[Article] “AMA officially recognizes COMLEX equality with USMLE”.

[libertyyne]

The worst thing that could happen for DO students is for Step 1 to become P/F. It's literally our only chance to match competitively without padding your resume with complete BS. I am all for anything that is a standardized test especially if it means that I don't have to volunteer/shadow/research (depending on the field)/pre-med style crap.

The single best thing about med school is that I just do well academically, be congenial, and have good hobbies outside of studying. That's all it's gonna take for most situations. You stop stratifying students via the MCAT and Step 1 and suddenly school reputation matters even more than it already does (Ivy students getting 225 and making plastics etc). This would be very bad.

it would be bad for everyone who does not have home programs and connections or pedigree. Including mid to lower tier MD schools.

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[AnatomyGrey12]

(Ivy students getting 225 and making plastics etc)

To be fair this already kinda happens, although yes your post is 100% spot on.

it would be bad for everyone who does not have home programs and connections or pedigree. Including mid to lower tier MD schools.

Yep. It would be detrimental to tons of people.

 

[Neopolymath]

To be fair this already kinda happens, although yes your post is 100% spot on.



Yep. It would be detrimental to tons of people.

Yeah, that was my example of us already have a caste system of sorts in all honesty. I'm not going to argue that those ivy students aren't great in other areas (usually all other areas + huge connections) and I certainly wouldn't get mad that some Harvard student cut in line so to speak based on the status quo, but I would have an issue with the vast majority of students being qualified based on their school when school choice is multi-factorial and frankly down to dumb luck at times. We already discourage ranking DO programs for a few reasons, but I think a lot of MD programs are exactly the same too so it just seems silly and weird.

 

[alprazoslam]

The worst thing that could happen for DO students is for Step 1 to become P/F. It's literally our only chance to match competitively without padding your resume with complete BS. I am all for anything that is a standardized test especially if it means that I don't have to volunteer/shadow/research (depending on the field)/pre-med style crap.

The single best thing about med school is that I just do well academically, be congenial, and have good hobbies outside of studying. That's all it's gonna take for most situations. You stop stratifying students via the MCAT and Step 1 and suddenly school reputation matters even more than it already does (Ivy students getting 225 and making plastics etc). This would be very bad.

I don’t think residencys would stand for this. Otherwise how can you tell if somebody has ANY knowledge at all. Only looking at Research and volunteering and whatever other bs out there should is not going to held determine if somebody has the baseline knowledge to function as a resident. StandardiZed tests aren’t great at predicting success but it’s the best we got.


The AMA is dumb and this will probably never happen.

And what neo says it will stratify people by MCAT which is far far far worse than the usmle for predicting resident success.


Hate to say it but it’s almost always the ones who barely passed boards that struggle in clinical. If you don’t know it from a MCQ you sure dafuq won’t know it when you have to dry recall certain facts

 

[SterlingMaloryArcher]

Just curious, if you take COMLEX and USMLE and do mediocre/average on COMLEX and Good/exceptional on USMLE will the COMPLEX score hurt you?

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Just curious, if you take COMLEX and USMLE and do mediocre/average on COMLEX and Good/exceptional on USMLE will the COMPLEX score hurt you?

Applying to competitive specialties at former AOA programs? Yeah probably. They are still largely using COMLEX to filter DO applicants. Our programs literally don't even look at USMLE scores. Basically anything else? Nope.

 

[DO2015CA]

The worst thing that could happen for DO students is for Step 1 to become P/F. It's literally our only chance to match competitively without padding your resume with complete BS. I am all for anything that is a standardized test especially if it means that I don't have to volunteer/shadow/research (depending on the field)/pre-med style crap.

The single best thing about med school is that I just do well academically, be congenial, and have good hobbies outside of studying. That's all it's gonna take for most situations. You stop stratifying students via the MCAT and Step 1 and suddenly school reputation matters even more than it already does (Ivy students getting 225 and making plastics etc). This would be very bad.

I agree about the numerical numbers but I disagree about the bold. DOs are often mistaken that it’s all about number. “As long as I get a 250 I can match ortho.” Where the reality is we need to make your applications mirror images of theirs. They have extracurricular experiences. They have research. We need it to be in a way that when the PD removes both of our schools listed on the application, they can not tell which is the MD and which is the DO.

 

[Neopolymath]

I agree about the numerical numbers but I disagree about the bold. DOs are often mistaken that it’s all about number. “As long as I get a 250 I can match ortho.” Where the reality is we need to make your applications mirror images of theirs. They have extracurricular experiences. They have research. We need it to be in a way that when the PD removes both of our schools listed on the application, they can not tell which is the MD and which is the DO.

I don't disagree with your point at all, but I was alluding to the pre-med type of stuff like being on BS leadership panels and doing some fake charity. Everyone knows they are a joke including residents/PDs. Research is a field by field thing and obviously what level of training program you are targeting type of deal still in my opinion. Yeah, it will never hurt to have it but in most fields its not going to close doors at non-ivory towers! I don't think you can just get a 250 and suddenly doors are open. The dogma on SDN is that a good score just means that doors aren't closed, but you don't get new opportunities. This is fine and I agree with the concept. What I don't think is talked about quite as much is that being a normal person with varied interests and long-term passions outside of work are what will carry you in interviews and show that you are a unique person that people can picture, not just numbers on you app summary sheet and medicine related stuff. I'm obviously biased but some guy with a 240, 2 case reports, was an exec on the liver focus group at school, went to the gym to do cardio 3x a week, and watches prime time tv is not more impressive than a guy with a 250, no pubs, has a family and real hobbies (ie not listing lightly exercising as a hobby like people do now). I'm not 23 and I have more important **** to do after school than do that garbage and I didn't do it as a pre-med either. We will see how that works out later of course.

You take away a data point to gauge academic achievement and you make doing this other stuff the only way to differentiate. That would be awful IMO.

 

[QueenJames]

LOL

this doesn't mean jack.

All the people in my class who only took COMLEX keep posting this on their FB page like it's some saving grace.

2020 is gonna be an ugly year.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

LOL

this doesn't mean jack.

All the people in my class who only took COMLEX keep posting this on their FB page like it's some saving grace.

2020 is gonna be an ugly year.

Not for me . Its gonna be beautiful.

 

[moonwake]

If anything it makes me wonder why now. Why 2018? There has to be some political move in the timing.

 

[QueenJames]

Not for me . Its gonna be beautiful.

Speak that **** into existence. That's why I **** with you.

Yaasss.

 

[libertyyne]

If anything it makes me wonder why now. Why 2018? There has to be some political move in the timing.

because residency merger is finalizing, nothing else. AMA is a reactionary organization that a majority of physicians dont join. The worst is when you see student AMA reps go on about how they passed resolutions, but the resolutions have no power.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

COMLEX should cease to exist. We should all take USMLE and DOs should take USMLE + OMM, and that OMM score would be vitally important if you plan on going to a DO-acknowledging residency

 

[shadowlightfox]

COMLEX should cease to exist. We should all take USMLE and DOs should take USMLE + OMM, and that OMM score would be vitally important if you plan on going to a DO-acknowledging residency

Lol your second half of the post is never gonna happen. The AOA will make sure of that. COMLEX is practically the only reason people even remotely care about OMM. Otherwise, once COMLEX ceases to exist and there's only USMLE, very very few, if any, will even care about OMM, even if they want to go into DO-acknowledging residency.

Hell, very few people care about OMM as is even with COMLEX!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

even if they want to go into DO-acknowledging residency.

lol I'm not sure what that even means

 

[shadowlightfox]

lol I'm not sure what that even means

Me neither. Don't ask me. I'm just parroting what he said.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

lol I'm not sure what that even means

Aren't the old AOA-accredited residencies maintaining their DO recognition post-merger in 2020?

 

[KeikoTanaka]

ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS)

These are all soon to be ACGME programs with Osteopathic Recognition.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Aren't the old AOA-accredited residencies maintaining their DO recognition post-merger in 2020?

ACGME - Accreditation Data System (ADS)

These are all soon to be ACGME programs with Osteopathic Recognition.

I'm not sure what your question is.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

Aren't the old AOA-accredited residencies maintaining their DO recognition post-merger in 2020?

In FM yes, in many others no, cause of the curriculum requirements. AOA made Osteopathic recognition another hoop to jump through and programs that get tons of apps won't have any reason to do it.

 

[QueenJames]

There was some stat on here floating around that only 70-something percent of programs made it past the checklist for ACGME accreditation.

IDK about y'all but 30% of programs not making that cutoff is pretty damn big to me.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

There was some stat on here floating around that only 70-something percent of programs made it past the checklist for ACGME accreditation.

IDK about y'all but 30% of programs not making that cutoff is pretty damn big to me.

Hey man got to have standards. And... thats what she said.

 

[QueenJames]

Hey man got to have standards. And... thats what she said.

I feel.

I will just apply to 250 FM spots like my buddy from the caribbean did and slaughter a goat for sacrifice to the gods and hope to match SOMEWHERE.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I feel.

I will just apply to 250 FM spots like my buddy from the caribbean did and slaughter a goat for sacrifice to the gods and hope to match SOMEWHERE.

Dude you took and passed USMLE. Those programs will be begging you to apply. Surely a rabbit would suffice.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

I'm not sure what your question is.

Not sure what you don't understand - are you intentionally responding just to be toxic and poke? Otherwise, I'm not sure what your point is and what you're missing about my very benign question/statement.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

There was some stat on here floating around that only 70-something percent of programs made it past the checklist for ACGME accreditation.

IDK about y'all but 30% of programs not making that cutoff is pretty damn big to me.

We're still 2 years out, that's a significant amount of time to up standards of programs, no? Unless of course it's huge disparities in physical facilities that are lacking

 

[BorntobeDO?]

We're still 2 years out, that's a significant amount of time to up standards of programs, no? Unless of course it's huge disparities in physical facilities that are lacking

IF they don't have it by now, they very likely won't. There are some that will make it, but the majority that remain will not.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Not sure what you don't understand - are you intentionally responding just to be toxic and poke? Otherwise, I'm not sure what your point is and what you're missing about my very benign question/statement.

Lol ok so you used a term that made zero sense (DO acknowledging) and then asked something regarding to Osteopathic recognition. Those two things together left me confused as to what exactly you were asking or getting at. Not being toxic, just asking for some clarification because your statement didn’t make sense.

So I ask again, what is your question? I’ll be happy to help answer it but I need to know why exactly you want to know about Osteopathic recognition.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

Lol ok so you used a term that made zero sense (DO acknowledging) and then asked something regarding to Osteopathic recognition. Those two things together left me confused as to what exactly you were asking or getting at. Not being toxic, just asking for some clarification because your statement didn’t make sense.

So I ask again, what is your question? I’ll be happy to help answer it but I need to know why exactly you want to know about Osteopathic recognition.

It doesn't make "zero sense".. It's not a leap to assume "DO acknowledging" is "Osteopathic recognition", even Google understood what I meant and brought me right to the page by the ACGME that I linked. I apologize for not being very precise. What I was getting at is: If there were to be a hypothetical combination of the USMLE and COMLEX into a single exam - an OMM portion could be required for DO students and therefore would still be an important factor for people considering an "Osteopathic Recognizing" residency program post-merger.

I was just spit-balling a possible idea to make our accreditation more in-line with MDs while still offering the DO-recognition.

 

[jw3600]

There doesn’t need to be DO recognition. Because that’s barely a thing. DOs learn the same **** plus psuedoscience. Cut the pseudoscience and you’re done. Now the same. Badda bing badda boom.

 

[KeikoTanaka]

There doesn’t need to be DO recognition. Because that’s barely a thing. DOs learn the same **** plus psuedoscience. Cut the pseudoscience and you’re done. Now the same. Badda bing badda boom.

I personally like OMM, will I make it a major part of my practice in the future? No, but I'd like to incorporate it some. I like the anatomy and physiology behind it. If you don't believe it or like it, why did you lie on your personal statements to DO schools? Lol, just go to an MD school. Badda bing badda boom. Oh, couldn't get in? Learn OMM or go the Carribean, Canada, or Europe. Badda bing badda boom.

 

[BorntobeDO?]

I personally like OMM, will I make it a major part of my practice in the future? No, but I'd like to incorporate it some. I like the anatomy and physiology behind it. If you don't believe it or like it, why did you lie on your personal statements to DO schools? Lol, just go to an MD school. Badda bing badda boom. Oh, couldn't get in? Learn OMM or go the Carribean, Canada, or Europe. Badda bing badda boom.

Like the anatomy of the moving cranial bones? Or the anatomy of a tender point vs trigger point vs chatmans point?

Wait, I am getting trolled. Well done.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

It doesn't make "zero sense".. It's not a leap to assume "DO acknowledging" is "Osteopathic recognition", even Google understood what I meant and brought me right to the page by the ACGME that I linked. I apologize for not being very precise. What I was getting at is: If there were to be a hypothetical combination of the USMLE and COMLEX into a single exam - an OMM portion could be required for DO students and therefore would still be an important factor for people considering an "Osteopathic Recognizing" residency program post-merger.

I was just spit-balling a possible idea to make our accreditation more in-line with MDs while still offering the DO-recognition.

Lol ok dude. All I did was ask clarification as to what you were wanting to know.

I personally like OMM, will I make it a major part of my practice in the future? No, but I'd like to incorporate it some. I like the anatomy and physiology behind it. If you don't believe it or like it, why did you lie on your personal statements to DO schools? Lol, just go to an MD school. Badda bing badda boom. Oh, couldn't get in? Learn OMM or go the Carribean, Canada, or Europe. Badda bing badda boom.

OMM is a joke. It’s embarassing that we have to learn stuff like cranial and Chapman’s points.

 

[libertyyne]

If you mix apple pie with cow pie it does not make cow pie taste better. It makes apple pie taste worse.

 

[Neopolymath]

Imagine being a resident and writing a note and getting told you forgot your osteopathic structural exam and tart findings. LOL JUST LOL at ever applying to any place that applied for osteopathic recognition. That sounds like a nightmare after you finally graduate and get to begin to develop your *serious* career as a physician.

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

Imagine being a resident and writing a note and getting told you forgot your osteopathic structural exam and tart findings. LOL JUST LOL at ever applying to any place that applied for osteopathic recognition. That sounds like a nightmare after you finally graduate and get to begin to develop your *serious* career as a physician.

To be fair all of ours have it and the OMM involved is pretty minimal outside of the FM program.

 

[Lawpy]

There doesn’t need to be DO recognition. Because that’s barely a thing. DOs learn the same **** plus psuedoscience. Cut the pseudoscience and you’re done. Now the same. Badda bing badda boom.

That would be good but that also means AOA/COCA loses a lot of money and power.

 

[Neopolymath]

Care to take a gander down to the anatomy lab and show a Chapman point? You know, that anatomical nodule and everything. You could easily show it exists, make a video and all.

No? Didn’t think so.

Histo slides too

 

[TheRealCookieMonster]

I personally like OMM, will I make it a major part of my practice in the future? No, but I'd like to incorporate it some. I like the anatomy and physiology behind it. If you don't believe it or like it, why did you lie on your personal statements to DO schools? Lol, just go to an MD school. Badda bing badda boom. Oh, couldn't get in? Learn OMM or go the Carribean, Canada, or Europe. Badda bing badda boom.

I don’t think you live in the same world as the rest of us...
People here on earth don’t go to DO school for the “osteopathy” part... they go for the “doctor” part. Additionally, people here on earth ALL lie, every one of them. They either lie to themselves or others and in some cases both.

 

[ButterButter]

Nothing like an OMM troll to keep things interesting

 

[Goro]

If you mix apple pie with cow pie it does not make cow pie taste better. It makes apple pie taste worse.

That would be good but that also means AOA/COCA loses a lot of money and power.

I don't think that it's losing power and money some much as the True Believers in charge losing their "specialness". You know, that holistic stuff that MDs never do [/s]

I can understand the thinking of people who would want to make Boards P/F, but I dread what would PDs have to find to replace Board scores as screening tools. Preclinical or clinical GPAs wouldn't work for a number of grads as many schools are P/F. Class rank, perhaps?

 

[Espressso]

I just don't see what the end game is here. IMO, the COMLEX exams should be shortened and only administered as a prereq for getting into OMM/NMM residencies. Even following the merger, these ACGME residencies will be open for DO students but the COMLEX score means nothing to them. And the previous AOA residencies will use COMLEX to filter DO students and now accept USMLE scores. It just doesn't quite make sense to me.

If the goal is to standardize MD and DO programs and the residency process, then they should be using one exam. And the DO schools that don't put their students in a good position to do well on USMLE, should do better. My school has been frustrating because they've been advising against taking USMLE. And then when you bring up the merger, they brush it off. They say you have to take COMLEX first, then wait for your passing score, thennnn take USMLE. Like, what? What kind of advice is this?

 

[fldoctorgirl]

My school has been frustrating because they've been advising against taking USMLE.

Our school brought the NBOME president to give a talk, which had required attendance, about how amazing COMLEX was and that we should totally ignore USMLE. He literally was like "what's that other test the MDs take? Uhhh....U...S...something something?". What a joke.

 

[Goro]

Our school brought the NBOME president to give a talk, which had required attendance, about how amazing COMLEX was and that we should totally ignore USMLE. He literally was like "what's that other test the MDs take? Uhhh....U...S...something something?". What a joke.

Saw the same dog and pony show. Gawd, I despise that sonuvabitch.

 

[alprazoslam]

Saw the same dog and pony show. Gawd, I despise that sonuvabitch.

Lol comlex and amazing used in same sentence

 

[alprazoslam]

I just don't see what the end game is here. IMO, the COMLEX exams should be shortened and only administered as a prereq for getting into OMM/NMM residencies. Even following the merger, these ACGME residencies will be open for DO students but the COMLEX score means nothing to them. And the previous AOA residencies will use COMLEX to filter DO students and now accept USMLE scores. It just doesn't quite make sense to me.

If the goal is to standardize MD and DO programs and the residency process, then they should be using one exam. And the DO schools that don't put their students in a good position to do well on USMLE, should do better. My school has been frustrating because they've been advising against taking USMLE. And then when you bring up the merger, they brush it off. They say you have to take COMLEX first, then wait for your passing score, thennnn take USMLE. Like, what? What kind of advice is this?

Goal is it makes them 660 bucks a pop and literally there is no quality control

 

[alprazoslam]

I personally like OMM, will I make it a major part of my practice in the future? No, but I'd like to incorporate it some. I like the anatomy and physiology behind it. If you don't believe it or like it, why did you lie on your personal statements to DO schools? Lol, just go to an MD school. Badda bing badda boom. Oh, couldn't get in? Learn OMM or go the Carribean, Canada, or Europe. Badda bing badda boom.

Please explain the physio behind Chapman’s point nobody at our school over could thanks

 

[Goro]

Please explain the physio behind Chapman’s point nobody at our school over could thanks

Or the microanatomy!

 

[Espressso]

I don't think that it's losing power and money some much as the True Believers in charge losing their "specialness". You know, that holistic stuff that MDs never do [/s]

I can understand the thinking of people who would want to make Boards P/F, but I dread what would PDs have to find to replace Board scores as screening tools. Preclinical or clinical GPAs wouldn't work for a number of grads as many schools are P/F. Class rank, perhaps?

The bold... I say this all the time! It's as if the osteopathic department just crave their relevance. They want to be special in some way/shape/form. No matter the cost. At our school, they taught us extra sacral/pelvis stuff because it's "important for the real world patient.... but this won't ever be tested on boards". Well then, why are we concerned about it? I learned it for the in-house exams and then immediately kicked it out of my head. No space for that. But it's this idea that they need to be special, relevant, important, I really do think it's the Achilles heel of it all.