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This is the first physician I have heard of who has been killed by direct enemy action. I know we had one Army Colonel who died in a helicopter crash and an Army Captain who died of 'non-battle related' causes. I don't know of any other physician deaths.
 

mfrizzo3

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TRENTON, N.J. — A New Jersey doctor —who was a well-known trauma surgeon at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania — has been killed in Iraq, according to the Department of Defense.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/12/ap_surgeonkilled_122708/


Sad...did anyone know this guy? I can't imagine this sort of thing happens frequently to docs. He was part of a FST unit, though.

Don't let the FST moniker fool you. He was at a CSH when he was struck.
 
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pseudoknot

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This is the first physician I have heard of who has been killed by direct enemy action. I know we had one Army Colonel who died in a helicopter crash and an Army Captain who died of 'non-battle related' causes. I don't know of any other physician deaths.
LTC Mark Taylor, a surgeon, was killed by a rocket attack on 3/20/04:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=118755

A more detailed obituary is here:
http://www.legacy.com/ModestoBee/DeathNotices.asp?Page=LifeStory&PersonId=2126910
 
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Boopieness

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There have been at the very least three previous Army physician deaths in theater.

Two from what I remember did stupid things in that they resigned their commission or chose to serve as a combat medic instead of as a medical officer.

DON'T DO THAT! (You are a great force multiplier as a doc, your no good to anybody as a dead combat medic.)

This story says he was a combat medic with the reserves. Sounds like this makes three doc/combat medics down.

The other was Brian Allgood, he also did something stupid, in that he was shot down in a helicopter that was filled with top heavy (high ranking) group. All in 1 helicopter. (Don't bunch up.)

Allgood was a Westpointer, who was in charge of all medical units in Iraq when he died. He was a tremendous leadership loss for us. As are all of these physicians.

Stay alive and don't do stupid things.
Don't ever go joyriding. For any reason. Go up only if absolutely necessary in theater,(Helicopters are not as reliable as fixed wing aircraft) to save lives or if you would otherwise have to go via convoy.
Don't bunch up.
Be a medical officer, combat medic is not the greatest force multiplier.

Peace

I read another article that says he was a major? Did he resign his commission?
 
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TivoThis

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TRENTON, N.J. — A New Jersey doctor —who was a well-known trauma surgeon at the Hospital of the University of Pennsylvania — has been killed in Iraq, according to the Department of Defense.

http://www.armytimes.com/news/2008/12/ap_surgeonkilled_122708/


Sad...did anyone know this guy? I can't imagine this sort of thing happens frequently to docs. He was part of a FST unit, though.
Met this guy after his first tour of Iraq, back when I was in ROTC. Great guy, and what he did was exactly what I want to do(trauma). He gave me some great advice.
RIP.
 

Boopieness

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There have been at the very least three previous Army physician deaths in theater.

Two from what I remember did stupid things in that they resigned their commission or chose to serve as a combat medic instead of as a medical officer.

DON'T DO THAT! (You are a great force multiplier as a doc, your no good to anybody as a dead combat medic.)

This story says he was a combat medic with the reserves. Sounds like this makes three doc/combat medics down.

The other was Brian Allgood, he also did something stupid, in that he was shot down in a helicopter that was filled with top heavy (high ranking) group. All in 1 helicopter. (Don't bunch up.)

Allgood was a Westpointer, who was in charge of all medical units in Iraq when he died. He was a tremendous leadership loss for us. As are all of these physicians.

Stay alive and don't do stupid things.
Don't ever go joyriding. For any reason. Go up only if absolutely necessary in theater,(Helicopters are not as reliable as fixed wing aircraft) to save lives or if you would otherwise have to go via convoy.
Don't bunch up.
Be a medical officer, combat medic is not the greatest force multiplier.

Peace
 

pseudoknot

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This story says he was a combat medic with the reserves. Sounds like this makes three doc/combat medics down.

The other was Brian Allgood, he also did something stupid, in that he was shot down in a helicopter that was filled with top heavy (high ranking) group. All in 1 helicopter. (Don't bunch up.)
Dr. Taylor was a major at the time of his death, and was posthumously promoted LTC. I think the article was using "medic" in a generic sense meaning any medical personnel.

I didn't think that one necessarily had a lot of personal choice in what vehicle to board when serving in the military in a combat zone. War is risky and I think it's a little harsh to suggest that casualties all brought their deaths on themselves by making "stupid" decisions.
 

sethco

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Recently an O-6 Flight Surgeon/RAM was killed during a plane crash (B-2 I think, but not sure) over the Pacific. Can't really give much details because I think the AIB is still ongoing. Once that is complete, it will be released to the public
 

The White Coat Investor

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Anyone else know more about the GMO and the mortar? That one is new to me.

I do know a doc who has actually shot people in theaterl. Not very common, but occasionally happens I guess.
 

a1qwerty55

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There have been at the very least three previous Army physician deaths in theater.

Two from what I remember did stupid things in that they resigned their commission or chose to serve as a combat medic instead of as a medical officer.

DON'T DO THAT! (You are a great force multiplier as a doc, your no good to anybody as a dead combat medic.)

This story says he was a combat medic with the reserves. Sounds like this makes three doc/combat medics down.

The other was Brian Allgood, he also did something stupid, in that he was shot down in a helicopter that was filled with top heavy (high ranking) group. All in 1 helicopter. (Don't bunch up.)

Allgood was a Westpointer, who was in charge of all medical units in Iraq when he died. He was a tremendous leadership loss for us. As are all of these physicians.

Stay alive and don't do stupid things.
Don't ever go joyriding. For any reason. Go up only if absolutely necessary in theater,(Helicopters are not as reliable as fixed wing aircraft) to save lives or if you would otherwise have to go via convoy.
Don't bunch up.
Be a medical officer, combat medic is not the greatest force multiplier.

Peace
Don't put uninformed garbage online.

Both surgeons were working in that capacity.
We lost at least one PA, a senior respiratory therapist, some nurses. All are big losses many were at CSH's, ever heard of mortar fire? I know of several docs with purple hearts as well.

None were being stupid as far as I can tell.
 

crazybrancato

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don't mind Boopieness all! he sounds like a really stand-up kinda guy:

I have lined up a full time position in government doing employment physicals, no brainer work in a nice locale. No weekends, holidays off, no call, no malpractice worries, no diagnosis, no treatment, no prescriptions unless its for friends with simple problems. (I still have a license.)
from: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6782276#post6782276

So let me get this straight, you're tired of working weekends, some holidays, tired of making call, dealing w/ malpractice concerns, diagnosing, treating, prescribing?!? Wow, sounds like you're a great physician.
 

notdeadyet

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So let me get this straight, you're tired of working weekends, some holidays, tired of making call, dealing w/ malpractice concerns, diagnosing, treating, prescribing?!? Wow, sounds like you're a great physician.
Though I completely disagree with Boopieness' post, aside from the last three in your list, you're pretty much describing what a lot of us are looking for in a job.

I won't say no to working weekends/holidays/nights, taking call, and dealing with malpractice. But if I get offered a job where all that goes away, I'll jump on it.
 

crazybrancato

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Though I completely disagree with Boopieness' post, aside from the last three in your list.
wasn't my list, it was Boopies!

Agreed. my point here in that Boopie is an F-in idiot (pardon my french) who wants to be called "Doctor" but not have to act like one. And such a person shouldn't be telling military physicians how to do their jobs. anyhoo . . .
 

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don't mind Boopieness all! he sounds like a really stand-up kinda guy:



from: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=6782276#post6782276

So let me get this straight, you're tired of working weekends, some holidays, tired of making call, dealing w/ malpractice concerns, diagnosing, treating, prescribing?!? Wow, sounds like you're a great physician.
You'll notice that the doctors here who are either attendings or residents will not to be too critical of Boopieness over the above post (the one you linked that is, I'm sure they'll be critical of his prior posts) b/c we all empathize and all have felt the same way at some point. You seem to think you've found some sort of smoking gun, but you're just continuing to point out how naive you are about training to be a physician.
 

crazybrancato

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oh cmon. You don't have to be a trained physician to have two bits of common sense.

If you heard a MD say they're not interested in diagnosing, treating, or prescribing to patients, but still wanted to do the minimal amount of work to be called or designated as a "doctor" . . . that wouldn't bother you a little bit? And then if this guy logs on here and lectures to you about the "dangers" of military life (as if you didn't already know), and tells you what kind of transportation to take in theater, etc etc, that still doesn't bother you???

I can understand not wanting to work ridiculuous hours, I can understand leaving the profession alltogether . . .but just being a hanger-on, doing the minimal to get paid and recognized, that's hardly admirable. Look at it from the perspective of a patient, which you are, I am. Would you want this guy to be your doctor?

you're just raggin on me b/c we have prior history. but you know I'm right in this case.
 

BOHICA-FIGMO

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Recently an O-6 Flight Surgeon/RAM was killed during a plane crash (B-2 I think, but not sure) over the Pacific. Can't really give much details because I think the AIB is still ongoing. Once that is complete, it will be released to the public
I think that was the B-52 crash off Guam... Only two seats in the B-2
 

BOHICA-FIGMO

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Don't ever go joyriding. For any reason. Go up only if absolutely necessary in theater,(Helicopters are not as reliable as fixed wing aircraft) to save lives or if you would otherwise have to go via convoy.
Be careful not to generalize too much, since helos were in fact SAFER than road convoys during a huge chunk of the current conflict. Put enough RPGs in the air and a blind insurgent is bound to find a helo every once in awhile.
 

MaximusD

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Be careful not to generalize too much, since helos were in fact SAFER than road convoys during a huge chunk of the current conflict. Put enough RPGs in the air and a blind insurgent is bound to find a helo every once in awhile.
No doubt, but I think you misread his post. He said to not take a helo ride UNLESS the alternative was a road convoy meaning road convoys are more dangerous than helicopter rides.

Or am I misunderstanding you both?? Seems to me I hear about more IED deaths than helicopters going down on the news, but that's the news and I'm still IRR.
 

BOHICA-FIGMO

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No doubt, but I think you misread his post. He said to not take a helo ride UNLESS the alternative was a road convoy meaning road convoys are more dangerous than helicopter rides.

Or am I misunderstanding you both?? Seems to me I hear about more IED deaths than helicopters going down on the news, but that's the news and I'm still IRR.
I think I might have misread. I think you're right that he means only go via helo if convoy is the other options. :oops:
 
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