As a woman...

[phillybabe]

Any women anesthesiology residents have advice for a third-year med student interested in the field? It seems like almost everyone in this forum is XY. Does the same pattern exist in the field as well? I am torn between pathology and anesthesia (patient contact, minimal as it may be, drawing me towards the later). I havent been out in the field of anesthesiologists much, but do you think it will be hard for a petite woman in this field? Dont mean to step on the toes of any women surgeons out there, but most of them are pretty umm...aggressive lets say. Is this true of anesthesia also? Also what kind of skills do you think are especially useful in anesthesia?

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[Gator05]

Great question. I've met a LOT of anesthesiologists who were women! Quite varied in personality, too. They seemed pretty happy with their position for the very reasons you mentioned.

As for agressive surgeons, well, it is a downside...

 

[Offshore]

Apparently, anesthesiology is about 80/20 male/female. This may change significantly since most med school classes for the past 10 years have been 50/50. Some residency programs are more heavily weighted with men. I will not say which ones but you can find out by asking around. Overall, I've met many successful, great female anesthesiologists. The chair at UCLA is a woman for instance. At my hospital, the chief of anesthesiology was a woman. It's an awesome career with so much potential and flexibility. The only thing you might not be able to do is bag a patient without those black straps to get a good seal

 

[CaliGirlDO]

This is a great thread and I'm glad someone brought it up. First realize that this forum is a little skewed from the real world. While it's great to have a forum to talk to fellow colleagues and prospectives, I noticed that during the match especially certain viewpoints seemed to differ a lot on this forum compared to what I encountered out in the 'real' world.

Anyhow, I am a woman (obvious I hope) and I'm only 4'11''. I actually had many of the same concerns that you do not because I'm worried about what I can do, but more because of others' perceptions of me may have impacted being accepted into gas. I don't know how petite you are, but you'll find that whatever your size, you will adapt and find ways to adjust to get the job done. Basically, if there's a will, there is a way. If you can project that attitude to programs, they shouldn't have a problem with your physical appearance in the match process.

I don't know what the exact breakdown of males:females in this field is, but I can tell you that I've noticed many women in the field who are very happy. I also have seen an increasing trend of female medical students applying to the field as I'm sure many of the program directors will tell you.

As for path vs anesthesia...in regard to patient contact...your patient may be asleep but at least they are alive! I have a couple close friends who are pathologists and they get very little patient contact. In their working situations, they're in a lab the whole day and mostly a consultant to other doctors. Their interactions seem to focus around histo/lab techs and talking to other doctors. I'd definitely say anesthesia has more patient contact. And remember, your patient isn't always asleep such as cases where you use regional blocks or OB when you're doing C-sections under spinal blocks. There's also a lot that happens in that pre-op holding area between patients and anesthesiologists, so don't discount this field as having NO patient contact...there is some.

I'd say the one downside for being a petite female in anesthesia is that people will forever be mistaking me for a CRNA (not that anything is wrong with being one). It's just another time when you can't let ego get in the way, but it does suck that I won't be getting the recognition for all those extra years of hard work just based on appearances alone. Just remember the face of anesthesia is definitely changing!

I hope that helps. Feel free to PM me if you have more specific questions.

 

[tahitian3]

Does anyone know of any black anesthesiologists? Any african-american anesthesiology organizations?

 

[IN2BATE]

Come to think of it.......................Ive never seen a black anesthesiologist. Hope you break some ground with that one. But I did meet a black male CRNA rotating last year who was an old timer, and he was great................awesome guy, very smart, well respected.

Being a male, I can say that rotating last year, I was very pleased with my residents in gas who were female. Most of them managed just fine and were pretty cool. Even the petite ones didnt really have trouble.........................they were able to transport patients resembling shamu the whale form holding to OR to recovery just fine. Many attendings are male, and Ive seen some favor/be nicer to female residents than they typically were to males. I guess it depends on how you shake it.

But yeah, I admit I tend to think CRNA at 1st when I see a woman..............sorry

IN2BATE

 

[UTSouthwestern]

Very interesting thread. As a Southwestern resident, I can tell you that all of our female residents are VERY happy with their career choices and one of our two chief residents is female (Wendy Duchenne). If there has been any problems with any of our female residents, I have not heard a single word of it and our their size range is from extremely petite (4'10") to rather large (241 pounds). Southwestern's surgery program residents run the gamut from extremely polite to extreme jerks, but none of our female residents has had any problems with the surgery residents (with one notable exception) and many of our residents hang out with surgery residents.

While I think pathology is an extremely interesting field, it does truly minimize/eliminate any patient contact and that may be appealing to some of us.

There are no black/African-American anesthesiology societies I know of, nor do any of my black attendings or fellow residents know of. You may want to start one in all honesty. There are three black attendings here at Southwestern and I broached that topic and they seem to think it would be a great idea.

 

[apma77]

black societies in anesthesiology or others fields are just a dumb idea..thats like a white society for anesthesiologists!

the blacks need to realize that if they want respect in their career to refrain from building racial divisions such as these societies.

if a white guy had such an idea people would call him racist.

even tho i am not white and of the majority in this country i would never want to have a society of asian anesthesiologists. the whole idea is built on racial divison and does not promote diversity but forms racial divisions!

 

[tahitian3]

Um,
Apma, if you take a look at the previous posts, there ARE no black anesthesiology societies. No one here even KNOWS of any black anesthesiologists. So APPARENTLY the anesthesiology societies up and running are potentially NON-BLACK totally (not one black face)! Do you think that that's DUMB!
Many organizations/societies (medical or not) ARE all white- i.e. Trent Lott's fraternity?- They don't have to LABEL themselves as "White" organizations but in fact they are. What do you think about that?
I don't want to get on a racial issue, as a black person, I'm just interested in people of my heritage that are in the medical profession.
As blacks, WE never set up any racial divides, dear. WE did not come up with Jim Crow, WE do not own any loan company firms/ banks/ car dealerships that CONSISTENTLY deny people of a particular race the opportunity to receive a loan neither have we had class action suites against us for purposely hiking up the APR % whenever a CERTAIN of people seek to buy cars (do you ever but down your textbooks to see what's happening in the news and coporate America?)
Just to let you know, if minorities DO set up organizations with their particular race in their title it is basically for moral support... and encouraging the youth (giving them positive role models of individuals who more than likely went through the same hardships as they did when they were younger).
So please do not insult my race or the struggles that we have gone through in this country!
People hate on Miss Black America pageants, but have you ever thought that before Vanessa Williams of the 1980's NO black woman had EVER held the title? Now who put up similar racial DIVIDES as that? Before BET, when did you EVER really hear the true opinions of African Americans on news shows, etc.?????
It's just really messed up that the whites on this board are ENCOURAGING me to get into the field and even start a black anes group myself, while a MINORITY him/herself is demeaning me and my questions.....
Life is funny ain't it?

 

[tahitian3]

I meant to say that the MISS AMERICA PAGEANT had not seen an african-american winner before Vanessa Williams.

 

[Sandpaper]

Potential downfalls of being a female anesthesiologist: Male surgeons will treat you like a nurse and will try to bully you more than they would a male anesthesiologist, women scrub techs and circulators will be bitchy toward you. But hey, you will be making $200K+ per year, so they can kiss your ass. G'day.

 

[apma77]

Tahiti:
most blacks who attend med school are NOT from the inner cities or underprivilaged. they use to drive the nicest cars at the med school i was at and their parents were very well off financially. these are the people who use to bitch and complain of racial discrimination !!
i am all for giving underprivilaged people a chance in life but not based on their color!
what happened to your ancestors 200 years ago we dont need to pay you back for now!
by the way im not white...and please dont give me the schpiel of how the other races in this country are torturing your "people".
if you want your "people" to get ahead then stop bitching and complaining and donate moey to inner city schools for their future!

 

[tahitian3]

I know that you aren't white, that's the exact reason why I said life is funny that another racial minority is disrespecting me.
I refuse to respond to your anger and lack of knowledge of how blacks are treated in TODAY'S society... centuries AFTER reconstruction.
Your anger seems to be based on jealously more than anything. Money and cars does not make a people "free" per se.

Would anyone ELSE like to engage in more rational, mature, and intellectual discussions about the world of medicine and anesthesiology? I know I would like to... that's the reason why I joined this forum.

Phillybabe, you are not alone. I know that the majority of residency sites I've researched have just a FEW female instructors and administrators. As far as the physical demands, I do believe practice makes perfect. Pushing around equipment and transporting patients will definitely tone your upper body (lol). But soon it will become second nature to you, regardless of your stature. With more women and ethnic minorities entering the field of medicine, I do think that the stereotypical prototype of an anesthesiologist (or physician for that matter) will slowly begin to change.

Any more new opinions out there?

 

[hndrx1a]

Are there any procedures in gas that would be tough to do for a petite women?....intubating morbidly obese pt's,etc?

 

[Tenesma]

1) african-americans in Anesthesia - they are under-represented considering the number of african-americans graduating from medical school --- but the explanation for this during the nineties was that most african-americans usually ended up going into primary care (so that they could return to provide care to their communities) and only now are we seeing a higher penetration rate of african-americans into specialties (more in surgery however than in anesthesia)

2) women in anesthesia: there are more and more women going into anesthesia (one of the most often cited reasons for more women going into anesthesia are the relatively benign hours, plus the very true possibility of being a mother and part-time anesthesiologist - primarily because there is no need to build up a practice, etc...) The team leader for general surgery at my program is a woman, and she is petite, and she does most of the morbidly obese patients: she manages those patients just fine... She works around her height and petite frame by using positioning to her advantage: i have yet to see her struggle. And when you think about it, most of anesthesia is not dependent on brute force (unlike ortho) .... The whole spiel about surgeons and others disrespecting women is for the most part untrue.... It is true that women in medicine in general have a more difficult time with female nurses (usually due to jealousy issues), as well as some programs still have the good ol' boy network problem.... But all the female anesthesia providers i work with, get the respect they deserve, and we should see a lot of these problems get smoothed out over the years, especially as more and more women are graduating from medical school.

my 2 cents,

and please everybody, please remember this is a forum about anesthesia and not racial inequities

 

[phillybabe]

Thank you everyone for your thoughtful comments. I feel very encouraged about the field now. I am doing an away rotation at end of this year to really get a feel for it. Hopeful, it will strengthen my conviction. Some things I learnt researching more into the topic: the divide of residents in anesthesia is still 80:20, with the number of female residents entering anesthesia falling at a rate of 4%. Anyone chose to speculate on reasons for this? Article I got the data from: http://www.asahq.org/Newsletters/2001/08_01/new0801.htm

 

[Tenesma]

i wouldn't go by ASA stuff from 2001 - since it is referencing 1993-1999 material... Since then there has been a dramatic flux in the number of women!!!

 

[OldManDave]

Originally posted by tahitian3
Does anyone know of any black anesthesiologists? Any african-american anesthesiology organizations?

Tahitian,

Hmmmm, to be perfectly honest, I had never really thought about this or paid too much attention to the ethic origin of the anesthesiologists I have worked with. However, not that you mention it, I could agree that there is paucity of African Americans in gas...for that matter, is many other sub-specialties as well. More anecdotally, I recall at the Univ of Rochester, several black attendings in gas & two of them female - one of them happened to be absolutely stunning! According to the other residents, she had been one of the fitness models in one of the Billy Banks/Tai Bo videos...don't know if it was true, but in my opinion, I would not have any trouble seeing why Mr. Banks would want her in his production. More importantly, she was exceptionally nice & well-liked as a colleague & teacher by the residents there.