ArNG without ASR- Worth it?!?

[Asklepian]

I am hoping to find some ArNGers to respond to this. I just spoke with local ArNG Special Branch Officer Recruiting, and they were able to offer me direct commission as O-1 along with potential for MDSSP/STRAP, HPLRP, and the Special Pay Program, on top of non-deployable status during times as a student and in residency. I know that with the ASR program this would have been EXTREMELY enticing to me, but it still doesn't seem like a bad deal without it.

I was just wondering if anyone could share their thoughts/experiences, particularly those who have gone through as a med student/resident in the ArNG.

Thanks!

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[notdeadyet]

First off, Army National Guard usually abbreviates ARNG...

I just spoke with local ArNG Special Branch Officer Recruiting, and they were able to offer me direct commission as O-1 along with potential for MDSSP/STRAP, HPLRP, and the Special Pay Program, on top of non-deployable status during times as a student and in residency. I know that with the ASR program this would have been EXTREMELY enticing to me, but it still doesn't seem like a bad deal without it.

Agreed. ASR was an incredibly sweet gig and though it got a lot of docs into the pipeline, the irony is that it almost had a negative effect in that those considering ASR were then turned off by all of the other programs, which suffered by comparison.

The other programs are still good ones. I think taking MDSSP plus STRAP is a roll of the dice, because you're committing to a whole lot of years. But taking just MDSSP, you're clear of obligation within 3-5 years after residency. As a BC/BE doc, you can get up to $250K in student loan repayment for reservist duty over six years.

If you want to go active duty, there are a lot of programs to help you pay your way. If you want to go reserve corps, there are also a lot of great programs. If you're willing to drill six years in a deployable status, you can pay off med school. And that's as a reservist, where you still have a civilian career.

My only recommendation when it comes to military programs is to take little bites. Unless you're prior service, you may very well hate the military culture and want to get out as soon as possible. Do not make the mistake so many do and end up owing much of your 20's/30's to the military without knowing what you're getting into.

 

[infirmarydude]

OP: great post! i have the same question!

@notdeadyet: thanks for your input!

I spoke to a recruiter yesterday as well. One of the options that I was thinking about was:
being commissioned now (at the start of MS1) and not take any incentives - with med school and residency that will fill 7 of my 8 year automatic commitment.

After residency I would take the 40k/yr for the six years.

I am just not sure how tough it would be drilling once a month during school, rotations, residency, etc...

Any thoughts?

Thanks

 

[notdeadyet]

being commissioned now (at the start of MS1) and not take any incentives - with med school and residency that will fill 7 of my 8 year automatic commitment.

After residency I would take the 40k/yr for the six years.

You'd be giving up free money, no?

If you're going to do that, why not take MDSSP for the last one or two years of medical school (depending on your residency length)? This way, you'd pay back your MDSSP commitment by the time you finished residency and could immediately start taking the 40k/yr loan repayment?

I am just not sure how tough it would be drilling once a month during school, rotations, residency, etc...

If you join specifically for medical school, you're eligible for flex-training, which means you can drill as little as once every three months if you have schedule conflicts. Med school is a busy time, but everyone can free up one weekend per quarter.

 

[infirmarydude]

Thanks for all the info!

the recruiter I spoke to told me the flexi train depends on my local regulations.. i sent an email out to an ASR to ask about that specifically

Here is a key question I have:

When you sign up to any service you have an eight year commitment. If I take the stipend, I have add an additional 2:1 per year commitment.

So is it:

I have eight years PLUS one year per 6 months of MDSSP
(so three years med school = 6 years + original eight + 6 years 40/k loan repayment = total time with guard 20 years)
or
Eight years and the one year per 6 months adds into that somehow?

Thanks!

 

[CEG31]

Ok, first thing's first, if you don't understand the payback for MDSSP, I'd definitely recommend doing a lot more research before you sign up for anything.

MDSSP has a 2:1 payback but this time commitment is paid back concurrently with your original commitment. Meaning that if you sign up at the beginning of Med school, you can take MDSSP for MS3 and MS4 years and you will owe a total of 4 years for that, which coincidentally is how many years you have left in your initial obligation....see the logic? If you skip out on taking MDSSP during years 3 and 4, you're throwing away free money.

A lot of the repayment for incentives can be done concurrently, but some of it cannot, it's really important that you learn all the fine print and details about each incentive before you sign up so you aren't surprised by anything down the road.

 

[infirmarydude]

Thanks for the reply and info!!

 

[Ioriscrub]

I'm hoping I can get a question answered off of this thread. I'm going to be in the National Guard while a medical student per my ROTC obligation. I've been debating whether or not it would be good for me to take MDSSP and/or STRAP. I owe 8 years of obligation in the guard from ROTC, but from what I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that time in medical school and residency counts towards payback, so that would be eaten up for me once I'm out of residency. If I took MDSSP all four years, how much obligation would I owe, and do you think it would be worth it? Thanks.

 

[aspiringOSTEO]

1

 

[EMH]

OP: great post! i have the same question!

@notdeadyet: thanks for your input!

I spoke to a recruiter yesterday as well. One of the options that I was thinking about was:
being commissioned now (at the start of MS1) and not take any incentives - with med school and residency that will fill 7 of my 8 year automatic commitment.

After residency I would take the 40k/yr for the six years.

I am just not sure how tough it would be drilling once a month during school, rotations, residency, etc...

Any thoughts?

Thanks

For what it's worth, if I joined now this is what I would elect to do. I don't like the idea of the loss of choice down the road. I like the idea of being able to say screw you guys, I'm going home.

 

[notdeadyet]

I'm going to be in the National Guard while a medical student per my ROTC obligation. I've been debating whether or not it would be good for me to take MDSSP and/or STRAP. I owe 8 years of obligation in the guard from ROTC, but from what I understand (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that time in medical school and residency counts towards payback, so that would be eaten up for me once I'm out of residency.

You do not payback time while at the same time taking benefits that incur time. So if you have 8 years obligation from ROTC, you can burn those off during med school and residency, but only providing you do not take something like MDSSP or STRAP.

If I took MDSSP all four years, how much obligation would I owe, and do you think it would be worth it?

If you took MDSSP all four years, you'd owe 8 years for ROTC plus 8 years for MDSSP. You wouldn't begin payback of your obligation until you graduated medical school, so you'd owe 16 years of drilling, the countdown beginning the day you graduate medical school.

Whether it's worth it or not is debatable, but imho, that's a pretty big bite. If you're not prior service (and ROTC doesn't count), committing 16 years of your life, even part-time, is a huge leap of faith. Look at how many people are miserable with HPSP and count down the days like convicts, and they've only got four years to burn. This is the sort of obligation you incur when you want money for college as well as med school. It adds up.

 

[notdeadyet]

So can your time accumulated from taking MDSSP also be served concurrently with the additional three year obligation you take on when you sign up for HPLRP?

No. There is almost NO concurrent payback in the military. The only exceptions I know of (on the Guard side) is that your ASR obligation and your 8 year Military Service Obligation can be paid back concurrently. Anything else you sign that requires you to do X years drilling payback can't be taken with HPLRP, Special Pay, MDSSP/STRAP payback, etc. which also can't be taken at the same time.

So your payback for MDSSP must be finished before you can sign on for HPLRP.

 

[Ioriscrub]

Originally Posted by notdeadyet
You do not payback time while at the same time taking benefits that incur time. So if you have 8 years obligation from ROTC, you can burn those off during med school and residency, but only providing you do not take something like MDSSP or STRAP.

Thanks a lot. So I could go through medical school without benefits, graduate, burn off my ROTC obligation during medical school, and then HPLR would be available to me?

 

[notdeadyet]

Thanks a lot. So I could go through medical school without benefits, graduate, burn off my ROTC obligation during medical school, and then HPLR would be available to me?

I know nothing about ROTC, so check with whoever controls your payback for that. But whenever you burn off your obligation you owe for ROTC, you can begin taking the HPLRP, providing you've finished residency.

 

[Dr Funk]

@notdeadyet: There is much wisdom in your posts. I too have met many people who are counting down the days.

@OP: I am one of the lucky few who missed ASR by days mad:, dont get me started). However, as mentioned above, there can be a flex training option. I actually had to transfer to a unit a bit farther away to find a commander who would get on-board with the flex. That said, drilling 4 times a year still ends up being a pain in the rear, but it is worth the drill check and MDSSP cash.

The key is finding the right commander and unit. Ask your recruiter where the other ASRs drill as they are likely to have done the ground work for you.

 

[Ioriscrub]

I know nothing about ROTC, so check with whoever controls your payback for that. But whenever you burn off your obligation you owe for ROTC, you can begin taking the HPLRP, providing you've finished residency.

I checked with my Guard recruiter. He told me that time in medical school does indeed count towards an ROTC obligation. You are also non-deployable through your residency training. This means that with a four year residency program, you could be completely done with your military obligation right as you finish residency. You would also qualify to take loan repayment and special pay options afterwards. Unlike HPSP, you would have the same flexibility of residency options as your peers, and there is no possibility of a GMO tour before residency. Seems like a much better deal all things considered.

 

[notdeadyet]

I checked with my Guard recruiter. He told me that time in medical school does indeed count towards an ROTC obligation. You are also non-deployable through your residency training. This means that with a four year residency program, you could be completely done with your military obligation right as you finish residency.

Be careful with this, though. In the military, you can not accrue obligation while paying off obligation at the same time. If you take a program that incrues obligation, you are no longer paying off your ROTC time.

Example 1: You owe eight years for ROTC. You join the Guard and go to med school and residency without taking any programs. You finish your ROTC obligation and you can begin taking HPLRP or Special Pay.

Example 2: You owe eight years from ROTC. You join the Guard and go to medical school without taking any programs. In your four year residency, you decide to take STRAP, which accrues 8 years of drill with the Guard. While you are taking STRAP, you are not paying off your ROTC years. When you graduate residency, you spend 12 years drilling to pay off ROTC and STRAP. After the 12 years, you can begin taking HPLRP or Special Pay.

I still think the Guard is one of the best military options out there, but keep the above in mind. If you owe years to the military, you can't pay them off while accruing more.

 

[Ioriscrub]

Be careful with this, though. In the military, you can not accrue obligation while paying off obligation at the same time. If you take a program that incrues obligation, you are no longer paying off your ROTC time.

Example 1: You owe eight years for ROTC. You join the Guard and go to med school and residency without taking any programs. You finish your ROTC obligation and you can begin taking HPLRP or Special Pay.

Example 2: You owe eight years from ROTC. You join the Guard and go to medical school without taking any programs. In your four year residency, you decide to take STRAP, which accrues 8 years of drill with the Guard. While you are taking STRAP, you are not paying off your ROTC years. When you graduate residency, you spend 12 years drilling to pay off ROTC and STRAP. After the 12 years, you can begin taking HPLRP or Special Pay.

I still think the Guard is one of the best military options out there, but keep the above in mind. If you owe years to the military, you can't pay them off while accruing more.

Definitely true. Your first example is what I'm planning on. I was just trying to post more information to any pre-med ROTC cadets in a similar situation to me. My cadre are all pretty clueless when it comes to pre-med issues. Thanks a lot for the feedback.