Are you destined to work tons of hours in academia?

[fallen625]

I am in grad school, and have consistently worked 50-60 hour weeks throughout grad school, despite not having to TA or teach and having a very supportive mentor (i.e., not a lot of busy work, most of time is spent publishing). I have been able to publish a lot and get grants, but feel like I NEEDED to work the 50-60 hours to get there and be competitive to apply of academic jobs in a couple of years.

However, one thing that has been bothering me is that I really feel that I will need to continue working nights and weekends to "make it" in academia (by looking at what tenure-track faculty in my department are going through). I generally enjoy the work so the hours aren't painful or anything, but I feel like I am missing out on other parts of my life (mainly spending as much time with husband/kids as I would like)... which makes me wonder if I should go the clinical route to have more of a work-life balance.

Are there any faculty here, either at an AMC of a tenure-track Psychology department? What can I expect in terms of workload?

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[EmotRegulation]

Faculty in a psychology department here, post-tenure. It's a Saturday afternoon and I'm working, but I only work for about 1.5 hours while my kids are napping (well, one of them is napping, the other one is reading and talking to himself in his room), and I don't do that every weekend. And I am obviously not working very hard, because I'm reading SDN!

I won't lie, I did work a lot my first few years, and I still work a lot (I'm on campus from about 8:30 to about 5:30 during the week). But I typically don't work at night, and I don't work much on the weekends. I'd probably estimate I'm at about 45-50 hours/week, which has been pretty consistent for the last few years (save the 3-4 months after each of my kids were born, where I was home but still working sometimes...though don't ask me how much because I can barely recall anything of those times due to the sleep deprivation).

Workload is also going to vary a lot by department. I don't *have* to work as much as I do....many of my colleagues are going camping, going out drinking on the weekends, doing lots of kid stuff. I'm probably on campus more than many of them. My sense is that my department is all about the work-life balance, and the pressure to work more is far more internal than it is based on any kind of external pressure. I'm interested in a lot of things, so I'm generally very busy because there are a lot of questions that I want to answer! But I don't feel like I'm neglecting my family or my husband. We keep up on several TV shows, watch movies, play board games, etc.

Feel free to PM me if you have more questions. I love clinical work, but I also never regretted going the academic route.

 

[Ollie123]

Yes and no?

Assistant professor in a top psychiatry department here. My work-life balance is still not where I want it, but I'm learning. It is better than it was in graduate school, where 60 hours was the norm for me. One thing I've learned is that a lot depends on how you work, what specifically you do, what setting you are in and how motivated you are to get ahead.

Some random things I have learned so far:
- Clinical work seems to allow for a more reasonable number of hours, but less flexibility in when you do it. To each their own.
- On the research end, the amount of work is literally infinite. In graduate school you are at least somewhat constrained in what you can be working on by your mentor and lab. Chances are, your program won't support you running 5 dissertations just for fun. For faculty, that isn't the case. It is up to you to draw the lines.
- There are tremendous differences in compliance expectations and support across universities and sometimes even across departments within the same university. If I leave my current position, this will be the reason why. If I ever get fired, it will almost certainly be for saying something viciously derogatory to someone important about these issues.
- The type of research you do matters, in part because of the compliance expectations. There are upsides and downsides to innovation. My colleagues who primarily do surveys, qualitative studies, etc. have a harder time getting funding, but a much easier time from that point forward. My colleagues doing laboratory, clinical and technology-based research have a much easier time getting funding, but actually running things can be an utter nightmare.
- Really, much will boil down to how much luck/skill you have with getting funding. At AMCs - in general if you are covering your salary and aren't making waves, chances are good you will keep your job. How much you need to do to manage that "cover your salary" piece depends on too many factors to count. Sadly, I do believe luck plays a huge role these days (RE: grants).
- Junior faculty are getting eaten alive in many AMCs right now. I do not believe it is going to be viable moving forward without systemic change. You cannot get large grants without smaller pilot grants, but the bureaucracy requirements are the same whether you have a 2 million dollar R01 or a 25 thousand dollar pilot grant.

For the most part, you WILL have more control over your hours as a faculty member and can choose to work less. There may be consequences to doing so. On the other hand, you may work 100 hours and still not get the funding you need to keep your job.

 

[Pragma]

Tenured faculty at more of a teaching-oriented institution. I generally echo what has been said. More work at first to get things off the ground, but there are a lot of variables.

I teach mostly the same courses over and over, so nowadays my prep needs are minimal. That’s one big factor andalso having autonomy to choose when you teach. There are ebbs and flows, naturally, within an academic schedule. I try my best to compatmentalize and that makes things more manageable. Set aside a discrete amount of time for things and stick to that timeframe.

You could always be doing more research-wise. You have to figure out what is “good enough” and then decide how much more you want to do. In my environment getting grants allows you to teach less, which incentivizes that for some of us. I’m in a hard money position so I don’t need grants to keep it.

But a big part of it is being strategic and learning how to say No when you can. By being proactive about what service commitments I have and scheduling, coupled with teaching what I want when I want, I can say I spend as low as 20 hours per week sometimes working. Sometimes that number gets to 40-60 if there isa big grant or paper deadline, when I have stuff to grade, etc. i do additional work on the side to bolster my income.

Finally, contract terms. I work about 8 months per year (1 month off in winter and 3 months off in summer). I could leave it at that but I do side work to boost my income, but for the off contract times of year, I usually only work part time.

 

[Justanothergrad]

2nd year assistant at an r1 here.


Short answer: "no". I write very quickly so that helps me be very productive but I work 40/week. I will not work more. I like the life balance I have. I could write less (and would if needed to fit that) because life matters. They'll like me or they wont when it comes time. Maybe you don't write as fast, so don't write as much. Maybe you write faster- adjust accordingly. As others have said, you can ALWAYS do more. You will always be encouraged to. Find a fit and a pace you like.


The Awesomest 7-Year Postdoc or: How I Learned to Stop Worrying and Love the Tenure-Track Faculty Life

Read away and enjoy life.

 

[Mama Bear]

I’m tenure-track in the psych department at a teaching institution. I decided long ago that a teaching-heavy institution with lighter research expectations would better help me manage work-life balance. I can better keep work at work if I don’t have too many projects. I always made sure to ask during interviews about the distribution of teaching, research, and service (and requirements for tenure) to see if it was a good fit for me.

 

[PhDPlz2011]

I'm a TT assistant prof at a research-intensive small university. I agree with those who have said that this job is pretty much what you make of it. I don't work weekends unless I really want to (like if I'm really excited about a project) and I very rarely work evenings. My work week is 35-40 hours. I work quickly and efficiently during the hours that I am working, and I put work away completely when I am not (to avoid hours of unnecessary and unproductive puttering). I do think that different institutions vary a lot in their work culture, so it's a good idea to figure out what you want and then look for institutions where that will be a good fit. My approach is typical of faculty at my institution, but I am familiar with institutions where people get competitive about who works the most hours/stays in the office longest/etc. One other thing, though: if you want, in the long term, to work fewer hours, you should start now (especially since you are saying that there are no external constraints forcing this 50-60 hour schedule on you). Learning to achieve enough in the hours you intend to spend on work (and then stopping) is a valuable skill.

 

[PhDPlz2011]

One other thought: it is very common in academia to call anything that happens on campus or with other academics "work." This is one of the lovely things about academia (lengthy mid-day coffee date with a friend who is also a researcher? work!) but it can also lead to long, unproductive work days. I try to really limit activities that aren't directly contributing to my productivity. If I'm actually friends with someone, then we can hang out outside of the work day.

 

[calimich]

Agree with what others have shared. I'm 3rd yr tt assistant prof in a psych department of a smallish (~4,500 total students; ~3000 undergrads) teaching-oriented institution. For me, work-life balance and the potential to "wear many hats" over a career drew me to this type of institution. I enjoy planning curriculum and designing new courses, mentoring undergrads, writing and research, advising clubs, and working on college-wide governance. I also have a young family and knew I wanted time to spend at home. As others have shared, another nice thing about academia is the built in down time. Here, our academic year is about 7 months long; most folks work part time for ~2 of the "off months" and then very little for the rest of the break. We're also able to pursue outside opportunities and this has allowed me to open a private practice and do clinical work 1 day/week.

One downside is the idea that "the work is never done." We can always spend more time fine-tuning curriculum, updating lecture references, looking for that "perfect" video clip, supporting students' arts and athletic events, working on the next conference proposal, doing more committee work, taking on one more mentee....

Boundaries and comfort saying "no" are very important in academia, imo. I'd estimate I average 40-45 hrs/week for 7 months, then 10-15 hrs/wk for the other 5.

 

[Pragma]

but I only work for about 1.5 hours while my kids are napping (well, one of them is napping, the other one is reading and talking to himself in his room), and I don't do that every weekend. And I am obviously not working very hard, because I'm reading SDN!

So true. Mine stopped napping about a year ago, so I end up having to give up about one night a week to stay caught up on miscellaneous things. My spouse can catch up on Flipping Out and finishing up Ozark might just has to wait one more day.[/QUOTE]

 

[DynamicDidactic]

Similarly, TT in teaching university.

Once I hit the job market I was exposed to a much wider variety of academic jobs than I had experienced during training. The teaching loads, your preps, new preps, clinical expectations, advising loads, service expectations, scholarly expectations, and daily work hassles (e.g., meetings, emails, colleagues, students, commutes) can vary greatly. I would say that the greatest advantage of my degree is the flexibility it provides. You can tailor a career path that best suits you. That may also require changing jobs halfway through.

I will agree with @calimich that "the work is never done" feeling is the most burdensome. Maybe things will change after tenure?

 

[Pragma]

Maybe things will change after tenure?

At least for me, the pressure has been almost entirely internal to exceed any expectations. The things I let slide more towards the end of the tenure process were university service work and any extra teaching effort. I'm turning down reviewing papers more often too.

Do things change after tenure? Sure, I suppose, but my internal motivation is still there to keep at it with grants/pubs and service to national organizations. Also, at least the way that our contracts are set up, you still have to "do stuff" in order to get periodic raises (not annual ones but bigger ones) and promotion to Full Professor. I could just say no to everything and teach my classes, but I wouldn't enjoy that and wouldn't see my salary increase by much.

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

Time management, knowing when and how to say no, and trying to minimize the soul sucking admin meetings are all important aspects of developing a manageable work week.

I found that there were more and more clinical responsibilities being added, while still having the research responsibilities, mentoring, etc. Buying out time helped, but then the productivity requirements kept going up. It is no wonder AMCs are losing faculty at a much high rate in the past 5-10 years.

I worked at 2 different R1 universities, though I was on the AMC side of things. Promotion was only possible with significant research productivity and securing high $ grants. Clinical productivity was also very aggressive and expected. I decided to go 100% private practice and while it’s far from perfect, trading admin meetings for pharma dinners was a pretty good thing. I have my weekends back and i’m able to have a life outside of work while nearly doubling my income.

Between the pressures from above (disconnected administrations and hospital boards) and my own aggressive career goals...being at an AMC kept me in a constant state of trying to drink from a fire hose, when really I needed to decide how much was enough. Once I got outside of the bubble and made peace with the fact i’d likely never go back to that world...I found a much better balance.

 

[EmotRegulation]

So true. Mine stopped napping about a year ago, so I end up having to give up about one night a week to stay caught up on miscellaneous things. My spouse can catch up on Flipping Out and finishing up Ozark might just has to wait one more day.

[/QUOTE]

I'm planning to institute a 1.5 hour "quiet time" mid-day even when they stop napping. Everyone gets some alone time to recharge. I'd much prefer that to giving up TV....I love my TV!

 

[fallen625]

Thank you everyone for your responses! It makes me feel encouraged that it is possible to not work crazy hours in academia by finding the right job and, perhaps more importantly, choosing not to work 50-60 hours. I think going into grad school I was aware of how competitive it is to get an academic job, so I pushed really hard. I am now close to graduating with 20+ peer-reviewed manuscripts and over 200k in grant funding (I am hoping that is enough to land a T-T or AMC job, but who knows these days...), and I can't help but wonder if maybe I could have gotten by with less hours and could still get the job I want. I am afraid I will end up with the same type of mentality when I get a job (e.g., worried I won't get tenure, so will be working all the time again). I think I need to learn to work less - so hard in academia!!

 

[Pragma]

I'm planning to institute a 1.5 hour "quiet time" mid-day even when they stop napping. Everyone gets some alone time to recharge. I'd much prefer that to giving up TV....I love my TV!

Big fan of trying it out by just skipping the nap and making bedtime an hour earlier. Yielded great results with us. Quiet time works but it can be unpredictable...and not always quiet. You could give your kid an ipad and let them play educational games or something. I save that for 630am on Saturday morning though when I don't want to get up yet.

 

[Pragma]

Thank you everyone for your responses! It makes me feel encouraged that it is possible to not work crazy hours in academia by finding the right job and, perhaps more importantly, choosing not to work 50-60 hours. I think going into grad school I was aware of how competitive it is to get an academic job, so I pushed really hard. I am now close to graduating with 20+ peer-reviewed manuscripts and over 200k in grant funding (I am hoping that is enough to land a T-T or AMC job, but who knows these days...), and I can't help but wonder if maybe I could have gotten by with less hours and could still get the job I want. I am afraid I will end up with the same type of mentality when I get a job (e.g., worried I won't get tenure, so will be working all the time again). I think I need to learn to work less - so hard in academia!!

You sound well prepared. Think long and hard about the job market and what your long-term career goals are. Decide what is most important to you and try to target places that fit that lifestyle.

FWIW, I've seen plenty of T-T people at a variety of institutions work efficiently and have balance in their lives. The key is finding a place where the expectations meet what you are willing to do. If you are in a very high productivity requirement, it behooves you to learn how to delegate and manage students and research staff well to take care of things you've been having to take care of now.

I think that starting your first job (at least on the tenure track), you can't avoid having to work more initially. You have set-up to do, relationships to form professionally, institutional learning curve, initial teaching preparations (if you are teaching), and also handling all of the curveballs thrown your way whether it is from a grant agency, the institution, or even students or colleagues. You also might have colleagues that are mid-late career that will help mentor you, but some of them might also want to take advantage of your status and get you to help them. Figure out the politics and what will benefit you and what will not, figure out how to say no, and learn how to work smarter and not harder. The latter is a personal thing, but probably the most important thing to figure out regardless of the type of faculty position that you seek.

In my case, I worked pretty hard during my first year and then realized that I could take my foot off the gas in some areas by building in efficiencies (teaching mostly) so that I could focus my effort in other areas. That led me to be able to later on pursue some outside opportunities to boost my income. The key is being strategic about what you take on. A big help in figuring this out is mentorship. Identify people from your own training and stay in touch, have coffee or lunch if you can, or just set aside time to meet with them. Get their advice when you have a problem you can't figure out entirely. Identify people in your institution as well that are not workaholics and let them help guide you on how to be successful at working smart.

Good luck!

 

[EmotRegulation]

Big fan of trying it out by just skipping the nap and making bedtime an hour earlier. Yielded great results with us. Quiet time works but it can be unpredictable...and not always quiet. You could give your kid an ipad and let them play educational games or something. I save that for 630am on Saturday morning though when I don't want to get up yet.

Hah yes, that would cause some ripple effect problems because then the older one would be going to bed before the younger one...I think we'll just deal with this for now!