Army physician (O5) demands Obama show birth certificate

[notdeadyet]

At what point does his generally bad decision making affect his clinical acumen? He's already thrown himself and his family under the bus, what makes you think he would care any more for his patients?

That's a scary theory to put into practice.

Hang around enough doctors and you find a frightening number of docs who've made bad business decisions (running their practices into the ground), bad relationship decisions (multiple divorces), and plenty of demonstrations of bad common sense. And some of them are great clinicians.

They can't touch this guy's medical license, nor should they. But they should punish him to the full extent for shirking his duties. Courtmartial, discharge, no retirement/veteran's benefits.

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[grotto]

What if this wasn't an O5, what if it was an E3 or E4? Would you want them to get the same treatment by allowing them to slip out the back door. It would set a bad precedence opening the flood gates to impostors who will decide it may be worth it to challenge the presidents authority because they don't want to be deployed again.

I have some personal experience with an E4 who tried to pull the "illegal war/must not follow an illegal order" thing to justify his going UA and missing ship's movement for deployment to the NAG back when things were not going well over there. He was a CS - or for you non-navy people, a "Culinary Specialist" - he was the "night baker" and his duties consisted of waking up at 2 in the morning and baking bread and other pastries for the mess, then sleeping all day.

He was a real pain in the ***** too - went to the local paper and got his face splashed all over the local news stations. If he wouldn't have done this, he probably would have gotten away with a admin sep and general discharge. Alas, he went to court martial and was convicted, spent time breaking big rocks into smaller ones, and then was dishonorably discharged (good luck breaking into a career with that on your record).

My point is that the level of pain that this guy will receive is directly proportional with the amount of embarrassment he causes the Army. Every time he gets mentioned on CNN or a on Fox at some Tea Party rally, or says that he knows Gen. Casey and was the "flight surgeon for his air crew" he is just digging the hole deeper. It is at this point impossible for the Army not to destroy this guy, and he deserves it. A federal conviction will no doubt ruin this guys life, and if he thinks that people are going to remember the "stand" he took a couple years from now when he is just getting out of Leavenworth then he is sadly mistaken.

It also looks like he hired an idiot lawyer.

 

[grotto]

By the way, since I have finished grading finals and have nothing to do - I found his CV-

Funny he managed to take an acupuncture course while all this was going down - must be looking for his next business when his medical licenses start getting stripped following conviction and dismissal.

CURRICULUM VITAE
(As of February 2010)
LTC (P) Terrence L. Lakin DO, MPH

US Army, Medical Corps
Family Medicine, Board Certified
Occupational and Environmental Medicine, Board Certified
Aviation Medicine

DUTY ADDRESS:

c/o Commander, DiLorenzo TRICARE Health Clinic

OBJECTIVE: Provide quality medical care and wellness services to individuals, family members and organizations that are actively engaged in service to our country during the Global War on Terror. Contribute to these organizations in additional means to include: response, training, education, planning, policy improvement and implementation.
EDUCATION

2010 Acupuncture for Providers course. Navy/DoD sponsored course

2005-2007 Occupational and Environmental Medicine Residency, USUHS, Bethesda, MD

2005-2006 Masters in Public Health, USUHS, Bethesda, MD

1997-1999 Family Medicine Residency, Womack Army Medical Center, Ft. Bragg, NC

1993-1994 Internal Medicine Internship, Fitzsimons Army Medical Center, CO

1989-1993 University of Health Sciences-College of Osteopathic Medicine. D.O. Degree

1983-1988 Colorado College, Colorado Springs, CO B.S. Biology Major

 

[pgg]

My point is that the level of pain that this guy will receive is directly proportional with the amount of embarrassment he causes the Army.

I'm hoping for nothing short of a dishonorable discharge and loss of retirement benefits. Bonus points if he does prison time, but I don't think he'll get thrown in the slammer.


I think what offends me the most about this guy is NOT that he's trying to weasel his way out of a deployment. He's been in the Army a long time and has deployed before, so I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for his service thus far. And god knows we've all seen O5/O6 types work the system to avoid the inconvenience of deployment.

It's that he's using his office and rank for transparently political purposes. He doesn't like the guy who got elected, so he's out there essentially campaigning against him.

At least he wasn't in uniform for that pathetic AC interview.

 

[pgg]

Funny he managed to take an acupuncture course while all this was going down - must be looking for his next business when his medical licenses start getting stripped following conviction and dismissal.

I don't see his medical licenses as being at risk for this ...

1997-1999 Family Medicine Residency, Womack Army Medical Center, Ft. Bragg, NC

1993-1994 Internal Medicine Internship, Fitzsimons Army Medical Center, CO

So we have an Army guy who did a three year GMO tour before matching to FP, having come in via HPSP. Nope, no red flags there ...


Edit to clarify for readers who aren't familiar with military GME -

• it's unusual for anyone in the Army to do a GMO tour between internship and residency
• it's rarer still when the ultimate residency is in primary care
• HPSP confers a 3-4 year service obligation; it's unusual for people whose obligation is up or nearly up (as it was for him after his GMO tour) to choose to recommit to the military for a noncompetitive residency

None of this points to a stellar performer, but who knows. I probably shouldn't judge by CV alone.

 

[a1qwerty55]

Please read the entire post before reflexively denigrating it.

1. I think this guy is an idiot and his refusal to deploy is unforgivable.
2. As far as I can tell President Obama is legally the President, should be afforded the respect of the office, and I like the rest of you will uphold the Constitution by following legal orders.

That being said, there is some smoke and mirrors going on the the press and administration's side. What has been produced although legally meets requirements for a birth certificate, it clearly is not the original (the comments from the Hawaii officials are very nuanced. Kind of like a digital shot record transcribed from a hard copy, the assumption is it was transcribed correctly. I don't understand why the original was not produced years ago and the issue killed. One could conclude there is either something which might be perceived as embarrassing on it or might raise concerns about it's validity.

Again, I'm not making any assertion but a reasonable person could ask the question without being a kook. I however think this guy and most of the Birthers are Kooks.

 

[grotto]

I'm hoping for nothing short of a dishonorable discharge and loss of retirement benefits. Bonus points if he does prison time, but I don't think he'll get thrown in the slammer.

Agreed, i just saw his charge sheet and it is pretty sedate. He will only go to jail if they add a charge - he is currently charged with 4 counts Article 92 and one count of UA, not enough for the brig if you are an officer. I think loss of retirement benefits is almost a foregone conclusion, he only has 18 ycs. If the trial for some reason takes 2 years (it won't - he would be wise to plead out unless he has lost every single one of his marbles - a distinct possibility) and he makes 20 and is actually eligible for retirement it won't matter - there is plenty of precedent for dialing back years service to the "date of last honorable service."

This is an easy case, even for a JAG. The man claimed that his orders were not lawful because the President was not born in the US...unfortunately for him, the UCMJ is clear that the authority for military orders originate from his commanding officer, not the president. The whole point of this charade - getting the president's birth certificate in discovery, is also ridiculous because there isn't "discovery" in a military trial - just an Article 32 hearing, which is not a public matter.

This whole thing was not very well thought out, he legitimately has zero chance of this having a positive outcome for anyone other than the Judge Advocate. People should not have sympathy for this guy - he is a deserter and frankly, a criminal. Instead of waiting two years to retire and freely speak his mind he is, as a relatively senior officer, providing a terrible example to other officers and enlisted and screwing over some other poor doc who now has to go fill his spot.

 

[Perrotfish]

What if this wasn't an O5, what if it was an E3 or E4? Would you want them to get the same treatment by allowing them to slip out the back door..

I think a better annalogy would be a Master Chief with 18 years experience, in which case yes. For me the difference is that this guy has already honorably servered his country, and deployed time after time. When someone like that loses their marbles I think we should do our best to try to protect them from themselves as much as possible. On the other hand when someone who hasn't yet done much for their country decides to make an ass of themselves, and partcularly when that person seems to be trying to put one over on us rather than expressing a sincere belief, thatthe guy I think they should throw the book at. I believe that equally for physicans straight out of residency and E3s trying to get out of their first deployment. Crazieness is a cause for sympathy, selfishness is not.

Edit to clarify for readers who aren't familiar with military GME -

• it's unusual for anyone in the Army to do a GMO tour between internship and residency
• it's rarer still when the ultimate residency is in primary care
• HPSP confers a 3-4 year service obligation; it's unusual for people whose obligation is up or nearly up (as it was for him after his GMO tour) to choose to recommit to the military for a noncompetitive residency

This probably isn't as big a red flag as you think. He probably wanted something uber competitive like ortho, didn't match, opted to do a 3 year GMO tour rather than settle for primary care, and then found out that he still wasn't going to match and finally decided to settle. I would bet that he could have gotten the primary care residency without the GMO tour if he had wanted it. Then he stayed in because, well, the military isn't a bad deal financially if you're going into primary care anyway.

That being said, there is some smoke and mirrors going on the the press and administration's side. What has been produced although legally meets requirements for a birth certificate, it clearly is not the original (the comments from the Hawaii officials are very nuanced. Kind of like a digital shot record transcribed from a hard copy, the assumption is it was transcribed correctly. I don't understand why the original was not produced years ago and the issue killed. One could conclude there is either something which might be perceived as embarrassing on it or might raise concerns about it's validity.

Maybe he/the state of Hawaii don't actually have a paper copy of the origional? That seems like the simplest explanation. I would have no idea where to find mine, if I needed it. I would be asking the state of Virginia for a form just like the one that Obama has offered.

 

[Apollyon]

They can't touch this guy's medical license, nor should they.

I don't see his medical licenses as being at risk for this.

Isn't being convicted under general court martial counted as a felony conviction? And, if this guy is as much of a dope as he sounds, when he goes in front of the state boards where he's licensed and acts the same way, well, I would NOT be surprised - at ALL - if he lost a license. Heck, even if it's a misdemeanor, but one that involves professional behavior (and UA does), the state is likely to censure, reprimand, or otherwise penalize someone.

If a person can get in trouble with the state board for losing a malpractice case (in GA, if you lose, the case also goes to peer review to see if you met the standard of care, or are a "danger to the public"), or for convictions for rape, sex abuse, drug diversion, tax evasion, or DWI/DUI, or for any felony (as that is indicative of "moral turpitude or defect"), then a felony from the military (and making an ass of yourself at that) will stick like glue.

 

[grotto]

That being said, there is some smoke and mirrors going on the the press and administration's side. What has been produced although legally meets requirements for a birth certificate, it clearly is not the original (the comments from the Hawaii officials are very nuanced. Kind of like a digital shot record transcribed from a hard copy, the assumption is it was transcribed correctly. I don't understand why the original was not produced years ago and the issue killed. One could conclude there is either something which might be perceived as embarrassing on it or might raise concerns about it's validity.

Maybe, but the preponderance of the evidence points to the fact that he was born in Hawaii when he said he was. If I run for president someday, people will probably come after me - my birth certificate was lost and the state of Michigan only issues a Certificate of Live Birth, same as the president has. In many states, birth certificates are not public record. At this point, the birther issue is just a strawman for other political issues people have with the president.

 

[dru2002]

Please read the entire post before reflexively denigrating it.

1. I think this guy is an idiot and his refusal to deploy is unforgivable.
2. As far as I can tell President Obama is legally the President, should be afforded the respect of the office, and I like the rest of you will uphold the Constitution by following legal orders.

That being said, there is some smoke and mirrors going on the the press and administration's side. What has been produced although legally meets requirements for a birth certificate, it clearly is not the original (the comments from the Hawaii officials are very nuanced. Kind of like a digital shot record transcribed from a hard copy, the assumption is it was transcribed correctly. I don't understand why the original was not produced years ago and the issue killed. One could conclude there is either something which might be perceived as embarrassing on it or might raise concerns about it's validity.

Again, I'm not making any assertion but a reasonable person could ask the question without being a kook. I however think this guy and most of the Birthers are Kooks.

Seems pretty clear to me they have the original birth certificate. http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf

As president he shouldn't have to jump through hoops that no president before him and likely none after him had to jump through.

 

[a1qwerty55]

Seems pretty clear to me they have the original birth certificate. http://hawaii.gov/health/about/pr/2008/08-93.pdf

As president he shouldn't have to jump through hoops that no president before him and likely none after him had to jump through.

So apparently it exists. Why then hasn't it been released?

I don't think the President is compelled to release it, nor do I think that at this point it would be wise since it would send the message than an Army Officer can give the President an ultimatum.

There probably is something that the administration thinks is embarrassing - maybe this birth name is different, maybe his race has something which today wouldn't be PC to use etc. His mom was a white unwed teen mother in in 1961 - not exactly a socially acceptable situation at that time so who knows what she or the doctor filled out. There really has to be something on it we doesn't want to be public, otherwise there is no politically smart reason not to release.

 

[244913]

Pgg,

Army GMO tours were commonplace in the mid-late 1990's. Back then the system was analogous to the Navy's situation today.

Even today, Army GMO tours are more common then you think. Especially for specialties such as ER, Ortho, Anesthesia. The HPSP classes of 2007 and 2008 sent roughly 10-15% of their folks into GMO. Flight Surgeon billets in the Army are almost exclusively filled by GMO's now.

The severe applicant shortage led to fewer GMO's in 2009 and 2010 but GMO is hardly a thing of the past....

- 61N

 

[pgg]

Army GMO tours were commonplace in the mid-late 1990's. Back then the system was analogous to the Navy's situation today.

OK ... shrug.

Though even in today's Navy, GMO tours for FP hopefuls are not the norm. Could be that he went after a more competitive specialty first and then eventually decided on FP.

Anyway, his academic qualifications aren't the issue. I shouldn't have brought it up.

Isn't being convicted under general court martial counted as a felony conviction?

I think it depends on the severity of the charges. Not all convictions from general courts martial count as felonies. And even a felony conviction doesn't inevitably result in the loss of a medical license. The medical board is going to ask about it, and he'll say the military kicked him out for refusing to deploy, and they'll probably say OK, carry on. It's not like he'd be going before the board as a sex offender or guy who did time for armed robbery.

And not that my opinion matters, but I'm OK with that. As much as I want to see him hammered down and out of uniform, when it's done and over and he's a civilian again, he ought to be able to be a doctor again.