Argosy DC get its own exclusive APA accredited internship site approved

[Rationalthought]

Argosy DC just got its own APA accredited internship site. Only Argosy DC students can apply to site. Its APA match rate skyrocketed from low ~ 40% to 83% for 2014-2015 interns.

http://content.edmc.edu/assets/documents/au/psyd/washingtondc-psyd-outcomes.pdf

Clinical psychology internship program for American School of Professional Psychology at Argosy University, DC students. Intern/s placed at one of 10 member sites for entire year. Consortium Training Director/Associate Director direct entire program, MAIC operates as a learning community across all sites. Note that each site offers a broad range of generalist and speciality services, for both children and adults

It has 25 exclusive spots paying 22k each

https://membership.appic.org/directory/view/2018

Great to see Argosy is raising the bar in clinical training. Maybe For profit isnt as bad as we all thought.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[WisNeuro]

Not sure this is raising the bar. It's just assuring that students will get slots, whether or not they really deserve them. It just takes away another hurdle from an organization that has already taken away many hurdles. It's like the 400 hurdles, but you shorten it to 20 yards, and one hurdle that is only half as high. There are a lot of us out here that view captive internships as not necessarily a good thing.

 

[Rationalthought]

Its is definitely a step in the right direction. Its an APA accredited program that now possess an APA accredited internship program. Some may argue being for profit allows them to be more dynamic and better suited to meet the current economic needs. It last few years an APA accredited program and an accredited APA internship became the de facto prerequisite for most jobs in our field.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

We still need our Abraham Flexner moment, as a profession.

 

[WisNeuro]

It is definitely not a step in the right direction. APA accreditation is a very low bar that just keeps getting lower. There has never been a justification for the lowering of standards as our field operates at a surplus, with many metro areas saturated. What needs, exactly, is this answering?

And, man I would love a Flexner type thing to happen in psych. Too much money going from for profits to APA for that to happen, though.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

It may be a symptom of the strength (and allure) of our profession, though, wis...I went into psychology because of its many tentrils (historical, biological, mathematical, etc.). Maybe our profession is just too damn general to be marketable

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

tendrils...dang....I need some David Allen Coe to make me feel smart

 

[Rationalthought]

I believe there is an irrational disdain for "for profits". If they can provide first class clinical training and education then more power to them.

 

[WisNeuro]

I believe there is an irrational disdain for "for profits". If they can provide first class clinical training and education then more power to them.

And, by what metric are they providing "first class clinical training and education?"

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

the question mark itself is the best mark of an education

 

[WisNeuro]

Was curious, so I checked out Argosy DC's EPPP pass rate. 59%. Wow. That is definitely some first class education.

 

[Rationalthought]

It is definitely not a step in the right direction. APA accreditation is a very low bar that just keeps getting lower. There has never been a justification for the lowering of standards as our field operates at a surplus, with many metro areas saturated. What needs, exactly, is this answering?

And, man I would love a Flexner type thing to happen in psych. Too much money going from for profits to APA for that to happen, though.

In what way are standards being lowered? Do you have any proof of that? I am curious.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

the question mark itself is the best mark of an education

?

 

[WisNeuro]

In what way are standards being lowered? Do you have any proof of that? I am curious.

This information is readily available in indirect measures of success. Average GRE scores/GPA of admitted students, EPPP pass rate, APA Accredited match rate, average starting salary of graduating students, etc etc.

 

[WisNeuro]

?

Did you just quote yourself? Narcissist.

 

[Rationalthought]

Was curious, so I checked out Argosy DC's EPPP pass rate. 59%. Wow. That is definitely some first class education.

There are also PHD programs such as Auburn University with lower pass rates. Our profession has licensure for a reason.

 

[MCParent]

I'm willing to bet they applied for the graduate professional education funds to get internship, which means everyone else paid for that effort through their taxes. Wonderful.

 

[WisNeuro]

Auburn's clinical psychology PhD pass rate is 96.55%.

And, the EPPP is an embarrassingly easy test to obtain licensure.

 

[Rationalthought]

This information is readily available in indirect measures of success. Average GRE scores/GPA of admitted students, EPPP pass rate, APA Accredited match rate, average starting salary of graduating students, etc etc.

GRE/GPA are biased to non-traditional students and ethnic minorities. I dont feel they are an adequate measure of an individual's ability to perform our profession competently. Unless we just want to be an Ivory Tower profession that excludes people based on borderline discriminatory assessment metrics.....

 

[WisNeuro]

And EPPP pass rate, APA accredited match rate, and starting salaries, etc etc?? We can come up with whatever reasons we want for institutions with an alarmingly high number of students who shouldn't be in the field in the first place. These are simply excuses to justify a model that is damaging to our field and pumping high numbers of unprepared "professionals" into an already saturated market. Argosy/Alliant/Fielding do not give s **** about righting societal wrongs, they care about the billions of dollars they can secure in federal loan money.

 

[Rationalthought]

Auburn's clinical psychology PhD pass rate is 96.55%.

And, the EPPP is an embarrassingly easy test to obtain licensure.

Auburn's counseling PHD program has 58.82% rate

Gallaudet University Clinical program had 61.54%
Howard University an eminent HBCU was in the low 60s as well.

 

[LETSGONYR]

Argosy dc has had a captive internship for awhile... i'm curious if this is the same "consortium," except now with APA accreditation. I'm definitely in the camp of those who have always been against captive internships.

the EPPP is an embarrassingly easy test to obtain licensure.

I don't agree with this.... what makes you say that? It's not a perfect test by any stretch of the imagination, but embarrassingly easy? I'd say no.

 

[WisNeuro]

Auburn's counseling PHD program has 58.82% rate

Gallaudet University Clinical program had 61.54%
Howard University an eminent HBCU was in the low 60s as well.

How about we look past anecdotes. If we took the entire average of FSPS's against clinical PhD programs, what do you think would happen? What happens when you don't cherry pick a few bad programs?

 

[WisNeuro]

I don't agree with this.... what makes you say that? It's not a perfect test by any stretch of the imagination, but embarrassingly easy? I'd say no.

Mostly the fact that most reputable programs are at or near 100%. There is no discrimination if you came from a decent program. And, personal experience. I'd be ok with modifying it (take out I/O, include more clinical questions), but it's a very easy test. I'd be interested to see the advanced stats from prometric on this thing.

 

[Rationalthought]

And EPPP pass rate, APA accredited match rate, and starting salaries, etc etc?? We can come up with whatever reasons we want for institutions with an alarmingly high number of students who shouldn't be in the field in the first place. These are simply excuses to justify a model that is damaging to our field and pumping high numbers of unprepared "professionals" into an already saturated market. Argosy/Alliant/Fielding do not give s **** about righting societal wrongs, they care about the billions of dollars they can secure in federal loan money.

Or maybe they intend to just expand access. There are some well respected Physicians who attended "Caribbean" medical schools. The most important metric is if they perform competently once licensed. Many Universities are non-profit in name only with educators, administrators raking in big six figure salaries.. Without going off topic Argosy DC is providing a clinical internship training to its students that meets APA approval. Kudos to them.

 

[WisNeuro]

Or maybe they intend to just expand access.

There is no access problem in the field. What problem are they addressing? They are not "expanding the field." They are expanding certain people's bank accounts, while watering down the field at the same time.

 

[Rationalthought]

What is the minority class percentage in PHD programs

There is no access problem in the field. What problem are they addressing? They are not "expanding the field." They are expanding certain people's bank accounts, while watering down the field at the same time.

What is ethnic makeup of PHD programs particularly in regards to historically discriminated against groups? In fact, as a profession we are seriously lacking diversity. African Americans, Hispanics are very well underrepresented.

 

[LETSGONYR]

Mostly the fact that most reputable programs are at or near 100%. There is no discrimination if you came from a decent program. And, personal experience. I'd be ok with modifying it (take out I/O, include more clinical questions), but it's a very easy test. I'd be interested to see the advanced stats from prometric on this thing.

I'd argue that the fact most reputable programs' graduates pass it near 100% of the time is a good thing. I can't think of a reason why most graduates of good, reputable programs shouldn't be able to be licensed. I see your point, but I don't really think the licensing exam needs to distinguish between highly qualified and knowledgeable graduates. Isn't the fact that less reputable programs have pass rates <60% proof that it is already distinguishing between good/bad candidates to some extent?

Though... I'm totally with you on having more transparency re: advanced stats, as well as removing i/o and restructuring the test.

 

[WisNeuro]

What is the minority class percentage in PHD programs


What is ethnic makeup of PHD programs particularly in regards to historically discriminated against groups? In fact, as a profession we are seriously lacking diversity. African Americans, Hispanics are very well underrepresented.

Just for a second, we'll entertain that there is an issue in PhD programs. What's the minority class percentage in PsyD programs? Is it statistically different than Phd's?

 

[WisNeuro]

I'd argue that the fact most reputable programs' graduates pass it near 100% of the time is a good thing. I can't think of a reason why most graduates of good, reputable programs shouldn't be able to be licensed. I see your point, but I don't really think the licensing exam needs to distinguish between highly qualified and knowledgeable graduates. Isn't the fact that less reputable programs have pass rates <60% proof that it is already distinguishing between good/bad candidates to some extent?

I'm totally with you on having more transparency re: advanced stats, as well as removing i/o and restructuring the test though.

True, I can see that point. The thing is, there is no downfall to failing it over and over again, which most likely happens with the Argosy/Alliant/Fielding grads in most places. It's not like board cert in some states where if you fail X number of times you have to wait a good amount of time.

 

[Rationalthought]

I'd argue that the fact most reputable programs' graduates pass it near 100% of the time is a good thing. I can't think of a reason why most graduates of good, reputable programs shouldn't be able to be licensed. I see your point, but I don't really think the licensing exam needs to distinguish between highly qualified and knowledgeable graduates. Isn't the fact that less reputable programs have pass rates <60% proof that it is already distinguishing between good/bad candidates to some extent?

I'm totally with you on having more transparency re: advanced stats, as well as removing i/o and restructuring the test though.

The EPPP pass rate of PHD programs prove that PHD students continue to retain their ability to perform well on standardized tests

 

[Rationalthought]

Just for a second, we'll entertain that there is an issue in PhD programs. What's the minority class percentage in PsyD programs? Is it statistically different than Phd's?

I have no empirical evidence on that but anecdotal evidence suggests so.........

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Did you just quote yourself? Narcissist.

 

[WisNeuro]

I have no empirical evidence on that but anecdotal evidence suggests so.........

And therein lies the problem. The plural of anecdote is not data.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Did I just do that?

 

[WisNeuro]

Go home Fan_ofMeehl, you're drunk.

 

[Rationalthought]

Wichita State U.
Dept of Psych
Clinical-‐PhD
16
62.50%

 

[WisNeuro]

Seriously, do you understand how group statistics work?

Keep going though, just helps me prove my point.

 

[Rationalthought]

Seriously, do you understand how group statistics work?

Yes. I just felt the need to post that particular institution.

 

[LETSGONYR]

True, I can see that point. The thing is, there is no downfall to failing it over and over again, which most likely happens with the Argosy/Alliant/Fielding grads in most places. It's not like board cert in some states where if you fail X number of times you have to wait a good amount of time.

Agreed. The biggest downside I can think of is the cost. I took it earlier this year, and it set me back around $700... i'm glad I didn't have to take it more than once!

...but I admit that cost probably isn't as big of a consideration for people who are spending 6 figures for a degree from a FSPS.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I remember getting lost in the 'stacks' (journal and book stacks in the old library structure) and loving the sheet out of psychology, philosophy, etc... in undergrad...twas a good feeling

 

[WisNeuro]

I remember getting lost in the 'stacks' (journal and book stacks in the old library structure) and loving the sheet out of psychology, philosophy, etc... in undergrad...twas a good feeling

Hey, I still remember how to use a card catalog.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

Hey, I still remember how to use a card catalog.

I remember the yellow text on the blue background of the PsychInfo discs that were so cool in 1994

 

[WisNeuro]

I remember the yellow text on the blue background of the PsychInfo discs that were so cool in 1994

Back when floppy disks were still floppy?

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

wow...THAT is technology, lol

Back when floppy disks were still floppy?

lol...you never even call me by my name...

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

but I'll hang around as long as you will let me

 

[Pragma]

I got here late. What happened?

 

[WisNeuro]

Just us "Old Guard" members getting all uppity again.

 

[Fan_of_Meehl]

I got here late. What happened?

I was being far more silly than I should.

 

[Pragma]

Well, the idea of a captive site DOES help to get rid of all of that silly competition going on around in this field, doesn't it? Because competition between qualified candidates is wrong, right?