it's a DO, that's just trying to make sure that people understand that they're a doctor.

    In certain areas (like where I'm from), no one knows what a DO is. If they saw it in the phone book, they might refrain from calling simply out of ignorance/confusion.

    I think a large percentage of cases like this are due to this fact. I don't care what the initials are after my name, but if I own my own practice, I'll make darn sure that I make it clear that DO = MD.

    This whole problem would be solved by House coming out of the closet and revealing that he is really a DO.
     
  23. singinfifi

    singinfifi Professional Insomniac
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    Woah! I'd best not forget my OMM! I don't wanna wind up as an MD!

    (hehe. sorry. bad joke....i'm a little "round the bend" from studying for my anatomy final)
     
  24. chemnerd89

    chemnerd89 In it for the lulz
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    House went to Hopkins. :D
     
  25. group_theory

    group_theory EX-TER-MIN-ATE!'
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    In addition to foreign MDs who went to osteopathic schools here, there is another crop (albeit smaller) who can claim MD,DO

    They are allopathic physicians who receive training in a school of osteopathy in another country (England, France, Australia, etc) and received the Diplomate of Osteopathy. They are entitled to use the designation "DO". The thrend for European physicians (especially German physicians) to learn osteopathic manipulation is actually growing (with some european physicians coming to the US to see how US DOs practice OMM and learn)



    As for the legal ramification of advertising oneself as a MD instead of a DO, some state medical board's rules and regulation may require that one advertise oneself as a DO. State medical boards have been known to send letters to DOs telling them of this obligation (and that their license may be subject to restriction, suspension, termination, etc). If a state board takes action against you, your name will be published in the state board's newsletter in the section where they list all the physicians that the board have taken action against.

    Plus it will make your life miserable since almost every application for licensure, hospital priviledges, malpractice insurance, HMO/PPO, Medicare/Medicaid, etc all ask if you have ever had any action taken against you by a state medical board (and if yes, attach a lengthly letter explaining)



    For example - the rules & regulations governing osteopathic physicians in Pennsylvania are

    http://www.pacode.com/secure/data/049/chapter25/chap25toc.html
    [SIZE=+1]§ 25.212. [/SIZE]Professional advertising.


    (a) Advertising in any medium is permitted if it is not misleading, deceptive, untrue or fraudulent on its face or by its effect in actual practice.
    (b) Advertising, letterhead, publications or transmissions shall designate or indicate the licensee’s school of medical practice by the term ‘‘D.O.,’’ ‘‘doctor of osteopathy,’’ ‘‘osteopathic physician’’ or ‘‘osteopathic physician and surgeon.’’

    Authority
    The provisions of this § 25.212 issued under section 16 of the Osteopathic Medical Practice Act (63 P.S. § 271.16); and section 902(b) of the Health Care Services Malpractice Act (40 P. S. § 1301.902(b)).
     
  26. NurWollen

    NurWollen Strong with the Force
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    Has any one read about how back in the 60's, CA banned DO schools and offered all the DO's in the state an MD degree for a small fee and a short seminar? I'm not sure if any of those docs are still in practice, but maybe ten years ago they still were. What I wanna know is if one of those 1960's CA DO's that had their degree changed were in practice today, or even bacl in the 80's or 90's, would they still be able to go as an MD? Would they still be able to go as a DO?
     
  27. digitlnoize

    digitlnoize Rock God
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    We had 1 lecture on the history of DO's at the beginning of the year...I didn't take notes on it, so this may be slightly inaccurate, but...

    The California DO school (Pacific Sanitarium and School of Osteopathic Medicine :eek:) at the time was changed to an MD school and all their degrees were switched to MD degrees for a $65 fee.

    The DO-->MD school is still open, it's called the University of California - Irvine.

    So, I think the people who had their letters changed would go by MD...but maybe not...
     
  28. cyclohexanol

    cyclohexanol No, no. Doggie afuera.
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    The California Medical Association and California Osteopathic Association agreed to a merger in the early 60s. In 1962, there was a general election in which a REFERENDUM (meaning it was already PASSED by the state), proposition 22, was placed on the ballot to 'officially' seal the deal by the voters. It passed by a landslide (3,092,800 yes : 1,314,906 no).

    The text of the law shut down the osteopathic licensing board in California such that NO NEW DOs could become licensed to practice in the state. Existing DOs could EITHER 1) keep their DO degree and continue practicing or 2) pay $65 and attend a short seminar and be licensed as MDs. Of the 2,250 practicing DOs, all but 400 switched and about 122 retired or left the state. The state was left with 278 practicing DOs. The law also provided that the College of Osteopathic Physicians and Surgeons (formerly Pacific Sanitarium and School of Osteopathic Medicine) become UC Irvine School of Medicine.

    As a result of the law, no new DOs could be licensed to practice medicine in the state. If you graduated from PCOM in 1964, it was impossible for you to come to CA and practice, which is a civil rights and equal protection violation. This was the entire premise of the lawsuit that overturned the law in 1974. In 1974 the osteopathic board of examiners was re-instated and things went back to the way they were, with the exception of UC Irvine.

    Now you know your history.

    Having said that, and as I've said before regarding the case... just because the law failed doesn't mean the idea is fundamentally flawed, it could simply mean that the law was poorly written. I'm not sure that having two 'separate but equal' examining boards in the state breeds efficiency or standards of quality control. In fact, I'm sure it does not. Currently both boards receive money from the California general fund. Granted, the osteopathic board receives much less (1.5mil/yr) than the allopathic board (55mil/yr), that's still 1.5mil/yr the state could be saving if we had a combined board. -shrug-

    If anyone is interested, I have the pertinent newspaper articles from way back when. I can PM them to you.

    EDIT: Oh and to answer another question, if you switched your degree back in the day, you can still use it today. There are still a few of them around.
     

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