Arizona DO school and Scared of Racism

[Slack3r]

As a Hispanic, I urge you not to go to these schools if you have an alternative. Do not support anything that's within a racist state. Don't let other folks here confuse you about the reality of the law: it is racist, and if you support this state in any way, shape or form, you're tacitly supporting racism. Don't let them confuse you with their Bill O'Reilly/Rush Limbaugh catch phrases about this being about suspiciousness. Remember, in addition to this being racist, it is a violation of the spirit of the constitution: in Arizona you are guilty until you prove yourself innocent.

You're an idiot.

Try being of a minority group having to deal with racism as an on-going thing and then come back and school me on tolerance.


You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the law. The law as it was before Arizona's law, was that you could deport any criminal that was here illegally. The new law has nothing to do with that. The new law is about being able, as a cop, go to anyone that seems "suspicious" (aka Mexican) and force them to show their papers. There's already been a case of a man truck driving that showed his ID and social security number but got arrested because he didn't have his birth certificate with him. I'm am the racist? History will shame you.

Citation? Or did you just hear that on NPR?

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[TriagePreMed]

You live up to your name, Slacker. Find the law yourself, read it, and come to the obvious conclusions.

If you think the law is racist, then supporting that state is tacitly supporting racism. Do you know what tacitly means? When you're at the state, you'll exchange money. Money that's exchanged there has taxable implications. In other words, it will indirectly support the same system that's creating a racist environment. Nothing idiotic with logic.

 

[Atom bum]

I hear a lot of people talking about illegal immigrants abusing our medical system to get free care on the taxpayer's dime. I used to wonder about this as well till I started to volunteer in an ER.
Turns out, everyone is abusing the system. I am sure many of you also work or volunteer in an ER. Do you really notice a great deal of people coming in without insurance that look like they may be illegal immigrants?
I live in Utah so I am not isolated from immigration problems and it really seems like EVERYONE is coming in without insurance, not just immigrants.

 

[Bamish]

I hear a lot of people talking about illegal immigrants abusing our medical system to get free care on the taxpayer's dime. I used to wonder about this as well till I started to volunteer in an ER.
Turns out, everyone is abusing the system. I am sure many of you also work or volunteer in an ER. Do you really notice a great deal of people coming in without insurance that look like they may be illegal immigrants?
I live in Utah so I am not isolated from immigration problems and it really seems like EVERYONE is coming in without insurance, not just immigrants.

Well, I'm not going to say they "look like illegal immigrants", but being from CO and working in the ER at different hospitals over the span of quite a few years....I would say that at least 85% of the people abusing the system spoke no English and considering most had no SSN, I would guess that they were not citizens of this country.

There were people that I'm sure were citizens using the system too. I'm not sure they were abusing it though as their SSN was required and they were getting billed for services. Of course that doesn't mean they paid after being billed...

Anyway, the bulk of all of them should have been at a PCP, not an ER.

 

[DitchDoc73]

The new law is about being able, as a cop, go to anyone that seems "suspicious" (aka Mexican) and force them to show their papers.

I must have missed the "brown skin" provision in this law. I didn't realize the only illegal aliens in this country were mexicans...Oh wait they're not...And that is not the intent of the law, but I am sure that there will be a case where an overzealous cop IMPROPERLY applies the new law. And I am sure that every overzealous liberal will shove this down our throats as being an absolute fact that ALL cops do this.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Thanks for the assumptions.

No problem. At least mine are based in some form of factual information and reasonable assessment of your character.

Too bad for you I support gun rights and many other things that aren't "bleeding heart liberal" because I actually think on my own.

People, such as pathetic worker bees from Nor-Cal, who say they "think for themselves" then parrot liberal sound-bytes crack me up. It would be the equivalent of me claiming not to be a conservative and then paraphrasing Charlton Heston (if were on the subject of gun rights ).

Your example on LA and Jews is perfect

Thank you. I agree, it works ironically well.

I don't care how Obama would be treated in Mexico or anywhere else. It would speak poorly of other countries if they were hypocritical. It doesn't mean it gives us the right to be jerks too.

Again, supporting your country and defending our American ideal (in the senate, nonetheless) =/= "being jerks."

And yes, illegal immigration is a problem, but is actually also a benefit, which racists like you cannot see.

Are you honestly so dense that you don't see the irony in labeling me incorrectly as a knee-jerk reflex with absolutely no basis. Jesus, it must suck to be an idiot and misinformed.

I actually work in a community clinic and have a sociology major.

LOL. What do you know, I can respect you less.

Dude, you're a regular Oscar Zeta Acosta. Now you can add "tool" to "misinformed idiot."

I can tell you that the problem of drainage of resources doesn't come solely from illegal immigrants.

No one is claiming it does.

They come here to bust their ass off working to serve racists like you.

I'd be perfectly content to support a more expensive cost of living in general if every one of these "low paying jobs that no one wants" would go to some kid in high school or some tax paying citizen who lost his/her job due to the state of the economy.

Try signing up for government programs without proof of citizenship and then come back and tell me how easy it is and everyone can do it.

Why bother? It's much easier to wander into an ER for free medical care, get arrested and live off tax payers money in prison, work a job without paying into Medicare, Social security, etc, drive without going through the hassle of getting a license or auto insurance, ETC.

Plus, what did you say in that sentence ... try signing up for a "government" program without proof of "citizenship?" It's tough, huh? Umm ... great? It should be tough you *****. That big government you bastards love is supported by my dime, and those resources should be allocated for American citizens. Period. You don't see me wandering into Canada and bitching that I can't utilize their socialized medical system?

Plus, I'm sure it's impossible to have one citizen, on disability, welfare, etc, who lives with 10 illegals who, in return, benefit from these resources.

Honestly, I'm not sure if you can tell by now, but I really couldn't tell you to shut the hell up any harder. You're a pathetic, nor-Cal, bleeding heart, misinformed, stereotypical liberal. I'm sure you've lived off student loans, grants, etc your whole life, have never worked a real job, never paid taxes, and think you're some intellectual because you graduated from a UC with a sociology degree and now work in some clinic. Maybe someday when you grow up, you'll realize what a pain in the ass this really is, and do some soul searching. However, until then ... quit this reflex "everything is racist, but it's okay to label others incorrectly and skim facts" mentality. It, and you, are pathetic.

 

[DitchDoc73]

No problem. At least mine are based in some form of factual information and reasonable assessment of your character.



People, such as pathetic worker bees from Nor-Cal, who say they "think for themselves" then parrot liberal sound-bytes crack me up. It would be the equivalent of me claiming not to be a conservative and then paraphrasing Charlton Heston (if were on the subject of gun rights ).




Thank you. I agree, it works ironically well.




Again, supporting your country and defending our American ideal (in the senate, nonetheless) =/= "being jerks."




Are you honestly so dense that you don't see the irony in labeling me incorrectly as a knee-jerk reflex with absolutely no basis. Jesus, it must suck to be an idiot and misinformed.




LOL. What do you know, I can respect you less.

Dude, you're a regular Oscar Zeta Acosta. Now you can add "tool" to "misinformed idiot."





No one is claiming it does.



I'd be perfectly content to support a more expensive cost of living in general if every one of these "low paying jobs that no one wants" would go to some kid in high school or some tax paying citizen who lost his/her job due to the state of the economy.



Why bother? It's much easier to wander into an ER for free medical care, get arrested and live off tax payers money in prison, work a job without paying into Medicare, Social security, etc, drive without going through the hassle of getting a license or auto insurance, ETC.

Plus, what did you say in that sentence ... try signing up for a "government" program without proof of "citizenship?" It's tough, huh? Umm ... great? It should be tough you *****. That big government you bastards love is supported by my dime, and those resources should be allocated for American citizens. Period. You don't see me wandering into Canada and bitching that I can't utilize their socialized medical system?

Plus, I'm sure it's impossible to have one citizen, on disability, welfare, etc, who lives with 10 illegals who, in return, benefit from these resources.

Honestly, I'm not sure if you can tell by now, but I really couldn't tell you to shut the hell up any harder. You're a pathetic, nor-Cal, bleeding heart, misinformed, stereotypical liberal. I'm sure you've lived off student loans, grants, etc your whole life, have never worked a real job, never paid taxes, and think you're some intellectual because you graduated from a UC with a sociology degree and now work in some clinic. Maybe someday when you grow up, you'll realize what a pain in the ass this really is, and do some soul searching. However, until then ... quit this reflex "everything is racist, but it's okay to label others incorrectly and skim facts" mentality. It, and you, are pathetic.

+1

 

[TriagePreMed]

I must have missed the "brown skin" provision in this law. I didn't realize the only illegal aliens in this country were mexicans...Oh wait they're not...And that is not the intent of the law, but I am sure that there will be a case where an overzealous cop IMPROPERLY applies the new law. And I am sure that every overzealous liberal will shove this down our throats as being an absolute fact that ALL cops do this.

I wonder what world you live in where you don't realize how reality works. Wording things with technicalities and saying "their meaning is different" is equivalent to saying "separate but equal" meant to have the same facilities for blacks.

 

[TriagePreMed]

No problem. At least mine are based in some form of factual information and reasonable assessment of your character.



People, such as pathetic worker bees from Nor-Cal, who say they "think for themselves" then parrot liberal sound-bytes crack me up. It would be the equivalent of me claiming not to be a conservative and then paraphrasing Charlton Heston (if were on the subject of gun rights ).




Thank you. I agree, it works ironically well.




Again, supporting your country and defending our American ideal (in the senate, nonetheless) =/= "being jerks."




Are you honestly so dense that you don't see the irony in labeling me incorrectly as a knee-jerk reflex with absolutely no basis. Jesus, it must suck to be an idiot and misinformed.




LOL. What do you know, I can respect you less.

Dude, you're a regular Oscar Zeta Acosta. Now you can add "tool" to "misinformed idiot."





No one is claiming it does.



I'd be perfectly content to support a more expensive cost of living in general if every one of these "low paying jobs that no one wants" would go to some kid in high school or some tax paying citizen who lost his/her job due to the state of the economy.



Why bother? It's much easier to wander into an ER for free medical care, get arrested and live off tax payers money in prison, work a job without paying into Medicare, Social security, etc, drive without going through the hassle of getting a license or auto insurance, ETC.

Plus, what did you say in that sentence ... try signing up for a "government" program without proof of "citizenship?" It's tough, huh? Umm ... great? It should be tough you *****. That big government you bastards love is supported by my dime, and those resources should be allocated for American citizens. Period. You don't see me wandering into Canada and bitching that I can't utilize their socialized medical system?

Plus, I'm sure it's impossible to have one citizen, on disability, welfare, etc, who lives with 10 illegals who, in return, benefit from these resources.

Honestly, I'm not sure if you can tell by now, but I really couldn't tell you to shut the hell up any harder. You're a pathetic, nor-Cal, bleeding heart, misinformed, stereotypical liberal. I'm sure you've lived off student loans, grants, etc your whole life, have never worked a real job, never paid taxes, and think you're some intellectual because you graduated from a UC with a sociology degree and now work in some clinic. Maybe someday when you grow up, you'll realize what a pain in the ass this really is, and do some soul searching. However, until then ... quit this reflex "everything is racist, but it's okay to label others incorrectly and skim facts" mentality. It, and you, are pathetic.

You're an idiot quoting out of context. For example, you quote me saying it is tough to sign up for a government program. No **** it should be. Illegals shouldn't be using it. If you read the passage in context, it is to show that illegals can't just walk in and sign up for whatever they want and get it and are draining our system.

As for your "I rather pay more," good for you. First you'll have to find the labor. Arizona has lost a big chunk of its work force and is looking for a guest worker program now. Industries will lose millions of dollars because they can't find workers. High School kids can't work from 8 to 5 because they are supposed to be in school, but perhaps an elitist rat like you would rather have them working than getting an education. Companies have even tried hiring ex-convicts and that doesn't meet their needs.

The world works much more complicated than what mommy and daddy taught you and beyond the box of racism that you live in.

And by the way, while I don't label myself a "liberal," I would rather be one than a "conservative." Why anyone would like to be associated with a group known for racism and stupidity is beyond me.

 

[JaggerPlate]

You're an idiot quoting out of context. For example, you quote me saying it is tough to sign up for a government program. No **** it should be. Illegals shouldn't be using it. If you read the passage in context, it is to show that illegals can't just walk in and sign up for whatever they want and get it and are draining our system.

As for your "I rather pay more," good for you. First you'll have to find the labor. Arizona has lost a big chunk of its work force and is looking for a guest worker program now. Industries will lose millions of dollars because they can't find workers. High School kids can't work from 8 to 5 because they are supposed to be in school, but perhaps an elitist rat like you would rather have them working than getting an education. Companies have even tried hiring ex-convicts and that doesn't meet their needs.

The world works much more complicated than what mommy and daddy taught you and beyond the box of racism that you live in.

And by the way, while I don't label myself a "liberal," I would rather be one than a "conservative." Why anyone would like to be associated with a group known for racism and stupidity is beyond me.

Oh, you'd label yourself as a liberal, huh? Shocking. I didn't quote anything out of context. I actually quoted your entire paragraph, verbatim. You're just an idiot ... so it looks absurd when I blatantly correct you. Furthermore, your childish labeling of all conservatives as "racist and stupid" is so pathetically immature. Especially if your the example of the "other side." If you're reaching that hard, just give up. You're a very closed minded, misinformed, person who's lived in a nor-cal bubble your entire life. You think the social climate of Berkeley, SF, etc represents reality, and this makes your far more sheltered than you paint me to be.

Furthermore ... last time I checked, unemployment was at 9.9%. I find it hard to believe that people are suffering to find employees.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

As far as claiming I'd rather have children working than in school ... laughable. It's funny how you're so behind in this conversation that, in your school yard defense mechanism, you seriously portray me as some industrial revolution robber baron.

 

[mustang1]

All of your long posts bore the hell out of me. You are supposedly "busy" trying to get into med school, yet have the time to post novels in regards to a ridiculous post. I lived in eastern Europe for several years and was asked on a weekly basis for my I.D., visa etc. If you are illegal be scared if you are not get real. Five min. to present your I.D. is hardly a big deal.
P.S. I loved the pic of the guys standing outside home depot

 

[DitchDoc73]

I wonder what world you live in where you don't realize how reality works. Wording things with technicalities and saying "their meaning is different" is equivalent to saying "separate but equal" meant to have the same facilities for blacks.

Wow...so we have now progressed from Racism to Segregation....Grasping at straws maybe?

 

[TriagePreMed]

All of your long posts bore the hell out of me. You are supposedly "busy" trying to get into med school, yet have the time to post novels in regards to a ridiculous post. I lived in eastern Europe for several years and was asked on a weekly basis for my I.D., visa etc. If you are illegal be scared if you are not get real. Five min. to present your I.D. is hardly a big deal.
P.S. I loved the pic of the guys standing outside home depot

Obviously you don't understand the value of having rights. It's not about convenience. In America we used to think we had "innocent before proven guilty." Now as a matter of policy we have "guilty until proven innocent."

 

[christina30]

Obviously you don't understand the value of having rights. It's not about convenience. In America we used to think we had "innocent before proven guilty." Now as a matter of policy we have "guilty until proven innocent."

Actually, you're still innocent until proven guilty. I would call it "proof" of guilt if you can't provide your documentation.

If you want to know what it's like to live sans rights, perhaps you should try living somewhere like Iran.

 

[Slack3r]

You're an idiot quoting out of context. For example, you quote me saying it is tough to sign up for a government program. No **** it should be. Illegals shouldn't be using it. If you read the passage in context, it is to show that illegals can't just walk in and sign up for whatever they want and get it and are draining our system.

As for your "I rather pay more," good for you. First you'll have to find the labor. Arizona has lost a big chunk of its work force and is looking for a guest worker program now. Industries will lose millions of dollars because they can't find workers. High School kids can't work from 8 to 5 because they are supposed to be in school, but perhaps an elitist rat like you would rather have them working than getting an education. Companies have even tried hiring ex-convicts and that doesn't meet their needs.

The world works much more complicated than what mommy and daddy taught you and beyond the box of racism that you live in.

And by the way, while I don't label myself a "liberal," I would rather be one than a "conservative." Why anyone would like to be associated with a group known for racism and stupidity is beyond me.

Again, citation? And I have read the law and have yet to see a promotion of racism or any mention of Mexicans anywhere.

 

[TriagePreMed]

Actually, you're still innocent until proven guilty. I would call it "proof" of guilt if you can't provide your documentation.

If you want to know what it's like to live sans rights, perhaps you should try living somewhere like Iran.

Get real. When you get stopped for a traffic violation, does the cop ask you for proof that your house is up to code? Does he ask for proof that you paid your taxes (tax evasion is a crime)? Does he ask you for any proof outside of what's relevant to the traffic stop or relevant to the crime being investigated? No. Now they will ask you for your citizenship. Well, clearly not you because you're probably white, but to anyone brown that they may want to label "illegal." So, again, they will make you guilty until proven innocent. How will they even know who to ask? It's not even ask everyone stopped for any crime. It is those "suspicious" of being illegal here. That means brown people. Grow up and admit the obvious truth staring at your face.

 

[DitchDoc73]

Get real. When you get stopped for a traffic violation, does the cop ask you for proof that your house is up to code? Does he ask for proof that you paid your taxes (tax evasion is a crime)? Does he ask you for any proof outside of what's relevant to the traffic stop or relevant to the crime being investigated? No. Now they will ask you for your citizenship. Well, clearly not you because you're probably white, but to anyone brown that they may want to label "illegal." So, again, they will make you guilty until proven innocent. How will they even know who to ask? It's not even ask everyone stopped for any crime. It is those "suspicious" of being illegal here. That means brown people. Grow up and admit the obvious truth staring at your face.

Wow, your prejudices run so deep, you don't even realize that you are the racist on here...First and foremost, once again, "mexicans" and "brown" people are not the only illegal immigrants in this country. Once you come to realize this fact, maybe you will start to open your mind. Secondly, your examples are completely lacking substance, and show your lack of a grasp on reality. "When you get stopped for a traffic violation, does the cop ask you for proof that your house is up to code?" Of course not...But you are required to show ID, Registration, and Proof of Insurance. You can not show these items, and you become subject to further investigation... i.e. Prove who you are...Sound familiar???

 

[singinfifi]

Get real. When you get stopped for a traffic violation, does the cop ask you for proof that your house is up to code? Does he ask for proof that you paid your taxes (tax evasion is a crime)? Does he ask you for any proof outside of what's relevant to the traffic stop or relevant to the crime being investigated?

Well except for that pesky "license to drive" thing. If you don't show it, it's against the law. Also, (here's a fun thing not a lot of people know) you can get asked (at least in FL) to show your ID even if you aren't the one driving at a traffic stop. Failure to do so is...again...against the law. They also use your drivers license to check for current warrants that may be completely unrelated to a traffic stop.

 

[christina30]

Get real. When you get stopped for a traffic violation, does the cop ask you for proof that your house is up to code? Does he ask for proof that you paid your taxes (tax evasion is a crime)? Does he ask you for any proof outside of what's relevant to the traffic stop or relevant to the crime being investigated? No. Now they will ask you for your citizenship. Well, clearly not you because you're probably white, but to anyone brown that they may want to label "illegal." So, again, they will make you guilty until proven innocent. How will they even know who to ask? It's not even ask everyone stopped for any crime. It is those "suspicious" of being illegal here. That means brown people. Grow up and admit the obvious truth staring at your face.

First off, why should the color of my skin matter or affect my opinion? Secondly, why should anyone brown want to label it illegal? Because you're implying that all brown people are illegal or potentially so? Talk about racist.

What do you think "proof of citizenship" is? Drivers license, registration, proof of insurance... Most of these are pretty much impossible to get if you're an undocumented immigrant. I fail to see the illegality behind this law, and you are certainly not proving it. If you cannot produce those things, illegal immigrant or not, you will be arrested/cited. If you happen to be an illegal immigrant, it's only fair that you be turned over to INS. Don't be a *****.

 

[singinfifi]

I fail to see the illegality behind this law, and you are certainly not proving it.

It comes from the idea that only the federal government can make laws re: immigration. That's the only thing that's up for debate about it being "illegal" or "unconstitutional". If the FEDERAL government would make that law, there'd be no problem (legally). there may be no problem now, the jury is still out (so to speak). I'm just shocked at how many people are "outraged" at the thought of ENFORCING the fact that illegal immigration is....illegal. Thank God we don't treat assault that way. Can you imagine?

 

[christina30]

It comes from the idea that only the federal government can make laws re: immigration. That's the only thing that's up for debate about it being "illegal" or "unconstitutional". If the FEDERAL government would make that law, there'd be no problem (legally). there may be no problem now, the jury is still out (so to speak). I'm just shocked at how many people are "outraged" at the thought of ENFORCING the fact that illegal immigration is....illegal. Thank God we don't treat assault that way. Can you imagine?

Well, yeah, but that's a totally different subject. I meant illegal from TriagePreMed's point of view - that it's illegal because it promote racial profiling/discrimination.

I find it funny that this is a state law, and most of the population of Arizona seems to support it, but there's all these idiots from other states protesting it - as if Arizona gives a **** what we have to say in New York? Get over yourselves, people!

 

[TriagePreMed]

First off, why should the color of my skin matter or affect my opinion? Secondly, why should anyone brown want to label it illegal? Because you're implying that all brown people are illegal or potentially so? Talk about racist.

What do you think "proof of citizenship" is? Drivers license, registration, proof of insurance... Most of these are pretty much impossible to get if you're an undocumented immigrant. I fail to see the illegality behind this law, and you are certainly not proving it. If you cannot produce those things, illegal immigrant or not, you will be arrested/cited. If you happen to be an illegal immigrant, it's only fair that you be turned over to INS. Don't be a *****.

Wow, your prejudices run so deep, you don't even realize that you are the racist on here...First and foremost, once again, "mexicans" and "brown" people are not the only illegal immigrants in this country. Once you come to realize this fact, maybe you will start to open your mind. Secondly, your examples are completely lacking substance, and show your lack of a grasp on reality. "When you get stopped for a traffic violation, does the cop ask you for proof that your house is up to code?" Of course not...But you are required to show ID, Registration, and Proof of Insurance. You can not show these items, and you become subject to further investigation... i.e. Prove who you are...Sound familiar???

Yes, I am the racist against my own people. Good job. You two win a cookie.

When a cop stops you for not having a license in California, they give you a citation and take your car. They don't go and assume you must be an illegal immigrant. As far as I know, Arizona has similar laws to California on this. Except now if you don't provide it, you --could-- automatically be labelled an illegal immigrant. Who would these "could" fall to? The brown people. Not your white guy with a Midwest accent.

If you are arrested, and this is the case in California and I support it, part of the judgment involves checking citizenship of ALL people arrested. If they happen to be here illegally, they get deported to wherever. This is reasonable, sensible law because it doesn't allow for racial profiling and it is done for our safety against criminals. This is not the case with Arizona and their new law where a cop could say "well, I didn't ask this white guy because I didn't think he looked illegal, but this brown guy, I mean, come on!"

 

[JaggerPlate]

"well, I didn't ask this white guy because I didn't think he looked illegal, but this brown guy, I mean, come on!"

Are you just going to keep screaming this illogical, emotion based opinion, despite the fact that multiple people have demonstrated how this is untrue? Emotional, unfounded opinion < facts.

 

[jslo85]

I'm beginning to see a pattern where any thread that Jagger posts 4+ times in will degrade into a bitter emotional verbal argument of attrition.

Anyway, carry on, I'm sufficiently amused because it's threads like these that make SDN a blackhole of my time.

 

[JaggerPlate]

I'm beginning to see a pattern where any thread that Jagger posts 4+ times in will degrade into a bitter emotional verbal argument of attrition.

Anyway, carry on, I'm sufficiently amused because it's threads like these that make SDN a blackhole of my time.

Yeah, you're right ... I look for fights. Being labeled as "Mr white racist," who was raised in a "bubble of ignorance and racism" had absolutely nothing to do with my objection.

Keep in mind that absolutely no one cares about your opinion, amusement, or witty remarks. If you have something valid to say ... go for it. If not, feel free to use SDN as a time waster, but don't make these little quips to me.

 

[DitchDoc73]

I'm beginning to see a pattern where any thread that Jagger posts 4+ times in will degrade into a bitter emotional verbal argument of attrition.

Anyway, carry on, I'm sufficiently amused because it's threads like these that make SDN a blackhole of my time.

 

[DitchDoc73]

Except now if you don't provide it, you --could-- automatically be labelled an illegal immigrant. Who would these "could" fall to? The brown people. Not your white guy with a Midwest accent.

Like I said...I must have missed the portion of the law that states that it can and will only be applied to "brown" people as you insist. Does that mean if you are a "brown" person with a midwest accent, that you are also exempt from this law? What about a white person with a hispanic accent? These examples are just as ridiculous as your claims! Oh, and I prefer an oatmeal raisin cookie!

 

[DitchDoc73]

It comes from the idea that only the federal government can make laws re: immigration. That's the only thing that's up for debate about it being "illegal" or "unconstitutional". If the FEDERAL government would make that law, there'd be no problem (legally). there may be no problem now, the jury is still out (so to speak). I'm just shocked at how many people are "outraged" at the thought of ENFORCING the fact that illegal immigration is....illegal. Thank God we don't treat assault that way. Can you imagine?

Arizona did not make a law that changes anything in the federal government's immigration laws. It just allows the police (instead of just INS/CBP) to enforce these laws, where in the past they could not. That's why most of the constitutional challenges to this law have been dismissed...

Sorry for the multiple responses...Was feeling too lazy to do a multi-quote...

 

[randomusername]

Yes, I am the racist against my own people.

I figured all Americans were one people, regardless of any other means of identification or ideological disagreements. I guess skin color must trump nationality...

 

[TriagePreMed]

I figured all Americans were one people, regardless of any other means of identification or ideological disagreements. I guess skin color must trump nationality...

To say "one's people" depends on the context that you're speaking in. If we were talking about animals vs plants, my people would include bears and cats and iguanas. In this case we are talking about specific racial subdivisions that can't be denied to exist.

Are you just going to keep screaming this illogical, emotion based opinion, despite the fact that multiple people have demonstrated how this is untrue? Emotional, unfounded opinion < facts.

Not a single one of you has demonstrated anything. What some of you have done is deny the obvious racial profiling that will happen because the law doesn't explicitly say "you must racially profile."

Like I said...I must have missed the portion of the law that states that it can and will only be applied to "brown" people as you insist. Does that mean if you are a "brown" person with a midwest accent, that you are also exempt from this law? What about a white person with a hispanic accent? These examples are just as ridiculous as your claims! Oh, and I prefer an oatmeal raisin cookie!

Only way it seems ridiculous to you is because you think the only way this can lead to racial profiling is if it is explicitly written as being racial profiling. I guess "reading in between lines" is an expression you can't figure out. You have to seriously be ******ed to believe that this law doesn't do this. Why don't you explain to me what exactly means to look "suspicious" of being an illegal immigrant? If say 2 people are stopped for a BS "crime" like loitering and don't have their "proof" of citizenship (we will define an Arizona ID as proof for now), do you honestly believe the treatment will be equal between stopping a white person with a Midwest accent and a brown person with a Spanish accent? White people will likely be let go and the brown person will likely have to spend time in jail until he proves that he's innocent. We can even go back one step. If 2 people are stopped for loitering, who will the cop likely believe is "suspicious" of being an illegal immigrant? The white or the brown person?

 

[JaggerPlate]

Not a single one of you has demonstrated anything. What some of you have done is deny the obvious racial profiling that will happen because the law doesn't explicitly say "you must racially profile."

Does the law mention race once?? I'm convinced you're the one who hasn't demonstrated anything. You're coming at it using the standard, knee-jerk, "racist, racist!" angle, but have absolutely zero concrete evidence. You then make statements like "obvious racial profiling" and accuse me of being a "white racist." It seems like you're having a simple emotional reaction, not a logical, fact based response.

 

[DitchDoc73]

To say "one's people" depends on the context that you're speaking in. If we were talking about animals vs plants, my people would include bears and cats and iguanas. In this case we are talking about specific racial subdivisions that can't be denied to exist.


Not a single one of you has demonstrated anything. What some of you have done is deny the obvious racial profiling that will happen because the law doesn't explicitly say "you must racially profile."


Only way it seems ridiculous to you is because you think the only way this can lead to racial profiling is if it is explicitly written as being racial profiling. I guess "reading in between lines" is an expression you can't figure out. You have to seriously be ******ed to believe that this law doesn't do this. Why don't you explain to me what exactly means to look "suspicious" of being an illegal immigrant? If say 2 people are stopped for a BS "crime" like loitering and don't have their "proof" of citizenship (we will define an Arizona ID as proof for now), do you honestly believe the treatment will be equal between stopping a white person with a Midwest accent and a brown person with a Spanish accent? White people will likely be let go and the brown person will likely have to spend time in jail until he proves that he's innocent. We can even go back one step. If 2 people are stopped for loitering, who will the cop likely believe is "suspicious" of being an illegal immigrant? The white or the brown person?

I believe in your cases presented that ALL persons would be held until their identities could be confirmed...AS IS STANDARD PRACTICE NOW. The only difference is that if they can not confirm their identity as being a legal citizen, they will be held and referred to INS / CBP for a hearing on their citizenship status. The only prejudice is in your head. You believe that laws are enforced differently solely on race, and that just isn't true...

 

[christina30]

Yes, I am the racist against my own people. Good job. You two win a cookie.

When a cop stops you for not having a license in California, they give you a citation and take your car. They don't go and assume you must be an illegal immigrant. As far as I know, Arizona has similar laws to California on this. Except now if you don't provide it, you --could-- automatically be labelled an illegal immigrant. Who would these "could" fall to? The brown people. Not your white guy with a Midwest accent.

If you are arrested, and this is the case in California and I support it, part of the judgment involves checking citizenship of ALL people arrested. If they happen to be here illegally, they get deported to wherever. This is reasonable, sensible law because it doesn't allow for racial profiling and it is done for our safety against criminals. This is not the case with Arizona and their new law where a cop could say "well, I didn't ask this white guy because I didn't think he looked illegal, but this brown guy, I mean, come on!"

If, during a routine traffic stop or an arrest, you cannot provide proof (i.e: a DRIVERS LICENSE or any other government issued ID) then it can be assumed that you may be an illegal immigrant, REGARDLESS OF RACE. You're totally twisting the facts here to fit your agenda. It's the exact same thing in both situations that you're describing.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Ditch and Christina summed it up perfectly in the above two posts

 

[JoyceMD]

I smell Liberal agenda. You are not a pre-med student and if you were I think the AZ schools would do just fine without you! The majority of Americans agree with this law. The CITIZENS of AZ asked for it. That's called Democracy I would love to have this law in NY.

 

[Slack3r]

 

[singinfifi]

I smell Liberal agenda. You are not a pre-med student and if you were I think the AZ schools would do just fine without you! The majority of Americans agree with this law. The CITIZENS of AZ asked for it. That's called Democracy I would love to have this law in NY.

Me too! and if not, there's always

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/lo...go-masks-arizona-miami-052410,0,1300419.story

I swear. I'm not making this up, but when I saw this I thought to myself "what a perfect thing for that poor premed!"

 

[mangareader]

Look out Arizona, this is on the horizon.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/eduardo-caraballo-puerto-rico-deportion-94795779.html

Great job. Let us take away more rights from the people so we can try to "solve" a problem.

I live in Texas and while I think illegal immigration is a problem, I believe it should be curbed with a different method.

While I am not latino, I don't like the idea of a community feeling hassled over another simply due to their appearance.

 

[JaggerPlate]

Look out Arizona, this is on the horizon.

http://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local-beat/eduardo-caraballo-puerto-rico-deportion-94795779.html

Great job. Let us take away more rights from the people so we can try to "solve" a problem.

I live in Texas and while I think illegal immigration is a problem, I believe it should be curbed with a different method.

While I am not latino, I don't like the idea of a community feeling hassled over another simply due to their appearance.

Can I simply mention one thing ...

Of course this wasn't handled ideally, but this man wasn't tackled while walking down the street ... he was arrested for his involvement in stealing a car. All I'm saying is that he wasn't picked up off the street because of his "Latino features" he was arrested for felony theft. People who see this as a connection to the AZ law simply want to do so.

 

[christina30]

Can I simply mention one thing ...

Of course this wasn't handled ideally, but this man wasn't tackled while walking down the street ... he was arrested for his involvement in stealing a car. All I'm saying is that he wasn't picked up off the street because of his "Latino features" he was arrested for felony theft. People who see this as a connection to the AZ law simply want to do so.

Not just that - it has nothing to do with Arizona, they were grasping for straws trying to make a connection with the new Arizona law. This happened in Chicago, where they have NO SUCH LAW.

What a pointless link to post! If these so-called problems are occurring in states that don't have such laws, then what difference does the Arizona law make? It's obviously not creating them, like they're trying to claim.

 

[randomusername]

You have a fundamental misunderstanding of the law. The law as it was before Arizona's law, was that you could deport any criminal that was here illegally. The new law has nothing to do with that. The new law is about being able, as a cop, go to anyone that seems "suspicious" (aka Mexican) and force them to show their papers. There's already been a case of a man truck driving that showed his ID and social security number but got arrested because he didn't have his birth certificate with him. I'm am the racist? History will shame you.

Perhaps the biggest fundamental misunderstanding of the law, is that it doesn't become active law until July 28.

 

[cbrons]

I saw that a new law passed in Arizona where cops can stop you and ask for your immigration papers if you look Latino.
I am planning to attend DO school in Arizona, either ATSU or AZCOM. I havent decided which one yet.

I am a GIRL and scared that I will be discriminated in this state now since I look Latino.

Anyone else a minority and scared of attending DO school in this state because of this new law?

Will I face discrimination in ATSU or AZCOM?

Am I the only one whose troll-o-meter went off at full blast after reading this?

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

 

[cbrons]

Illegal aliens are bankrupting states all over the country and the second one border state hit hardest by the invasion stands up and says something you have the usual race baiters marching thru the streets with the megaphones (al sharptongue) already. What a country. Let's just open the borders and go bankrupt, that'd be more tolerant.

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

 

[Kramerica]

Thought this was relevant:

 

[drctother]

How is this forum still open?!

This is a forum of people going back and forth bitching. SHUT UP. If you are afraid of racism go some where else other than Arizona (since apparently its "racist"), if you cant then suck it up and do something about it. Dont bitch over a forum. If someone says something racist to you, crack them in the head. Done

Stop with these stupid racist theories. Racism is everywhere, deal with it

 

[drctother]

Am I the only one whose troll-o-meter went off at full blast after reading this?

Sent on the Sprint® Now Network from my BlackBerry®

Agreed. I can see her point little horns from over here

 

[JaggerPlate]

Agreed. I can see her point little horns from over here

Yup. First thing I said ... sigh.

 

[Colonol Forbin]

I'm beginning to see a pattern where any thread that Jagger posts 4+ times in will degrade into a bitter emotional verbal argument of attrition.

Anyway, carry on, I'm sufficiently amused because it's threads like these that make SDN a blackhole of my time.

It is so very true,

While I don't have strong opinions, I actually agree more with jagger's pov in regards to this law (although i certainly understand and respect the other side of the argument) - but the way he responds to people - man is this guy an arrogant SOB, he must be one of the most miserable people in real life -
unbelievable

(here comes the heavy jagger flaming in 3,2,1...)

 

[christina30]

It is so very true,

While I don't have strong opinions, I actually agree more with jagger's pov in regards to this law (although i certainly understand and respect the other side of the argument) - but the way he responds to people - man is this guy an arrogant SOB, he must be one of the most miserable people in real life -
unbelievable

(here comes the heavy jagger flaming in 3,2,1...)

Keep your personal attacks out of the threads, it's completely unnecessary and irrelevant to the conversation at hand.

There are plenty of people on SDN who would have far worse things to say about your character, I'm sure.

 

[Colonol Forbin]

How dare he is correct - he's fighting the law so vehemently because he doesn't want all of those people back in his country. He wants us to keep the criminals on OUR side of the fence.

The only racist here is you, sir.

Jaggers sidekick christina to the rescue, you two miseries should seriously consider dating in real life...You can both argue over who is most miserable and bitter after a long days work at the hospital

Personal attacks - your calling someone a racist, as your freind jagger called others pathetic - yet your calling me out for personal attacks? practice what you preach