Are you religious?

[La Presse]

I can make you not feel. lol sounds silly huh? So is thinking you could convince someone of your beliefs. You believe whatever you like, and leave anybody who doesn't alone.

I am the type of person that strongly believes in the potential of humanity and give everyone the benefit of the doubt, which translates to thinking they have the capacity to CHALLENGE their own beliefs. But then again,

"It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it." -Aristotle

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[virtuoso735]

Yes, but you have to make an effort to stay with that person in order for your kids to get the full benefit of love between parents. In a similar way, religion has rules that we follow to 1) better or relationship within the family and thus increasing our offspring fitness and 2) better relationships in society. They both help contribute to a better living situation. I guess illogical was not the best word, but they are similar.

Sure, love can make two people stay together for the benefit of their children. But being religious does not mean that two people will stay together, and not being religious does not mean that two people won't stay together. Religion has been a social force in keeping couples together but I don't see why a couple couldn't think about the pros and cons of staying together for the sake of their children without resorting to religious arguments. Most people can think on their own. Not to mention many religions' outdated and draconian rules about women having to serve their husbands and being stoned for being raped by another man (just an example). Should a man and woman stay together if the man is abusive? I'm sure we could find bible verses saying that they should. That's why people shouldn't rely on a book to make decisions. They end up taking what works for them and ignoring what doesn't. Besides, how does a book written thousands of years by desert herders have anything to do with life today? Treat it as a great work of literature, but beyond that, I am bewildered as to why anyone would want to actually live their lives by it.

 

[virtuoso735]

Quote:
"It is the mark of an educated man to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it." -Aristotle

Most atheists have entertained the idea of a personal God and the idea of participating in organized religion, but most have realized that there is no evidence whatsoever supporting the existence of a higher power.

On the other hand, how many religious people do we have that actually take a serious and critical look at their own religions? You can simply attribute your beliefs to faith and leave it at that, or that you "feel" a certain way when you pray or read a religious text, but none of that amounts to any evidence.

 

[Gust]

i see no purpose to this thread...

my philosophy: to each their own...

be good to people and people will be good to u

 

[La Presse]

Most atheists have entertained the idea of a personal God and the idea of participating in organized religion, but most have realized that there is no evidence whatsoever supporting the existence of a higher power.

On the other hand, how many religious people do we have that actually take a serious and critical look at their own religions? You can simply attribute your beliefs to faith and leave it at that, or that you "feel" a certain way when you pray or read a religious text, but none of that amounts to any evidence.

Don't start.

 

[abolt18]

I'm very religious. I'm LDS or "Mormon" and love it!

 

[Barley426]

I am the type of person that strongly believes in the potential of humanity and give everyone the benefit of the doubt, which translates to thinking they have the capacity to CHALLENGE their own beliefs. But then again,

Yeah I've thoroughly challenged my stance on this, I dare say most atheist/agnostics have, and many religious have not.

My point is it is a persons responsibility to challenge their own beliefs, not have them challenged by someone else.

Don't start.

Yeah you kind of already did, but you want to cry foul for him addressing your statement with a very valid point.

i see no purpose to this thread...

my philosophy: to each their own...

be good to people and people will be good to u

This is something I can give a +1 to.

 

[virtuoso735]

i see no purpose to this thread...

my philosophy: to each their own...

be good to people and people will be good to u

I agree with you. I just hate it when religious people try to turn America into a theocracy, especially when they try to deny rights to those who are different from them.

 

[La Presse]

Yeah I've thoroughly challenged my stance on this, I dare say most atheist/agnostics have, and many religious have not.

My point is it is a person's* responsibility to challenge their own beliefs, not have them challenged by someone else.

I know why I believe in the ideas that I do.


Yeah you kind of already did, but you want to cry foul for him addressing your statement with a very valid point.

Cool story, but I really do not want that escalating on my thread. kthxbye.

.

 

[blondiellie]

Brother, you too have been touched by His noodly appendages!

Obviously Pastafarianism is the right way to go. No other religion so correctly correlates the decline in pirates with global warming.

 

[Barley426]

I know why I believe in the ideas that I do.

That doesn't mean you thoroughly challenged your beliefs, but lets say you did (and that's what you meant). Good for you, but my statement is still valid, many (arguably most) religious people didn't come upon their beliefs as a result of hard thought deliberation and critical analysis of the facts.

Cool story, but I really do not want that escalating on my thread. kthxbye.

Too bad, you want to sneak in your comments but shut out anyone else's just because it's "your" thread, knotgoingtohappenbye

.

 

[red7]

I try to worship the sun and give homage to Joe Pesci at least once a week.

People need to stop arguing on this thread and watch some George Carlin instead!

 

[Marleynarley]

Bibles and textbooks are both made by humans.

I try and follow the New Testament because I like Jesus as a person and I appreciate the rules that he gave us to live by. I think this world would be a better place without the Old Testament. ( new god is nicer than the old god).

I consider myself culturally catholic. I like how "rituals" make our life's feel like they have meaning and church is a good gathering place for the community.

I hope there is something after death. I feel like it would be a shame to loose all these wonderful people.

 

[ClemsonFirst]

Sure, love can make two people stay together for the benefit of their children. But being religious does not mean that two people will stay together, and not being religious does not mean that two people won't stay together. Religion has been a social force in keeping couples together but I don't see why a couple couldn't think about the pros and cons of staying together for the sake of their children without resorting to religious arguments. Most people can think on their own. Not to mention many religions' outdated and draconian rules about women having to serve their husbands and being stoned for being raped by another man (just an example). Should a man and woman stay together if the man is abusive? I'm sure we could find bible verses saying that they should. That's why people shouldn't rely on a book to make decisions. They end up taking what works for them and ignoring what doesn't. Besides, how does a book written thousands of years by desert herders have anything to do with life today? Treat it as a great work of literature, but beyond that, I am bewildered as to why anyone would want to actually live their lives by it.

Would you say two people in love will stay together? I sure wouldn't. Love can propel people to have a child, but love is not always an all enduring feeling. Religion can give a couple the guidance to continue through and stay together granted it can fail too. There is no automatic cure, but love helps start relationships and family and there are rules in religions that help preserve it.

We still have many things the bible talks about (mainly the New Testament with cheating, stealing, lying), so I believe the Bible can still apply today.

 

[La Presse]

That doesn't mean you thoroughly challenged your beliefs, but lets say you did (and that's what you meant). Good for you, but my statement is still valid, many (arguably most) religious people didn't come upon their beliefs as a result of hard thought deliberation and critical analysis of the facts.

I am often introspective, and as a result, I am extra critical and bring outside information to judge certain portions of my faith. Does God really exist? Philosophy argues that using several arguments--ontological and epistemological come to mind. You can look that up. Religion is challenged every day in a lot of people's mind and lives. When people sit down at mass or in a church or chapel and read the text, they are not reading mundane stories. These so called stories that many people regard as invalid serve a purpose. Some serve as a framework to lead happy and successful lives. Others are based on premonition and prophecy, a lot of which has decent historical significance.

Too bad, you want to sneak in your comments but shut out anyone else's just because it's "your" thread, knotgoingtohappenbye

#pleasebepcinmythread

.

 

[Gust]

i see this thread is going down that road...

any mods out there, please close the thread. inevitably it's going to lead to bashing one another's beliefs. nothing is going to get resolved

 

[La Presse]

i see this thread is going down that road...

any mods out there, please close the thread. inevitably it's going to lead to bashing one another's beliefs. nothing is going to get resolved

Naw. Bet.

As you can see, we are speaking very generally.

 

[Charles Darwin]

Bibles and textbooks are both made by humans.

I try and follow the New Testament because I like Jesus as a person and I appreciate the rules that he gave us to live by. I think this world would be a better place without the Old Testament. ( new god is nicer than the old god).

I consider myself culturally catholic. I like how "rituals" make our life's feel like they have meaning and church is a good gathering place for the community.

I hope there is something after death. I feel like it would be a shame to loose all these wonderful people.

 

[Amba]

Bibles and textbooks are both made by humans.

I try and follow the New Testament because I like Jesus as a person and I appreciate the rules that he gave us to live by. I think this world would be a better place without the Old Testament. ( new god is nicer than the old god).

I consider myself culturally catholic. I like how "rituals" make our life's feel like they have meaning and church is a good gathering place for the community.

I hope there is something after death. I feel like it would be a shame to loose all these wonderful people.

As I'm about to go on a long run, I probably won't be able to respond to any near-future comments, but I had to here before I run.

There is no new testament without the old testament. We wouldn't experience grace and forgiveness if we didn't have a whole book of laws that we can't fulfill ourself. I won't debate that Jesus set an ideal standard of how to live, because it's true. But to treat the new testament as simply a guide on how to live a better life shows a drastic misunderstanding of the new and old testaments along with the bible as a whole.

 

[Charles Darwin]

Don't start.

You made a thread about religion on an anonymous internet forum and didn't expect things to get out of hand?

 

[Essene]

You guys are taking the bait way to easily.

Make a troll work for it a little.

 

[Charles Darwin]

You guys are taking the bait way to easily.

Make a troll work for it a little.

My grammar-Nazi tendencies are flaring right now.

 

[Irish Football]

Everyone is a religion. Religion is a set of beliefs that will influence how you live your life. Atheism is a religion, though maybe atheists don't go to atheist church every Sunday lol

Except that religions represent a system of belief/worship that has been passed down through generations with the specific belief that it originally emanated from some higher being.

 

[Fivo]

The gym is my house of worship and I go there religiously

Thank you Based God

 

[La Presse]

You guys are taking the bait way to easily.

Make a troll work for it a little.

As a respected member of this community, I take a fence.

 

[Barley426]

I take a fence.

who did you take the fence from?

You made a thread about religion on an anonymous internet forum and didn't expect things to get out of hand?

+1

I am often introspective, and as a result, I am extra critical and bring outside information to judge certain portions of my faith. Does God really exist? Philosophy argues that using several arguments--ontological and epistemological come to mind. You can look that up.

Look that up? are you serious? I took a freshmen philosophy class too, cute attempt at being pedantic. You're missing my (and virtuoso735's) point, again, you may have quesitoned the logical truths behind your faith, but arguably most religious have not. I certainly have weighed the facts and employed logical deduction in making my mind up, and I reached a different conclusion than you, who cares.

Some serve as a framework to lead happy and successful lives. Others are based on premonition and prophecy, a lot of which has decent historical significance.

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? You feel your fiction -ahem- I mean biblical stories are necessary for "happy and successful lives" but I would disagree, but that's exactly the discussion you claim to be avoiding.

#pleasebepcinmythread

This is even cuter, You're either saying please be PC (as in politically correct) in my thread (which I doubt, since I have not said anything not-PC), or you're saying Please be peacin (as in peace-ing out of) my thread, which is equally ridiculous, you're not telling your religious cronies to get out of your thread, and they're laying down their beliefs.

 

[virtuoso735]

Would you say two people in love will stay together? I sure wouldn't. Love can propel people to have a child, but love is not always an all enduring feeling. Religion can give a couple the guidance to continue through and stay together granted it can fail too. There is no automatic cure, but love helps start relationships and family and there are rules in religions that help preserve it.

We still have many things the bible talks about (mainly the New Testament with cheating, stealing, lying), so I believe the Bible can still apply today.

Love doesn't make two people stay together, but neither does religion. Sure, religion can provide some kind of guidance or framework for a married couple, but that does not preclude the possibility of making rational decisions without religion. I would go so far as to say that more irrational relationship decisions have been made in the name of religion. Who needs a book to tell you what to do in order to stay in a relationship? Swans are mate for life, and so do certain species of fish. Is it because they read a magical book written by God?

I think there are great parables and moral points to be made in the New Testament, but that doesn't mean that atheists can't come up with their own moral code without relying on a book. Almost everyone can agree that murdering someone is bad, that you shouldn't steal, cheat, lie, etc. Why do you need a book to tell you that?

As I'm about to go on a long run, I probably won't be able to respond to any near-future comments, but I had to here before I run.

There is no new testament without the old testament. We wouldn't experience grace and forgiveness if we didn't have a whole book of laws that we can't fulfill ourself. I won't debate that Jesus set an ideal standard of how to live, because it's true. But to treat the new testament as simply a guide on how to live a better life shows a drastic misunderstanding of the new and old testaments along with the bible as a whole.

This only holds any truth if you actually believe what happened in the Bible is true. What exactly do we need forgiveness from? For some woman named Eve eating an apple? Wait, so God wants to punish the entire human race because a woman ate an apple? One that he placed on a "Tree of Knowledge" that he shouldn't even have put in the Garden of Eden in the first place? Wow, what a loving, forgiving God! Let's make it our life purpose to praise him and follow him blindly like sheep! That'll make God happy.

 

[ClemsonFirst]

Love doesn't make two people stay together, but neither does religion. Sure, religion can provide some kind of guidance or framework for a married couple, but that does not preclude the possibility of making rational decisions without religion. I would go so far as to say that more irrational relationship decisions have been made in the name of religion. Who needs a book to tell you what to do in order to stay in a relationship? Swans are mate for life, and so do certain species of fish. Is it because they read a magical book written by God?

I think there are great parables and moral points to be made in the New Testament, but that doesn't mean that atheists can't come up with their own moral code without relying on a book. Almost everyone can agree that murdering someone is bad, that you shouldn't steal, cheat, lie, etc. Why do you need a book to tell you that?

Well the Bible wasn't written for swans now was it.

I never said people cannot come up with their own belief system. Surely, you can come up with whatever belief system you want, but the Bible is just one way to look at it. I would agree that most of the stuff in the Bible is morally right. Have you seen the crime statistics in America. Clearly people do not share and follow many of the beliefs presented in the Bible. May if they did, there would be less crime. Just saying.

If you believe what is in the Bible, then you know God has a plan greater than causing grief because Eve at an apple; He used that to shape His plan. I'm not trying to stir up any debate about this, merely to educate the reason behind the actions.

 

[Dark Magician]

i smell the lcok coming soon.

 

[Charles Darwin]

Everyone is a religion. Religion is a set of beliefs that will influence how you live your life. Atheism is a religion, though maybe atheists don't go to atheist church every Sunday lol

Saying atheism is a religion is like saying abstinence is a sex position.

 

[virtuoso735]

Well the Bible wasn't written for swans now was it.

I never said people cannot come up with their own belief system. Surely, you can come up with whatever belief system you want, but the Bible is just one way to look at it. I would agree that most of the stuff in the Bible is morally right. Have you seen the crime statistics in America. Clearly people do not share and follow many of the beliefs presented in the Bible. May if they did, there would be less crime. Just saying.

If you believe what is in the Bible, then you know God has a plan greater than causing grief because Eve at an apple; He used that to shape His plan. I'm not trying to stir up any debate about this, merely to educate the reason behind the actions.

I would say most of the stuff out the New Testament works well as a moral system, but most of the Old Testament should be left to the desert herders who wrote it. I think things like turning the other cheek and loving your neighbor are great and all, but in the end people still pick and choose what they want to believe or apply to themselves, which kind of proves my point that people are able to make such judgments using their own minds. There are passages about stoning cheaters to death and passages about compassion for the downtrodden in the Bible, yet (sane) people don't stone cheaters to death. If everything in the Bible were taken as truth, why don't Christians stone cheaters to death? They pick and choose, which implies that they must have the ability to know what is right and wrong regardless of what the Bible says.

I believe you are implying that countries with greater atheist populations have more crime. Do you have any data backing that up? I'm pretty sure the Scandinavian countries have more atheists percentage-wise than the US, yet their crime rates are far below those of the US. Same with other European countries and Japan. Your argument doesn't hold water.

And using an apple to carry out God's plan. That sounds like a fairy tale to me.

 

[La Presse]

who did you take the fence from?

Cute Picture. That comment was made out of jest to mirror a similar mistake by the poster Essene.

Look that up? are you serious? I took a freshmen philosophy class too, cute attempt at being pedantic. You're missing my (and virtuoso735's) point, again, you may have quesitoned the logical truths behind your faith, but arguably most religious have not. I certainly have weighed the facts and employed logical deduction in making my mind up, and I reached a different conclusion than you, who cares.

You seem to know this, how? You keep reiterating it, but keep in mind I have a liberal arts background, where one is often urged to think critically about everything, despite their viewpoint. For you to keep saying that many religious people do not evaluate their beliefs is utterly boeotian. Why would they invest so much of their lives devoting to their beliefs and to praying and trying to connect with God for His purpose without taking a look at themselves first? You sure know a lot of people.

With the issue of me being pedantic, I am simply trying to lead you into a decent, cohesive reponse, which you have not given me yet.

What does this have to do with the price of tea in China? You feel your fiction -ahem- I mean biblical stories are necessary for "happy and successful lives" but I would disagree, but that's exactly the discussion you claim to be avoiding.

Outside of worship, if one takes a look at religious texts for analysis and discussion, there are often portions of the book that prophesy about things to come. As you read further, you will realize that some of these things---these fictional stories--are dangerously accurate. but of course, a lot of text loses its consistency and relevance through translation. The book of Revelation and Daniel in the h KJV of the Bible are prime examples. These predictions often often mirror the economic turmoil as well as the failed foreign policy implemented by every single administration to date. You might wanna take a look at that.

You really are not that smart. If you read my comment, I used the word "framework" as in template. This template can obviously be modified to suit your lifestyle. Leading a happy and successful life and being religious are not mutually exclusive. Religion is something people decide to pursue because they are touch with very divine experiences. I cannot argue those; they are felt, quite powerfully sometimes and can transform your entire perspective on the world.

But then again, those might just be coincidences.

This is even cuter, You're either saying please be PC (as in politically correct) in my thread (which I doubt, since I have not said anything not-PC), or you're saying Please be peacin (as in peace-ing out of) my thread, which is equally ridiculous, you're not telling your religious cronies to get out of your thread, and they're laying down their beliefs.

This was actually a joke that you did not get. In the seduction community, there is a concept of the average chump who never gets the girl because he refuses to escalate because he does not want to step on girl's toes and ends up essentially being politically correct. I made reference to wanting a lack of escalation in my thread a few posts above.

Yuh.

 

[iave9963]

no. I don't believe in anything and i hold myself to a high standard without deluding myself that anybody is looking over my shoulder. If you believe, or feel like you need to believe in order to be a good person, good for you, so long as you don't push it upon other people.

+1000

 

[myshisha]

Catholic. Religious. Freethinker. Rectifier.

 

[Narmerguy]

This is just a reminder that personal attacks are against the TOS and are not tolerated. Also, feel free to use the "ignore user" function for those users who bother you. Click on their user name next to the post and select the "ignore user" option. This will hide their posts from your view.

 

[Barley426]

You seem to know this, how? You keep reiterating it, but keep in mind I have a liberal arts background, where one is often urged to think critically about everything, despite their viewpoint.

For you to keep saying that many religious people do not evaluate their beliefs is utterly boeotian. Why would they invest so much of their lives devoting to their beliefs and to praying and trying to connect with God for His purpose without taking a look at themselves first? You sure know a lot of people.

Besides it being a logical stance, there have been studies showing that people who think critically are less religious. A very quick example would be:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-critical-thinkers-lose-faith-god

If you want a quick logical argument here: Think of how many people simply adopt the religion of their parents, or their culture... do you really think that would happen if most religious people started from a completely unbiased standpoint. Assessed all the reasons, evidence, logic, etc why to believe or not believe in god. Now, of all those people who decided to believe in god, did they sift through every religion that ever was critically and honestly, and just so happen to end up deciding that their parent's religion is the right one. Come on now.

With the issue of me being pedantic, I am simply trying to lead you into a decent, cohesive reponse, which you have not given me yet.

Oh sure, my responses have been illogical and incoherent.

Outside of worship, if one takes a look at religious texts for analysis and discussion, there are often portions of the book that prophesy about things to come. As you read further, you will realize that some of these things---these fictional stories--are dangerously accurate.

No they aren't, if you look hard enough you can say any conservative prophesy (i.e. not saying the world will blow up) with vague details and loose dates came true at one point.

but of course, a lot of text loses its consistency and relevance through translation.

Ha, you admit your biblical teachings are inconsistent and irrelevant.

The book of Revelation and Daniel in the h KJV of the Bible are prime examples. These predictions often often mirror the economic turmoil as well as the failed foreign policy implemented by every single administration to date.

I REALLY hope you're not talking about the bible predicting American politics. Even if you meant world policy, seriously, the bible predicted the failures of every administration ever? srsly?

You might wanna take a look at that.

At what? Irrelevant and irrelevant prophecies of mythology? I have already, and laughed, so no thanks.

Leading a happy and successful life and being religious are not mutually exclusive.

I agree, and leading a happy and successful life and not being religious are not mutually exclusive either.

This was actually a joke that you did not get. In the seduction community, there is a concept of the average chump who never gets the girl because he refuses to escalate because he does not want to step on girl's toes and ends up essentially being politically correct. I made reference to wanting a lack of escalation in my thread a few posts above.

Seduction community? Really? I just looked that up, that's pitiful. I'm proud to say I didn't get that "joke."

This is just a reminder that personal attacks are against the TOS and are not tolerated. Also, feel free to use the "ignore user" function for those users who bother you. Click on their user name next to the post and select the "ignore user" option. This will hide their posts from your view.

You really are not that smart.

Tisk Tisk. Although you're completely right, my 37Q backs you up on that. lol, no seriously, I'm not here to get into an extended debate, I have far more important things to do. My point from the beginning was just let people believe what they want, or not believe if they would rather. [/discussion]

 

[La Presse]

Besides it being a logical stance, there have been studies showing that people who think critically are less religious. A very quick example would be:

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=how-critical-thinkers-lose-faith-god

If you want a quick logical argument here: Think of how many people simply adopt the religion of their parents, or their culture... do you really think that would happen if most religious people started from a completely unbiased standpoint. Assessed all the reasons, evidence, logic, etc why to believe or not believe in god. Now, of all those people who decided to believe in god, did they sift through every religion that ever was critically and honestly, and just so happen to end up deciding that their parent's religion is the right one. Come on now.

Wow, did you really just lump an entire groups of people together? So, for example, those in the Jewish community who take on a lifestyle in conjunction with their religion, think less critically? The same can be said with several indigenous groups who practice any form of religion. I certainly do not need to posts links to show that many of these groups have historically been high achieving and pursuing very lucrative careers--which would require some critical thinking ability.


No they aren't, if you look hard enough you can say any conservative prophesy (i.e. not saying the world will blow up) with vague details and loose dates came true at one point.

If you care and have time, look up Nostradamus quatrains. His work has been cited in conjunction with several religious texts.

Ha, you admit your biblical teachings are inconsistent and irrelevant.

To an extent due to faulty translation, not the original material drafted by the author...Significant meaning is buried by language in this case.

I REALLY hope you're not talking about the bible predicting American politics. Even if you meant world policy, seriously, the bible predicted the failures of every administration ever? srsly?

Just look how you speculate....

At what? Irrelevant and irrelevant prophecies of mythology? I have already, and laughed, so no thanks.

How are they irrelevant if they are constantly referenced today, especially by many news sources and in many novels. They are just stories, right?

I agree, and leading a happy and successful life and not being religious are not mutually exclusive either.

Bet.

Seduction community? Really? I just looked that up, that's pitiful. I'm proud to say I didn't get that "joke."

I do a LOT of reading, so yeah...

Tisk Tisk. Although you're completely right, my 37Q backs you up on that. lol, no seriously, I'm not here to get into an extended debate, I have far more important things to do. My point from the beginning was just let people believe what they want, or not believe if they would rather. [/discussion]

Good work on that score. I'm proud of you.

.

 

[SpecterGT260]

I wouldnt necessarily boast that part of a liberal arts degree really conveys anything of use....

Nor would I tout my MCAT score as proof of my intelligene



y'all both lose!

 

[Doctor246853]

I am not hoping this thread suddenly blossom into a debate about agnostics or the usual mundane things people bicker about. I just wanted to know who uses religious components in their life, whether it be reading religious texts recreationally or participate in a weekly service/worship/devotion. It does not matter what religion. You may specify if you like.

Personally, I try to be religious in my own life because that was how I was brought up. I often reflect and make a lot of my decisions based on the moral truths that religion has bred in me since I was a child. In my culture, we hold God firmly and attend services and worship. We communicate with our creator in a way that is very personal with us, in hopes that he will make us grow into a better person.

Anybody?

Nope. Im a man of reason and logic.

 

[PikminOC]

Love isn't illogical. It's an evolutionary response that evolved so that we reproduce and stay with our partners, thereby increasing our fitness and that of our offspring. I suppose you could argue that religious feelings are also an evolutionary response; humans feel the need to belong to a group, to have a leader. But at this point in history, it's easy to be rational about religion because all the information to make an informed decision is readily accessible, whereas in the past people only had access to their religious leaders, or at the best, the religious text.

If this is true, then how do you explain Octomom, numerous single parent families we see on a daily basis, and the increased number of married people choosing NOT to have children? I know these numbers are more outliers, but they are still significant. Is our evolutionary response changing???

 

[SpecterGT260]

If this is true, then how do you explain Octomom, numerous single parent families we see on a daily basis, and the increased number of married people choosing NOT to have children? I know these numbers are more outliers, but they are still significant. Is our evolutionary response changing???

are you arguing that octomom's kids are more "fit"? I'd say probably not.... Fitness, in this sense, talks about the ability for the offspring to be successful by whatever measures you'd like. Those kids have an uphill battle ahead of them

 

[xXIDaShizIXx]

+4 Which makes my household very awkward, because everyone else in my family is/are devout Christians.

I know that feeling. Im from the deep south. Trying to get out and away from them ASAP.

 

[PikminOC]

I was trying to understand how the perceived "evolutionary response" to reproduce and raise children applies in today's society.

Thank goodness for Obama's handouts!

 

[Barley426]

La Presse, you clearly don't understand what I'm saying but I'll leave you with you epitomizing exactly what I'm saying.

...Personally, I try to be religious in my own life because that was how I was brought up....

 

[La Presse]

La Presse, you clearly don't understand what I'm saying but I'll leave you with you epitomizing exactly what I'm saying.

Of course I do. Everyone simply has the right to believe what they want. That is what you are saying in summary.

 

[Tipp]

I am a believer. I wasn't raised in Church, but I made the decision around high school and college that I wanted to serve God. There are many logical, reasonable people that become Christians of their own accord rather than doing so because their mom and dad said so.

Also, its important to remember that everyone has a worldview. Atheists have world views as well as Christians. The Bible encompasses a story that gives an answer for who we are, where we come from and what purpose we serve. Many of the atheists on this site and in general seem to think that faith in God is ridiculous and only a stupid person would believe, but this is not the case. There are millions of very intelligent people that choose to believe in God.

Jesus lived and died and rose again. That is simply a historical fact. Personally, I accept the rest of what the Bible says because I think that if Jesus was who he said he was, then the rest is true by necessity. The historical evidence is in favor of Jesus being the Son of God, so I accept the rest. There will be arguments to the contrary, but nothing is ever 100% and that is where faith comes in. However, solely based on factual evidence, I still think that Jesus is the way.

 

[Barley426]

There are millions of very intelligent people that choose to believe in God.

I agree with this, but that doesn't mean most intelligent people are religious or that most religious people are intelligent. One factoid that hurts your case is that the more educated people are, the less religious they are. You can argue education =/= intelligence and I would agree, but there is certainly a correlation

Jesus lived and died and rose again. That is simply a historical fact.

Uhmm.... No it isn't.

The historical evidence is in favor of Jesus being the Son of God, so I accept the rest.

Again, no it isn't.

Personally, I accept the rest of what the Bible says because I think that IF Jesus was who he said he was, then the rest is true by necessity.

That's a HUGE "if".

 

[Tipp]

Uhmm.... No it isn't.

Yes it is. By the standards that experts use to verify historical events, if this isn't true then nothing that we claim to know about our history is true. In which case we apparently know nothing about anything and this argument is useless.

 

[Tipp]

I am honestly not trying to have an argument about it. I just felt like the posts before mine made it seem like Christian's are inherently idiots, they only believe what they believe because it was passed on by their parents (not by thinking critically), and that the Bible is a fairy tale. That is just a juvenile way to approach a discussion like this. I am not an atheist, but I am not on here saying that people that don't believe in God are pure idiots with no critical thinking skills. What I am saying is that while our experience does actually make supernatural things seem absurd, an objective look at history points towards an unexpected result.

Anyway, I don't expect a few words on an internet forum to drastically change anyone's world view. I replied for the same reason that I would speak up if i overheard someone was saying lies about a friend at school or something like that. It is just the principle of it, and while most atheists reading this will shrug it off or take shots at me, some people might like to be reminded that being a Christian doesn't make them an idiot.

 

[KnuxNole]

Yes it is. By the standards that experts use to verify historical events, if this isn't true then nothing that we claim to know about our history is true. In which case we apparently know nothing about anything and this argument is useless.

What evidence is there that Jesus was real? I honestly never heard any concrete scientific studies on this