Are You Going to Practice Osteopaphy when you Graduate???

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by Tom, Aug 25, 2001.

  1. Tom

    Tom New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am 47 yr old male who has had a ruptured disk at L5-S1. My problem comes in the fact that I live in Roch NY and we have about 40 DO's. My primary care physician is a DO and I can't get anyone to treat me with osteopathy. I have read Dr. Fulford's Touch of Life and I would love to get treatment but don't want to drive 3 hrs to go to a practicing DO. I am telling everyone I know about you people. I feel it is much easier to get into DO school which is exactly why Dr. Fulford became one, his chemistry grades weren't good enough for med school.

    If I want Medical Doctor treatment I will go to one and if I go to a DO I want that treatment. But when you people graduate you scam us public into thinking you are something you are not and become pill pushers just like MD"s.

    I am a little upset as I am going into surgery on Tues for a Lumbar Discectomy.

    I have left my DO and am now going to a board certified MD. Funny thing is in my large family I have identified 12 people that are going to DO's and think they are MD's just because they use DR. Just because you have a doctorate it is funny how many people perceive you are a MD if you work in the medical field.

    Of the 12 6 have left their DO's and now are going to MD's, they feel betrayed because for many years they thought they were being treated by MD's..

    I'm pretty sure that I will be thrown off this group after this message but I want you to know how the EDUCATED PUBLIC is going to react to you guys.

    I have a friend that swears by DO treatment and he goes to NY Institute of Tech for treatment(this is where my previous caregiver graduated). I talked to the dean of the school and he said the biggest problem he has is kids don't practice osteopathy when they graduate and become pill pushers to make more money and be accepted by MD's.


    I feel that when more consumers LEARN(from the internet)what a DO is they will either demand treatment or switch to another MD. Thanks for Listening. Tom
     
  2. Thread continues after this sponsor message. SDN Members do not see this ad.

  3. drusso

    Physician Moderator Emeritus Lifetime Donor Classifieds Approved

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 1998
    Messages:
    6,621
    Likes Received:
    1,847
    Status:
    Attending Physician
    It sound like your family members who felt "betrayed" because they didn't know that their family physician was D.O. also didn't know that D.O.'s and M.D.'s are legal and professional equivalents.

    As far as public perceptions of D.O.'s goes, you might be interested in this study which found that as a whole, patients are equally satisfied with treatment from M.D.'s and D.O.'s and would like more access to osteopathic manipulative treatment.

    Best of luck with your back. Have you tried seeing a physiatrist (either D.O. or M.D.)?


    ----------------------------


    J Am Osteopath Assoc 2001 Jul;101(7):374-85


    Characteristics, satisfaction, and perceptions of patients receiving ambulatory healthcare from osteopathic physicians: a comparative national survey.

    Licciardone JC, Herron KM.

    Department of Family Medicine, Texas College of Osteopathic Medicine, University of North Texas Health Science Center at Fort Worth, 3500 Camp Bowie Boulevard, Fort Worth, TX 76107, USA. [email protected]

    A national telephone survey was conducted in 1998 using random-digit dialing and the first Osteopathic Survey of Healthcare in America (OSTEOSURV-I) instrument to determine patients' satisfaction with their healthcare, as well as their perceptions of osteopathic medicine. Of the 1106 respondents, 243 (22.0%) had received medical care from an osteopathic physician, and another 307 (27.8%) claimed to be aware of osteopathic physicians. Patients of osteopathic physicians reported the highest levels of satisfaction in 8 of the 11 elements studied when compared with patients of allopathic physicians, chiropractors, and nonphysician clinicians other than chiropractors. Respondents perceived osteopathic manipulative treatment (OMT) to be beneficial for musculoskeletal disorders (P < .001). In addition, respondents perceived that healthcare services provided by osteopathic physicians were similar to those provided by allopathic physicians (P < .001), but not to those provided by chiropractors (P = .01). A total of 97.9% of current patients of osteopathic physicians agreed with the statement that osteopathic physicians practiced in their local community, compared with 80.6% of former patients of osteopathic physicians and 67.8% of patients who had never visited osteopathic physicians (P < .001). In general, the most favorable perceptions of osteopathic medicine were reported by current patients of osteopathic physicians, followed by former patients of such physicians. The least favorable perceptions came from patients who had never been patients of osteopathic physicians. The perception that OMT should be covered by health insurance was significantly associated with the use of osteopathic physicians (odds ratio, 3.2; 95% confidence interval, 1.5 to 6.7, among patients who had ever been to an osteopathic physician). The results of our survey suggest that greater access to osteopathic services, including OMT, is desirable and that promotional efforts aimed at encouraging the use of osteopathic medical services among the general population are warranted.
     
  4. electra

    electra SDN Moderator

    Joined:
    Apr 20, 2001
    Messages:
    475
    Likes Received:
    0
    first, let me say that i hope your back problem gets better following your surgery...
    and second, perhaps you are not a candidate for manual medicine, which you seem to be confusing with osteopathy. have you asked your physician about this, or sought a second opinion?
    it is true that some DOs do not practice much manual medicine. unfortunately, it is also true that coverage for such treatment through some plans is limited, and at the same time people are willing to pay for chiropractic, they are unwilling to pay their OWN PHYSICIAN. Hello?

    and, unless you are in the position of applying and getting into school, please do not spout off remarks like "it is easier to get into D.O. school." the two types of schools are entirely different, and each has its own challenges. You say that you are interested in a form of therapy and then you contradict yourself by your assumption that this person was somehow "not good enough" to go to a "real" school.

    your family members "feel betrayed" by seeing a DO? how strange. we also are board licensed, and chances are, people don't know we are "different" because much of our scientific and clinical training is the same.

    electra
     
  5. Toran

    Toran Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 1998
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    I am going to practice "osteopathy" (Manual medicine) when I graduate. Fortunately, I didn't go to allopathic school (MD), because I don't want to be a "pill-pusher". If the symptoms call for medication, than that is what I will prescribe. Furthermore, if the symptoms can be normalized with manual medicine, than I will utilize my skills as a DO.
    I feel your pain and confusion about the differences between a DO, and an MD. These are common misconceptions, and it is normal to be frightened and angry with this type of new information. However, rest assured that the DO that saw you is just as well trained as the other MDs out there, and it is likely that the doctor is better trained.
    Finally, I am a little angry myself. Yes, you did bash the profession that I have dedicated the next 25 years (at least) of my life to, however that last thing that I would want is for you to be banned from the posting board. The fact remains that what you think will affect what others think about osteopathic medicine, and it is my belief that with a better insight into osteopathic medicine you too will be as impressed with the quality of the DO as I am.
    With drusso, and the rest of the board's assistance I challenge you to read more on the topic to find a balance in your choice of medical care.

    Toran
     
  6. Tom

    Tom New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    People the point that I was trying to make was I wanted to try the Manipulation technique. I have read 3 books on osteopathy. The problem is NOT ONE of the DO's in the Roch NY area will do the manipulation. I would pay for it. Money was not the problem. NO ONE PRACTICES IT. Please tell me why???? In all of NY STATE there is only 10 DO's doing manipulation and most are in NYC. If these people went to school for it why don't they use this knowledge??? Instead they just push pills. I hope you students will at least practice the disipline when you get in the real world.
     
  7. bustinbooty

    bustinbooty Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 11, 2001
    Messages:
    331
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tom...I still feel you may be confusing D.O.'s with chiropractors. D.O.s do receive special training in manipulation, but this is just a small part of specialized osteopathic training. It seems to me that you went into the D.O. office expecting a manipulation because you are under the impression that this is ALL that D.O.'s do. Did it ever occur to you that the D.O. might have felt that manipulation would not have been appropriate for your situation. Considering that you are going in for a discectomy, I wouldn't think manipulation would be a safe and viable form of treatment at this point of your condition. The D.O. was using a vast medical education and experience to make a medical decision regarding the treatment of your back. In your medical opinion, you wanted manipulation. I would stick with the doctor's medical opinion over your own.
     
  8. Toran

    Toran Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 1998
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    I couldn't agree more with bustin. Man you crack me up sometimes!
     
  9. kidterrific

    kidterrific Senior Member

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2000
    Messages:
    305
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tom,

    First off, I understand your situation, but if you still continue to berate osteopathic physicians just to make yourself feel better about not getting treated, I doubt anyone will try to take your problem seriously.

    That being said, let me just say that Osteopathic Medicine is NOT about manipulation, it is the practice of medicine that "embraces all known forms of medical treatment and therapy incorporating and being informed by science, philosophy, and practice of osteopathy." In other words, we aren't 'pill pushers,' and we aren't Chiropracters. We are doctors that treat patients with whatever is best for the patient. If the DO thought you should be manipulated, he would have referred you to a colleague that is more proficient in manipulation, rather than a surgeon.

    However, if you still feel your opinion outweighs seven years of medical training, then I encourage you to apply to med school. That way, you can tell us how it's done.
     
  10. UHS2002

    UHS2002 Senior Member

    Joined:
    Jan 11, 1999
    Messages:
    508
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tom,

    I am assuming you didn't go to a gastroenterologist for your surgery,nor did you go to a cardiothoracic surgeon nor a gynecologist and so on. Each physician is trained in a certain area of medicine.

    DOs receive the exact same training as MDs and are LEGALLY authorized to practice medicine. There are only two kinds of professionals that can practice medicine in the US, and they are MDs and DOs.

    Just because DO students receive training in manipulative mnedicine in medical school it doesn't make them specialists in that area. They also receive training in cardiology and they are not cardiologists. The same is true for MDs. MD and DO students learn many aspects of medicine in medical school but they all have to do additional years of training before they can actually specialize in any area. Family Practice physicians, MD and DOs alike,for instance, have to do an additional 3 years of training, after medical school to practice Family Medicine, which is really the least "narrowly specialized" area of medicine in this country.

    There isn't a lot of interest among DO students in specializing in manipulative medicine, for many reasons. Just as there aren't many MD students that plan to be colorectal surgeons. Face it, some specialties are more popular than others.

    I have many problems with the tone of your post. To me, you are sound like one of those patients who walk into the Dr's office "knowing your diagnosis and what it will take to make you feel better". I am always amazed at people such as you, with zero medical training, who tell someone with 7-10 years of medical training what to do! If you are not accomodated, you switch to another doctor, voila! It is a sad state of affairs when people think of their medical care as going shopping, "if I don't like what this doctor does, I will just go see another one". It is not as simple as that, and often what we think we need in terms of medical care, is opposite to what we REALLY need.

    In any event, if you ever had a heart attack, I would recommend a cardiologist. In your case, since your back problem is so severe as to ultimately require surgery, an orthopedic surgeon (MD or DO), neurosurgeon (MD or DO) or a DO who actually was BOARD CERTIFIED in manipulative medicine, for a pre-surgical second opinion, would be my recommendation. Just because there are no DOs in your area who have choosen to become board certified in manipulative medicine, is not a good excuse to launch into a tirade against the Osteopathic profession. If you cannot find, for instance, MDs specialized in Pediatric Neurology in your area would you feel justified to criticize all MDs? No?! According to your logic you should, because we all, MD and DO medical students alike, receive some training in pediatric neurology. So how come we all are not practicing it?!
     
  11. moo

    moo 1K Member

    Joined:
    Jul 4, 2000
    Messages:
    1,423
    Likes Received:
    6
    Tom, maybe you should go see a chiropractor if you want manual manipulation.
     
  12. R. Dale Jackson

    R. Dale Jackson Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2000
    Messages:
    269
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tom:
    I hear your pain. However, you do need to be aware of the many points that have already been made on this post. It is difficult to find a D.O. that "specializes" in O.M.M. Moreover, not all primary care or specialty physicians (D.O.'s) incorporate it into their practice. There may be many reasons for it, but insurance reimbursement/time is one the biggest deterrents.
    As far as physicians not doing things they are trained in goes; well, there are a ton of examples like this. To keep it simple, let's stick with primary care. All physicians learn how to suture minor wounds, right? Well, not all family practioners will give you stitches if you go into their office with a cut on your arm. It really depends on what type of practice they have. Some may do minor surgery, labs, x-rays, etc., in their office...many will not. Many will refer you to the emergency room or an urgent care clinic. This is just one of the many intricacies that are a part of the debacle that we call the American Health Care System.

    Now, getting back to OMT...I had/have a chronic back problem that followed an injury that I suffered from about 10 years ago. Because of the HMO I was in, I had a tough time getting the kind of care my doctors (MD's and D.O.'s) said I needed. First of all, they do not pay for OMT. Second of all, my HMO did not recognize Sports Medicine as a specialty and my family physician could not refer me to physician who was board certified in it. Thirdly, getting a referral to a physical medicine and rehabilitation physician (MD or DO) approved was very, very difficult.
    I guess what I am saying is that I feel your pain. There are many reasons for the complaints that you have. Berating a particular physician or group of them may not be the answer. You are frustrated (and I know what that feels like) and it appears you may be using this board, as well as D.O.'s, as a sounding board.

    I wish you the best with your back. I have gone through three bouts of physical therapy over the last two years. I am doing very well now and have recently gotten back into decent shape. It was a long, hard, and painful road at times.

    Take care,
    Dale Jackson,
    MSUCOM 2005
     
  13. R. Dale Jackson

    R. Dale Jackson Senior Member

    Joined:
    Mar 2, 2000
    Messages:
    269
    Likes Received:
    0
    ...P.S. To all my fellow D.O. buddies out there. Go easy on this guy. I can relate to what he is going through. There are times when I wanted to ripe out my Doctor's throat. It sucks being sick/hurt and it sucks worse when you feel that you are not getting the proper care.

    Dale :)
     
  14. Toran

    Toran Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 1998
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    Chiropractors are, for the most part, evil.

    Bustin, if you got some of that bustin in your booty, than you might be able to keep up with this wimp!
     
  15. Tom

    Tom New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    All right here is my full story. After Toran called me a Wimp and all chiro's are , I got mad and feel if you knew my full story maybe you would understand better. Although with a name caller like Toran I'm sure I will get no where. You students should be real proud of a fellow peer like him.

    About 4 months ago I came down with a severe back ache
    after picking up a machine that weghted bout 95 lbs. I am the NY State Mgr for a company called Thermal Dynamics, we make Plasma Cutters. I go to the Ymca 4 times a week weigh 195 lbs and in terms of the Fitlinx eq at my Y I am in the top 2% of all people in the gym in terms of fitness not just my age group. Don't think I am a wimp but I digress.

    When my back went out I thought I was having a heart attack the pain was so bad.
    After going that weekend in bed my wife convinced my to go see our Primary care physician who I found out is a DO who trained at NY Inst of Tech. He put me on anti inflammitories and felt I would get better on my own. After suffering about 1 month I went back and was referred to a chiropractor. I located one who is supposed to be the best in Roch NY. He works for our Pro soccer team and is also the one my DO goes to for his back problems.I don't think he is , nor does my DO.
    After getting some relief from the chiro I took a trip to NYC on business. After the flight I had a relapse. As I was working with a business accociate in NYC he enlightented me to the field of DO. According to him you people are miracle workers. He was in much worse shape than me after being in a auto accident. He went the route of chiro,ortho & neuro with no relief. Then he found out about DO at NY Inst of Tech. Got into the school and with in 1 month was back in shape again. He has a long story as to what they did for him but many of his treaments lasted as long as 1 hour with students working on him.

    OK I thought I will give it a try. That night in the hotel I started my knowledge on osteopathy. Thru the AMA I found my Dr. was a Do. Was a little surprised because after reading about all the differences of Do treatments with the holistic approach he never treated meany diff than any MD.

    My Ex brother in law is a MD, with many friends in the Med field & my sister is a Radiologist and one of my best friends son presently is going to the University of Rochester studing to be a MD. Not one of them had anything good to say about osteopathy. Especially the U of R student who knew all about oseopathy schools.

    I really didn't care and just figured that it was professional prejudice which I see in my field of Engineering every day. All I care about are results.

    When I called my doctors office they said he no longer did manipulations and they weren't aware of anyone in the area who did. Now Roch is not a small town, to you people not familiar with us it is where Kodak,Xerox,U of R, RIT,Eastman School of Music,Hocstein and Strong Memorial Hospital is located. Next to NYC we are the 3rd largest city in the state. Why do no DO's practice here???
    I called the NYS osteo organizaton they faxed me a list of all Do's in the area and we have quite a few. After calling every one of about 20 names, NO ONE practiced osteo manipulations and would see me. In my Medical plan I need no referals and can see who and when I want so that wasn't a problem.

    Maybe now you can understand a little better my situation. All I wanted was someone to see me to get treatment like my frien got in NYC. He told me it was time consuming and painful but he believed that I could be helped by osteo manipulation. My take on this situation is when you are in school you try and say that DO training is better than MD but when you get in the real world you ignore the treatment to better integrate yourselves with your friends in the AMA.

    Lastly people don't underestimate the knowledge of the average joe many of us are not as stupid as you believe. I may not be a 8 year student of medical school but with the power of the internet i feel I am pretty up on every treatment for back pain available today. The average patient you will be encountering in the future is not the same as what was around even 3 years ago. WE read anything having to do with our PARTICULAR AREA OF TREATMENT we can get our hands on. We have the time to do it while you may not when you are treating patients.

    We are in forums that pertain to our illness and we TALK to each other. Beware to the person who ignores this power.
    The old boy medical network is a thing of the past. The neurosurgeon that I will be seeing is not the one recommended by my DO. He is someone I researched on the internet. I know where he went to PreMED, MED,Neuro training residency etc. I then talked to friends and family and guess what he has the best reputation in Roch. So good that Ted Turner of TBS flew to Roch 2 years ago to have him do the same surgery that I am having on Tues.

    Am I relieing on the anesthesiologist that will randomly given to me?? No way. I found out how is on call that day. Out of the 9 people, again I went to the power of the net. I choose 3 in order. Went to my sister gave her the names and she checked and said I had the names in the correct order. Does this mean the original Neuro recommmended by my Do is not good. No it doesn't, It says I don't want to put my back in the hands of a guy that went to the B.J. MED COLL, GUJARAT UNIV, AHMEDABAD, GUJARAT, INDIA and is not a member of the AMA.

    Finally I would like to say am I apprehensive of this operation, I just wish I could have found a DO that would have looked at my case. Bill from NYC was one week away from surgery before he saw his DO and is now in great shape with out it.. Hope I didn't bore you too much but I waold like to wish you all the best in your studies and God Bless. Tom
     
  16. Thread continues after this sponsor message. SDN Members do not see this ad.

  17. Toran

    Toran Senior Member

    Joined:
    Nov 18, 1998
    Messages:
    399
    Likes Received:
    0
    I apologize for the miscommunication Tom, for I wasn't calling you a wimp. Bustin is a colleague of mine, and we were fooling with eachother.
    I understand that you probably do know more about your back history, and anatomy than many physicians. Furthermore, I agree that you should have a second opinion from another physician specializing in back rehabilitation. Physiatrists that went to osteopathic school, are extremely well prepared for such a history as yours. Surgery is not always the answer, and I think that you can appreciate that.
    Good luck, and I hope that no harm is done
    Toran
     
  18. SunnyOne

    SunnyOne Member

    Joined:
    Jun 19, 2001
    Messages:
    58
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tom,
    I'm sorry about the negative experience you have had. It sounds like you are in a very frustrating situation. Hopefully the students reading this can learn from what you have shared. In the future, we should do what is in our power to see that others have a better experience with osteopathic medicine than you did. Best wishes to you regarding your surgery. Does anyone reading this have further insight as to why an OMT provider was so hard for Tom to find? Is this lack of OMT availability common across the country?

    Good luck, Tom.
     
  19. Tom

    Tom New Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    4
    Likes Received:
    0
    Toran, Apology accepted. I guess I am not really myself lately. Been out of work for 2 weeks.

    Was planning on taking my family to the Vermont Fair in Burlington on Fri. Would have been a nice trip but my wife called it off. I was willing to give it a try but she said no way. Kind of bummed because I really love New England this time of yr. The kids really took it well though. We try and do something before school starts as a family but this year it won't happen. Take Care, Tom.
     
  20. DO/MBA

    DO/MBA Member

    Joined:
    Aug 23, 2001
    Messages:
    95
    Likes Received:
    0
    Tom,
    What you said was on the money. Patients know a LOT about their problems. It is unfortunate that none of the DO's in Roch practice OMT, but then again I would be very worried if I started manipulating your back and would feel much better having a specialist do it. Good Luck to you.

    P.S. You should look up the doc that treated your friend to see if he can help.
     

Share This Page