As an Army Dentist will you be treated like crap for 4 years?

[utahdent123]

I posted this in the Military Dentistry forum, but not a lot of people are in there. Anyone else experience this while applying for HPSP?

Today I went in for my Medical physical and was surprised to find out how much they treat you like a dumba#@ good for nothin. So it really got me thinking as to whether I really wanted to be treated like that for four years after D-school? Is it just the Meps in Salt Lake that has such dicks running the office or is that the way it will be? They made smartass remarks about me enlisting as a commissioned officer as if I was an idiot. I guess they have no idea what it takes to get into dental school, in order to have that opportunity.

Seriously, not one single person running that place was remotely Civil. I just about withdrew my application and kindly inform them that this wasn't going to work out. Kind of like Dupree did in "You, Me and Dupree" for his job interview at the furniture store.

The thing that threw me off was the fact it was so unexpected. If I was in boot camp and they were like that, then I would be fine with it. But just for a physical? They all walked around with a chip on there shoulders. I for one lost all respect for those a-holes.

Anyone else have a similar experience? Or is it just an anomaly? I can take some sh%t, but not when it's for something like this.

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[shamrock2006]

the physicals...the military training...they will treat you like ****. There's no exception. But when you're out as a practicing dentist...you will not be treated as such. Basically..w/ the training and physicals, etc...the idea is to break you down then build you up...after that, you wont have anyone in your face ever again (to my knowledge).

 

[IcemanDDS]

the physicals...the military training...they will treat you like ****. There's no exception. But when you're out as a practicing dentist...you will not be treated as such. Basically..w/ the training and physicals, etc...the idea is to break you down then build you up...after that, you wont have anyone in your face ever again (to my knowledge).

This is not entirely true. A couple of recruiters from army came to my career seminar to talk about the HPSP. They said since you have your college degree, and have gotten into dental school, you will not be treated like crap. Basically, college was your basic training. The whole point of basic training is to teach discipline to people who either just graduated high school or dropped out etc. If you have completed college and gained admission to d-school, you obviously have plenty of discipline and are goal oriented, focused and all. You will be treated well I believe when you graduate d-school and begin practicing in the army. Your rank is captain at that point, and you never have to go through boot camp and all that. This is from the horses mouth. Keep in mind though, it is the army

 

[shamrock2006]

This is not entirely true. A couple of recruiters from army came to my career seminar to talk about the HPSP. They said since you have your college degree, and have gotten into dental school, you will not be treated like crap. Basically, college was your basic training. The whole point of basic training is to teach discipline to people who either just graduated high school or dropped out etc. If you have completed college and gained admission to d-school, you obviously have plenty of discipline and are goal oriented, focused and all. You will be treated well I believe when you graduate d-school and begin practicing in the army. Your rank is captain at that point, and you never have to go through boot camp and all that. This is from the horses mouth. Keep in mind though, it is the army

I was only referring to the training part. Sorry for the confusion. I just meant that while ur doing ur military training...you'll get yelled at and singled out...at least initially. I got that directly from someone who went through it. It's just the military way. But after a couple weeks of trainig..they lighten up, and when ur practicing for them...they wont be treating you like scum.

 

[aphistis]

the physicals...the military training...they will treat you like ****. There's no exception. But when you're out as a practicing dentist...you will not be treated as such. Basically..w/ the training and physicals, etc...the idea is to break you down then build you up...after that, you wont have anyone in your face ever again (to my knowledge).

This is completely incorrect. Please don't listen to it. I got this information from, well, me. I'm in the military.

Officer training for military health professionals is nothing like we've all seen in Full Metal Jacket and the like. I'm not going to get into a detailed breakdown of the ins and outs of military dentistry, but you're not going to spend your days getting screamed at by drill sergeants. You're a dentist, even in the Army, and for the amount of money it costs them to keep you on the payroll, they're going to keep you doing dentistry, not rolling around in the mud like the grunts.

 

[shamrock2006]

This is completely incorrect. Please don't listen to it. I got this information from, well, me. I'm in the military.

Officer training for military health professionals is nothing like we've all seen in Full Metal Jacket and the like. I'm not going to get into a detailed breakdown of the ins and outs of military dentistry, but you're not going to spend your days getting screamed at by drill sergeants. You're a dentist, even in the Army, and for the amount of money it costs them to keep you on the payroll, they're going to keep you doing dentistry, not rolling around in the mud like the grunts.

Ok...people...i'm talking about the TRAINING part. I have friends enlisted, and officers in all branches of the military..all have said the same thing. you're going to get yelled at while ur in training...no its not going to be like Boot camp. But they will get in your face from time to time...it's part of the routine...whether you go army, navy, air force. I know when you're a dentist nobody is going to yell at you, or make you go cave diving in some god awful desert...that'd be just stupid. when you're doing ur physical training..they'll will get loud at times. It's just the way it is. This comes from the mouths of about 10 people.

 

[jim85213]

The only difference between basic and OCS is that they say sir after yelling at you.

 

[aphistis]

Ok...people...i'm talking about the TRAINING part. I have friends enlisted, and officers in all branches of the military..all have said the same thing. you're going to get yelled at while ur in training...no its not going to be like Boot camp. But they will get in your face from time to time...it's part of the routine...whether you go army, navy, air force. I know when you're a dentist nobody is going to yell at you, or make you go cave diving in some god awful desert...that'd be just stupid. when you're doing ur physical training..they'll will get loud at times. It's just the way it is. This comes from the mouths of about 10 people.

The only problem is that none of those mouths is yours.

To the OP: No. MEPS staff are generally overworked and stressed out. It's a tough job, and they're used to spending most of their time dealing with new recruits. Daily life in the military isn't anything like what you experienced at your MEPS physical.

 

[aphistis]

The only difference between basic and OCS is that they say sir after yelling at you.

OCS (officer candidate school) is one of the conventional ways of becoming a military officer. And, just like with the other poster, your friend's friend's friend's horror stories about going through OCS don't apply here anyway, because doctors and dentists don't go through it. They do OBC (officer basic course), which is a different animal entirely and not even remotely similar to OCS.

 

[jim85213]

OCS (officer candidate school) is one of the conventional ways of becoming a military officer. And, just like with the other poster, doctors and dentists don't do OCS. They do OBC (officer basic course), which is a different animal entirely and not even remotely similar to OCS.

Sorry.....I was just trying to be funny.

 

[IcemanDDS]

Thanks Bill. We're comparing apples to oranges. Enlisted basic training FAR from dental officer training. Health care officers are highly regarded in the armed forces. Especially dentists... when they go to prep that tooth, they may not use *as much* anesthetic on that guy who treated them badly in the past

 

[jim85213]

Again...I was just trying to be funny. Sorry I switched OBC with OCS. Man, rough crowd.

 

[IcemanDDS]

Again...I was just trying to be funny. Sorry I switched OBC with OCS. Man, rough crowd.

Its all good! We're all just stressed out from either trying to get in school or going through school. I am at least...

 

[jim85213]

Its all good! We're all just stressed out from either trying to get in school or going through school. I am at least...

I hear that.

 

[jim85213]

To the OP...I work in the corporate world and people are condescending and rude to me almost everyday. It's just a fact of life I guess. I hate it when people treat me that way...especially when it is unprovoked. You'll never see those folks again so just keep your head up and remember that your entire experience in the military probably won't be that way. I commend your desire and decision to serve our country. I would be joining the Army Dental Corp too but I can't because of health reasons.

 

[Lidopaine82]

I posted this in the Military Dentistry forum, but not a lot of people are in there. Anyone else experience this while applying for HPSP?

Today I went in for my Medical physical and was surprised to find out how much they treat you like a dumba#@ good for nothin. So it really got me thinking as to whether I really wanted to be treated like that for four years after D-school? Is it just the Mepps in Salt Lake that has such dicks running the office or is that the way it will be? They made smartass remarks about me enlisting as a commissioned officer as if I was an idiot. I guess they have no idea what it takes to get into dental school, in order to have that opportunity.

Seriously, not one single person running that place was remotely Civil. I just about withdrew my application and kindly inform them that this wasn't going to work out. Kind of like Dupree did in "You, Me and Dupree" for his job interview at the furniture store.

The thing that threw me off was the fact it was so unexpected. If I was in boot camp and they were like that, then I would be fine with it. But just for a physical? They all walked around with a chip on there shoulders. I for one lost all respect for those a-holes.

Anyone else have a similar experience? Or is it just an anomaly? I can take some sh%t, but not when it's for something like this.

back before i got commissioned and i was enlisted, i would see officers who came into the army as an officer. so they didn't know what it as like to go through basic training, and they didn't know what it was like to be **** on all the time. they have it pretty easy. thats why im glad i was enlisted for 6 and a half years before i got commissioned, i paid my dues and now as an officer i have it pretty easy.

 

[utahdent123]

Thanks for all of your responses. I'm glad to hear that the four years won't be hell.

 

[Ukti]

I just had my army Physical today and I have to agree with utahdent, it has by far been the worst experience of my life, ppl were simply rude, disrespectful. What concerned me the most was that there were no female doctors either, which is odd becuz the army is the biggest service; and upon asking i was told that there was only one civilian male doctor on site, like they don't have the money to hire a female doctor!! and Oh yea! so 'we send in a female nurse with the doctor', like thats supposed to make it okay?
It's like my bad we’ll send in two random ppl instead of one and watch u jump around..!! it was frustrating, I myself am most probably going to withdraw my application. I will not recommend this to anyone.

Thanks for all of your responses. I'm glad to hear that the four years won't be hell.

 

[Ukti]

I just had my army Physical today and I have to agree with utahdent, it has by far been the worst experience of my life, ppl were simply rude, disrespectful. What concerned me the most was that there were no female doctors either, which is odd becuz the army is the biggest service; and upon asking i was told that there was only one civilian male doctor on site, like they don't have the money to hire a female doctor!! and Oh yea! so 'we send in a female nurse with the doctor', like thats supposed to make it okay?
It's like my bad we’ll send in two random ppl instead of one and watch u jump around..!! it was frustrating, I myself am most probably going to withdraw my application. I will not recommend this to anyone.

Thanks for all of your responses. I'm glad to hear that the four years won't be hell.

 

[jmick101]

I have to jump in here. I enlisted and inprocessed at the Salt Lake City MEPS (same one as the OP). As someone who has been through basic training, airborne school, ranger school, NCO training, and 4 years of ROTC, I can tell you that what you endured at MEPS is not typical of the Army as a whole. Even in Ranger school we didnt get dogged out unfairly all that often (it did happen). I am not saying that the army doesnt have its fair share of crap that you have to deal with, but its no more uncommon than at some of the other jobs that I have had.

 

[jmick101]

I just had my army Physical today and I have to agree with utahdent, it has by far been the worst experience of my life, ppl were simply rude, disrespectful. What concerned me the most was that there were no female doctors either, which is odd becuz the army is the biggest service; and upon asking i was told that there was only one civilian male doctor on site, like they don't have the money to hire a female doctor!! and Oh yea! so 'we send in a female nurse with the doctor', like thats supposed to make it okay?
It's like my bad we'll send in two random ppl instead of one and watch u jump around..!! it was frustrating, I myself am most probably going to withdraw my application. I will not recommend this to anyone.

Isn't sending in a nurse with a doctor to treat a female patient standard procedure? It wasnt done to offend you or to throw "random people" at you to gratify your sensitivities, but because it is probably a rule.

If what you went through at MEPS is enough to rattle your cage, then the military probably isnt for you anyways. The military is most definately not for thin skinned people.

 

[Motherlovebone]

I've been in the Army Reserves for almost five years and I can tell you basic training was not that bad and in many ways it was a growing experience. OCS is a joke, you pretty much are forced to work out in the morning, watch powerpoint by day, and try to get to bed by a reasonable hour---> A joke! I was also a intern at dentac @ Ft. Lewis washington. All the 04's and above (i.e. Majors and above), were all very nice, informative, and knowelgable. Some were also instructors others were not. Overall, the 200 hours I spent at dentac convinced me that a unless your dad is giving you his/her practice you should go military or community health. The dentac/ medical core is a country club in comparrison to the rest of the military. In any case, you should never be scarred of another man or a woman yelling at you, there just a human being, what could they do to you anyway? Military does not allow Drill seargeants to hit recruits anymore. If you can't handle someone yelling at you, causing you stress and making you work under pressure, then maybe you shouldn't be a dentist

 

[hafido]

I have to chiem in here. I enlisted in the USAR at the tender age of 17. I went through basic, as most likely you will to a certain extent. I was yelled at a lot. The military is a heiarchically structured system that requires every person in it to follow directions and orders. So you think your special because your a dentist, or going to be one? MEPS people don't give a SHi7. You are just a number to them. Grow thicker skin, it will get better. `Take nothing personal. Take what they give and ask for more with a smile on your face(j/K). That is just how the Hazing is.

 

[Blando]

while everyone is reading this.. did any of you army guys go to obc before dental school started your freshman year of d'school??... Or are any of yall planning on going this summer??? I'm trying to go this summer b/c if I can't, I won't be able to until after dental school ends in 4 years

 

[utahdent123]

I just wanted to mention, the original question was whether I would be treated like crap for four years after Dental school. It has nothing to do with whether I can handle it or not. It has everything to do with whether I want to handle it. I can't stand blanket statements like, "If you can't handle blah, blah, blah...then maybe you shouldn't be a dentist" It demontrates to me that you can't even read the question. Since you have difficulty reading, maybe you shouldn't be a dentist. It's a stupid statement and one that is overly used on these forums.

 

[Motherlovebone]

utahdent123,

Nice comeback, very original, you obviously didn't read my blog as well. I said, "Dentac (medical core) is a country club in comparison to the rest of the military and actually they treat you awesome." Other than being stationed in cool places like Hawaii, Arizona, or washington you get Fridays off so you can moonlight elsewhere. I read your blog at 5:00 AM so I apologize that I didn't read it completely. In any case, there is a lot of chances for continuing education, real estate adventures (they pay for housing), and quick advancement. Downsides include getting up early everyday for several years and getting screwed with for a period of 6-8 weeks during OCS or OBC. Benefits are worth the 6-8 weeks of getting messed with. The point I was trying to make is with any medical professional school as stated by my advisor whom is an MD, is that in school you keep your mouth shut, do your best, and after you jumped through enough hoops you might get a chance to work on someone... He compared it to the military in some ways: Stress, pressure, lack of sleep, and psychological hoop jumping. Honestly, I think all people should be in the military and wait tables once in their life so they understand how humanity for the most part has some major Inconsistencies

 

[utahdent123]

utahdent123,

Nice comeback, very original, you obviously didn't read my blog as well. I said, "Dentac (medical core) is a country club in comparison to the rest of the military and actually they treat you awesome." Other than being stationed in cool places like Hawaii, Arizona, or washington you get Fridays off so you can moonlight elsewhere. I read your blog at 5:00 AM so I apologize that I didn't read it completely. In any case, there is a lot of chances for continuing education, real estate adventures (they pay for housing), and quick advancement. Downsides include getting up early everyday for several years and getting screwed with for a period of 6-8 weeks during OCS or OBC. Benefits are worth the 6-8 weeks of getting messed with. The point I was trying to make is with any medical professional school as stated by my advisor whom is an MD, is that in school you keep your mouth shut, do your best, and after you jumped through enough hoops you might get a chance to work on someone... He compared it to the military in some ways: Stress, pressure, lack of sleep, and psychological hoop jumping. Honestly, I think all people should be in the military and wait tables once in their life so they understand how humanity for the most part has some major Inconsistencies

I did read your blog and I appreciated most of what you said, it was just the last statement that I reacted to. I apologize, you make some good points. I'm willing to jump through whatever hoops to become a dentist. I just have to decide whether I'm willing to jump through whatever hoops to have no debt. Honestly, what you have shared has been helpful, that night following the MEPS expeiernce I was ready to take on whatever debt for dental school, but after hearing what all of you have said, I'm leaning once again towards that route. Thanks for your replies.

 

[RypTide11]

Let me start off giving you some background information on me. I am actually in the Army at the moment, as a dental assistant and in the Dental Corps. I do not want to get into why I enlisted after graduating college, but nevertheless it was for good reason. I will be applying during the 2008 cycle and hopefully I get in somewhere.

Now to the question. For some reason, in the Army, it is mandatory for you to be treated like crap while in training. This goes for EVERY "training" school. Everyone goes through it. Think of it as an initiation into an exclusive fraternity. It mostly consists of stupid mind games so it is nothing to stress about. All I can tell you is suck it up and do whatever they tell you to.

After your training (OBC), you will be treated like f'in royalty. You will be treated better than if you were in the civilian world in a practice. You can do no wrong, unless you really f' up. You will be called by your title, saluted if you dare to venture outside your clinic, and have an easy workload to boot.

So there you go, you will be treated well as an officer. I do not want to get to specific because I want to remain somewhat anonymous. But, I will answer questions if it is general enough.

 

[shamrock2006]

Let me start off giving you some background information on me. I am actually in the Army at the moment, as a dental assistant and in the Dental Corps. I do not want to get into why I enlisted after graduating college, but nevertheless it was for good reason. I will be applying during the 2008 cycle and hopefully I get in somewhere.

Now to the question. For some reason, in the Army, it is mandatory for you to be treated like crap while in training. This goes for EVERY "training" school. Everyone goes through it. Think of it as an initiation into an exclusive fraternity. It mostly consists of stupid mind games so it is nothing to stress about. All I can tell you is suck it up and do whatever they tell you to.

After your training (OBC), you will be treated like f'in royalty. You will be treated better than if you were in the civilian world in a practice. You can do no wrong, unless you really f' up. You will be called by your title, saluted if you dare to venture outside your clinic, and have an easy workload to boot. So there you go, you will be treated well as an officer. I do not want to get to specific because I want to remain somewhat anonymous. But, I will answer questions if it is general enough.

Is this true? I mean i'm not going army...i'm going Air Force...but I hope it's not "easy"...i'd like to come out knowing I got a lot of experience....hmmmm

 

[RypTide11]

Well, it just depends on your work ethic and your dental assistant. I'm not sure how they do it in the Air Force, but in the Army you will typically see 2-4 patients in the morning and 2-3 patients in the afternoon depending on what procedure needs to be done. So, when you have downtime in between patients or when your patient fails you have 2 options. Go back to your office to chill or grab a "stand-by" or "sick call" from the front desk. Guess what most doctors do...

Also, your productivity will be dependent on your dental assistant. So keep your dental assistant happy. If you overwork him/her, they'll go on leave for 2 weeks and most likely you'll be assigned a new dental assistant. If you don't do anything, your patient may never get seated....

So yeah it can be easy or a great learning experience. Just take the most out of it.

 

[HenryH]

Well, it just depends on your work ethic and your dental assistant. I'm not sure how they do it in the Air Force, but in the Army you will typically see 2-4 patients in the morning and 2-3 patients in the afternoon depending on what procedure needs to be done. So, when you have downtime in between patients or when your patient fails you have 2 options. Go back to your office to chill or grab a "stand-by" or "sick call" from the front desk. Guess what most doctors do...

Also, your productivity will be dependent on your dental assistant. So keep your dental assistant happy. If you overwork him/her, they'll go on leave for 2 weeks and most likely you'll be assigned a new dental assistant. If you don't do anything, your patient may never get seated....

So yeah it can be easy or a great learning experience. Just take the most out of it.

So I guess these guys aren't just strolling in for a quick check-up or cavity fill, then? I mean, in a civilian private practice, wouldn't an experienced dentist be able to take care of 5 or 6 patients in little more than an hour (depending on procedure, of course)?

 

[RypTide11]

So I guess these guys aren't just strolling in for a quick check-up or cavity fill, then? I mean, in a civilian private practice, wouldn't an experienced dentist be able to take care of 5 or 6 patients in little more than an hour (depending on procedure, of course)?

Nope they are actually procedures. The most common being operative, pulpectomies, and oral surgeries.

Yes civilian dentists can easily see 2-3 patients per hour, but they have 2-3 assistants. At my clinic every doctor is assigned 1 assistant unless if your the oral surgeon then you get 2.