Ask an Active Duty Army Oral Surgeon...........

[ArmyJawBreaker]

I stumbled upon this site by accident, but I think it can be pretty informative. Let me tell you about myself:

1. Currently a Major (O-4) in the US Army Dental Corps
2. Been in the Dental Corps for 8 years
3. Went through 2 residencies in the US Army:
2002 - Fort Lewis 1 year AEGD residency
2005-2009 - Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery residency (Hawaii)
4. Been stationed at Fort Lewis, Washington, Fort Campbell, Kentucky, Hawaii,
and Fort Stewart, Georgia
5. Deployed to Iraq in 2003-2004 as a Brigade Dentist
6. Currently an Oral & Maxillofacial Surgeon at Fort Stewart, Georgia

So, if you have questions I bet that I can answer it for you or find the answers for you. Being currently in the Army and my 8 year experience, I think I have some insight that others would appreciate to know while they decide if the US Army Dental Corps is good for them.

Personally, my health care recruiter was completely clueless and I had to seek out answers from more qualified people.

So drop me a line if you have any questions, I would be more than happy to help.

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[LLUSD2011]

i'm thinking about joining army after i graduate (in 2011). i'm wondering about my chances if i want to specialize in OMFS through army program (like you have) when my grade isn't a top notch.
thank you

 

[Army Brat]

Hello,
I will begin my OMFS Army training in Hawaii next year and was just wondering how your experience was. What was your training like? If you could give me an idea how it is for each year that would be great. The pluses and minuses. Also if you recommend living on or off base. Would living in Kanohe be too far? I really appreciate you coming onto this site because I do have many questions.

 

[JohnniesK9]

I stumbled upon this site by accident, but I think it can be pretty informative. Let me tell you about myself:

1. Currently a Major (O-4) in the US Army Dental Corps
2. Been in the Dental Corps for 8 years
3. Went through 2 residencies in the US Army:
2002 - Fort Lewis 1 year AEGD residency
2005-2009 - Oral and Maxillofacial Surgery residency (Hawaii)
4. Been stationed at Fort Lewis, Washington, Fort Campbell, Kentucky, Hawaii,
and Fort Stewart, Georgia
5. Deployed to Iraq in 2003-2004 as a Brigade Dentist
6. Currently an Oral & Maxillofacial Surgeon at Fort Stewart, Georgia

So, if you have questions I bet that I can answer it for you or find the answers for you. Being currently in the Army and my 8 year experience, I think I have some insight that others would appreciate to know while they decide if the US Army Dental Corps is good for them.

Personally, my health care recruiter was completely clueless and I had to seek out answers from more qualified people.

So drop me a line if you have any questions, I would be more than happy to help.

Why did you decide to become an oral surgeon?

What type of qualities make for a good oral surgeon?

How rigorous is the OMFS army training program?

Why did you do two residencies? Would you do both if you could start from the beginning?

What did you think about the 4 locations you were at? What are the pluses/minuses of each location?

How difficult is it to get Hawaii to train as an OMFS?

Do you think your deployment had a big impact on your ability to get the OMFS residency?

What is the range of board scores/gpa required to get into OMFS in the army?

What type of hours do you put in now? Are you on call quite frequently? How is work/life balance?

 

[ArmyJawBreaker]

i'm thinking about joining army after i graduate (in 2011). i'm wondering about my chances if i want to specialize in OMFS through army program (like you have) when my grade isn't a top notch.
thank you

I can definitely say that anybody who is in the US Army Dental Corps and applies to the OMFS program, they have a better chance of being accepted than the civilian programs. There is a better acceptance percentage because there are far less applicants. In the year I applied, 2003 there were less than 20 applicants for 8 slots. Just by shear numbers, that is a 40% acceptance rate. There are different factors that go into being chosen for OMFS in the US Army compared to the civilian side. They will look at your grades, your DAT scores, your Army experience if you have any, and deployments. Deployments definitely get a better edge than someone who has not deployed because the Army sees that as your commitment to being an Army officer vs someone who seeks to evade their responsibility.

As an OMFS resident, you are definitely paid far superiorly than your civilian counterparts. I did my residency in Hawaii at Tripler Army Medical Center from 2005-2009 and made over $80,000 my first year and $100,000 by my chief year due to salary increases and basic allowance of housing increases. If you are interested to know how much you would make in the Army, it is all public knowledge and I could break it down for you dollar by dollar.

So to wrap it up, I would say you have a far superior chance to be accepted into a US Army OMFS residency than a civilian program if your grades are not top notch and you apply yourself early on in your Army career.

 

[ArmyJawBreaker]

Hello,
What was your training like?

I would say my training was amazing. It prepared me very well for the challenges of being a staff oral surgeon on my own either within the Army or out in the civilian sector if I choose to get out of the Army when my commitment is up.

Hello,
If you could give me an idea how it is for each year that would be great. The pluses and minuses.

Like all Army OMFS training programs, they are 4 years long.
1st year: Off service doing all your medicine and general surgery rotations, to in include 4 months of anesthesia training.
2nd year: 50% oral surgery/ 50% ICU and other medicine rotations
3rd year: 100% oral surgery and running the service when the chief resident is doing other things.
4th year: Chief resident, you run the show and get all the crap when things don't go as planned.

Hello,
Also if you recommend living on or off base. Would living in Kanohe be too far?

There is no housing at Tripler Army Medical Center and no real Army housing nearby other than AMR which in my opinion looks horrendous. My first 3 years of my residency I lived in Kaneohe and we loved it. The current chief resident who is graduating next month has a house in Kaneohe and has lived there her entire residency. Kaneohe has one downfall, it rains at least once a day which can get old.


Hope this helps, more questions then fire away.

 

[ArmyJawBreaker]

Why did you decide to become an oral surgeon?

I wanted to have a career that encompassed more of the medical management of patients, than just your general dentistry that focuses solely on the tooth and not the surrounding structures. That is a generalized comment, but oral surgeons treat more complex facial anomolies and surgical procedures. I love surgery and my favorite color is red, so oral surgery fits my style.

What type of qualities make for a good oral surgeon?

Someone who loves to do complex procedures, is not scared of blood, is dedicated to their job because being on call is a dedication vs a general dentist who leaves work at work and normally is not bothered after hours. Anyone can be an oral surgeon, but it takes a special person with the drive and desire to be a surgeon AND definitely a wife who is commited to the profession as well.

How rigorous is the OMFS army training program?

It sucked, I won't lie. I worked 60-80 a week for four years straight and got 2 weeks of time off per year. If you are married, it takes a special woman to endure those four years in which you are absent from the family and committed to your residency. In residency, it is residency first and everything else a distant second or third.

Why did you do two residencies? Would you do both if you could start from the beginning?

I did the 1 year AEGD residency right out of dental school to get a feel for all the specialties because as everyone knows they don't teach much of anything in the speciality clinics in dental school. In my 1 year residency I fell in love with oral surgery, did a one month rotation with the surgeons at the hospital and I was hooked from that point on. I would definitely do a 1 year AEGD or GPR if you are undecided on a speciality.

What did you think about the 4 locations you were at? What are the pluses/minuses of each location?

I loved all four places I have been thus far in my career. My favorite thus far is here at Fort Stewart, Georgia. I think it is a gem that many others don't know about in the US Army. There are many pluses/ minuses with all the places to include rain in Fort Lewis, being trapped on an island in Hawaii, in the sticks at Fort Campbell. It is what you make it regarding your assignments.

How difficult is it to get Hawaii to train as an OMFS?

Hawaii was my 3rd choice when I ranked where I wanted to do my residency and ended up with Hawaii.

Do you think your deployment had a big impact on your ability to get the OMFS residency?

Deployment definitely helps your resume and application during the OMFS residency selection process. It is only one of many factors they consider.

What is the range of board scores/gpa required to get into OMFS in the army?

I don't think there is a range of required scores, you must be competitive for sure. But to narrow it down to a range, I have never heard of that during the selection process.

What type of hours do you put in now? Are you on call quite frequently? How is work/life balance?

I work 40 hour work weeks now. Start the day at 8am and typically leave the clinic around 3.30pm. Do 4-5 IV sedation cases a day in the clinic. I am on facial trauma call every 3rd week and have been called in the middle of the night 2 times over the past 7 months which I think is awesome. My work/ life balance now is awesome, with me being able to see my family tons more now compared to the residency years.



HOPE THIS HELPS!

 

[agent2362]

Does it really matter which school we go to in the army if we want to specialize? I may just want to go to the school that is shortest time then?

I am currently holding two seats, one at UoP and another at U Penn. The advantages of UoP is its unique 3 year curriculum. The advantages of U Penn is its Ivy League status. At UoP the seats are ranked; at Penn only the first ten seats are ranked and rest unranked. refer to http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=704934

So essentially, I am wondering if you have any idea of the criteria that the army uses to distinguish between students in dental school for the ten OS spots. Rank? (Not Boards since they will be P/F soon).

I've heard what you reflected earlier about better chances in getting oral surgery in the army than in civilian. I spoke to a captain several weeks ago who said in the last three years they have had 17-18 applicants for 10 OS spots--thats really good odds if you ask me.

What would you say to someone who thinks that they are actually limiting their freedom of choice (i.e. 4 yr vs. 6 yr. OMFS, ect.) to do whatever they want in terms of specialties by going into the military?

 

[ArmyJawBreaker]

Does it really matter which school we go to in the army if we want to specialize? I may just want to go to the school that is shortest time then?

I am currently holding two seats, one at UoP and another at U Penn. The advantages of UoP is its unique 3 year curriculum. The advantages of U Penn is its Ivy League status. At UoP the seats are ranked; at Penn only the first ten seats are ranked and rest unranked. refer to http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=704934

So essentially, I am wondering if you have any idea of the criteria that the army uses to distinguish between students in dental school for the ten OS spots. Rank? (Not Boards since they will be P/F soon).

I've heard what you reflected earlier about better chances in getting oral surgery in the army than in civilian. I spoke to a captain several weeks ago who said in the last three years they have had 17-18 applicants for 10 OS spots--thats really good odds if you ask me.

What would you say to someone who thinks that they are actually limiting their freedom of choice (i.e. 4 yr vs. 6 yr. OMFS, ect.) to do whatever they want in terms of specialties by going into the military?

I do not think it matter what dental school you attend vs another one. Your board scores (Part I and II) would matter more than if you went to UPenn vs Pacific. Letters of recommendation, committment letter, oral surgery experience, grades in general, and Army experience way heavily in the decision. So I would attend the dental school you feel most comfortable with and not be worried about that decision determining your future career in OMFS.

I personally feel that someone with a 4yr OMFS degree vs. a dual degree OMFS/ MD are one in the same. Everything a 4 year surgeon is credentialed to perform can be performed by the dual degree surgeon and vice versa. I personally know 6 year dual degree residents that more incapable than a 4 year resident and I know very bright 6 year resident and not so stellar 4 year residents. I am positive if you asked any current OMFS Army surgeon or prior surgeons if they felt cheated by not doing a 6 year OMFS/ MD residency, nearly all 100% of them would say NO. I personally put my vote in for NO as well.


HOPE THIS HELPS!

 

[JohnniesK9]

I work 40 hour work weeks now. Start the day at 8am and typically leave the clinic around 3.30pm. Do 4-5 IV sedation cases a day in the clinic. I am on facial trauma call every 3rd week and have been called in the middle of the night 2 times over the past 7 months which I think is awesome. My work/ life balance now is awesome, with me being able to see my family tons more now compared to the residency years.



HOPE THIS HELPS!

Is this the typical number of hours working in the army once you finish your residency? If you were to leave the army, is this the typical amount of hours in the civilian sector or do the hospitals have more control of your time? How much does an army oral surgeon make coming out of residency and after 5/10 years?

 

[ArmyJawBreaker]

Is this the typical number of hours working in the army once you finish your residency? If you were to leave the army, is this the typical amount of hours in the civilian sector or do the hospitals have more control of your time? How much does an army oral surgeon make coming out of residency and after 5/10 years?

As far as hours, it all depends on where you are stationed. If you are a staff oral surgeon like myself, your hours are as I stated above, 8am-3:30pm. But, if you take a mentor position at a residency program then the hours most likely are longer. The typical civilian oral surgeon works the same hours as I do, the hospitals do not determine your hours because you have your own private practice that you run and manage.

The pay of Army oral surgeon, I will post it on my other post regarding Military pay.


HOPE THIS HELPS!

 

[baseballjunkie]

Does it really matter which school we go to in the army if we want to specialize? I may just want to go to the school that is shortest time then?

I am currently holding two seats, one at UoP and another at U Penn. The advantages of UoP is its unique 3 year curriculum. The advantages of U Penn is its Ivy League status. At UoP the seats are ranked; at Penn only the first ten seats are ranked and rest unranked. refer to http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=704934

So essentially, I am wondering if you have any idea of the criteria that the army uses to distinguish between students in dental school for the ten OS spots. Rank? (Not Boards since they will be P/F soon).

I've heard what you reflected earlier about better chances in getting oral surgery in the army than in civilian. I spoke to a captain several weeks ago who said in the last three years they have had 17-18 applicants for 10 OS spots--thats really good odds if you ask me.

What would you say to someone who thinks that they are actually limiting their freedom of choice (i.e. 4 yr vs. 6 yr. OMFS, ect.) to do whatever they want in terms of specialties by going into the military?

I've read the majority of your posts about choosing between the schools. Just throwing in my 2 cents, if you choose to do HPSP and at the end of your service didn't like being in the Army, then you can say to yourself, "well that wasn't for me but at least I got my school paid for and received additional training out of school." I have met prior service dentists that didn't enjoy being in the military, but they said that they never would have traded the experience and financial opportunity.

With that being said, I hope you make the decision best for you.

 

[krmower]

Does it really matter which school we go to in the army if we want to specialize? I may just want to go to the school that is shortest time then?

I am currently holding two seats, one at UoP and another at U Penn. The advantages of UoP is its unique 3 year curriculum. The advantages of U Penn is its Ivy League status. At UoP the seats are ranked; at Penn only the first ten seats are ranked and rest unranked. refer to http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=704934

So essentially, I am wondering if you have any idea of the criteria that the army uses to distinguish between students in dental school for the ten OS spots. Rank? (Not Boards since they will be P/F soon).

I've heard what you reflected earlier about better chances in getting oral surgery in the army than in civilian. I spoke to a captain several weeks ago who said in the last three years they have had 17-18 applicants for 10 OS spots--thats really good odds if you ask me.

What would you say to someone who thinks that they are actually limiting their freedom of choice (i.e. 4 yr vs. 6 yr. OMFS, ect.) to do whatever they want in terms of specialties by going into the military?

Have you been offered an HPSP? If you apply for a 4 yr HPSP and are awarded one, and then go to UOP you may want to see how that will be impacted since that would really be a 3 yr HPSP and they are out of those.

 

[3rdMolar]

Great thread, thanks for all the info.

I've heard conflicting stories from dental students vs recruiters about the time owed the military for going through dental school and a specialty program.

If you get an HPSP for four years of dental school and then continue with the army for a four to six year specialty/residency, do you leave the residency owing the military 8-10 years of service? Or does the time spent in residency count toward this so you only owe 4-6 years?

 

[krmower]

Great thread, thanks for all the info.

I've heard conflicting stories from dental students vs recruiters about the time owed the military for going through dental school and a specialty program.

If you get an HPSP for four years of dental school and then continue with the army for a four to six year specialty/residency, do you leave the residency owing the military 8-10 years of service? Or does the time spent in residency count toward this so you only owe 4-6 years?

Time in residency does not count.if you search the posts you will see threads where several scenarios are worked out to show how timing affects obligation.

Minimum time you will owe doing OMFS will be 9 yrs.

 

[ArmyJawBreaker]

Great thread, thanks for all the info.

I've heard conflicting stories from dental students vs recruiters about the time owed the military for going through dental school and a specialty program.

If you get an HPSP for four years of dental school and then continue with the army for a four to six year specialty/residency, do you leave the residency owing the military 8-10 years of service? Or does the time spent in residency count toward this so you only owe 4-6 years?

HPSP scholarships and residency obligations can be paid back CONCURRENTLY. Like krmower stated, while you are in residency you can not pay back any obligation. Once your finish your oral surgery, and let's say you have 2 years left of HPSP obligation and now the 4 year oral surgery payback........then you would pay back ONLY 4 years and could get out of the Army after that time.

HOPE THIS HELPS.

 

[agent2362]

Have you been offered an HPSP? If you apply for a 4 yr HPSP and are awarded one, and then go to UOP you may want to see how that will be impacted since that would really be a 3 yr HPSP and they are out of those.

Yes, I actually just signed my HPSP documents and feel great about it. I still have time to decide on which school to apply the scholarship to and the schools have given me another week at least in which to make a decision. I'm not 100% sure but my recruiter told me that if I went to UoP and graduated in 2013, I'm still classified as receiving and being part of the 2014 year of HPSP scholarships. He said the army would not penalize me for graduating a year early. All the current UoP HPSP students I talked to seem to have everything working out okay with their 4 year HPSP.

I'm still confused though about when I have to do OBLC. The recruiter says they try to get you to do it whenever you have time. so if you have time in the summer between first and second year, then they will send you out to a 6 week OBLC. If I go to UoP, I know I only have time to do it after everything is over...

Have you met any UoP grads in the army? Are they as competent as anyone else?

 

[teeth63a]

Have you met any UoP grads in the army? Are they as competent as anyone else?

I'm trying really hard not to be offended by your question, and I'm going to let it slide.

All UOP grads in my time a few years back went to OBLC after we graduated. My experience is that anyone who went to OBLC *after* graduation did better transitioning into military life when they first report to the first duty station. Those who went at any other time before graduation lost most of what they learned about military protocol, bearing and procedures while finishing dental school.

Of the four of us from the same UOP class, 1 didn't do a residency, but eventually became the OIC of a small clinic and got out after 4 years, 1 did a one year residency, deployed to Afghanistan, returned and did an ortho residency, and is now out of the army after completing his obligation (9 years total in), I myself did my 3 years obligation and did a mix of reserve and (current) national guard duty, the last did her time and got out (4 years).

So to answer your question, UOP grads do as well, if not superior to students from other schools.

 

[ArmyJawBreaker]

I don't think any one dental school prepares anyone for the military. I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly from nearly every dental school in the military.

UoP graduates have the same ability and prognosis of being a great military dentist as anyone else.

 

[agent2362]

I'm trying really hard not to be offended by your question, and I'm going to let it slide.

All UOP grads in my time a few years back went to OBLC after we graduated. My experience is that anyone who went to OBLC *after* graduation did better transitioning into military life when they first report to the first duty station. Those who went at any other time before graduation lost most of what they learned about military protocol, bearing and procedures while finishing dental school.

Of the four of us from the same UOP class, 1 didn't do a residency, but eventually became the OIC of a small clinic and got out after 4 years, 1 did a one year residency, deployed to Afghanistan, returned and did an ortho residency, and i now out of the army after completing his obligation (9 years total in), I myself did my 3 years obligation and did a mix of reserve and (current) national guard duty, the last did her time and got out (4 years).

So to answer your question, UOP grads do as well, if not superior to students from other schools.

Thanks. That is what I expected to hear, teeth63a. You should be offended, by that comment, but I wanted to elicit a response. I have heard several suggest (UMKCDDS, ect) that some Uop grads are sub par to many four year students. I am inclined to disagree, since UoP students tend to be significantly brighter than your average dental student. In fact according to a UoP school administrator, the top 35 students there have higher averages than the 35 at Harvard SDM.

My apologies for having hijacked this thread into rabbit trails...

 

[agent2362]

I don't think any one dental school prepares anyone for the military. I have seen the good, the bad, and the ugly from nearly every dental school in the military.

UoP graduates have the same ability and prognosis of being a great military dentist as anyone else.

ArmyJawbreaker,

would you be willing to state some of your statistics (rank, GPA, Board scores, letters of recommendation, unique experience, advanced training) that you used when you successfully applied to the army OMFS program?

It would be great to get a picture of at least one successful combination of those things! Hope you don't mind the question! This has been a fantastic and very helpful thread thus far

 

[ArmyJawBreaker]

ArmyJawbreaker,

would you be willing to state some of your statistics (rank, GPA, Board scores, letters of recommendation, unique experience, advanced training) that you used when you successfully applied to the army OMFS program?

It would be great to get a picture of at least one successful combination of those things! Hope you don't mind the question! This has been a fantastic and very helpful thread thus far

I went to Loma Linda University from 1998-2002 and was ranked #8 among 90 dental students, my GPA was around 3.85, Part I boards was 92 and Part II boards I received an 84. I had been in the US Army for 2 years when I applied to OMFS and got 2 letters of recommendation (1 from Colonel oral surgeon and 1 from Colonel director of my 1 year AEGD residency that I completed). I would say my unique experience was definitely my deployment to Iraq prior to my application, that definitely will help your situation and I did a 1 year AEGD residency at Fort Lewis in 2002, that definitely helped me understand that I loved oral surgery and no other specialty made me happy.

HOPE THIS HELPS!

 

[ddsshin]

just out of curiosity, can you still do fellowship in plastic surgery even without MD degree? I was researching about oral surgeons and alot of doctors (DDS +MD) were performing varieties of facial plastic surgeries.

 

[ArmyJawBreaker]

just out of curiosity, can you still do fellowship in plastic surgery even without MD degree? I was researching about oral surgeons and alot of doctors (DDS +MD) were performing varieties of facial plastic surgeries.

There is no facial plastic surgery fellowship that 4 year oral surgeons do in order to do certain procedures.

The way to think of it is this, an oral surgeon can be qualified or credentialed to perform surgery on anyone from the clavicles up. To include, face lifts (which I did 5 in my 4 year residency), upper and lower lid bleps (did tons of these), rhinoplasties (tons in residency), botox, and anything else you can think of from the clavicles up to include HAIR TRANSPLANTATION (which I did and it sucks).

So, no need for a facial plastics fellowship and having an MD does not allow you to do these procedures over someone with a 4 year degree.

HOPE THIS HELPS!

 

[krmower]

Yes, I actually just signed my HPSP documents and feel great about it. I still have time to decide on which school to apply the scholarship to and the schools have given me another week at least in which to make a decision. I'm not 100% sure but my recruiter told me that if I went to UoP and graduated in 2013, I'm still classified as receiving and being part of the 2014 year of HPSP scholarships. He said the army would not penalize me for graduating a year early. All the current UoP HPSP students I talked to seem to have everything working out okay with their 4 year HPSP.

I'm still confused though about when I have to do OBLC. The recruiter says they try to get you to do it whenever you have time. so if you have time in the summer between first and second year, then they will send you out to a 6 week OBLC. If I go to UoP, I know I only have time to do it after everything is over...

Have you met any UoP grads in the army? Are they as competent as anyone else?

I have spoke with the people who control the scholarships. If you chose to go to UOP, there is no guarantee that the 4 yr HPSP scholarship will be transfered over. It will be evaluated and a decision made at that time - if you go with U of Penn there is not issue.

 

[agent2362]

I have spoke with the people who control the scholarships. If you chose to go to UOP, there is no guarantee that the 4 yr HPSP scholarship will be transfered over. It will be evaluated and a decision made at that time - if you go with U of Penn there is not issue.

Do you know how long it takes to process, once I have let them know? I'm probably going to send in UoP as my decision immediately and see if there is a problem. I can hold onto both schools until May 25th then I have to decide. Hopefully if there's a problem, I still have my acceptance at U Penn in hand

Thanks for the heads up krmower

 

[krmower]

Do you know how long it takes to process, once I have let them know? I'm probably going to send in UoP as my decision immediately and see if there is a problem. I can hold onto both schools until May 25th then I have to decide. Hopefully if there's a problem, I still have my acceptance at U Penn in hand

Thanks for the heads up krmower

I do not know. I would initiate the process of finding out now to minimize any surpise. Ask the recruiter to find out what needs to be done and let him/her initiate things.

 

[Kahr]

ArmyJawBreaker,

Hi, you mention deployment before your OMFS training, I'm curious how, if at all, different deployment is regarding oral surgeons in the Army (where they send you, volunteer or not, length, how many required, etc)?

I may have missed this, but what were your options for where you did your residency other than Hawaii? Do you guys ever do your residency training at Air Force or Navy facilities?

Did you begin receiving your specialty retention bonus when you started your residency, immediately after, or...?

As far as where you're stationed, how much say did you have after finishing your residency? What kind of overseas stations were/are available to you and were they any different than where you could go compared to when you were a general dentist, (including conus locations regarding the differences before and after)?

Thanks for all the great info so far!

 

[krmower]

ArmyJawBreaker,

Hi, you mention deployment before your OMFS training, I'm curious how, if at all, different deployment is regarding oral surgeons in the Army (where they send you, volunteer or not, length, how many required, etc)?

An active duty oral surgeon will deploy for 6 months (whether volunteered or not) - similar to most other dentists. An oral surgeon will be located at one of the bigger medical facilities whereas other dentists may be located at smaller clinics/bases. The number required changes. Iraq uses far fewer now then it has in the past. Afghanistan will use more then it has in the past. However the total number is also dependent on how many the other services send. That number is not releasable in a public setting. Howevere there are far fewer Oral Surgeons then other dentists.

I may have missed this, but what were your options for where you did your residency other than Hawaii? Do you guys ever do your residency training at Air Force or Navy facilities?

Residencies are only offered at Army bases (or the new joint Walter Reed/Bethesda Hospital - an Army/Navy combined program). There are 10 spots available at 6 different locations each year. Hawaii, DC, El Paso, Tx; San Antonio, Tx; Augusta, Ga; Tacoma, Wa.

Did you begin receiving your specialty retention bonus when you started your residency, immediately after, or...?

The new higher retention bonus is only available after all of your pay back to the Army is done. This new "higher/combined" bonus is an additional $100k/yr when taken together. Prior to this you were able to take only part of the bonus ($30k/yr) after you had finished the program, and the other bonus ($50k/yr) when you had completed your pay back. You are still eligible for the other dental bonuses (VSP and DASP).

As far as where you're stationed, how much say did you have after finishing your residency? What kind of overseas stations were/are available to you and were they any different than where you could go compared to when you were a general dentist, (including conus locations regarding the differences before and after)?

You speak with your consultant for oral surgeons as well as the assignments officer and let them know what your choices are. Typically coming out of a residency program you are at the bottom of the priority list, but they will try to match up what you want with what they have available.

You will have fewer locations (both stateside and overseas) available to you as an OMFS. There will be an OMFS at all the large medical centers as well as all the 1 and 2 yr AEGD programs. Also some larger or isolated dental clinics will have them. Some of the locations you will be in a group setting with up to 2 other OMFS, others you may be the only OMFS.

You will not be eligible to be a program director at a training program, but some of the assignments you could go into would be as an OMFS instructor for a 1 or 2 yr AEGD program, or as a staff member at an OMFS program.

Thanks for all the great info so far!

Hope that helps

 

[Krollmi]

I found out I got into OMS, and I have a couple questions.

1. What is the best thing I can do to prepare for my residency and my medical rotations? Dental school definitely leaves some pretty big knowledge gaps in certain areas.

2. Since I am coming right out of dental school I must first practice for a year. What is that year of general dentistry like? How does the dental clinic treat you knowing that you are only there temporarily?

If anyone could answer these questions it would be greatly appreciated! Thank you very much!

 

[krmower]

I found out I got into OMS, and I have a couple questions.

1. What is the best thing I can do to prepare for my residency and my medical rotations? Dental school definitely leaves some pretty big knowledge gaps in certain areas.

Don't know - I would start with your OMFS book.

2. Since I am coming right out of dental school I must first practice for a year. What is that year of general dentistry like? How does the dental clinic treat you knowing that you are only there temporarily?

You will be treated like any other new graduate. Doesn't matter if you are leaving after only a year - you will still be part of their DENTAC and they will still see and interact with you for the next 5 yrs. (4 yrs OMFS + 1 yr snow birding).

When you get there, I wouldn't make references like, "I don't need to worry about that/learn how to do that...I'll be an Oral Surgeon soon." That would be very annoying.

If anyone could answer these questions it would be greatly appreciated! Thank you very much!

Sorry that didn't answer everything.

 

[umkcdds]

I found out I got into OMS, and I have a couple questions.

1. What is the best thing I can do to prepare for my residency and my medical rotations? Dental school definitely leaves some pretty big knowledge gaps in certain areas.

get Fonseca's 3-volume set and study all three (take notes and highlight stuff - don't just read it and forget it) from cover to cover. a lot of it will be very foreign to you, but at least you will have some exposure to the topics and know more about what the OMFS scope of practice.

study head and neck anatomy so that you know it like the back of your hand.

get the Morgan and Mikhail anesthesia book and study it from front to back (skip the regional anesthesia stuff like epidurals, spinals, etc...)

once you get to your first duty station, take ACLS and PALS and get your commander to send you to C4 and do ATLS while you are at C4.

spend as much time doing exodontia as you can for your first year before you start the residency. get proficient at taking out teeth, including difficult third molars.

if your first duty station is the same location as your residency, avoid the OMFS staff like the plague until you actually start the residency.

if you can do these things, you will be leaps and bounds ahead of where you are expected to be when you start the residency.

and make sure you use every last day of your leave before you start, other wise you can kiss it goodbye!

 

[Kahr]

get Fonseca's 3-volume set and study all three (take notes and highlight stuff - don't just read it and forget it) from cover to cover. a lot of it will be very foreign to you, but at least you will have some exposure to the topics and know more about what the OMFS scope of practice.

study head and neck anatomy so that you know it like the back of your hand.

get the Morgan and Mikhail anesthesia book and study it from front to back (skip the regional anesthesia stuff like epidurals, spinals, etc...)

once you get to your first duty station, take ACLS and PALS and get your commander to send you to C4 and do ATLS while you are at C4.

spend as much time doing exodontia as you can for your first year before you start the residency. get proficient at taking out teeth, including difficult third molars.

if your first duty station is the same location as your residency, avoid the OMFS staff like the plague until you actually start the residency.

if you can do these things, you will be leaps and bounds ahead of where you are expected to be when you start the residency.

and make sure you use every last day of your leave before you start, other wise you can kiss it goodbye!

Can you clarify about leave? I mean, are you saying you get absolutely no leave time, or just that you don't get to take much leave and end up going over your 60 day backlog of stored leave and end up losing it rather than using it?

Another question, if you already actively maintain ACLS, PALS, etc, does this give you any edge at all throughout the process exiting dental school in regard to residency selection, etc?

Thanks

 

[umkcdds]

you will get no leave for the during the first 18 months in the residency. after that, you are allowed to take two 7-day blocks of leave per year, usually one around Christmas and one in the summer.

if you have any accrued leave when you start the residency, you will end up losing it because you won't get to use it.

ACLS, PALS, C4 and ATLS won't change anything, as far as applications or selections go. it will just be extra knowledge that you will have prior to starting the residency. it will be something you don't have to take time out of your already busy schedule to do during the residency.

 

[Krollmi]

UMKCDDS,

Thank you very much. Sounds like I have a fun year and a half of reading ahead of me! Now I just need to come up with 500+ dollars for the Fonseca set!

 

[agent2362]

So I am a dental student at UoP (Class of 2013) and all the graduating dental student in the oral surgery club say that it is critical to go to externships for OS. Is that as true in the army as it is in the civilian sector?

Additionally, I have the issue of only having one month of vacation (mostly in June) during my two summers here at UoP in which to take a vacation. All of the HPSP students here regardless of branch are not required to do the summer ADT. Is it possible for me to go to an army OS program for 2-4 weeks during that time for an externship?? And if so, how and when should I be attempting to set that up??

Thanks

 

[krmower]

So I am a dental student at UoP (Class of 2013) and all the graduating dental student in the oral surgery club say that it is critical to go to externships for OS. Is that as true in the army as it is in the civilian sector?

Additionally, I have the issue of only having one month of vacation (mostly in June) during my two summers here at UoP in which to take a vacation. All of the HPSP students here regardless of branch are not required to do the summer ADT. Is it possible for me to go to an army OS program for 2-4 weeks during that time for an externship?? And if so, how and when should I be attempting to set that up??

Thanks

You can do externships with the Army and set them up for the time period that works for you. The best time to set them up is Mar-Apr. I believe your HPSP handbook tells you how to do it.

If you want to do OMFS on your externship then you need to coordinate ahead of time. Pick one of the locations that have an OMFS program and ask the person who is coordinating setting things up if they will let you hand out with mostly OMFS. It will be up to each individual location what they will let you do.

 

[wreMtH]

I found out I got into OMS, and I have a couple questions.

1. What is the best thing I can do to prepare for my residency and my medical rotations? Dental school definitely leaves some pretty big knowledge gaps in certain areas.

2. Since I am coming right out of dental school I must first practice for a year. What is that year of general dentistry like? How does the dental clinic treat you knowing that you are only there temporarily?

If anyone could answer these questions it would be greatly appreciated! Thank you very much!

Krmower: "Minimum time you will owe doing OMFS will be 9 yrs."


So if going into military OMFS you always have to do a year of general dentistry prior to the residency? Is this true of other specialty residencies? I am an HPSP'er and am trying to figure out a realistic timeline for the options I have available to me.

 

[umkcdds]

Krmower: "Minimum time you will owe doing OMFS will be 9 yrs."


So if going into military OMFS you always have to do a year of general dentistry prior to the residency? Is this true of other specialty residencies? I am an HPSP'er and am trying to figure out a realistic timeline for the options I have available to me.

But for very few exceptions, where an spot might be empty for an early start, you always have to wait a year to start a specialty.

The exception are the AEGD's. But those are not specialties.

 

[krmower]

Krmower: "Minimum time you will owe doing OMFS will be 9 yrs."


So if going into military OMFS you always have to do a year of general dentistry prior to the residency? Is this true of other specialty residencies? I am an HPSP'er and am trying to figure out a realistic timeline for the options I have available to me.

It is the same for all specialties. As mentioned previously the only exception to that is if there is an unfilled spot from the year prior and you have done your OBLC prior to graduation from dental school. This is very rare now to find both of those scenarios - it used to be much more common.

 

[DrReo]

I found out I got into OMS, and I have a couple questions.

1. What is the best thing I can do to prepare for my residency and my medical rotations? Dental school definitely leaves some pretty big knowledge gaps in certain areas.

2. Since I am coming right out of dental school I must first practice for a year. What is that year of general dentistry like? How does the dental clinic treat you knowing that you are only there temporarily?

If anyone could answer these questions it would be greatly appreciated! Thank you very much!

Krollmi, about what stats did you apply with? Congratulations on the acceptance.

 

[drgoro]

You know one of the appeals (at least for me) to sign up (army vs navy) is that I could get to cut crazy **** and still do my T&T. I figure the military would see more interesting pathology since its more centralized vs civilian dispersed practice. Is this assumption true? Or is the practice akin to civilian 9-5?

 

[ArmyJawBreaker]

I took a hiatus from the site but I am back again. Any questions, let me know.

ARMYJAWBREAKER

 

[ILUV2SKI]

I am starting dental school this fall free of charge with the ARMY HPSP. I want to do oral surgery very bad and don't really want to work as a general dentist at all in the ARMY. I want to start my ARMY OMFS residency as soon as I graduate dental school. I don't want to do an AEGD or anything else. What kind of class rank, GPA, and board scores do I need? What else can I do these next four years of dental school to give myself the best chance possible of getting an OMFS right out of school? Thanks!

 

[Kahr]

I am starting dental school this fall free of charge with the ARMY HPSP. I want to do oral surgery very bad and don't really want to work as a general dentist at all in the ARMY. I want to start my ARMY OMFS residency as soon as I graduate dental school. I don't want to do an AEGD or anything else. What kind of class rank, GPA, and board scores do I need? What else can I do these next four years of dental school to give myself the best chance possible of getting an OMFS right out of school? Thanks!

Just out of curiosity, if you aren't able to do OMFS, what are you going to do? Also, what made you so certain about OMFS before even starting dental school?

 

[krmower]

I am starting dental school this fall free of charge with the ARMY HPSP. I want to do oral surgery very bad and don't really want to work as a general dentist at all in the ARMY. I want to start my ARMY OMFS residency as soon as I graduate dental school. I don't want to do an AEGD or anything else. What kind of class rank, GPA, and board scores do I need? What else can I do these next four years of dental school to give myself the best chance possible of getting an OMFS right out of school? Thanks!

Same thing as anyone else. Make sure you are in the top 10-20% of your class. Score in the 90's on your boards (if they haven't gone pass/fail yet), and get some good letters of recommendation.

Also your chance of going to OMFS straight after school is slim to none unless you get to OBLC before dental school or in between your 1st and 2nd year. Otherwise even if you get into OMFS you will have to do 1 yr as a general dentist.

I hope it all works out for you - cause it seems like you have your future already all planned out. What's your contingency plan?

 

[ShakaZulu]

Same thing as anyone else. Make sure you are in the top 10-20% of your class. Score in the 90's on your boards (if they haven't gone pass/fail yet), and get some good letters of recommendation.

Also your chance of going to OMFS straight after school is slim to none unless you get to OBLC before dental school or in between your 1st and 2nd year. Otherwise even if you get into OMFS you will have to do 1 yr as a general dentist.

I hope it all works out for you - cause it seems like you have your future already all planned out. What's your contingency plan?

What he said...On the other hand, if you don't have the stats go to a one year AEGD and let it be known that you are interested in OMS. A buddy of mine was in the bottom 10-20% of his class, scored less than 80 on his National Boards. Guess what? He will be starting his OMS residency in 2012. Why? He was very good at exodontia and really impressed his OMS instructor while in residency (1 year AEGD).

 

[damelotti]

Anyone, please help.

I am an active duty Navy Corpsman recently accepted to Case Western School of Dental Medicine and I am applying to both the Navy and Army HPSP programs. My question to you, based on your experience, is in which of the 2 branches (Navy or Army) will it be more likely to receive a deferment to attend a civilian OMFS/MD residency if accepted to that program? Although my research shows both the 4 years and 6 years programs are similar (Case Western offers the OMFS/MD in 5 years), I feel obtaining the MD degree opens more doors in the future if a subsequent fellowship is desired. What are your thoughts?
In a nutshell, how does the process work when applying to the residency program if attending school via HPSP? Does the Army or Navy obligate you to attend their residency program or do you have a choice on whether to attend the civilian program (deferment) or the military program?
Thank you so much for your time and help.

 

[krmower]

Anyone, please help.

I am an active duty Navy Corpsman recently accepted to Case Western School of Dental Medicine and I am applying to both the Navy and Army HPSP programs. My question to you, based on your experience, is in which of the 2 branches (Navy or Army) will it be more likely to receive a deferment to attend a civilian OMFS/MD residency if accepted to that program? Although my research shows both the 4 years and 6 years programs are similar (Case Western offers the OMFS/MD in 5 years), I feel obtaining the MD degree opens more doors in the future if a subsequent fellowship is desired. What are your thoughts?
In a nutshell, how does the process work when applying to the residency program if attending school via HPSP? Does the Army or Navy obligate you to attend their residency program or do you have a choice on whether to attend the civilian program (deferment) or the military program?
Thank you so much for your time and help.

Army will not give you the option to defer - you can ask - but it won't happen.

Also please read past threads on 4 vs 6 yr OMFS that have been discussed at length.

 

[damelotti]

Army will not give you the option to defer - you can ask - but it won't happen.

Also please read past threads on 4 vs 6 yr OMFS that have been discussed at length.

Thank you for your time KRmower