Army National Guard's new Med student program details.

[notdeadyet]

Please don't make us answer this again.

Good point. This thread is actually long enough now that stuff like this has already been answered. I just figured it would be quicker to answer it than dig up where it was answered last time. My laziness...

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[lazyanteater]

You don't get your uniform allowance until after OBLC...and it's $400.

So you end up paying for your uniforms yourself, and it's usually more than $400 (boots alone are $100 a piece!).

Yeah I figured that. I dropped about 110 for boots and bought two pairs of Acus. Figured i'd have to use them eventually. Unfortunately i think i have to take the coats back b/c i bought mediums and they feel a bit tight now that I think about it. That ASR money better come quick!

 

[Habeed]

Question for the super-helpful guys on this thread : I didn't quite get my original question answered.

I know that you miss out on something substantial if you start M2 year rather than M1 year, but I can't remember what that is. Just like you really miss out if you start M3 or M4 year, the way this program is structured.

All I know about is that if you start M2 year, you get one less year of tuition assistance (4.5k). Also, you become unable to sign up for MDSSP for the M4 year, but STRAP is basically the same thing, and both tack on extra service time in any case. There's some complicated formula for calculating time owed if you take both MDSSP and STRAP that I can't quite decipher, so maybe you come out ahead somehow if you start in M1 year?

You'll eventually collect the exact same amount of drill pay. You'll be able to exhaust your GI bill as well. But, the clock on your contract also starts ticking a year later.

So, is the only difference that $4.5k? (which is a PITA to collect anyway, trust me)

Oh, now I remember : is it something to do with scheduling the OBLC that causes you to miss out on the promotion to 1Lt?

 

[DeadCactus]

Who do you contact about joining ASR? AMEDD recruiter? (For Texas, if anyone happens to know.)

Edit: For ASR, if you decide you want to get a Master's degree during medical school (either through a 5 year dual-degree program or by taking a hiatus) are you SOL due to ASR obligations?

Bump. Specifically for the second part, I think I've solved the first (though confirmation is always welcomed).

 

[notdeadyet]

I know that you miss out on something substantial if you start M2 year rather than M1 year, but I can't remember what that is.

I have no idea what that would be. The ASR program is three years, so by starting it as an MS II, you're still getting all three years.

The only difference with folks who take it as MS I's is that they have an extra year of drilling in the Guard. And the $4.5k tuition assistance.

Also, you become unable to sign up for MDSSP for the M4 year, but STRAP is basically the same thing, and both tack on extra service time in any case.

You could take MDSSP as an MS I before ASR, no? And yes, both take on obligation at a 2:1 rate. You can take on STRAP in residency going either path.

There's some complicated formula for calculating time owed if you take both MDSSP and STRAP that I can't quite decipher, so maybe you come out ahead somehow if you start in M1 year?

I don't think the formula's that complicated. Programs like MDSSP and STRAP are paid back consecutively, not concurrently. You add what you owe together. ASR gives you an eight year obligation. The only advantage to taking it as an MS I is that it would end a year earlier in your medical career compared to someone that took it as an MS II.

 

[notdeadyet]

Oh, now I remember : is it something to do with scheduling the OBLC that causes you to miss out on the promotion to 1Lt?

You need to finish OBLC to be promotable in ASR (someone correct me if this is not correct). You are automatically promoted from 2LT to 1LT after 18 months, but you must have finished OBLC.

If you take ASR as an MS I, you can go to OBLC between your first and second year of medical school.

If you take ASR as an MS II, you can go to OBLC as a third year elective or fourth year elective. If you took it as a fourth year elective, it might delay your promotion to 1LT. But if you took ASR as an MS I and delayed OBLC until 3rd year, it would also delay promotion.

Personally, if folks are up in the air, I'd recommend taking the ASR program in second year. You have NO idea what medical school is going to be like and it's nice to enter it focusing only on school. Find out what you're interested in. Find out what you want to do in medicine a bit. Experiment. Once you sign up for ASR, you are making some commitments. I don't necessarily see the rush. The financial gain is nominal by signing up a year early.

 

[Habeed]

Thanks, notdeadyet. I felt I was missing some crucial detail, but that sounds about right. Also, it'll be easier to get the recommendation letters and other stuff filled out after a year of medical school.

I would venture to say it's almost as if whoever dreamed this program had this in mind, by the way many of the forms seem to be written.

The only $ difference is the 4.5k. The drill pay thing : either way, you owe the guard 6 years of drill, so you will get that pay whether you want it or not.

 

[EMH]

Oh, now I remember : is it something to do with scheduling the OBLC that causes you to miss out on the promotion to 1Lt?

I joined in my M2 year and will get 2 years 6 months of ASR $. Am I upset about not getting the full years? Not really. I'm stoked to have a job in med school.

What you said about missing the chance to get to OBLC between the first and second year is really the only thing that I wish I hadn't missed. I am going to have to take off a 4 week junior rotation to go to OBLC in October and make up the rotation my senior year. On the flip side though, I get to go to Fort Sam in October when the temps are mild instead of the dead of summer when they get 100+.

 

[notdeadyet]

I would venture to say it's almost as if whoever dreamed this program had this in mind, by the way many of the forms seem to be written.

I agree. Lots of the forms ask for LORs from med school faculty and your med school Dean. They need a transcript from your med school. I'm sure you can apply as an MS I, but applying 6-9 months before starting med school doesn't sound practical.

Do folks even know what med school they'll be attending? I didn't. But then, I'm what's known as a "questionable admit".

 

[notdeadyet]

Am I upset about not getting the full years? Not really. I'm stoked to have a job in med school.

Ditto. I'll only be on salary for 2 years and a month. But I would probably sign up even if I only were to get it for year or so. Even three year's ASR pay isn't enough to make the program a good idea if you don't want to serve in the Guard. And if you want to serve in the Guard anyway, it's all gravy.

What you said about missing the chance to get to OBLC between the first and second year is really the only thing that I wish I hadn't missed.

Out of curiosity, how do folks even swing that? My understanding is that most students use the summer to study for the Step I, which they take at the end, correct?

I'm ignorant. My school is on an atypical calendar that finishes second year in late February. We then have eight weeks off to study for Step I. I can't imagine cutting into that for OBLC.

 

[EMH]

Out of curiosity, how do folks even swing that? My understanding is that most students use the summer to study for the Step I, which they take at the end, correct?

I think you've got it right but you may just have not read my post correctly. I would have liked to do OBLC between the first and second year. I have to study for the Step between the second and third year.

If your school takes the step 1 between the first and second year then you have an unusual schedule indeed.

 

[notdeadyet]

I think you've got it right but you may just have not read my post correctly. I would have liked to do OBLC between the first and second year. I have to study for the Step between the second and third year.

Ack! My bad. You're right. First summer is for lying on the beach, second summer is for Step I.

Too much sleep deprivation studying for an exam. I'd sound much brighter if we were talking about colonic polyps right now.

If your school takes the step 1 between the first and second year then you have an unusual schedule indeed.

We ain't that nuts. Thanks for the catch. I edited my post above.

 

[koojo]

I agree. Lots of the forms ask for LORs from med school faculty and your med school Dean. They need a transcript from your med school. I'm sure you can apply as an MS I, but applying 6-9 months before starting med school doesn't sound practical.

Do folks even know what med school they'll be attending? I didn't. But then, I'm what's known as a "questionable admit".

I knew in October 08 which school I was going to attend in the Summer 09 lol. For my commissioning packet I had to include the med school acceptance letter as well as a USAREC Form 1105 signed by the school registrar (I know that it's called a STRAP Verification Form, but it doesn't really have to do with the STRAP program).

If I start ASR on April 1st, I would start it 3-4 months before med school actually starts for me...which is 4 months of pay

 

[notdeadyet]

If I start ASR on April 1st, I would start it 3-4 months before med school actually starts for me...which is 4 months of pay

Interesting. I had been told that pre-med applicants could get commissioned and join the National Guard before the start of medical school, but could not receive their first full O-1 ASR paycheck until they were actually in med school. Live and learn.

 

[matkins205]

Just submitted by pre-MEPS questionnaires and paperwork. Any tips on how to make this application process as quick and painless as possible?

 

[koojo]

Interesting. I had been told that pre-med applicants could get commissioned and join the National Guard before the start of medical school, but could not receive their first full O-1 ASR paycheck until they were actually in med school. Live and learn.

Yep that's not true. I believe the ASR programs has two start dates...one on April 1st and another one maybe in October? Once you start the program you are considered ADOS (the old ADSW) and therefore must be paid full-time.

 

[notdeadyet]

Yep that's not true. I believe the ASR programs has two start dates...one on April 1st and another one maybe in October?

No, it actually has four start dates. Once every three months. I just confirmed on the off chance I don't make deadline for the 1 APR.

Once you start the program you are considered ADOS (the old ADSW) and therefore must be paid full-time.

Right, but you are commissioned in the Guard before you are processed for ASR. Folks have been starting the National Guard on swearing in and not starting ASR until the following start period. For instance, after you are commissioned, they will file the paperwork to get you paid on ASR. If for some reason you don't make the 1 APR pay, you will not start ASR until 1 JUL, but during that time you will still be in the Guard.

 

[clinicallabguy]

So if you go ASR early in MSI, what do you do in year four when your three years are up? You can still get the MDSSP stipends that year if you want, right? And you still drill, don't you?

So if I start year one I would get ~$50,000 for three years (and MDSSP if I want it, and other stuff if I want it), and then ~$22,000 for year four if I take the MDSSP that year? Do I get nothing in year four if I don't take the MDSSP?

This has probably been answered, but I'm trying to wrap my mind around this program and didn't understand exactly.

 

[Habeed]

If you don't take MDSSP (it does add to your commitment, after all) then you get tuition assistance (4.5k/year) and drill pay ($500/drill)

You'll probably have exhausted your GI bill selected reserve, unless you held out on using it hoping it went up due to your active duty time. (there's a debate on that)

 

[punkiedad]

Yep that's not true. I believe the ASR programs has two start dates...one on April 1st and another one maybe in October? Once you start the program you are considered ADOS (the old ADSW) and therefore must be paid full-time.

In an y event, you only get paid for 36 months ADSW right? Meaning, if you start getting paid april 1st of MSI, you will actually stop getting paid 3 months later, or similarly before the end of MSIII, or would it continue ot the end of MSIII ??

 

[notdeadyet]

In an y event, you only get paid for 36 months ADSW right?

Correct. You will only get paid for 36 months or when medical school ends, whichever comes first.

 

[punkiedad]

I know this is an apples to oranges comparison, but I figured I wouls ask for advice, as I think everyone on here has some vastly different perspectives and i am hoping people will be honest and help me think of things I have not thought of before.

my applications are complete in both programs. I am waiting to hear back. I still go back and forth.

ASR = more money up front while in school plus can take loans and have repayment options later. civilian residency (though this pays a good deal less - though there are other guard programs I think that can help with $$). do not have to go active duty, and do not have to move my family, especially if I can find a residency that keeps me here. Deployments are longer and more frequent than AF though??

HPSP - less $$ mothly, but get the 20k and amortize it over 36 months, it is still less $$ monthly, but goes for all 4 years (though I applied to LECOMs 3 yr PCSP program and I could be done in 3 years), and LECOMs tuition is relatively cheap at 25K per year, so it is less of a deal cause te AF ispaying a lot less than they could be. most likely have to do a military residency, but pay is a lot better, though GMO is possible. heard the AF has shorter deployments and are less frequent and are not in battle areas (italy vs Iraq).

So, I am looking at what is best for my family. My wife is a teacher in the local school district here.She will move, but I kinda feel guilty making her move.

Any advice from anyone would be greatly appreciated. hope others can benefit from this as well....................thanks, in advance.

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

How long are the deployments in the AF?

Is it too late to get going on an application to the National Guard Program?

 

[notdeadyet]

ASR = ... civilian residency (though this pays a good deal less - though there are other guard programs I think that can help with $$).

Yes, there are programs that you can get paid extra wages in residency (I believe it's $1,900/month), but those come with a 2:1 commitment, so if you take it for three years, you owe the National Guard an additional 6 years of drilling time.

do not have to go active duty, and do not have to move my family, especially if I can find a residency that keeps me here.

With ASR you will not be mobilized during medical school or internship. You can be mobilized and pulled out of residency, though this looks unlikely imho.

Deployments are longer and more frequent than AF though??

I know little about AF. In the National Guard, current deployment tempo is no more than 4 months of deployment every 18 months or so. The 4 months of deployment is 90 days boots-in-sand, the rest in the States.

HPSP - ... heard the AF has shorter deployments and are less frequent and are not in battle areas (italy vs Iraq).

I've heard the AF has shorter deployments, but I doubt they are shorter than the Guard. And your odds of being deployed to Italy are a good deal less than deploying to Iraq. AF doctors have been assigned to Army units to supplement. If a recruiter is painting you pictures of your deployment likely to be in Italy, take it with a healthy grain of salt.

My wife is a teacher in the local school district here.She will move, but I kinda feel guilty making her move.

If you go ASR and are accepted to a local residency program, she doesn't need to move. If you go HPSP for AF, she will have to move. Most likely, it will be several moves over your career. One definite move for residency, another definite move for your utilization tour. Possibly another move after that.

With ASR, you will get enough money to support yourself and pay much of your medical school tuition. If your wife can support the rest of the family, you could graduate close to debt free. Your obligation drilling in the Guard after would only be for a couple of years. You will make a low salary as a resident, but that salary is still around national average. You can get by on it. If you love the Guard (and only if you love the Guard) you can supplement with STRAP, accumulating more drilling obligation.

With HPSP, you will graduate debt free with enough to support yourself as well. You will be much better off financially during residency (making about double what you would as a civilian). If you get straight through training, you will owe four years of full-time service.

It's your call. I don't think either program is a good option unless you want to serve your country in the military. There is plenty of loan money out there to get by in medical school. No one starves, even those with children if you have a working spouse. Only pursue one of the programs if you want to serve.

With your tuition situation, HPSP is a bad financial call. Only take it if you have a drive to serve full-time in the military.

 

[notdeadyet]

Is it too late to get going on an application to the National Guard Program?

When do you want to start ASR? Some folks have gone from paperwork to paycheck in as little as 3 or 4 months. For me, it's looking to be 10 months.

 

[Chuck's Right Foot]

Six to 7 months from now. I'm going to go visit a recruiter.

 

[notdeadyet]

Six to 7 months from now.

You definitely have a shot. For a lot of folks who take longer than that, it's due to needing waivers, usually for health issues that need to get an okay.

Also, keep in mind that unlike HPSP, ASR is not something that has a definitive start time. The program starts four times a year, so if you miss it when you immediately start medical school, you can start it a few months later. If you're just starting med school, it's pretty moot, as the program only runs three months anyway.

I'm going to go visit a recruiter.

You are going directly to an AMEDD National Guard recruiter, yes? If you try a general Army recruiter, they will likely steer you away from ASR. If you try a general National Guard recruiter, they will know nothing about ASR. If you need the name of a recruiter, I had a great one that worked with me even though he wasn't from my state. He handled my packet entirely and then passed it over to my state recruiter when done.

 

[clinicallabguy]

Questions keep trickling into my mind so here is one:

Does the ASR allow you to do a combined degree program? I know that they will only allow you to do the program for 3 years in medical school, but do they require you to graduate in 4? Can you do it in 5 if you do a combined degree?

 

[EMH]

The money is really not a whole lot different between a 4 year HPSP (including the bonus) and the guard on the ASR. The money shouldn't sway your decision. What it sounds like is important to you is the life style and moving.

In the NG it is entirely possible you can go to school & residency in one place and then stay there after graduation as a member of your state's guard. In active duty after you graduate, you'll likely have to move to one of the big Army Hospitals (Texas, DC, Hawaii) but there are some other options. You might be able to go straight through residency there but you may have a GMO tour after your internship and then have to PCS after that to finish residency. After residency you may PCS again or may stay where you are. This could be 2-5 PCS in a 10 year period. In my opinion the guard is a better choice for those with established families.

There are vast differences in your lifestyle as a guard doc vs. an active duty doc. Far too many to mention. You need to evaluate what it is you want out of a career in the military and see which is a better fit for you. Don't let money guide your decision.

PCS = permanent change of station

 

[punkiedad]

I can't believe I forgot to fully state that I do have the desire to serve my country and am looking forward toit. With all do respect, it seems like everyone takes this personally, about the money issue and not doing it for the money.

I do have a desire to serve my country. I would not be doing it otherwise. Given that, my family is a major factor, as they will be sacrificing with my schedule, my hours, me being grumpy, tired, etc..... I am leaving a very good paying job to do this and want to make them suffer as little as possible.

In any event, everyone's advice is well received and was pretty much what I was anticipating. I sincerely appreciate everyone's feedback.

Does anyone know how many people stay in the guard in the medical corps once their time is done? Is it possible to start in the ASR program at 38, and accrue enough guard time to draw a military pension? i know there is a formula but am unsure if I could get enough time. Also, I guess since you are originally ADSW, you are accruing time, but am not sure if you can get enough after the fact.......any thoughts?

 

[DeadCactus]

Questions keep trickling into my mind so here is one:

Does the ASR allow you to do a combined degree program? I know that they will only allow you to do the program for 3 years in medical school, but do they require you to graduate in 4? Can you do it in 5 if you do a combined degree?

I'm interested in doing a duel-degree program and asked the person working with me on my application this and the understanding I got was that if you apply ASR already accepted into a formal dual-degree program, they run it by the person in charge and they generally let you in.

As for joining after entering ASR, they gave me the impression that once you're in and begin medical school you retain your student status (protections) until you finish the M.D. and that you are free do dual-degree programs and continue with the same deployment protections.

The impression I get from this whole program is that beyond a very general concept, no one really knows how things do and will work. I get the feeling there are a few high ranking officers just making a decision as each new circumstance arises and that it will be a few years before there are any real and solid guidelines.

There seems to be room to roam off the beaten path to a reasonable extent, but I personally will be expecting to run into a few hazards when I do so. I don;t think there is much trouble to expect from a formal dual-degree program, but an informal dual-degree (hiatus from medical school to pursue the second degree) may cause you to take some risks and be "that guy" whose story is used as a warning to others on SDN...

 

[del Sol DOHC]

Is it possible to start in the ASR program at 38, and accrue enough guard time to draw a military pension?

You must be able to complete 20 years of service before your 62nd birthday. So, with no prior service, the oldest you can join the Guard is 42.

 

[punkiedad]

You must be able to complete 20 years of service before your 62nd birthday. So, with no prior service, the oldest you can join the Guard is 42.

OK, so if I join the guard when I am 38 and stay in all the way through until retirement age, what are the benefits? I know active duty you will receive 50% of base pay for life, but what would you get as a guard retiree? Is i some multiple or is there some formula?

Thanks.

 

[EMH]

OK, so if I join the guard when I am 38 and stay in all the way through until retirement age, what are the benefits? I know active duty you will receive 50% of base pay for life, but what would you get as a guard retiree? Is i some multiple or is there some formula?

Thanks.

Yes, there is a formula, but what exactly the formula is I am not sure. I've read some stuff and thought I knew, then people at drill told me something completely different. Back early on in this thread there is a description of how I initially thought it was done. Somewhere around page 3 maybe.

We got our 'Annual Statement' today at drill which is not a whole lot different than the social security statement you get once a year. One of the pages says:

Based on: your current rank, 3% cost of living increase, continuing active status until age 60, minimum of 78 points per year until age 60...Your monthly retired pay at age 60 would be approximately: $xxxx.xx

Mine currently reads $1268.13 but I've only been in 4 months. A CPT I was talking to showed me his and it was like $3700. As a doc we should make LTC or maybe full colonel by retirement and that would bump up that $ quite a bit more I suspect. Hope that gives you an idea of what the retirement can be.

...Another good thing about the ASR program that really gets the attention of the people in my unit is we are getting 365 points a year while on ADSW orders. This allows you to pile up 1000 points in your first three years and will substantially help your retirement.

 

[koojo]

I'm bored tonight so I went ahead and calculated how much the ARNG will have paid ME by the time I finish medical school.

The figures below include the average 3.5% increase in pay that military personal get every year. Also, the BAH (housing allowance) for an independant individual living in WV as an O1 is around $690 a month (goes up yearly). If I were to go to school where I currently live (in VT) I would get over $1200/month for BAH...so it varies greatly by where you will live while you go to school and take ASR. Go here to find out how much you will be paid for BAH, and then increase this value by 3.5% for 2nd and 3rd year of ASR.

You will also notice BAS in my calculations. This is your substance allowance and is a set number for everyone. Currently it's $223.04/mo for officers (goes up yearly).

Disclaimer...these figures are for based on ME only because I have prior service so I automatically get more pay based on how many years I have. Go here for the current pay tables. It will probably be a lot lower if you come in as an O1 with no prior service.

Disclaimer: this figures are ROUGH estimates and are subject to change. Also, some things like the Federal Tuition Assistance is first-come first-served and depend on how much funds are available that year.


Anyway here goes:
1st year of ASR - $3340/mo x 12 mos. = $40,080 + $8,280 (BAH) + $2676 (BAS) = $51,000
2nd year of ASR - ~$4,000/mo average (late into 2nd year..considering I've done OBLC) x 12 mos. = $48000 + $9500 (BAH) + $2800 (BAS)= $60,300
3rd year of ASR - $4637/mo x 12 mos = $55644 + $9900 (BAH) + $2900 (BAS) = $68,444
4th year - MDSSP = $1907/month = $22,884 (this is the current rate, it goes up every year)
TOTAL = $202,628
Federal Tuition Assistance for 4 years = $4,500/yr x 4 yrs = $18,000
TOTAL = $220628
Drilling 4th year as an 1LT (since no longer on ASR) = $650/mo x ~10 mo = $6,500
TOTAL = $227,128

Officers w/o prior service can also get the Mongomery G.I. Bill for ~$330/month (goes up every year) for up to 36 months..which will give you an extra $11k total. I've already spent all mine during undergrad so I can't use this.

So I will get paid roughly $227k while I'm in med school...this is nice. If I can get in-state tuition in WV (because I'm in the ARNG), my overall payment to the school will be just around $84k.

 

[notdeadyet]

Officers w/o prior service can also get the Mongomery G.I. Bill for ~$330/month for up to 36 months..which will give you an extra $11k total. I've already spent all mine during college so I can't use this.

The $330/mo is for GI Bill-SR, correct?

If you are activated National Guard for over two years, you're technically eligible for the GI Bill- Active, which would pay a great deal more, no?

Also, you'd be eligible for REAP, right? And REAP for someone active more than two years is just over $1K/month.

 

[DeadCactus]

Just to confirm, my understanding is that when you join ASR, you drill with a NG unit for six years and have two years of IRR. For the first three years of drilling you are considered full-time for pay/benefits. Then you go to three years of reserve pay/benefits.

Tuition assistance and both GI Bill are available with no further commitment (other than paying into the AD GI Bill). There are other programs (STRAP, Loan Repayment, etc) that offer more benefits for a lengthened commitment. Is this correct?

 

[notdeadyet]

Just to confirm, my understanding is that when you join ASR, you drill with a NG unit for six years and have two years of IRR. For the first three years of drilling you are considered full-time for pay/benefits. Then you go to three years of reserve pay/benefits.

Correct. With the understanding that those three full-time years must be spent in med school (if you take ASR starting as an MS III, you'll get two years full-time salary, four years reserve pay).

Tuition assistance and both GI Bill are available with no further commitment (other than paying into the AD GI Bill). There are other programs (STRAP, Loan Repayment, etc) that offer more benefits for a lengthened commitment. Is this correct?

Spot on correct.

 

[koojo]

The $330/mo is for GI Bill-SR, correct?

If you are activated National Guard for over two years, you're technically eligible for the GI Bill- Active, which would pay a great deal more, no?

Also, you'd be eligible for REAP, right? And REAP for someone active more than two years is just over $1K/month.

Roger that's for MGIB-SR. It's about $330/month currently.

I'm currently reading this MGIB website: http://www.gibill.va.gov/GI_Bill_Info/benefits.htm

REAP is for NG soldiers who have been activated for 90 consecutive days since 09/11/2001 in a contingency operation ("Contingency operation" means the current Iraq or Afghanistan operations and may include other operations.) ASR won't qualify as a contingency operation. (http://www.gibill.va.gov/pamphlets/CH1607/CH1607_Pamphlet.pdf)

Tuition assistance and both GI Bill are available with no further commitment (other than paying into the AD GI Bill). There are other programs (STRAP, Loan Repayment, etc) that offer more benefits for a lengthened commitment. Is this correct?

If you take the $4500/year Federal Tuition Assistance (funds allowing) you are required to stay in the guard for 4 years after the end of your last FTA payout (http://www.virtualarmory.com/education/fedbenefits/tuition_fta.aspx). It says course completion, so I'm not sure if this means the end of medical school. But since you'll still be fulfilling your MSO (8 year contract) anyway, those 4 years will fall under your MSO. Therefore you don't owe any additional years past your initial 8. Does this make sense?

 

[DeadCactus]

If you take the $4500/year Federal Tuition Assistance (funds allowing) you are required to stay in the guard for 4 years after the end of your last FTA payout (http://www.virtualarmory.com/education/fedbenefits/tuition_fta.aspx). It says course completion, so I'm not sure if this means the end of medical school. But since you'll still be fulfilling your MSO (8 year contract) anyway, those 4 years will fall under your MSO. Therefore you don't owe any additional years past your initial 8. Does this make sense?

Ok, that's what I thought. Do the two years of IRR count as "staying in the guard" or does taking FTA after year two in the program switch your IRR obligation to a drilling obligation?

 

[koojo]

Ok, that's what I thought. Do the two years of IRR count as "staying in the guard" or does taking FTA after year two in the program switch your IRR obligation to a drilling obligation?

IRR is a completely different entity than the National Guard. Are you planning on doing 6 years in the Guard and 2 years in the IRR? If you are, and you plan on taking FTA during your second year in the guard, then you need to make sure that 4 years after you're done taking FTA that you're still considering to be part of the Guard and not IRR. I don't think that it's even possible to take receive FTA and get into IRR all within your MSO (initial 8 years). Lets say you join the NG today, start med school and start getting your FTA..all today. You take FTA for 36 months (maximum allowed). If your 4 years 'FTA obligation' starts during your fourth year of med school, then you will be finished with it during your 7th year of your MSO. If your 'FTA obligation' starts when you graduate med school, then you will be finished with it during your eight (your last) year of your MSO. Therefore either way you'll have to stay in the NG for either 7 or 8 years.

An education officer will have a better answer as to when the FTA obligation starts. Or maybe I'll just have to google it and find it

 

[DeadCactus]

Ah, thanks, koojo.

I just was unsure of whether the FTA required four years of service to the guard left or simply four years remaining in your contract. It makes sense now. Can you take the FTA for only as many years as you want or take it until graduation once you begin it? I assume the prior, but I've heard of stranger things.

You could enter ASR at the start of MSI, take FTA through MSI and MSII (but not MSIII and MSIV), and then have two years of active drilling and two years of IRR left after graduation then, correct?

 

[punkiedad]

thanks for the retirement info.....does anyone know anout the healthcare portion. Specifically, does retiring from the guard get your Tricare for life like in active duty?

Thanks.

 

[rookem11]

Punkiedad: unlike active duty you don't get tricare from the day you retire. If you do 20 yrs you get Tricare from the age of 60 til the end of your life. So yes you get it, just not right away.

 

[notdeadyet]

does anyone know anout the healthcare portion. Specifically, does retiring from the guard get your Tricare for life like in active duty?

If you are officially retired from the Guard (meaning, you did your 20 with enough points to qualify for your retirement pension), you are eligible for Tricare For Life once you hit Medicare age, just like a retired active duty person.

Prior to turning 65, you can enroll in Tricare Reserve Select, which just dropped from $250/mo family to $180/mo family.

 

[ohio23]

Just an FYI to everyone looking into GI Bill benefits. There is a new GI Bill that will become effective 1 Aug 09. The benefits are much more extensive than the current version. Please check out the Post 9/11 (new GI Bill FAQ by the VA or this informational pamphlet also by the VA. This pamphlet is unofficial but does a good job of summarizing questions and answers.

Also, Koojo, you mentioned that you exhausted your GI Bill benefits during undergrad (as did I). However, you may be eligible for an additional year (bringing you to 48 months total entitlement) if you received benefits under a reserve status and are now moving to an active duty status. The reverse is also true. Key words are 'combined eligibility'.

Someone else on here questioned whether or not ADSW qualifies as 'real' active duty. In talking with a GI Bill representative they seemed to believe ADSW would qualify. Again for the new GI Bill, nothing is finalized yet. For those of us MS0s we have the luxury of waiting to see how the chips fall in Aug 09 when the program comes in to effect.

Prior Service folks might find calling 1-888-GI-BILL-1 helpful in answering specific questions.

 

[koojo]

Ah, thanks, koojo.

I just was unsure of whether the FTA required four years of service to the guard left or simply four years remaining in your contract. It makes sense now. Can you take the FTA for only as many years as you want or take it until graduation once you begin it? I assume the prior, but I've heard of stranger things.

You could enter ASR at the start of MSI, take FTA through MSI and MSII (but not MSIII and MSIV), and then have two years of active drilling and two years of IRR left after graduation then, correct?

Yes you could do that, just have to make sure that all the dates coincide and that you don't have to fulfill your FTA obligation into your 7th year of your MSO. You can take FTA yearly. You fill out paperwork each summer before the start of school (the earlier the better) and you will be paid for the upcoming year.

 

[notdeadyet]

Just an FYI to everyone looking into GI Bill benefits. There is a new GI Bill that will become effective 1 Aug 09. The benefits are much more extensive than the current version. Please check out the Post 9/11 (new GI Bill FAQ by the VA or this informational pamphlet also by the VA. This pamphlet is unofficial but does a good job of summarizing questions and answers.

Yeah, unfortunately, the new GI Bill doesn't address the issue of residency, which is how most of us would use GI Bill from ASR.

My guess is that in the best case scenario, we'll be eligible for the BAH portion (at an E-5 rate), but obviously no tuition reimbursement, since we won't be paying tuition. The new GI Bill is tuition centric, which doesn't really apply to medical residents. Unless you live in an extremely expensive zip code (LA, NYC, etc.), it might be better to continue using the old GI Bill.

 

[koojo]

Just an FYI to everyone looking into GI Bill benefits. There is a new GI Bill that will become effective 1 Aug 09. The benefits are much more extensive than the current version. Please check out the Post 9/11 (new GI Bill FAQ by the VA or this informational pamphlet also by the VA. This pamphlet is unofficial but does a good job of summarizing questions and answers.

Also, Koojo, you mentioned that you exhausted your GI Bill benefits during undergrad (as did I). However, you may be eligible for an additional year (bringing you to 48 months total entitlement) if you received benefits under a reserve status and are now moving to an active duty status. The reverse is also true. Key words are 'combined eligibility'.

Someone else on here questioned whether or not ADSW qualifies as 'real' active duty. In talking with a GI Bill representative they seemed to believe ADSW would qualify. Again for the new GI Bill, nothing is finalized yet. For those of us MS0s we have the luxury of waiting to see how the chips fall in Aug 09 when the program comes in to effect.

Prior Service folks might find calling 1-888-GI-BILL-1 helpful in answering specific questions.

I've server almost 23 months on ADSW and Active duty since joining the NG 7 years ago. Even my AIT was more than 90 consective days and I was on Active Duty orders the whole time. Going by the chart in that link you provided it looks like I can get 70% of the amount of tuition and fees charged. (http://education.military.com/money-for-school/gi-bill/new-gi-bill-overview - it says Active Duty for initial and skill level count too).

On this website: http://www.militarygibill.com/gibill-tip-16.cfm I found the combined eligibility you were talking about:

"Veterans who are eligible for multiple VA education benefits are generally entitled to a maximum of 48 months of benefits. The Montgomery GI Bill entitlement remains the same, however. Qualifying for more than one program doesn't change the standard MGIB 36 month program. Even with that fixed eligibility, you may find that other state, federal and private education funding make it possible to delay the need to use your GI Bill education benefit.

There are no rules against taking advantage of state funding first and saving your MGIB until later. Be sure you understand the conditions of your other grants, loans and tuition assistance as it relates to your GI Bill eligibility. Some programs automatically count your GI Bill potential as part of your financial resources."

 

[tsbuqh]

Going by the chart in that link you provided it looks like I can get 70% of the amount of tuition and fees charged. (http://education.military.com/money-for-school/gi-bill/new-gi-bill-overview - it says Active Duty for initial and skill level count too).

That 70% will be of the maximum in-state undergraduate tuition, not med school tuition. If you were hoping like myself, that the initial wording of the bill would allow for grad and med school tuitions, there was a follow on bill to clarify and it definitely says undergrad only.