"Arizona Republicans File Bill to Punish Abortion Doctors with the Death Penalty"

[Lawpy]

What? Like almost every guy in this thread is pro-choice or pro-life but not anti-choice. Of the people who are pro-life, I think there is like a single person who is anti-choice.

And no, being a man does not make your argument on abortion invalid. It’s not intellectually honest to say men who disagree with me have no argument, but the ones who do are okay. Either they all do or they all don’t.

There was at least one guy (not you) suggesting an abortion ban was justified, which i thought was absurd and infuriating.

I mean yes everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the antichoice lawmakers in OP and far many antichoicers are guys who want to decide what a woman should or shouldn't do with her body (all while ridiculously sexualizing women). I blame much of this on underlying sexism of society and sheer misogyny, which is why i have bit of frustration towards prolife guys unless they can relate directly from personal experiences through their SOs

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[curbsideconsult]

I think that is probably more due to the excessively long debate about the death penalty than anything else.

Or are you arguing that men can’t have an opinion on abortion? Also, almost every man on this thread is either pro-choice or not anti-choice.

Nowhere in my statement was there anything remotely like an argument nor, if it were an argument, did I say men can't have an opinion on abortion. It was just an interesting observation.

Are you implying that women can't argue about the death penalty? /s

 

[curbsideconsult]

I’m a woman. I was just sleeping, and then not on SDN.

Hence why I said "majority" and not "all."

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

There was at least one guy (not you) suggesting an abortion ban was justified, which i thought was absurd and infuriating.

I mean yes everyone is entitled to their opinion, but the antichoice lawmakers in OP and far many antichoicers are guys who want to decide what a woman should or shouldn't do with her body (all while ridiculously sexualizing women). I blame much of this on underlying sexism of society and sheer misogyny, which is why i have bit of frustration towards prolife guys unless they can relate directly from personal experiences through their SOs

Again. There was like one person. Maybe two tops. Everyone else in this thread agrees with you.

Nowhere in my statement was there anything remotely like an argument nor, if it were an argument, did I say men can't have an opinion on abortion. It was just an interesting observation.

Are you implying that women can't argue about the death penalty? /s

That’s why I asked. Don’t just assume a question is loaded. I wanted to know if your observation was a thinly veiled argument or just an observation so I wouldn’t be tilting against windmills.

 

[Lawpy]

Again. There was like one person. Maybe two tops. Everyone else in this thread agrees with you.


That’s why I asked. Don’t just assume a question is loaded. I wanted to know if your observation was a thinly veiled argument or just an observation so I wouldn’t be tilting against windmills.

Plus the lawmakers in the OP

 

[FutureInternist]

Arizona Republicans File Bill to Punish Abortion Doctors with the Death Penalty

So much for the sanctity of life.

friendlyatheist.patheos.com

Nothing quite says pro life like the death penalty

Republicans are pro-birth, NOT pro-life.

Once a baby is born they do everything in their power to keep the child from getting fed, clothed, educated properly.

F’ them !!!

 

[Crayola227]

Also my choice of wording talking about embryos is on purpose. Depending on the source you read, it's an embryo until 10-12 weeks. I'm not advocating for willy nilly removal of these things past that time period. If you're going to terminate it, I think again for ethical reasons you should do it much earlier than later.

Sorry, but no. No one in this thread caused her to have a miscarriage. It’s okay to be pissed off and sad, but we are adults. If you want to argue your position, then you can do it without implying everyone who disagrees with you is stupid.

And my wife had a miscarriage and disagreed with cray’s argument.

I was making a statement about a fertilized chicken egg that NO ONE else here said, and said that it was a stupid statement.

I'm sorry if there were people here who thought it was a smart statement and took it personally, but I didn't think anyone would or did.

 

[Crayola227]

Sorry, but no. No one in this thread caused her to have a miscarriage. It’s okay to be pissed off and sad, but we are adults. If you want to argue your position, then you can do it without implying everyone who disagrees with you is stupid.

And my wife had a miscarriage and disagreed with cray’s argument.

My only point in bringing that up, is that one minute we tell women "don't worry, you didn't lose a baby, it wasn't developed that far and you can see this as the loss of a clump of cells" when she wants it, but if she doesn't now she's killing a baby.

And the equating of embryos with being a baby is not just a way to harm the pro-choice movement, was my point. It harms the women we think are doing the "right" thing wanting to keep their embryo.

 

[Crayola227]

I think my point about about how killing fertilized chicken eggs =/= killing a chicken, must-have hit a nerve. Seriously, on it's face we can't see how that can't possibly be the same thing? If we do see this obvious point, then yeah, I'm going to label it as ridiculous.

 

[sunshinefl]

My only point in bringing that up, is that one minute we tell women "don't worry, you didn't lose a baby, it wasn't developed that far and you can see this as the loss of a clump of cells" when she wants it, but if she doesn't now she's killing a baby.

And the equating of embryos with being a baby is not just a way to harm the pro-choice movement, was my point. It harms the women we think are doing the "right" thing wanting to keep their embryo.

I’ve never said that or heard that said to a woman miscarrying.

 

[Crayola227]

No one is causing my miscarriage, hardly my point. But anyone trying to tell me embryos are babies with human rights, rights that trump my choice to remove them from being hosted in my body at a very early stage of development, are fostering an attitude I find harmful to me and other women.

Equating embryos as living babies is not helpful to anyone. It is grossly misrepresenting what it represents objectively and scientifically.

Fertilized eggs are "lives" Mother Nature tosses away at a rate of 50%. But God forbid that when someone at 5 weeks along before it can be seen on ultrasound, doesn't have organs or a heartbeat, decides they are not going to continue to risk their life for this thing, just because it meets scientific criteria as something alive. Although not independently so, for whatever that's worth.

 

[sunshinefl]

No one is causing my miscarriage, hardly my point. But anyone trying to tell me embryos are babies with human rights, rights that trump my choice to remove them from being hosted in my body at a very early stage of development, are fostering an attitude I find harmful to me and other women.

Equating embryos as living babies is not helpful to anyone. It is grossly misrepresenting what it represents objectively and scientifically.

Fertilized eggs are "lives" Mother Nature tosses away at a rate of 50%. But God forbid that when someone at 5 weeks along before it can be seen on ultrasound, doesn't have organs or a heartbeat, decides they are not going to continue to risk their life for this thing, just because it meets scientific criteria as something alive. Although not independently so, for whatever that's worth.

In my role as a healthcare provider, I would follow the patients lead as to what to call the entity during their miscarriage.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

I’ve never said that or heard that said to a woman miscarrying.

Not that exact wording, but the sentiment is there

 

[Crayola227]

What? If they are completely under general anesthesia, they aren’t feeling anything.



And what if they can’t? What should happen to the guy who murders, is “rehabilitated” and then murders again?

For the record they are not under "general." They are heavily sedated with some hardcore benzos/barbies iirc.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

For the record they are not under "general." They are heavily sedated with some hardcore benzos/barbies iirc.

Yeah I don’t know what they actually use.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I think my point about about how killing fertilized chicken eggs =/= killing a chicken, must-have hit a nerve. Seriously, on it's face we can't see how that can't possibly be the same thing? If we do see this obvious point, then yeah, I'm going to label it as ridiculous.

Actually when I was reading the thread I for some reason transposed when posts occurred and thought you were making an argument against sunshine and implying her argument was dumb.

 

[Lawpy]

Honestly if the patriarchy is destroyed and sexism is eliminated, i'll seriously discuss prolife vs prochoice discussions from a more legal standpoint.

 

[JustPaws]

I’ve never said that or heard that said to a woman miscarrying.

This may be your experiencen but mine differs. During my ectopic at a fertility clinic everything was specifically phrased differently as they counseled me towards MTX. I am still grieving for the child I did not get to have but am still staunchly pro-choice.

 

[JustPaws]

From the outside, yes. I am just asking the mother to take give the fetus some regard and make a thoughtful choice.

I hope that when you say this you are aware you are talking about a very small minority, if any that aren't making a thoughtful choice. I would say the majority, by far, of women choosing abortion have weighed that decision heavily.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

You would be incorrect. During my ectopic at a fertility clinic everything was specifically phrased differently as they counseled me towards MTX. I am still grieving for the child I did not get to have but am still staunchly pro-choice.

I don't mean to nitpick, but you can't be sure that their personal experience with this is incorrect. They didn't say it never happens, they said they have never said/heard anything like that personally.

 

[JustPaws]

I don't mean to nitpick, but you can't be sure that their personal experience with this is incorrect. They didn't say it never happens, they said they have never said/heard anything like that personally.

True. I took the comment to mean that they believed it never happens based on their personal experience. My comment was based on that so I may have interpreted it incorrectly

 

[Lawpy]

Any attempts to shut down and restrict a woman's right to choose should be severely condemned. Get rid of this antichoice, misogynistic crap now.

 

[sunshinefl]

This may be your experiencen but mine differs. During my ectopic at a fertility clinic everything was specifically phrased differently as they counseled me towards MTX. I am still grieving for the child I did not get to have but am still staunchly pro-choice.

Well as I said as a provider I would/do refer to the entity in the manner the mother would like to. I think it would be hurtful and dismissive to say to a woman who felt excited about her pregnancy and immensely sad at a loss to say “oh don’t worry it’s just a clump of cells” if the mother feels more like “that’s my baby”.

 

[sunshinefl]

Well as I said as a provider I would/do refer to the entity in the manner the mother would like to. I think it would be hurtful and dismissive to say to a woman who felt excited about her pregnancy and immensely sad at a loss to say “oh don’t worry it’s just a clump of cells” if the mother feels more like “that’s my baby”.

AKA I would let the woman define the meaning and follow her lead.

 

[Crayola227]

That's good in theory, but you also have women making choices that can lead to their death for a pregnancy that isn't viable because of the belief that if the egg was fertilized, it's a baby. It's hard not to challenge beliefs that are subjective, not supported by science or what we can predict will happen, so basically erronoeous beliefs that can lead to senseless death all for zero chance of payoff. In the scenarios I'm thinking of, it's not like NOT terminating has any chance of leading to a live birth. That is a hard lead to follow, and it's hard not to challenge the belief in hopes that you might persuade them to look at it another way so they don't die.

 

[Crayola227]

I think the way we look at miscarriages/abortions perpetuates a lot of trauma for women but that's a separate rant.

 

[JustPaws]

That's good in theory, but you also have women making choices that can lead to their death for a pregnancy that isn't viable because of the belief that if the egg was fertilized, it's a baby. It's hard not to challenge beliefs that are subjective, not supported by science or what we can predict will happen, so basically erronoeous beliefs that can lead to senseless death all for zero chance of payoff. In the scenarios I'm thinking of, it's not like NOT terminating has any chance of leading to a live birth. That is a hard lead to follow, and it's hard not to challenge the belief in hopes that you might persuade them to look at it another way so they don't die.

Yeah I agree with this. While I disliked the framing, I absolutely understood in the moment why they used the words they did. What if I had decided to sleep on the decision and gone down an internet rabbit hole trying to save that baby. What if I had opted to wait, it had ruptured, and I had bled out. Words matter and I support their choice of framing it to help me let go and make the best medical choice rather than one based on emotion.

 

[sunshinefl]

That's good in theory, but you also have women making choices that can lead to their death for a pregnancy that isn't viable because of the belief that if the egg was fertilized, it's a baby. It's hard not to challenge beliefs that are subjective, not supported by science or what we can predict will happen, so basically erronoeous beliefs that can lead to senseless death all for zero chance of payoff. In the scenarios I'm thinking of, it's not like NOT terminating has any chance of leading to a live birth. That is a hard lead to follow, and it's hard not to challenge the belief in hopes that you might persuade them to look at it another way so they don't die.

Education, informed consent, risks/benefits/alternatives, patient autonomy, offer medically appropriate treatment, etc. All this basic principles of any medical treatment that I don't want to suddenly throw out for women's health. I dunno Cray that sounds pretty persuasive even if the woman thinks of it like a baby. "You AND your baby will both die if we don't do this" still seems pretty powerful. Saying "You AND your clump of cells will die if we don't do this" doesn't seem to be more effective.

 

[AMEHigh]

Let’s drop the hyperbole and ridiculous arguments please. Comparing someone pro-life to the Taliban is an absurd, intellectually lazy argument and just makes you look ridiculous.

Not everyone who is pro-life is calling for the execution of abortion doctors. That is a small number of people. There are just as many loonies that are pro-choice.

edit: to be clear, I’m saying this as a participant in the discussion, not a moderator—this isn’t a warning post

I agree that "loonie" pro-life people might be a small percentage, but it’s unfortunate that the small percentage have had such devastating consequences on patient lives and health care providers. To start off they literally yell foul and vulgar things at patients and health care professionals on a daily basis around the country when people are trying to access medical care or go to work. And then that outrage has turned in to laws that have made accessing health care nearly impossible for many people.

Waiting periods, making us have to tell lies to patients during the consent process, unnecessary exams required that could be considered the equivalent to assault, building requirement specifications and the list goes on and on and on and on.

So I appreciate that you seem to be pro-life for you and your family and think others shouldn’t be judged and have choice (which I would actually argue that you are indeed pro-choice) that certainly is not the reality in this country for the pro-life movement that passes more and more restrictive laws on people who are trying to access health care. I think everyone needs to have a clear understanding of that and how it’s had devastating consequences on people’s lives.

Although there is a need for abortion later in pregnancy, I understand why some people might find that controversial. Therefore, I think it would be reasonable if federal law said that abortion was legal to 24weeks, and states couldn’t pass restrictions and then all these other bullsht restrictions went away. But to think that "loonie" pro-life people have no say in people’s lives that have lead us down a horrible path to making health care inaccessible is false.

"Loonie" pro-choice people aren’t trying to force other people to have abortions. In fact, many people that perform abortions also provide prenatal care and do deliveries. I would sleep just fine at night if none of my patients never had an abortion again if that’s what they wanted. I have never lied to a patient in order to get them to have an abortion. I have never prayed that I hope my patient has an abortion. I’ve never stood outside a medical office that does prenatal care and yelled at people telling them they’re doing something horrible by having a child.

On the other hand "loonie" pro-life people literally try to force people to continue with their pregnancies and lie to patients. Crisis pregnancy centers are horrific and the stories that come out of there are just criminal. So saying that the "loonies" on both side is a false equivalency.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I agree that "loonie" pro-life people might be a small percentage, but it’s unfortunate that the small percentage have had such devastating consequences on patient lives and health care providers. To start off they literally yell foul and vulgar things at patients and health care professionals on a daily basis around the country when people are trying to access medical care or go to work. And then that outrage has turned in to laws that have made accessing health care nearly impossible for many people.

Waiting periods, making us have to tell lies to patients during the consent process, unnecessary exams required that could be considered the equivalent to assault, building requirement specifications and the list goes on and on and on and on.

So I appreciate that you seem to be pro-life for you and your family and think others shouldn’t be judged and have choice (which I would actually argue that you are indeed pro-choice) that certainly is not the reality in this country for the pro-life movement that passes more and more restrictive laws on people who are trying to access health care. I think everyone needs to have a clear understanding of that and how it’s had devastating consequences on people’s lives.

Although there is a need for abortion later in pregnancy, I understand why some people might find that controversial. Therefore, I think it would be reasonable if federal law said that abortion was legal to 24weeks, and states couldn’t pass restrictions and then all these other bullsht restrictions went away. But to think that "loonie" pro-life people have no say in people’s lives that have lead us down a horrible path to making health care inaccessible is false.

"Loonie" pro-choice people aren’t trying to force other people to have abortions. In fact, many people that perform abortions also provide prenatal care and do deliveries. I would sleep just fine at night if none of my patients never had an abortion again if that’s what they wanted. I have never lied to a patient in order to get them to have an abortion. I have never prayed that I hope my patient has an abortion. I’ve never stood outside a medical office that does prenatal care and yelled at people telling them they’re doing something horrible by having a child.

On the other hand "loonie" pro-life people literally try to force people to continue with their pregnancies and lie to patients. Crisis pregnancy centers are horrific and the stories that come out of there are just criminal. So saying that the "loonies" on both side is a false equivalency.

Yeah I mean I agree with you. But those people literally think people who get and perform abortions are murdering babies. Of course they are trying to pass laws to make it illegal.

 

[AMEHigh]

Yeah I mean I agree with you. But those people literally think people who get and perform abortions are murdering babies. Of course they are trying to pass laws to make it illegal.

Yes, of course I understand why they try to pass all sorts of absurdity like having to "re-implant" ectopic pregnancies. But I was just pointing out the hypocrisy about your statement that there are just as many loonies who are pro-choice. I’m pretty sure if I shared my views you’d think I was a pro-abortion loonie (and I actually don’t mind that title!) but still I’m not forcing anyone to have an abortion, I’m not sending anyone who is pro-life hate mail (I’ve now been initiated in to that club!), I’m not yelling at patients or prenatal care providers at their jobs, I’m not telling lies to my prenatal patients, etc.

This is unlike the other side who are literally forcing people to have children by the lies they tell and the laws they vote for and get passed. They’re not equivalent at all and it’s kinda crazy and offensive that anyone would think so. I want patients to be able to access care that’s best for them and their circumstances no matter what their choice (parent, adoption, abortion) and I facilitate that care, pro-life loonies want only 1 thing and they harass people, tell lies and pass horrific laws to accomplish this. Not the same thing at all.

I’m pretty sure most pro-life physicians aren’t wearing bullet proof vests and fear for their lives and their families when going to work, while many pro-choice physicians and abortion providers feel that way. When was the last time a pro-choice person murdered a pro-life person at work for their views? I can tell you the last time a pro-life person murdered a pro-choice person at work. So to say we’re all the same is insane.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yes, of course I understand why they try to pass all sorts of absurdity like having to "re-implant" ectopic pregnancies. But I was just pointing out the hypocrisy about your statement that there are just as many loonies who are pro-choice. I’m pretty sure if I shared my views you’d think I was a pro-abortion loonie (and I actually don’t mind that title!) but still I’m not forcing anyone to have an abortion, I’m not sending anyone who is pro-life hate mail (I’ve now been initiated in to that club!), I’m not yelling at patients or prenatal care providers at their jobs, I’m not telling lies to my prenatal patients, etc.

This is unlike the other side who are literally forcing people to have children by the lies they tell and the laws they vote for and get passed. They’re not equivalent at all and it’s kinda crazy and offensive that anyone would think so. I want patients to be able to access care that’s best for them and their circumstances no matter what their choice (parent, adoption, abortion) and I facilitate that care, pro-life loonies want only 1 thing and they harass people, tell lies and pass horrific laws to accomplish this. Not the same thing at all.

I’m pretty sure most pro-life physicians aren’t wearing bullet proof vests and fear for their lives and their families when going to work, while many pro-choice physicians and abortion providers feel that way. When was the last time a pro-choice person murdered a pro-life person at work for their views? I can tell you the last time a pro-life person murdered a pro-choice person at work. So to say we’re all the same is insane.

That’s great for you. I’ve literally seen pro-choice people make statements that abortion should be used like any other form of birth control, that the people protesting at planned parenthood should be murdered, etc. There are pro-life protestors assaulted by pro-choice folks. That happens more regularly than you probably are aware. There are loonies on both sides, but I get what you’re saying.

 

[Lawpy]

I agree that "loonie" pro-life people might be a small percentage, but it’s unfortunate that the small percentage have had such devastating consequences on patient lives and health care providers. To start off they literally yell foul and vulgar things at patients and health care professionals on a daily basis around the country when people are trying to access medical care or go to work. And then that outrage has turned in to laws that have made accessing health care nearly impossible for many people.

Waiting periods, making us have to tell lies to patients during the consent process, unnecessary exams required that could be considered the equivalent to assault, building requirement specifications and the list goes on and on and on and on.

So I appreciate that you seem to be pro-life for you and your family and think others shouldn’t be judged and have choice (which I would actually argue that you are indeed pro-choice) that certainly is not the reality in this country for the pro-life movement that passes more and more restrictive laws on people who are trying to access health care. I think everyone needs to have a clear understanding of that and how it’s had devastating consequences on people’s lives.

Although there is a need for abortion later in pregnancy, I understand why some people might find that controversial. Therefore, I think it would be reasonable if federal law said that abortion was legal to 24weeks, and states couldn’t pass restrictions and then all these other bullsht restrictions went away. But to think that "loonie" pro-life people have no say in people’s lives that have lead us down a horrible path to making health care inaccessible is false.

"Loonie" pro-choice people aren’t trying to force other people to have abortions. In fact, many people that perform abortions also provide prenatal care and do deliveries. I would sleep just fine at night if none of my patients never had an abortion again if that’s what they wanted. I have never lied to a patient in order to get them to have an abortion. I have never prayed that I hope my patient has an abortion. I’ve never stood outside a medical office that does prenatal care and yelled at people telling them they’re doing something horrible by having a child.

On the other hand "loonie" pro-life people literally try to force people to continue with their pregnancies and lie to patients. Crisis pregnancy centers are horrific and the stories that come out of there are just criminal. So saying that the "loonies" on both side is a false equivalency.

I refuse to compromise with antichoice fanatics and am pushing to repeal all abortion restrictions of any kind. This means late term abortions must be allowed and i'll fight to get rid of all laws restricting abortions.

 

[Lawpy]

Yeah I mean I agree with you. But those people literally think people who get and perform abortions are murdering babies. Of course they are trying to pass laws to make it illegal.

Antichoicers need to realize their beliefs on what defines life and murder isn't universal and their actions are fundamentally authoritarian

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I refuse to compromise with antichoice fanatics and am pushing to repeal all abortion restrictions of any kind. This means late term abortions must be allowed and i'll fight to get rid of all laws restricting abortions.

So you think that you should be able to abort a baby who could survive outside the womb? I have friends with kids born at 35-37 weeks. They aren’t just blobs of protoplasm. They’re babies. At some point it’s too much.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Antichoicers need to realize their beliefs on what defines life and murder isn't universal and their actions are fundamentally authoritarian

Should it be legal to murder someone you don’t like?

 

[Lawpy]

That’s great for you. I’ve literally seen pro-choice people make statements that abortion should be used like any other form of birth control, that the people protesting at planned parenthood should be murdered, etc. There are pro-life protestors assaulted by pro-choice folks. That happens more regularly than you probably are aware. There are loonies on both sides, but I get what you’re saying.

Assault isn't ok and should be met with criminal charges. But pro lifers protesting to push for laws restricting abortions should be severely criticized

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Assault isn't ok and should be met with criminal charges. But pro lifers protesting to push for laws restricting abortions should be severely criticized

They think people are murdering babies. If murder of an adult was legal in a state, would you push for that to be illegal?

 

[Lawpy]

So you think that you should be able to abort a baby who could survive outside the womb? I have friends with kids born at 35-37 weeks. They aren’t just blobs of protoplasm. They’re babies. At some point it’s too much.

Yep. Why are legislators and antichoicers interfering in a medical decision? It's none of their business. The physician can suggest to patients non abortion alternatives. That's their job.

 

[Lawpy]

They think people are murdering babies. If murder of an adult was legal in a state, would you push for that to be illegal?

They think it is murder doesn't mean it is murder. They should stop forcing everyone to accept their beliefs and pushing through authoritarian and antidemocratic restrictions

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Yep. Why are legislators and antichoicers interfering in a medical decision? It's none of their business. The physician can suggest to patients non abortion alternatives. That's their job.

Why do we make anything illegal? Because it interferes with someone else’s rights. And I can tell you clearly don’t have kids.

 

[Lawpy]

Should it be legal to murder someone you don’t like?

Murder has a clear cut definition. Antichoicers are pushing everyone to accept that their beliefs that abortion = murder should be accepted without question.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

They think it is murder doesn't mean it is murder. They should stop forcing everyone to accept their beliefs and pushing through authoritarian and antidemocratic restrictions

Bro, you are just like the people you are spewing hate against. The fact that you can’t understand why someone who truly believes that abortion is murder would want to make that illegal is concerning.

 

[Lawpy]

Why do we make anything illegal? Because it interferes with someone else’s rights. And I can tell you clearly don’t have kids.

A medical decision between a physician and a patient is not of any importance to an antichoice 3rd party pushing laws to align their beliefs.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Murder has a clear cut definition. Antichoicers are pushing everyone to accept that their beliefs that abortion = murder should be accepted without question.

You’re just like the people you are acting like you’re more enlightened than, but from the other side. It would be funny if it wasn’t so disconcerting.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

A medical decision between a physician and a patient is not of any importance to an antichoice 3rd party pushing laws to align their beliefs.

It’s impossible to have a discussion with someone as dogmatic as you, so I’m done.

 

[Lawpy]

Bro, you are just like the people you are spewing hate against. The fact that you can’t understand why someone who truly believes that abortion is murder would want to make that illegal is concerning.

Just because they believe abortion = murder doesn't mean they should force everyone else to accept that view.

 

[Lawpy]

You’re just like the people you are acting like you’re more enlightened than, but from the other side. It would be funny if it wasn’t so disconcerting.

It’s impossible to have a discussion with someone as dogmatic as you, so I’m done.

What are you talking about? I'm literally railing against restrictions because it forces everyone to accept abortion = murder when it isn't true. That is different from having personal pro life beliefs but respecting other people to make their own decisions.

I want to end all abortion restrictions of any kind and i made that stance clear.

 

[VA Hopeful Dr]

Should it be legal to murder someone you don’t like?

Is this a trick question?

 

[Lawpy]

It’s impossible to have a discussion with someone as dogmatic as you, so I’m done.

Also you need to realize many pro choice people are personally anti abortion. My stance is i don't want the government to interfere in a decision just because a random 3rd party wants to interfere in the patient/physician discussion to force their views through. That doesn't mean i'm pro abortion or support abortions.