As an Army Dentist will you be treated like crap for 4 years?

[utahdent123]

Today I went in for my Medical physical and was surprised to find out how much they treat you like a dumba#@ good for nothin. So it really got me thinking as to whether I really wanted to be treated like that for four years after D-school? Is it just the Mepps in Salt Lake that has such dicks running the office or is that the way it will be? They made smartass remarks about me enlisting as a commissioned officer as if I was an idiot. I guess they have no idea what it takes to get into dental school, in order to have that opportunity.

Seriously, not one single person running that place was remotely Civil. I just about withdrew my application and kindly inform them that this wasn't going to work out. Kind of like Dupree did in "You, Me and Dupree" for his job interview at the furniture store.

The thing that threw me off was the fact it was so unexpected. If I was in boot camp and they were like that, then I would be fine with it. But just for a physical? They all walked around with a chip on there shoulders. I for one lost all respect for those a-holes.

Anyone else have a similar experience? Or is it just an anomaly? I can take some sh%t, but not when it's for something like this.

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[MaxAnn]

For my MEPS physical, I was treated similar to the other soon to be soldiers. The only person who had an attitude was one of the nurses or medical administrators. As far as them being overtly rude, they weren't any worse than some of the dental instructors I have had. Seriously, some of the biggest jerks I have ever met had 3-6 initials behind their names and years of college and were socially unrecognizable from any other jerk I have met during my life.

Life in the service will not always be civil, but I wouldn't compare the MEPS to actual life in the Army just as boot camp isn't the same as life after you graduate.

Don't join the military if you have thin skin. I just think about getting my school paid for, getting training, and actually helping some soldiers who would really appreciate it. I would worry about a few pencil pushers at MEPS.

 

[SquidsLife]

Relax dude. It's like that at every MEPS (military exam processing station). Everybody is treated the same. Everybody has to grab their ankles and walk like a duck. It's the enlisted folk first taste of boot camp but it's nothing like the officer experience. It's one of the few chances the enlisted get to yell at future officers so just blow it off, remember their names and faces and get em' back someday when their in your dental chair

 

[kjayquen]

Yep when I had my physical at MEPS before I was enlisted they treated me like an idiot. And when I had my physical for HPSP they treated me like an idiot. The number of people they have coming through there and the number of stupid questions they have to answer day-in and day-out would be the reason for this. I can't imagine having that job everyday. That is not a very reasonable indication of what life in the military as a Medical Professional will be like. I was in the Medical field as enlisted for 6 years and have been in the civilian world as a medical professional for almost as long and my experiences in each are very similar. The only reason I left it behind the first time was because I had very young children and the base hopping was hard on them and my wife. Now that they are older I will definitely take their money and serve with pride. If you take the scholarship enjoy your years in because you may have to put up with a bunch of government crap but you will never have better patients once you get out.

 

[jfitzpat]

I was just recently at the Omaha MEPS and the people there were really nice. After reading about people's experiences on this board, I wasn't looking forward to it all. However, do be ready for looooonnnnnggggg waits.....It was two hours of tests with about six hours of sitting around intermingled throughout (spent two hours in my underwear).

Also, I was with all the enlisted people, so it's not like I got special treatment as an officer candidate.

 

[esclavo]

Today I went in for my Medical physical and was surprised to find out how much they treat you like a dumba#@ good for nothin. So it really got me thinking as to whether I really wanted to be treated like that for four years after D-school? Is it just the Mepps in Salt Lake that has such dicks running the office or is that the way it will be? They made smartass remarks about me enlisting as a commissioned officer as if I was an idiot. I guess they have no idea what it takes to get into dental school, in order to have that opportunity.

Seriously, not one single person running that place was remotely Civil. I just about withdrew my application and kindly inform them that this wasn't going to work out. Kind of like Dupree did in "You, Me and Dupree" for his job interview at the furniture store.

The thing that threw me off was the fact it was so unexpected. If I was in boot camp and they were like that, then I would be fine with it. But just for a physical? They all walked around with a chip on there shoulders. I for one lost all respect for those a-holes.

Anyone else have a similar experience? Or is it just an anomaly? I can take some sh%t, but not when it's for something like this.

my advice is to relax... don't take yourself so seriously. Realize that those poor saps at the meps are mostly enlisted dudes with a very boring "conveyer belt" job that is the same thing over and over. They take their frustration out on the poor unknowing potential people being processed. I actually thought it was funny to see how impatient they were and what a short wick some of them had....then I just started doing a Forest Gump impersonation and that was fun....the only cool ones at the MEPS were the doctors themselves. That will be you in a few years- the "cool doc" Some of them have justifiable anger. When I was processed some of the other people being processed were about as smart as a limp washclothe.... I had one 18 year dude next to me raise his hand and ask the guy taking us through paperwork how to spell his own middle name! The guy in charge said, "what is your name soldier?" The guy said, "Junior". I couldn't believe it. I could understand some of the dumb !@#$$ that those guys have to deal with....the armed forces is a great place a lot of "poor protoplasm"...

 

[Bad Tooth]

Don't just relax! As one who had been there done that physical 4 years ago and I'm experiencing the worst of it now......I can tell you to run like hell!!

I wish I would have listened to the same feelings you are having right now 4 years ago. Because THAT IS A VERY ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF WHAT LIFE IS REALLY LIKE! I am not kidding.

And all that crap that these other guys are saying about "oh they're just enlisted guys and this is their chance to treat an 'officer' like crap" don't believe it. I still get treated like crap from enlisted folk. They are in positions in the military where they are like office managers. So even though you outrank them.......they still tell you what to do because they have been put in charge of the clinic and thus in charge of you.

The other posts in this thread all sound like recruiters (liars). Don't listen, anyone that says "the armed forces is a great place a lot of "poor protoplasm"..." has a hidden agenda. This is not a great place.

Don't do it.........I'm serious.

 

[jfitzpat]

Don't just relax! As one who had been there done that physical 4 years ago and I'm experiencing the worst of it now......I can tell you to run like hell!!

I wish I would have listened to the same feelings you are having right now 4 years ago. Because THAT IS A VERY ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF WHAT LIFE IS REALLY LIKE! I am not kidding.

And all that crap that these other guys are saying about "oh they're just enlisted guys and this is their chance to treat an 'officer' like crap" don't believe it. I still get treated like crap from enlisted folk. They are in positions in the military where they are like office managers. So even though you outrank them.......they still tell you what to do because they have been put in charge of the clinic and thus in charge of you.

The other posts in this thread all sound like recruiters (liars). Don't listen, anyone that says "the armed forces is a great place a lot of "poor protoplasm"..." has a hidden agenda. This is not a great place.

Don't do it.........I'm serious.

You have alot of gall to call us liars on your very first post.

 

[Bad Tooth]

Read the post more closely, you'll see who I was referring to:

Recruiters are liars........you take offense, are you a recruiter?

 

[jfitzpat]

The other posts in this thread all sound like recruiters (liars). Don't listen, anyone that says "the armed forces is a great place a lot of "poor protoplasm"..." has a hidden agenda. This is not a great place.

Don't do it.........I'm serious.

I don't think I misread you at all. You may or may not have good reason to feel the way you do, but why should anyone trust you when you have one post and summarily dismiss the comments of multiple people who have hundreds of posts and who have provided reliable information in the past.

For instance, you imply that Esclavo has some hidden agenda. I suppose the story he has been telling for the last two years has been just laying the groundwork for his real agenda (bamboozling kids into taking HPSP).

If you want to be taken seriously, give us more than just vague generalities. What service are you in? Did you just start your payback or are you deep into it? What makes you hate it so much (other than being ordered around by enlisted people)? That is the type of stuff I'm looking for because if you read my previous posts, I don't know about what its like. I'm just thinking about taking the scholarship and am always willing to listen to people's experiences.

 

[Bad Tooth]

You are absolutely right, I did not qualify any of the information that I put out there. It is a long story and I did not feel like writing a book on my first post. I was very surprised to hear that most of the responses in this thread were positive for Army dentitstry. I am on a post where 7 new dentists (including myself) came on active duty last year. All of us are having a negative experience. The general consensus among us is that if we could do it again, we would not do this......$$$$$ or not.

I am on the front end of my payback (graduated last year). There are so many things that the recruiters don't tell you. And I also want you to know that I may be shooting myself in the foot, because you may someday be the replacement that I need so I won't get called up from inactive reserve. Has your recruiter told you about that yet? All commitments (HPSP contracts) are for 8 years. 3 or 4 years active and then 5 or 4 years of some kind of reserve. So when I am done with my 3 years I still have to worry that the Army may someday have a need to call me back perhaps due to a shortage of providers (which is here already).

I have read posts of people saying things like 'oh you see 2-3 pts. in the morning and 2-3 pts. in the afternoon, and if you feel like it you go get a sick call pt.' Which is totally false! You see you need to understand the military's system of classification 1-4. 1 being a dentally healthy individual no tx needed, 2 needs routine work, 3 is non-deployable and has dental needs that are likely to cause the pt problems within one year, and 4=dental status unknown.
Guess how long an exam is good for? 13 months. So when a soldier is deployed for 12 months (now 15.....another good reason to join!) his exam has expired and he becomes class 4. So guess what he needs.....an exam. And guess how many soldiers are deploying/returning home......thousands! The point being that we have "exam days" where all we do is exams. A new pt is in your chair every 10 minutes. And it turns out to be around 40 patients for one day. I'll admit it doesn't sound that bad but it gets old very quickly. And it is difficult for every one in the clinic. xray gets overloaded, front desk, assistants, etc. Does that sound like a way to care for the pt? Or does it sound more like an assembly line?

Have you asked your recruiter about deployment possibilities? Mine told me that 'you really won't have to worry about being deployed unless you "request to be assigned to a unit."' The first day in OBC they told us "everyone in this room (docs/dentists) needs to plan on being deployed." So how does a 15 month deployment sound? Got a family?

What about the promises made by recruiters that you will be able to practice with all of the latest technology and with no concern for what the pt is able to pay for? You will never have to compromise a tx plan because of $$$$. Well how do you think it affects the tx plan when the pt is leaving in 2 months? In some ways restrictions on time is worse than money. You bet that affects the tx of that pt. Do you think that military dentists have to compromise on tx plans? Yep, soldiers are deploying all the time which need extensive treatment and you don't have the time to do what's best, just what will last for 1 year. And in one year they are back in the dental chair with another re-deployment date and the same dental needs.

Like you said, you are willing to listen to others' experiences, and you should. I wish I would have met someone like me when I was in your shoes. I relied heavily on my recruiter because I didn't know anyone else. I am not trying to paint a negative picture, just an honest one. I met other dentists while at OBC and have kept in touch with them over the past year. And I can say that their experience so far has been similar to mine. So this is not just a "rogue post" in the Army.

I will add more later.....

BTW, I was not calling you a liar, just recruiters. Just so we're clear on that.

 

[jfitzpat]

Thanks for the reply. I think you just happened to stumble onto a rare positive thread. If you look around some more, you will find an overwhelming negative vibe about military healthcare. There are some guys in the military medicine thread that have made it their personal crusade to talk people out of HPSP.

That being said, I'm in a pretty tough spot because I already have 150k in debt (I'm a reformed lawyer) and am attending an expensive private dental school. I think that 500k is simply to much cash to dig myself out of following graduation. I never considered the Army because of the deployment lengths and have pretty much ruled out the Navy because of they also have a pretty high optempo. I'll probably do the Air Force because of their restricted deployment schedule. Any additional advice you might have would be most appreciated.

Thanks again for the reply. Sorry that we got off on the wrong foot. I hope that your experience gets a little better as your payback goes on.

 

[jmill0]

It still surprises me to hear from those that believe because they are now a dentist, they should be treated like royalty. It also surprises me to hear that those who join the military have a hard time understanding they're in the MILITARY and that there's a possibility they night have to leave Mommy and Daddy and go somewhere. Get real! When you sign up, you KNOW there's a possibility of having to do SOMETHING war-like during your obligation.....

Why is the solution always to join the Air Force? What a wuss answer to everything.

If you can't handle being in the military, then don't do it. If you're already in it, grow a pair and get through it. Deep down you knew what you were getting into.

If you go into the military thinking it's going to suck for three or four years.... it's going to suck for three or four years. If you go into it looking for opportunites to learn so you're a better dentist when you get out, you'll be a better dentist when you get out.

JKM

 

[jfitzpat]

Where do you get off judging me? I am joining the Air Force because they limit deployments and I have a wife and kid to think about. Where did I say that I was afraid to do something warlike? Where did I say that I was afraid to deploy? Making the best selection for my family doesn't make me a "wuss" as you would call it.

I can't stand guys like you who think that because I don't want to stomp around Iraq killing insurgents for four years that I can't be a patriot who wants to help serve my country in the military. I have a family to think about in additon to everything and they are important to me. So don't come here telling me to get a pair when you know nothing about me or my situation.

 

[jmill0]

Didn't mean to offend. I just can't stand the guys who look to the military to do what's easiest.
"I can't do the Army, because they might deploy me."
"I can't do the Navy because they might put me on a ship for 6 months."

I've read those above statements more times than I can count on these forums. They all say "I'm just gonna join the Air Force!" It's not because the have the best opportunities or because best pay or best whatever.... It IS so those who join can do the least possible as a military officer as possible. If someone truly wants to join the Air Force because they want to wear the blues, then great! Thank you for serving our country! If you join because you don't want to be on a ship or possibly on the ground somewhere with our troops, then I say grow a pair! Don't join because it's not another branch. Give me a break!

People who bring families as an excuse into this shouldn't be joining the military to begin with. I was married with kids while serving. Who likes leaving a family behind to serve? Fortunately I was never deployed more than a month, but I (we) was ready if I had to be.

By the way, my original statement wasn't geared for those who haven't signed, but rather those who have signed and now don't want to follow through with their end of the agreement.

JKM

 

[jfitzpat]

I agree with the core of what you are saying, but I also think that the impact on your family can be a part of the decision matrix. I admit that a large part of my doing HPSP is for the money, but I almost went Navy JAG after law school and they don't offer you any incentive to join. I would be proud to be a part of the armed forces, but I also don't want to deploy for large amounts of time. I will certainly do so without complaint (I know what I'm getting into) if the need arises, but I will also avoid the army and navy so that I don't put myself in a position to regret my decision.

If I were single, I'd join the Navy in a heartbeat. They've got better stations, more opportunities to go abroad and see cool places and both my father and grandfather were enlisted Navy during Vietnam and World War II. However, since my kid (eventually kids) is young, I also want to be there for her and not miss as much as two or three years of her life. I guess something about this thread makes me grumpy because I don't usually tee off on people and I've now done it twice on this thread....sorry about that.

 

[jfitzpat]

As a side note, I think its funny that my Air Force recruiter is great. He's always giving me updates and returns my calls the same day. I can't get my Navy recruiter to give me the time of day. You'd think the shortfall was the other way around.

 

[SquidsLife]

Don't just relax! As one who had been there done that physical 4 years ago and I'm experiencing the worst of it now......I can tell you to run like hell!!

I wish I would have listened to the same feelings you are having right now 4 years ago. Because THAT IS A VERY ACCURATE REPRESENTATION OF WHAT LIFE IS REALLY LIKE! I am not kidding.

And all that crap that these other guys are saying about "oh they're just enlisted guys and this is their chance to treat an 'officer' like crap" don't believe it. I still get treated like crap from enlisted folk. They are in positions in the military where they are like office managers. So even though you outrank them.......they still tell you what to do because they have been put in charge of the clinic and thus in charge of you.

The other posts in this thread all sound like recruiters (liars). Don't listen, anyone that says "the armed forces is a great place a lot of "poor protoplasm"..." has a hidden agenda. This is not a great place.

Don't do it.........I'm serious.

I actually have noticed the disrespect the enlisted have for officers in the Army...no salutes, cursing, etc...I'll never understand why this is but I guess it's an Army thing. I've had this happen a few times to me but the disrespect was easily corrected via verbal reprimand....they have to know they are NOT allowed to treat an officer with any form of disrespect or insubordinate behavior (UCMJ articles 77 -134)

All the armed forces health clinics have enlisted as "office managers". They're meant to keep the flow of patients coming in. I personally have never had a problem with a Navy enlisted person "telling me what to do" for the simple reason that they can't (a simple UCMJ violation for disrespecting an officer and a counseling chit always tends to correct this uncommon behavior unless they feel the need to go to DRB and having their paycheck reduced). If I need to make a change in the schedule for some reason then I have them do it....the only individuals in the clinic who can tell me what to do are my senior officers.

Definately sounds like the Army sucks and exactly the reason why I didn't go Army.

Go Navy!

 

[Bad Tooth]

It still surprises me to hear from those that believe because they are now a dentist, they should be treated like royalty. It also surprises me to hear that those who join the military have a hard time understanding they're in the MILITARY and that there's a possibility they night have to leave Mommy and Daddy and go somewhere. Get real! When you sign up, you KNOW there's a possibility of having to do SOMETHING war-like during your obligation.....

Why is the solution always to join the Air Force? What a wuss answer to everything.

If you can't handle being in the military, then don't do it. If you're already in it, grow a pair and get through it. Deep down you knew what you were getting into.

If you go into the military thinking it's going to suck for three or four years.... it's going to suck for three or four years. If you go into it looking for opportunites to learn so you're a better dentist when you get out, you'll be a better dentist when you get out.

JKM

HOOOOOAH!!! Licensed to Drill!!! Good to see the Army showed up to correct us all! Yes, we all want to be treated like royalty because we are dentists. And yes, anyone that has a beef with deployment deep down just doesn't want to leave mommy and daddy. Thanks for clearing that up......HOOOAH!

It's people like you that make this whole Army dentistry thing worth while. When you are told by someone who you consider to be a reliable source that you will not deploy unless you volunteer, and the opposite is true........people tend to have a problem with that.

There is nothing I can do about it now except "grow a pair" and get on with it. And I know that. BUT I can educate people about what Army life is really like. Then they will at least get an honest picture and will be able to make an educated decision regarding their future based on facts, not lies.

jmill0, are you honest about this when people ask you?

"By the way, my original statement wasn't geared for those who haven't signed, but rather those who have signed and now don't want to follow through with their end of the agreement." Can you blame people for feeling this way when the contract they sign is based on a set of lies? That coupled with the fact that there is no way out makes for a pretty good deal, doesn't it?

Let me make one correction to your last statement:
"If you go into the military thinking it's going to suck for three or four years.... it's going to suck for three or four years. If you go into it looking for opportunites to learn so you're a better dentist when you get out"......it's going to suck for three or four years.

 

[Bad Tooth]

Thanks for the reply. I think you just happened to stumble onto a rare positive thread. If you look around some more, you will find an overwhelming negative vibe about military healthcare. There are some guys in the military medicine thread that have made it their personal crusade to talk people out of HPSP.

That being said, I'm in a pretty tough spot because I already have 150k in debt (I'm a reformed lawyer) and am attending an expensive private dental school. I think that 500k is simply to much cash to dig myself out of following graduation. I never considered the Army because of the deployment lengths and have pretty much ruled out the Navy because of they also have a pretty high optempo. I'll probably do the Air Force because of their restricted deployment schedule. Any additional advice you might have would be most appreciated.

Thanks again for the reply. Sorry that we got off on the wrong foot. I hope that your experience gets a little better as your payback goes on.

Yeah, that is a tight spot. I now say that the money shouldn't be an issue but.......there's a certain point. I'd admit you might be there. Not for the Army/Navy, but Air Force......

I know that just about all of the dentists in this DENTAC wish they were in the Air Force. And no "license to Drill" it is not because we are a bunch of "wusses." That whole attitude is pittiful. How many dentists join the military because they want to be "soldiers?" Or as you say be "military officers?" Not very many! Your "military officer" argument doesn't hold water. Did you join to be a military officer? And did the Army hire you to be a military officer? NO! They hired you to be a DENTIST! So yes, the whole idea is to do as little military officer as possible and to do as much dentistry as possible.

According to you the best place to "do the least possible as a military officer as possible" is the Air Force.

To me it sounds like the best place to practice DENTISTRY (because that's what we want to do) is the Air Force! But I guess that just makes us "wusses" for wanting to do what we spent the last 4 years preparing to do.

Just "grow a pair" if you don't want to be on the "ground" or on a "ship." That is such good advice for this discussion, thank you.

 

[jmill0]

I'm sorry your experience has been terrible. It is obvious you made a bad decision to join. I don't buy the excuse that you only go if you volunteer is what they told me.

I know I was told it was unlikely I would deploy, but that it was a possibility. This is before 9/11. Nothing to mention of going on in Afghanistan or Iraq at the time. I figured I was screwed while I was already IN during 9/11.... but I knew what I had signed on for.

Hopefully anyone who is in touch with reality and can see your nightly news or can read a newspaper knows that the world has changed and certainly where the military is deployed has changed since 9/11. All of the "newbies" in the service signed after 9/11.

I have yet to see any branch issue a contract that states you will not be deployed. Correct me if I'm wrong please....

If you're assigned to a DENTAC, I really don't know what you're complaining about. If I remember right, you DO dentistry 98% of the time anyways... Are you upset that they call you in for a piss test at 6am?

I joined to have my school paid for, do dentistry and be in the military (in that order). I didn't want to deploy. I didn't want to be assigned to a brigade slot. I didn't want the Army to tell me I was going to be gone for a year. But I put on the BDUs every day. I knew it was a possibility. Read any if my posts from the last few years and it will say the same thing. I'm not here to bullsh*t anyone about what happens in the service. I'll be happy to tell anyone what I can about being in the Army, DENTAC, a division slot, deploying. Been there, done that (fortunately only deployed for training for a month though).

No one is drafted. No one is forced to join any branch. If you make that choice though, be prepared for what could happen.

Is everyone looking for some sort of free ride? "I'll have the military pay me to go to school, pay for my tuition and all my supplies and stuff. Don't worry though, my recruiter said I won't have to do anything except some PT three times a week". If this is what people truly believe, they should have done some more research.

It's unfortunate that some posts/bases have poor leadership in their dental units that allow disrespect of officers by the enlisted NCOs. I never had that happen to me so it is hard to relate. Had some jerks for COs though and I just smiled and said "Yes, sir!"

Maybe it's changed since I left..... which is higher? O-3 pay? or the special Dental Pay? I think I was paid more to be a Captain. As I said... maybe it's changed.........

Although I only spent three years in the service, I took a lot away from my experience there. Learned a lot from the specialists and I know it made me an all-around better dentist by being there. I also figured out pretty quickly that dental school doesn't teach you ****.

The military is not for everyone. I've told that to every person I've talked to on here. Heck, I did my three years and got out. 20 years wasn't worth it for me. I never once during my time in complained that I had to do 10% Army stuff mixed in with the 90% dental stuff I was doing though.

Badtooth- I hope that you can find some positive things about your time in the service when all is said and done... even if it's just the people you serve with. I still stay in touch with half of my AEGD class. Some of the officers in my medical company too. They're good guys and I'm glad to have met them.

JKM

 

[Bad Tooth]

"If this is what people truly believe, they should have done some more research."
You are absolutely right on this one. Although how do you know when you've done enough research? I thought I had. I guess the one lesson that I learned and want to pass along is: Don't trust your recruiter. There are others out there that already know that, I didn't.

You mentioned the stellar CO's that you had, the whole "commander" thing is a new concept to all that come into the military for the first time. I am convinced that this man has more control over my life than anyone ever has. A commander is like having your boss, dad, and spiritual leader rolled into one. And a man that has that much control over your life and day to day routine better be cool, because if he isn't....... Another lesson that I wish I had known before I signed. I want people to know about those things, because I didn't. And as you say you should just smile and say "yes sir." I want people to know that there is the possibility that you can be stationed at a post under a commander who is a complete a##hole for 3 years of your life. Makes just smiling and saying "yes sir" a little more difficult. And that's the point because there is no way to change things. You have to smile and say "yes sir."

I am also clear on the fact that no branches make a contract that guarantees you will not deploy. I knew it was a possibility when I signed. What I didn't think when I signed was that it would be so definite (which it almost is).

You know, it's like informed consent. When you tell a pt. ahead of time it's called informed consent; when you tell a pt. after the procedure is done it's called an excuse. Had I been well informed, I might have still signed, but I would not be having such a negative experience because I would expect it. Then again maybe I wouldn't have signed.........that's why they omit all the details.

I'm with you though, I too hope that I can find some more positive things when it's all said and done.

 

[MaxAnn]

Having been in the Army previously, I can see this from both sides. There is some truth in bad tooth's depictions and jk's responses. It sounds like bad tooth is dealing with prototype alpha males or alpha a$$holes as I called them. All the branches are filled with these types, but the Army probably has more of them because it is the largest service and of course, has the most soldiers.

Also, given the state of world affairs, the Army is significantly more stressed than all the other branches combined. It is literally the Army and Marine's war. The latter is not as stressed because the Marines albeit first to go in is a division of the Navy and has less soldiers to deal with and serve.

Squids life caricature of the Navy is worth noting: the mentality of a sailor is simply different than that of a soldier and an airmen. That is why soldiers who take the bonus money (leap before looking) and move to other branches struggle so much. The services are different and different things are stressed in one branch are not as important to the mission of the other branches.

Squid is Navy and probably should be pro Navy or else it would be time for him to look for another career option.

At any rate, I think bad tooth should realize that his experience and expectations of life in the Army were not realistic more so because he probably had no prior service or prior experience with Army life.

Someone who was in the Army before HPSP would have doubetdly felt different before and after HPSP and thus their reaction to it, would be less negative.

Bad Tooth just realize you have made a mistake, and make the most of your remaining time. Take it from someone who knows, the Army isn't smart, but it isn't stupid either, nor is it going to change anytime soon. Beauracracies never do. Take care of yourself.

 

[Bad Tooth]

MaxAnn is right. It would not be so negative if I had prior service.
(BTW are you HPSP?)
I also want to point out that right now I feel like I have made a mistake, but I will be the first to admit that the jury is still out on that. Ask me in 2.5 yrs if I have made a mistake......

I wish I could better explain all of the crazy things that I see from day to day in the Army. I think a part of it is the leadership that I deal with is poor, and that can change depending on where you go. But the Army itself as an organization has it's own problems. I see so many things that just plain don't work! Problems with everything from getting paid to health insurance for your family.

Here's one for you: I am a dentist. I work in a dental office. The Army does not see "dependants" for dental needs. Which is fine, right? I mean the Army will pay my family's dental insurance so they can go elsewhere.....(because they pay medical)....WRONG!! As a dentist I have to pay for dental insurance for my family. Personally I think that's crazy. When my kids need their first exam, etc. I have to send them to someone else for TX. Which also brings up another point about Army dentistry: pedo is non-existant. Yeah, I'll be wonderfully prepared to treat kids when I get out.

MaxAnn, what do you mean by ".........the Army is smart, and it isn't stupid....."? I would disagree, but I'd like to know why you think that.

 

[MaxAnn]

Saying the Army isn't smart, but it isn't stupid (I misspelled in the previous post) was something a sergeant of mine used to throw around whenever we were doing things that didn't seem to make sense at the time. This did happen frequently in the Army.

I am not trying to generalize here or marginalize your complaints since I do believe them to be legitimate. I am just trying to help you get a hold of all the Army encompasses. It is just so much that goes on.... It can be mind boggling.

At the same time, there are things that clearly could be corrected, but no one seems to do it. Dental school is a lot like that some times.

Really, the only solice I have is that one day I will own and run my own practice and fashion it in the way I see fit, which was the main thing that steered me toward dentistry in the first-place.

It is somewhat ridiculous that you have to pay for dental insurance for your family, but after your time in the Army is up, you will be in a much better position. Try to learn as much as you can dentistry wise so that you are much more focused when you leave the service. You just owe the Army some time, not a lifetime of allegiance.

There are thousands of soldiers that leave the service every year in total disgust of all the branches and quickly denounce the stupidity they have seen while in uniform; just turn on Fox or CNN; they are bound to show up or just search the web.

Hang in there and take care of yourself so that you can be there for your family once your obligation is complete. Really, I worry the most about all the amputees returning from war and the disgusting way they are treated. I doubt any dentist or physician will ever return home that way.

 

[Bad Tooth]

Thanks MaxAnn, you have a good positive attitude.

Are you HPSP?

 

[MaxAnn]

Still debating...

Right now, it is a three horse race:

A) Army HPSP or Reserves

B) ANG

c) Navy Reserve

I am in dental school now, so I am not counting on too much from hpsp. I was in the Army reserves previously. I do empathize with you. I know the military, the Army in particular, has a rough lifestyle at times. You are not the first person to feel this way. I know some officers that were in the Army for over 15 years and go out to seek a better lifestyle in either another branch or out of the military altogether.

Just FYI: The Army is currently having difficulty keeping junior officers nowadays, and I suspect some of the reasons you are mentioning are a part of the problem. A relative of mine just graduated from OBC in Fort Benning.

 

[MaxAnn]

As a side note, I think its funny that my Air Force recruiter is great. He's always giving me updates and returns my calls the same day. I can't get my Navy recruiter to give me the time of day. You'd think the shortfall was the other way around.

It's funny you would mention this because for me it was the other way around. The Army guy was complacent at times, but had his moments. The Air Force guy was good, but the Navy guy was excellent. He was by far and away the best and most productive recruiter I have ever come across.

Despite these glowing accolades, there is one thing that we should all remember though: Recruiters are not always representative of their respective services. They should be, but aren't always.

I have met guys and gals who had great experiences with recruiters and went on to absolutely hate their experiences in the service. At the same time, there are those who have had luke warm to heated exchanges with recruiters and then go on to have great careers.

Like dental school, you must choose the service that best suits your goals, personality type, and etc...

Don't just go with the school who accepts you first or the service who is the first to call. The person who smiles at you might not be presenting the most realistic picture and could be misleading you. Another recruiter could be a jerk and also be holding the key to start of a great career you might not have otherwise known.

 

[jfitzpat]

It's funny you would mention this because for me it was the other way around. The Army guy was complacent at times, but had his moments. The Air Force guy was good, but the Navy guy was excellent. He was by far and away the best and most productive recruiter I have ever come across.

Despite these glowing accolades, there is one thing that we should all remember though: Recruiters are not always representative of their respective services. They should be, but aren't always.

I have met guys and gals who had great experiences with recruiters and went on to absolutely hate their experiences in the service. At the same time, there are those who have had luke warm to heated exchanges with recruiters and then go on to have great careers.

Like dental school, you must choose the service that best suits your goals, personality type, and etc...

Don't just go with the school who accepts you first or the service who is the first to call. The person who smiles at you might not be presenting the most realistic picture and could be misleading you. Another recruiter could be a jerk and also be holding the key to start of a great career you might not have otherwise known.

I totally agree. However, my recruiter is doing a terrible disservice to the Navy. I have sent about four emails and called a couple of times and he has never responded. I wonder how many other people are lost because of lax recruiting like this. Also, the guy's a Lt. Commander, so he should know better.