Are you a contrarian? how does it feel?

[fightingspirit]

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Ok. When I start d-school, I will meet many students and many professors. I will need to be acceptable by both students and professors. And when I go for externships and internships, I will need to be acceptable by the residents. In other words, I will be a part of a group of professionals who are either dentists or oral surgeons. Most of which are white men who tend to be pretty conservative (socially and fiscally). I am liberal (socially and a bit fiscally too). Off course, this difference is not relevant in the grand scheme of things; after all, you need to click professionally and you don’t need to become buddies. Usually, to avoid being bashed for my opinions, I avoid talking about religion, sex, and politics. BUT sometimes, you find yourself in a position that forces you to actually speak your mind about the issues and your liberal opinions get exposed, putting you in an embarrassing situation in which almost every other white guy is going to either ignore you—and insult you in their mind—or bash you right on the spot, claiming you’re being a politically correct liberal jackass who’s not American—believe it or not guys, one day a guy said to me “dude, there are liberals and then there are Americans” just because I criticized the SUV obsession.

So here are my questions:
1-how do you avoid all this?
2-when it comes up, what’s the best way to go about it?
3-who has been voting for democrats all these years?
4-what do you say to yourself when you realize that you’re the only one in a particular group with a certain opinion about things?
5-how do avoid doubting yourself when you realize that you’re on the unpopular end of the spectrum? Is there any way to be proud of being liberal? Does anyone who’s about to start d-school feel the same?

 

[ItsGavinC]

Only those who don't make a dentist's income/run a practice. Then you'll vote conservative.

Just kidding (partly), but you won't many legit answers here to your questions. It's the PRE-DENTAL forum.

 

[fightingspirit]

opinions from all SDNers are welcome, especially from PDIZZLE, HERMEYTHEELF, POLARNUT, COWSGOMOO, DRHOBBIE, AUDIO, PHREMIUS, HOWIE, and INFINITE.

 

[mr.annoying]

You're thinking too hard.

 

[fightingspirit]

Only those who don't make a dentist's income/run a practice. Then you'll vote conservative.

Just kidding (partly), but you won't many legit answers here to your questions. It's the PRE-DENTAL forum.

i know...i thought of starting this thread in the lounge but the lounge is very rough and full of conservative meds....i would hardly get a reply from a dent overthere. it's also very dirty and bashfull.

 

[lgreen_aci]

1- Can you avoid it?
2- give a moderate answer to gauge their openmindedness and/or likely stance
3- me
4- You can't really understand your own beliefs and values with out understanding those of others. As long as you understand and respect the other persons perspective, what is the problem? You don't have to agree w/ everyone.
5- If you know why you feel a certain way, you should have no reason to doubt yourself. Doubting yourself may be an indication you do not know why you feel a certain way.

Bascially I think it come down to, if you can respect others views, regardless of whether they are the same or not, then they will respect yours. If you respect theirs and they can not respect yours in return, that is not your problem.

After that it comes down to basic animal behavior. If you are not the dominant alpha male, step aside.

 

[SuperC]

Here you go agian... Over thinking EVERYTHING!

As a conservative and anyone who is active in politics should do I read liberal books and listen to liberal talk shows. Why? To help me understand the other point of view and so when I am engaged in a discussion about politics I can make sound and logical points.

At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters where you stand on the political divide. As you know many students are liberal (including most of my friends) however, politics is generally something that we agree to disagree on.

I don't think this is going to be as much as a problem as you think it will be.
-C

 

[crazy_sherm]

For Bay Area standards, I would consider myself a moderate. For the rest of middle America, I would probably be considered a treehugging hippie. Having grown up in SF and going to Berkeley for undergrad, it was kind of an adjustment to be thrust into dental school, surrounded by so much conservative thought on a regular basis. I've basically labeled my right-leaning classmates into 2 categories: 1) the rich spoiled brat fiscal conservatives who are driven by greed and selfishness and 2) the socially conservative kids who have been instilled with certain family/cultural values that are different from my own. I tend to avoid talking to category 1 about money or social welfare, because it makes my blood boil. I especially hate it when the idea comes up that poor patients don't deserve adequate care because of their other social/economical/health problems.

For #2, I tend to be a lot more receptive to their views and try to understand where they're coming from. At the same time, I feel like they're in a city with so much to offer, yet we're all stuck indoors away from the public 60hrs/week, so it's hard for them to really get out to learn about things outside their circle. It's unlikely forcing my opinion on someone will make them change their mind, especially if they've grown up a certain way and fed these values since they were a baby. I just want people to know there is a different world out there, different from what they're used to, and it's real. At the same time, they are bringing to me a world I know very little about, and helping me understand other people's perspective I think makes me a better person, whether I agree with them or not.


And to answer your questions:
1 - You don't need to avoid them, just keep an open mind like you wish they could.
2 - Find common ground, there's no need to be rude. Try to respect people's views, but if you can't, it's better to walk away than be an dingus. These are future colleagues, no need to burn bridges so fast.
3 - I usually vote Democratic, but also Green occasionally.
4 - Depends on the topic. Sometimes it ranges from "hmm...i better keep this to myself" to "Goddamn these people are stupid and annoying!"
5- Just realize there are other opinions out there with reasons to them, but that doesn't necessarily invalidate yours. Different folks, different strokes. Just maintain your integrity because who you are as in individual will guide you in your decisions in the future.

I had similar thoughts starting school that it would be a big problem. But you have to realize you make friends with people, not ideas. The majority of people I've met at school, no matter how ignorant I think they are, have been nice and friendly. Not everything has to be a politcal debate about who knows what's best for the world. Sometimes you just want to eat some good grub, grab a beer and shoot the ****.

 

[Kinski]

So here are my questions:
1-how do you avoid all this?
2-when it comes up, what’s the best way to go about it?
3-who has been voting for democrats all these years?
4-what do you say to yourself when you realize that you’re the only one in a particular group with a certain opinion about things?
5-how do avoid doubting yourself when you realize that you’re on the unpopular end of the spectrum? Is there any way to be proud of being liberal? Does anyone who’s about to start d-school feel the same?

Suggestion: Keep your mouth shut..lol

Just kidding..lol 😛

 

[Adam_W]

Too many people today define themselves by their political views, which is sad. You can express who you are as a person without treading into politics. I managed to make some very solid connections with many professors and students at my undergraduate university, even though I know we shared very different political views. Save the political dicussion for appropriate forums (which will pobably not be the sim lab). Don't define yourself by your views, and don't take anyone's attack on your views as an attack on you. Once you learn this, life will be much easier.

 

[howui3]

Some diversity is actually refreshing. You are free to voice your opinion as long as you are not rude or disrespectful about it. So if politics come up, you can discuss your views but if you see the conversation is not going anywhere or is turning into a bad direction, recognize the other's point of view and suggest that we all look at life differently.

A really good friend of mine and I completely disagree in the Israel/Palestine issue, we discuss it, fight about it (in a friendly way) and then recognize that we just feel differently on this issue. But even then we find things that we do agree on.

In your professional life do not try to keep quiet when sensitive issues come up but also use common sense and don't try to push other people’s buttons. There is nothing wrong with having a civilized conversation about sex, religion or politics as long as both party are respectful of the others opinions even if they disagree.

my 2 cents.

 

[hockeydentist]

If you wanna keep your money when you practice dentistry you'll vote republican.....

Just keep your mouth shut when it comes to politics and you'll be fine. Don't burn potential bridges just becuase your political views conflict with each other.

HD

 

[fightingspirit]

Here you go agian... Over thinking EVERYTHING!

As a conservative and anyone who is active in politics should do I read liberal books and listen to liberal talk shows. Why? To help me understand the other point of view and so when I am engaged in a discussion about politics I can make sound and logical points.

At the end of the day, I don't think it really matters where you stand on the political divide. As you know many students are liberal (including most of my friends) however, politics is generally something that we agree to disagree on.

I don't think this is going to be as much as a problem as you think it will be.
-C

thanks...agreeing to disagree seems to be the best way. and another SDNer suggested moderation...you know....the sandra o connor viewpoint.

 

[fightingspirit]

i'd like to thank everybody for their input. i will summarize the collective response to this thread and use it as a source of guidance.

 

[jdude]

If you wanna keep your money when you practice dentistry you'll vote republican.....

Not these days. The republican controlled white house, senate, and house have been spending money like the presses could break tomorrow. 😱

Really those who aren't in favor of big government don't have a legitimate candidate to vote for these days. 😡

Oh that's right, never discuss religion or politics in polite company 😎

 

[adamlc18]

Frankly, I think if you really feel strongly about issues, you should speak up about it when people are talking about it. Why be afraid of who you are? Who do you respect more: people who voice their opinions respectfully and take a stance or people who duck their head and hide who they are because they think it will make them more likeable to other people?

 

[Hardbody]

Not these days. The republican controlled white house, senate, and house have been spending money like the presses could break tomorrow. 😱

Really those who aren't in favor of big government don't have a legitimate candidate to vote for these days. 😡

Oh that's right, never discuss religion or politics in polite company 😎

You must be a libertarian. I am a conservative leaning libertarian, where conservative is only on MOST of the issues not directly addressed by the libertarian party. I wish there would be a revolt against both major parties, cause they are both full of political grandstanding windbags that make laws to line their own pockets. Look at some of the corruption scandals that are starting to come out, both parties are very corrupt and I think that congress should have an internal affairs division (like police departments do). I also hate the fact that we live in a "nanny" society where we have a government that believes it is their job to make laws to protect us from ourselves (example would be seatbelt laws), how pompus.

Here is a question for everyone to think about- If the government makes laws at a much faster pace than laws are being repealed what do you have? How bout a more restrictive, less free society. What ever happened to liberty? I thought that was supposed to be a fundamental concept of the U.S. Constitution (life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness). I think that everyone should just start voting libertarian, probably the only sane people left in the country that don't want communism/socialism or facsism.

http://www.lp.org/article_85.shtml

 

[fightingspirit]

You must be a libertarian. I am a conservative leaning libertarian, where conservative is only on MOST of the issues not directly addressed by the libertarian party. I wish there would be a revolt against both major parties, cause they are both full of political grandstanding windbags that make laws to line their own pockets. Look at some of the corruption scandals that are starting to come out, both parties are very corrupt and I think that congress should have an internal affairs division (like police departments do). I also hate the fact that we live in a "nanny" society where we have a government that believes it is their job to make laws to protect us from ourselves (example would be seatbelt laws), how pompus.

Here is a question for everyone to think about- If the government makes laws at a much faster pace than laws are being repealed what do you have? How bout a more restrictive, less free society. What ever happened to liberty? I thought that was supposed to be a fundamental concept of the U.S. Constitution (life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness). I think that everyone should just start voting libertarian, probably the only sane people left in the country that don't want communism/socialism or facsism.

http://www.lp.org/article_85.shtml

interesting....

however, i did not intend to create a flame thread. this thread is NOT about the political stance of SDNers. it is also not about Dems vs. Reps.

to all SDNers: please do not turn this thread into a blue vs red war or a survey of political opinions on SDN.

the puspose of this thread: how to handle conversations in which you hold an unpopular opinion.

for instance, you are externing at hospital X for specialty Y, so you go out with the current residents to check out chemistry and all....all of a sudden, a white male resident makes a brokeback joke, a wellfare joke, palestinian joke, athiest joke....etc.....this thread is about how to handle such situations without giving the male residents the impression that you are not their type. at the same time, you wanna be true to yourself and to others...it's a fine balance...ie: how do you bash the SUV when many fellow classmates and residents are fantasizing about a HUMMER?...


many posts (see above) tackled the issue nicely.

again, thanks for the input

 

[Hardbody]

interesting....

however, i did not intend to create a flame thread. this thread is NOT about the political stance of SDNers. it is also not about Dems vs. Reps.

to all SDNers: please do not turn this thread into a blue vs red war or a survey of political opinions on SDN.

the puspose of this thread: how to handle conversations in which you hold an unpopular opinion.

for instance, you are externing at hospital X for specialty Y, so you go out with the current residents to check out chemistry and all....all of a sudden, a white male resident makes a brokeback joke, a wellfare joke, palestinian joke, athiest joke....etc.....this thread is about how to handle such situations without giving the male residents the impression that you are not their type. at the same time, you wanna be true to yourself and to others...it's a fine balance...ie: how do you bash the SUV when many residents are fantasizing about a HUMMER?...

Neither did I, I was simply stating that ALL politicians are in it for themselves. That being said, I apologize for semi hi jacking your thread and possibly sparking a flame war, this was not my intent. Btw anyone that is "fantasizing about a HUMMER" is not right in the head (Hummer-the GM truck).

I always have an unpopular opinion where I work and it doesn't bother me at all. I am also not afraid to state my opinions, but I NEVER get emotional over them. I have found that usually people that get emotional over their opinions do not have very good reasoning for their opinions and are afraid of that fact getting exposed and looking silly. If you want to avoid pissing someone off then just try to be calm and articulate your point in an easy to follow way. Do not directly attack them for not have good reason for forming their opinion, and if they do have good reason, do not be afraid to rethink your own opinion (I have). Since you are a liberal try and look up archived footage of Bill Clinton speaking to the American people, him and Ronald Reagan (my hero) were the 2 greatest public speakers in the last 40 years (IMO).

 

[fightingspirit]

Neither did I, I was simply stating that ALL politicians are in it for themselves. That being said, I apologize for semi hi jacking your thread and possibly sparking a flame war, this was not my intent. Btw anyone that is "fantasizing about a HUMMER" is not right in the head (Hummer-the GM truck).

I always have an unpopular opinion where I work and it doesn't bother me at all. I am also not afraid to state my opinions, but I NEVER get emotional over them. I have found that usually people that get emotional over their opinions do not have very good reasoning for their opinions and are afraid of that fact getting exposed and looking silly. If you want to avoid pissing someone off then just try to be calm and articulate your point in an easy to follow way. Do not directly attack them for not have good reason for forming their opinion, and if they do have good reason, do not be afraid to rethink your own opinion (I have). Since you are a liberal try and look up archived footage of Bill Clinton speaking to the American people, him and Ronald Reagan (my hero) were the 2 greatest public speakers in the last 40 years (IMO).

thanks for the excellent advice

 

[HermeytheElf]

Normally I would say stand up for what you believe in and don't be afraid to disagree with people, but dental school is a whole different ballgame. You don't want to stand out, the goal is to fly under the radar...if you can get through school and on graduation day your professors are wondering who you are when you get your diploma, then you've done well.
The whole reasoning behind this is that you do not want to offend any of your teachers because they are already going out of their way to make things hard for you and you don't want to be singled out as "that tree hugging liberal who wants to take all my tax money and give it to people without jobs". Yeah its true that you could argue with them, and you may even win the arguement, but there is such as a thing as winning the battle and losing the war. My advice is maintain your convictions and when you graduate and get your license, THEN say whatever the hell you want about politics, religion, etc. To summarize, don't piss any of your professors off. Don't talk about anything even remotely controversial around your professors. In the end you'll make things alot easier for yourself if you do.

 

[gryffindor]

for instance, you are externing at hospital X for specialty Y, so you go out with the current residents to check out chemistry and all....all of a sudden, a white male resident makes a brokeback joke, a wellfare joke, palestinian joke, athiest joke....etc.....this thread is about how to handle such situations without giving the male residents the impression that you are not their type. at the same time, you wanna be true to yourself and to others...it's a fine balance...ie: how do you bash the SUV when many fellow classmates and residents are fantasizing about a HUMMER?...


many posts (see above) tackled the issue nicely.

again, thanks for the input

You don't bash the SUV. If you are an extern at the hospital and want to get accepted to that specialty program, you keep your mouth shut if you have such radically differing views. Specialty selection can have a lot of subjectivity to it once the initial cut is made based on boards/rank/objective criteria. If you stand out as "that guy" in a negative way - as in "remember that guy who was really annoying and had to give us his opinion on everything? he like totally hated SUVs. what a wierdo!" - you're not getting in.

Once you've been accepted, go ahead and tell them what you really think about SUVs.

Teeth are teeth. If the conversation steers to something uncomfortable, just make up a joke indicating that you don't really have anything to add to the conversation and weasel your way out or change the topic.

Resident: "Dude, I love my new SUV!"
You the extern: "What color is it?"

Resident: "Brokeback Mountain - I am so not going to see that."
You the extern: "Oh hey, what time is that lecture tomorrow?"

Seems like it would be common sense. 😕

 

[howui3]

Normally I would say stand up for what you believe in and don't be afraid to disagree with people, but dental school is a whole different ballgame. You don't want to stand out, the goal is to fly under the radar...if you can get through school and on graduation day your professors are wondering who you are when you get your diploma, then you've done well.

Strongly disagree with you on this.
🙂
Personally, I am thinking of specializing and building a professional relationship with your professors is very important and not just for letters of rec. If you recall your undergrad experience you tried to stand out in your classes so that you could stand out as a dental school applicant. Also, the connections you build during dent school with the faculty and other students can last a lifetime. Later you might need their help, their connections, etc and if you did not stand out and you made no impression on them, well, then you are **** out of luck.

Unless, you are going to join a family practice as a general dentist, building relationships with students and faculty is very important.

Once you start dental school you will see how many students will start joining various clubs, doing volunteer or research work with the faculty, and many other activates not strictly related to getting the degree. They are doing it to stand out.

 

[superchris147]

Strongly disagree with you on this.
🙂
Personally, I am thinking of specializing and building a professional relationship with your professors is very important and not just for letters of rec. If you recall your undergrad experience you tried to stand out in your classes so that you could stand out as a dental school applicant. Also, the connections you build during dent school with the faculty and other students can last a lifetime. Later you might need their help, their connections, etc and if you did not stand out and you made no impression on them, well, then you are **** out of luck.

Unless, you are going to join a family practice as a general dentist, building relationships with students and faculty is very important.

Once you start dental school you will see how many students will start joining various clubs, doing volunteer or research work with the faculty, and many other activates not strictly related to getting the degree. They are doing it to stand out.

once you start dental school you will agree with him. classes are so small teachers can really single you out and pick on you. if what you are saying is "kiss some ass and it will get you ahead" then you are undoubtedly true, however you should be punched in the face. dental school grading (aside from basic sciences) is incredibly subjective and if a teacher doesn't like you it can affect your grade. i skipped out early in a preclinic class probably about the second week of the semester and everytime i see this teacher he gives me **** about skipping out and how lazy i am. and i really don't understand how knowing your teachers and fellow students will help you out later unless you are practicing in the same area.

 

[PDizzle]

opinions from all SDNers are welcome, especially from PDIZZLE, HERMEYTHEELF, POLARNUT, COWSGOMOO, DRHOBBIE, AUDIO, PHREMIUS, HOWIE, and INFINITE.

I'm glad I made your list of responses you wanted!! 🙂

My advice is this: There are topics that are unrelated to dentistry and are notorious for having both sides geting pretty heated up. Religion and politics top this list.

In a work environment, I avoid these topics because they can never really get resolved and unless all involved totally agree, there might be negative consequences. Just don't discuss them. It's not the proper place for it so just avoid it.

Notice how I'm not saying to go against your values and agree with someone because they are in a position of authority. That's just not something I can do nor would most people ultimately respect you for doing.

I went to UC Berkeley, probably the most liberal place on Mother Earth, and am a conservative Republican. If my class was not directly relayed to politcal science, I kept my mouth shut a lot. Outside class, drinking a few beers with friends, I'd talk about my beliefs to my hearts content.

In a proffesioanl setting, I keep those opinions to myself.

 

[howui3]

I'm glad I made your list of responses you wanted!! 🙂

My advice is this: There are topics that are unrelated to dentistry and are notorious for having both sides geting pretty heated up. Religion and politics top this list.

In a work environment, I avoid these topics because they can never really get resolved and unless all involved totally agree, there might be negative consequences. Just don't discuss them. It's not the proper place for it so just avoid it.

Notice how I'm not saying to go against your values and agree with someone because they are in a position of authority. That's just not something I can do nor would most people ultimately respect you for doing.

I went to UC Berkeley, probably the most liberal place on Mother Earth, and am a conservative Republican. If my class was not directly relayed to politcal science, I kept my mouth shut a lot. Outside class, drinking a few beers with friends, I'd talk about my beliefs to my hearts content.

In a proffesioanl setting, I keep those opinions to myself.

i agree, don't bring it up. but if asked your opinion don't be afraid to speak up just because you have a different opinion, remembering to be respectful.

 

[HermeytheElf]

I forgot to mention that I love the word "contrarian" and intend to use it in a conversation this week.