Are you getting/planning to get the H1N1 vaccination?

[Depakote]

It's available to clinical students at my school now and I've been discussing it with some of my classmates.

It seems like the majority of my classmates are planning to get the vaccine, but there are a number that have expressed reservations or are planning not to get the vaccine.

I'd just like to see what the breakdown of clinical students on SDN is.

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[Depakote]

To answer my own question.

Yes, I got it... I'm working with OB patients now, Peds patients next. I'd hate to be an asymptomatic carrier long enough to give it to someone that would possibly die from it.


As for my own protection... While it's theoretically a modified flu shot held to the same production standards, it's still relatively untested. But considering this is a relatively novel flu that I'll have little to no immunity to, I figured I'd be taking more risk with the flu than I am with the shot.

 

[QofQuimica]

It's available to clinical students at my school now and I've been discussing it with some of my classmates.

It seems like the majority of my classmates are planning to get the vaccine, but there are a number that have expressed reservations or are planning not to get the vaccine.

I'd just like to see what the breakdown of clinical students on SDN is.

Can I add an option for "yes but later" to your poll? Right now, there is not enough vaccine for everyone in the hospital. If I were still on rotations, then I would go ahead and get it now. But since I'm not currently having patient contact, I am going to wait until more arrives so that those who are working in patient-care areas can get first crack at it.

Actually, you may also want to add an option for flu shot versus live nasal. I think the live vaccine will be more readily available for young, healthy, non-pregnant health care workers, a category that will include the majority of medical students and residents. I'm not sure how I feel about getting a nasally administered vaccine; I've never done that before. Anyone with experience getting a live flu vaccine who would care to share?

As for why I want to get the vaccine, I agree with your reasoning: namely, I am more concerned about getting H1N1 than I am about potential vaccine side effects. Along with sanitation, vaccination is probably the most life-saving medical invention in human history.

 

[KidDr]

Can I add an option for "yes but later" to your poll? Right now, there is not enough vaccine for everyone in the hospital. If I were still on rotations, then I would go ahead and get it now. But since I'm not currently having patient contact, I am going to wait until more arrives so that those who are working in patient-care areas can get first crack at it.

Actually, you may also want to add an option for flu shot versus live nasal. I think the live vaccine will be more readily available for young, healthy, non-pregnant health care workers, a category that will include the majority of medical students and residents. I'm not sure how I feel about getting a nasally administered vaccine; I've never done that before. Anyone with experience getting a live flu vaccine who would care to share?

As for why I want to get the vaccine, I agree with your reasoning: namely, I am more concerned about getting H1N1 than I am about potential vaccine side effects. Along with sanitation, vaccination is probably the most life-saving medical invention in human history.

I got the H1N1 nasal vaccine over a week ago and it was fine. It took about 5 seconds to administer. No side effects for me whatsoever. I'd never gotten a nasal vaccine before this one and was curious if it would cause any side effects...but it's been great. I'm planning on getting the seasonal flu nasal vaccine too (have to wait about a month in between getting them).

And I will get on my soapbox here for a minute--I believe that any medical worker who has direct patient contact and declines the flu vaccine (either one of them) should be required to wear a mask, gloves, and gown for any patient contact. I think people should have a right to decline the vaccine (i.e. I don't believe in compulsory vaccination), but if you decline, you should be required to protect your patients, first and foremost, and yourself. It's thought that approximately one third of people with influenza are asymptomatic but still contagious--so simply staying home from work when you're sick isn't a viable option. The vast majority of us in the medical education system (students, residents, fellows) are young enough to have no immunity to H1N1...the vaccine isn't perfect but based on the studies done so far it is certainly better than nothing.

Like measles vaccine and annual TB testing, this is just something you have to deal with if you're in health care...like it or not.

 

[mglavin]

don't remember where but i heard from some reading or from somebody that about 700k would need to be vaccinated and observed to see if this one was indeed safer then the 1970s GB inducing flu vaccine. So probably will end up getting it but not for a 2-4 weeks.

 

[Twitch]

The fact that threads like this exists today testifies to our disregard of the systems we worked so hard to put in place and signifies how our minds can be swayed by how our perceptions get colored by what we see on propaganda (aka fear mongering - really have nothing better to report so let's scare you on 24hrs) tv news networks.

For an amusing perspective on this watch the oct 15th daily show on comedy central.com

 

[KidDr]

The fact that threads like this exists today testifies to our disregard of the systems we worked so hard to put in place and signifies how our minds can be swayed by how our perceptions get colored by what we see on propaganda (aka fear mongering - really have nothing better to report so let's scare you on 24hrs) tv news networks.

For an amusing perspective on this watch the oct 15th daily show on comedy central.com

you can watch it here:
http://scienceblogs.com/effectmeasure/2009/10/jon_stewart_considers_swine_fl.php

I love Jon Stewart.

In regards to the risk of GBS, 2 things:

First, this current vaccine was manufactured the same way as the 100s of millions of doses of flu vaccines that have been give over the past 10+ years, with no noted increased risk of GBS.

Second, the risk of GBS (I think it was actually about 1 in a million, not 1 in 70 million, but don't quote me on that) was unacceptably high in the setting of a pandemic that didn't happen in the 1970s (the H1N1 never spread beyond the military base on which it started). This current situation is completely different. We ARE in a pandemic, millions of people are sick (some of them quite severely), many are dying, and our patients (especially young children and pregnant women) are at risk of being infected by nonvaccinated health care providers. Nothing in life is completely risk-free, but I strongly feel that getting vaccinated against H1N1 is a (very, very, very small) risk that health care providers (and everyone else on the CDC's recommended list) should take. I feel lucky that I was able to get vaccinated so early. The death rate from H1N1 is much higher than 1 in a million...so I feel that a risk of GBS (or any severe side effect) of 1 in a million would be acceptable. But we have no real reason to think that this vaccine will be associated with GBS (for reason #1 above). Like I already said...life is full of inherent risks. Nothing is completely risk-free.

 

[QofQuimica]

I got the H1N1 nasal vaccine over a week ago and it was fine. It took about 5 seconds to administer. No side effects for me whatsoever. I'd never gotten a nasal vaccine before this one and was curious if it would cause any side effects...but it's been great. I'm planning on getting the seasonal flu nasal vaccine too (have to wait about a month in between getting them).

Thanks. I got my regular flu shot a couple of months ago, so timewise I should be able to get H1N1 whenever. I may try the nasal one since I think the shot will be in shorter supply.

I also wanted to say FWIW that I agree with your soapbox in principle, although I'm not convinced that those masks really do much to stop the spread of influenza in practice. Unless people get them fitted *and* wear them consistently, it's not going to work. Considering that we can't even get doctors to consistently use the bacteriocidal foam or gel that's hanging right there in the doorway of every patient's room, how the heck are we going to get doctors to consistently wear a proper-fitting mask, gown, and gloves? I don't even want to imagine how much longer rounds would take.

Hopefully enough people will get immunized to stop the spread among those who refuse.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/health/20pregnant.html

NY Times story about a pregnant woman who almost died of a severe case of H1N1.

In the four months she was hospitalized, she spent five weeks in a coma, suffered six collapsed lungs and a near-fatal seizure. High-pressure ventilation blew her up like a molten balloon until "she looked like she weighed 400 pounds," her husband, Bryan, said, and she has stretch marks from her neck to her ankles. Her muscles and lungs are still so weak that she uses a walker.

While hospitalized, she missed seeing her 4-year-old daughter, Hope, learn to swim and start pre-school.

And, most important, she lost her baby. Parker Christine Op****, almost 27 weeks in the womb, was delivered by emergency Caesarean section on July 18, when her fetal heart rate plummeted during Ms. Op****'s third lung collapse. Her airways were too blocked to let a breathing tube in, possibly a side effect of the drugs saving her mother. She lived seven minutes.

And of course...

"We have friends who get flu symptoms and say, ‘Oh, I'm not going to a doctor,' " Mr. Op**** added. "And we say, ‘Do you not understand what we went through?' I can't imagine why there's so much nonchalance."

That nonchalance strikes close to home.

As they said this, Ms. Op**** was doing her daily physical therapy, struggling to lift one-pound weights. Her therapist interrupted to announce that she opposed flu shots.

"Have you ever read the labels?" she asked. "They're so full of toxins."

Asked if she realized that a shot, had it existed in June, might have saved her client and her baby, she frowned and went back to her clipboard.

Edit: at SDN's overactive censorship

 

[DeadCactus]

Can you even call it a side-effect if it's 1 in a 1,000,000? I can't imagine any sort of statistical study that could possibly differentiate 1 in a 1,000,000 from simple random occurence.

I kind of wish someone would compile all the articles people always cite for and against the purported autism and auto-immune related effects of vaccines. It would be interesting to read them all and really get a big-picture view of the whole thing. I guess not interesting enough for me to go find all the articles myself though.

 

[KidDr]

Can you even call it a side-effect if it's 1 in a 1,000,000? I can't imagine any sort of statistical study that could possibly differentiate 1 in a 1,000,000 from simple random occurence.

I kind of wish someone would compile all the articles people always cite for and against the purported autism and auto-immune related effects of vaccines. It would be interesting to read them all and really get a big-picture view of the whole thing. I guess not interesting enough for me to go find all the articles myself though.

I wouldn't recommend reading "articles" for and against the idea that there is a link between immunizations and autism--there are tens of 1000s of them out there, written by everyone from former playboy bunnies to renowned PhD scientists.

Read the original scientific studies instead. There have been about 8 (large) studies done so far that have debunked the idea of a connection between exposure to thimerosal and autism.

Many scientists who study autism are starting to get a little vocal about devoting more money to studying the supposed link, because they feel like the money would be better spent elsewhere (like researching what actually does cause autism, be it genetics or some environmental trigger or, most likely, some combination of the two). I tend to agree, because it's hard to believe that one more study, or 10 more studies, or even 100 more studies showing no link will convince people who already believe otherwise. At the same time, good data is useful, and if another study convinces even a few more people, that's a good thing.

Anyways...back to the original topic of this thread.

Here's a good Factcheck.org link about the H1N1 vaccine:
http://factcheck.org/2009/10/inoculation-misinformation/

 

[KeyzerSoze]

It's too bad that none of the 5 people who voted "no" have commented to explain their choice.

 

[DeadCactus]

I wouldn't recommend reading "articles" for and against the idea that there is a link between immunizations and autism--there are tens of 1000s of them out there, written by everyone from former playboy bunnies to renowned PhD scientists.

Read the original scientific studies instead. There have been about 8 (large) studies done so far that have debunked the idea of a connection between exposure to thimerosal and autism.

Many scientists who study autism are starting to get a little vocal about devoting more money to studying the supposed link, because they feel like the money would be better spent elsewhere (like researching what actually does cause autism, be it genetics or some environmental trigger or, most likely, some combination of the two). I tend to agree, because it's hard to believe that one more study, or 10 more studies, or even 100 more studies showing no link will convince people who already believe otherwise. At the same time, good data is useful, and if another study convinces even a few more people, that's a good thing.

Anyways...back to the original topic of this thread.

Here's a good Factcheck.org link about the H1N1 vaccine:
http://factcheck.org/2009/10/inoculation-misinformation/

Poor terminology on my part. Yes, what I meant were the research papers/studies done. I believe both sides have their set of "flagships" they float behind. I would be interested in reading the major ones for both sides relating to both autism and GBS.

The GBS studies are of particular interest to me. I know some people who refuse to get either vaccination, but they have a strong family history of autoimmune diseases. I have no idea whether their concern is valid or not...

 

[loveoforganic]

I got the H1N1 nasal vaccine over a week ago and it was fine. It took about 5 seconds to administer. No side effects for me whatsoever. I'd never gotten a nasal vaccine before this one and was curious if it would cause any side effects...but it's been great. I'm planning on getting the seasonal flu nasal vaccine too (have to wait about a month in between getting them).

Not a clinical student, so didn't vote. Anyway, got the H1N1 nasal vaccine today as well and was pleasantly surprised. I HATE nasal sprays, but it seems like they put some sort of atomizer on the end. Couldn't feel it at all, and no allergic reaction so far, so

Edit: 3 days later, no symptoms.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

Ok, so let me summarize that for you; tell me if I've got it right.

You won't have the H1N1 flu vaccine because:

1) It's unavailable (I think the poll is really asking whether you'd get it if it's available, but otherwise this one makes sense.)

2) You didn't catch the H1N1 flu yet.

3) Wearing socks while you sleep prevents viral infections.

4) You will be exposed to a lot more H1N1 next month.

5) Babies have died in the NICU of other infections.

6) H1N1 flu is not transmitted as an aerosol, but rather by licking your contaminated fingers or rubbing your eyes. You do neither of these, so you won't be infected.

Incidentally, assuming that the more coherent of these reasons are valid, why did you get the seasonal flu vaccine?

I posted no. Mainly because it's not even available where I work even though the influenza cases have gone sky high over the past 2 months. Several employees I work closely with got infected yet all I got was a very small cold last week because I was too lazy to go to sleep weating socks (we're getting hit by a bit of an artic cold front, everyone here is whining how dreadfully cold the weather is, wimps).

The influenza cases will probably triple next month when I am back to rotating in a service that has direct contact with influenza cases. Personnel in the Er department have to wear special gowns but employees at services with no such cases and have such fast patient turnover rates like OB/GYN haven't given us any specific requests. We've had an epidemic of several babies dying in the NICU these last two weeks, but it has nothing to do with influenza. They had to shut down the regular NICU and open a new one. I had a call last week where everything went haywire because they shut down the labor department and we were attending babies in really insane places. Only in Mexico. NOTE: None of the moms that had babies in that insane shift ever got sick from influenza or whatever, but attending babies in the recovery room is just odd. I can understand hallways, but the recovery room??? My job is whack.

Most people get infected by licking their infected fingers (I find nail biting to be an unsanitary bad habit.. there's a resident that does this all of the time.. ick), or rubbing your eyes with contaminated fingers. People have to sneeze in their elbows, not in their hands unless they at least wash their hands immediately after. I did get a seasonal flu shot 6 months ago.

 

[ShyRem]

I usually don't get the flu shot. Got one last year and coincidentally got the flu for the first time in years. I wouldn't mind getting it this year, but i'm on away rotations so i don't qualify for their employee flu shots. My own med school flu program specifically states "pregnant women and college students under age 24". Medical students are not included in those getting the vaccine in short supply unless they're under age 24. I'm not. So I'm basically getting hosed. Perhaps my next rotation will help me out, otherwise looks like I'll be waiting until November/December when the vaccine becomes more available. At that point I might as well wait until I get home for Christmas.

On the bright side, I've so far taken care of several folks diagnosed with H1N1 and (knock on wood) I'm symptomless so far other than a bout with a stuffy nose two weeks ago. Hand washing is my friend. As are hand sanitizer and sanitizing wipes. Next on the friend list: hand lotion for my cracking skin because of all the washing and sanitizing.

 

[prophecy2]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mScGC7nFDxM

 

[Tiger26]

I'd probably get it if the Obama regime had done just one successful thing since attaining power--I honestly just don't trust it

 

[KeyzerSoze]

I'd probably get it if the Obama regime had done just one successful thing since attaining power--I honestly just don't trust it

Thanks Glenn.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

My school doesn't have it yet. I believe all the supplies that have been sent to my state are prioritized for children and pregnant women. I'm on board for getting it, but I'll probably have to wait for a while.

 

[psipsina]

I got mine from school today, no problems. The risk of GBS is higher from influenza itself than any vaccine, even the 70s swine flue vaccine. I think my responsibility not to be a carrier of this disease to my patients far outweighs whatever minor risk the vaccine carries. I have yet to hear a logical argument against it from both lay people or fellow proffessionals.

 

[senseiturtle]

Got mine last week (Friday).

No problems.

 

[cpants]

I got mine from school today, no problems. The risk of GBS is higher from influenza itself than any vaccine, even the 70s swine flue vaccine. I think my responsibility not to be a carrier of this disease to my patients far outweighs whatever minor risk the vaccine carries. I have yet to hear a logical argument against it from both lay people or fellow proffessionals.

That's because there is no logical argument against vaccination for swine flu or anything else. Your logic will be met with superstition, even from anti-vaccine colleagues who should know better.

 

[KeyzerSoze]

I will let Obama inject me with so-called "swine flu vaccine" as soon as he releases his nirth certificate.

(Why is there no tin foil helmet smilie?)

 

[EM2BE]

Tried to get the IN version. I met a few of the contraindications, so have to wait for IM.

 

[J1515]

I cannot believe people are not getting vaccinated because they are afraid of GBS. By that same thinking, you probably shouldn't take aspirin because you're afraid of late onset ASA induced asthma attacks, and never take any NSAIDS because you're afraid of AIN. You probably shouldn't eat well-cooked meat either, and don't cook with aluminum. You also shouldn't leave your house or drink water.

Sometimes the more people know, the dumber they are. The worst are the vocal general lay-people who have "researched" the topic. Ugh.

(the above isn't directed towards anyone in particular on this thread)

The second the H1N1 vaccine is available to me I'm getting it. The last thing I need is to transmit it to a 30 week NICU baby or a chemo patient. I don't care if it doesn't work, genetic mutations, blah blah blah...if it reduces the chance of transmission to my patients by even 1% that's good enough for me.

 

[Dirt]

By the way, Bill Maher is the biggest hypocrite in the known world. (and a ******)


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB5DLf1Qt78[/YOUTUBE]

 

[Depakote]

By the way, Bill Maher is the biggest hypocrite in the known world. (and a ******)


[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB5DLf1Qt78[/YOUTUBE]

 

[meister]

I usually don't get the flu shot. Got one last year and coincidentally got the flu for the first time in years.

Why would you ever say this unless you were trying to explain to someone why you refuse to get the flu vaccine? Don't give anti-vaccine *****s any more ammo than they already think they have.


Sigh.

 

[meister]

Got the LAIV, no side effects. There is literally no reason to not get the vaccine unless there is a medical reason.

 

[Pemberley]

My school doesn't have it yet. I believe all the supplies that have been sent to my state are prioritized for children and pregnant women. I'm on board for getting it, but I'll probably have to wait for a while.

My school doesn't have it yet, either. Nor does my ob/gyn (I _am_ pregnant) nor any other source I've been able to find between here and Kansas! Very frustrating.

I'm surprised that health care workers, at least the ones in hospitals, aren't as high as pregnant women on the list. You may not individually be as vulnerable to Bad Things happening as I am, but societally I'd say we're collectively very vulnerable to mass outbreaks among the most vulnerable when health care workers transmit it before even realizing they have it.

(Or, of course, transmit it through negligence or indifference -- not only is the anti-vaccine crowd a menace, but last week some idiot second year showed up to school and hung out with everybody while bragging that he had it and just got put on antivirals that day. Jerk. I didn't want to get close enough to do the appropriate wall-to-wall counseling.)

 

[nlax30]

I'll get it once it's a little more available around here. At least here it seems the first doses have gone straight to a few health departments and grade school. Did get the seasonal one last month which I try to get each year.

My peds rotation was little over a month ago around the time local schools started and I think my first day I had at least 6 positive flu a cases in clinic and then we'd see 1-4 cases everyday for the rest of the month. I was pretty anal about handwashing and never caught it despite snot nosed kiddies coughing on me.

 

[DizzyNT]

got the live intranasal one recently
they just take a little syringe type thing (w/o needle of course) and squirt some liquid on one side, u inhale quickly after, then u do same for other side

might as well have been saline cus don't notice it

did get headache few hours after but could've been random

from someone on peds rotation where sssooooooooo many kids are Influenza A+ i'd be crazy not to get it, getting the flu sucks

 

[DizzyNT]

i got mine from school today, no problems. the risk of gbs is higher from influenza itself than any vaccine, even the 70s swine flue vaccine. I think my responsibility not to be a carrier of this disease to my patients far outweighs whatever minor risk the vaccine carries. I have yet to hear a logical argument against it from both lay people or fellow proffessionals.

bingo!!

 

[Richspiders07]

yyyeah.. mild headache seems to be the general side effect most people are getting... at least for myself and 6 or 7 classmates I've spoken with.

 

[Deferoxamine]

This H1N1 virus is one of the biggest media attention ****** we've seen since Paris Hilton and Jesse Jackson. We are fed up with watching some stupid story on H1N1 on EVERY TV channel.

H1N1 virus, if you are reading this right now, please go kill yourself. Thanks in advance.

 

[nlax30]

This H1N1 virus is one of the biggest media attention ****** we've seen since Paris Hilton and Jesse Jackson. We are fed up with watching some stupid story on H1N1 on EVERY TV channel.

Very true.

Reminds me of a clip the other day of, I think, MSNBC interviewing Jesse Jackson but the anchor introduced him as Al Sharpton.... Not that there's a whole lot of difference but still pretty funny. And the look on his face was priceless. My guilty pleasure of TIVO-ing The Soup has paid off.

 

[Doctor Bagel]

My school doesn't have it yet, either. Nor does my ob/gyn (I _am_ pregnant) nor any other source I've been able to find between here and Kansas! Very frustrating.

My sister is pregnant, and her ob/gyn doesn't have it either. She's not exactly sure where she can go to get it. It's definitely frustrating that the supply just isn't there yet.

 

[Depakote]

My sister is pregnant, and her ob/gyn doesn't have it either. She's not exactly sure where she can go to get it. It's definitely frustrating that the supply just isn't there yet.

I'm on my OB/GYN rotation right now and our office doesn't carry it. I guess you have to order a large quantity they wouldn't be able to distribute that many.

We're referring people to the local health dept to get their shots. I'd suggest checking there, hopefully they'll have it or be able to let you know when.