Army Otolaryngology

[99WtoDoc]

Ok, grades are average and at the bottom end of the minimum for ENT in the Army (according to the program directors)... I have other positives on paper and already studying for Step 2, but am stuck - I am afraid to apply since:

• If I don't match, I don't want to get tagged as a GMO
• If I get put in a transitional year, could I reapply for ENT or would I go GMO?
• If I don't match ENT right away, could I scramble for a surgery internship and reapply (since that is what ENT PGY-1 would be anyway?

Or do I play it more conservatively and apply for my second choice.... I hate thinking into the military match and the unique career paths it brings...but I have to be realistic.

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[NavyFP]

Ok, grades are average and at the bottom end of the minimum for ENT in the Army (according to the program directors)... I have other positives on paper and already studying for Step 2, but am stuck - I am afraid to apply since:

• If I don't match, I don't want to get tagged as a GMO
• If I get put in a transitional year, could I reapply for ENT or would I go GMO?
• If I don't match ENT right away, could I scramble for a surgery internship and reapply (since that is what ENT PGY-1 would be anyway?

Or do I play it more conservatively and apply for my second choice.... I hate thinking into the military match and the unique career paths it brings...but I have to be realistic.

How does the quote go? "The courageous die only once, but cowards die a thousand times."

Ask for what you want and deal with the consequences from there. If you don't, there will always be that nagging question.

 

[99WtoDoc]

How does the quote go? "The courageous die only once, but cowards die a thousand times."

Ask for what you want and deal with the consequences from there. If you don't, there will always be that nagging question.

Good quote - and something I've been thinking about. However, I'd always also have that nagging question if I am sitting in a GMO spot rather than my second-choice residency program... argh...

 

[VanBrown]

Are you AOA?

Do you have publications?

Have you done/planned on doing rotations within the military system during 4th year in ENT?

Those 3 things will help you if your scores a bit lower than the average. But then again the military match is such a mystery that it is hard to say given the GMOs that are reapplying and all.

 

[mslall]

Are you AOA?

Do you have publications?

Have you done/planned on doing rotations within the military system during 4th year in ENT?

Those 3 things will help you if your scores a bit lower than the average. But then again the military match is such a mystery that it is hard to say given the GMOs that are reapplying and all.

I'd be pretty willing to bet that if he's AOA his scores are just fine

 

[notdeadyet]

Are you AOA?

Do you have publications?

Have you done/planned on doing rotations within the military system during 4th year in ENT?

Those 3 things will help you if your scores a bit lower than the average. But then again the military match is such a mystery that it is hard to say given the GMOs that are reapplying and all.

How in the world would someone make AOA if their scores and grades are lower than average? AOA is limited to the top 15% or so of a med school.

 

[99WtoDoc]

How in the world would someone make AOA if their scores and grades are lower than average? AOA is limited to the top 15% or so of a med school.

AOA has not been chosen yet at my school, but I'm not counting on it or I wouldn't be concerned.

I've heard varisous things from the military match ranging from "very competitive" to "less emphasis on grades and boards scores and more on how you act on rotations, leadership, military commitment, etc...". This seems to correlate to the number of applicants in the student cohort each year - which is not predicatable.

While I agree with NavyFP that one should go for what one really wants, my fear is that it may not be realistic. I'd rather have a second choice rather than run through the GMO loop and reapply again in a couple of years...

 

[notdeadyet]

While I agree with NavyFP that one should go for what one really wants, my fear is that it may not be realistic. I'd rather have a second choice rather than run through the GMO loop and reapply again in a couple of years...

Maybe I misunderstand the military match, but don't you rank five programs? Why not rank your Otolaryngology programs #1, #2, #3 and your second choice residency #4 and #5 if you're worried? Apologies if I'm misunderstanding something in the process.

 

[psychbender]

Maybe I misunderstand the military match, but don't you rank five programs? Why not rank your Otolaryngology programs #1, #2, #3 and your second choice residency #4 and #5 if you're worried? Apologies if I'm misunderstanding something in the process.

Technically, before ranking a second specialty, you have to rank a transitional program. Then, there's the whole algorithm, as it was explained to me: For every level below 1 that you rank a program, that program's rank of you drops by 12. So, Program A ranks you number 1, but you rank them number 2...you are now ranked by them as number 13. So, with your second residency being ranked #5, you are automatically dropped 48 ranks on their list. It may be completely wrong, but that's the way they explained it to us at OBC this past summer.

 

[Habeed]

Wow, that should be stickied. If anything could cause one to avoid the military match, that would be it. That kind of setup strongly encourages back channel communication and deals, since it is absolutely critical to know where a particular program is considering ranking you.

 

[99WtoDoc]

Technically, before ranking a second specialty, you have to rank a transitional program. Then, there's the whole algorithm, as it was explained to me: For every level below 1 that you rank a program, that program's rank of you drops by 12. So, Program A ranks you number 1, but you rank them number 2...you are now ranked by them as number 13. So, with your second residency being ranked #5, you are automatically dropped 48 ranks on their list. It may be completely wrong, but that's the way they explained it to us at OBC this past summer.

Wow! Can anyone else either confirm or deny this? If this is true, that adds another frustration with the military match...

 

[psychbender]

Technically, before ranking a second specialty, you have to rank a transitional program. Then, there's the whole algorithm, as it was explained to me: For every level below 1 that you rank a program, that program's rank of you drops by 12. So, Program A ranks you number 1, but you rank them number 2...you are now ranked by them as number 13. So, with your second residency being ranked #5, you are automatically dropped 48 ranks on their list. It may be completely wrong, but that's the way they explained it to us at OBC this past summer.

Ok, I remembered that I have the CD that they gave out during OBC, so I went back and looked this up. I don't know where I got the 12 from, but that's wrong...my bad. It's only 5. So ranking a program #5 drops you automatically 20 ranks, not 48.

"The Match - computer program adjustment: A candidate’s ranking at a program is lowered 5 places for each position below #1 that the candidate listed that program"

I apologize for the freakout I may have inadvertently caused.

 

[Scooby007]

Ok, I remembered that I have the CD that they gave out during OBC, so I went back and looked this up. I don't know where I got the 12 from, but that's wrong...my bad. It's only 5. So ranking a program #5 drops you automatically 20 ranks, not 48.

"The Match - computer program adjustment: A candidate’s ranking at a program is lowered 5 places for each position below #1 that the candidate listed that program"

I apologize for the freakout I may have inadvertently caused.

Still, it makes you want to really assess which programs you think you have the better chance at- especially if it is a competitive specialty, right?

 

[NavyFP]

Good quote - and something I've been thinking about. However, I'd always also have that nagging question if I am sitting in a GMO spot rather than my second-choice residency program... argh...

Then my next best recommendation is to sit down (or call) one of the Army ENT program directors and ask whether they feel you have a realistic shot. Phrased that way, they should give you a real answer.

 

[edmadison]

The most important issue here is how did you (the OP) do on your rotations. In the Army, away rotations are hugely important. Much more so than in the civilian world. If I were the OP, I would call up the PDs and ask them how you measure up.

Ed