I’ve had some people tell me you can stay at Camp Lejuene for several years-do an AEGD, do your year post residency, and then take blue side orders there for three more. Is that actually possible, or do they basically require you to move?
Ask any questions to a Navy Dentist!
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yea, absolutely. I know people that spent their whole time at LeJuene. It’s not a great area though and there isn’t much to do. It’s close to good areas though. Wilmington is a about an hour south. So you do your credentialing tour (I think they still have one) or AEGD at Lejuene then you take orders right after that. It’s a huge base and not a popular destination so they are always in need of filling billets.
I’m not sure what post residency year you are talking about. I’ve never heard of that.
You are always eligible to deploy out of LeJuene though. It’s technically operational and they ask for volunteers for all Marine Expeditionary Unit deployments. Usually there are volunteers who want to pad their resume.
I have a few questions in regards to joining the Navy as a dentist. I've read thru this thread/forum category, but most posts are in regards to scholarships/payback.
Some background info: 2017 DDS, and a 1yr AEGD completed. Bounced around a few associateships, and with this CV-19 thing, new jobs may be difficult to find. (Although I wouldn't mind replacing a hygienist who refuses to work).
I was always interested in the Navy, but never got around to applying for any scholarships. I currently still have student loans, and enlisting may be financial suicide.
Currently, I am leaning towards the reserves, but am open to AD. I would like to maintain my skillset (endo/3rd molar ext), but it appears that I would need to do a 2-year credentialing tour despite my 1year PGY-1.
1) Would the 2yr tour count as service?
2)I am currently in socal, living with family. Should I expect to be relocating?
3) With military cutbacks, is the Navy hiring dentists? Would pay be reduced?
I am reading mixed reviews. SDN generally advises to do the required time and get out, dentaltown generally is in favor of it. r/dentistry is mixed.
Thanks yall
-kcn
Some background info: 2017 DDS, and a 1yr AEGD completed. Bounced around a few associateships, and with this CV-19 thing, new jobs may be difficult to find. (Although I wouldn't mind replacing a hygienist who refuses to work).
I was always interested in the Navy, but never got around to applying for any scholarships. I currently still have student loans, and enlisting may be financial suicide.
Currently, I am leaning towards the reserves, but am open to AD. I would like to maintain my skillset (endo/3rd molar ext), but it appears that I would need to do a 2-year credentialing tour despite my 1year PGY-1.
1) Would the 2yr tour count as service?
2)I am currently in socal, living with family. Should I expect to be relocating?
3) With military cutbacks, is the Navy hiring dentists? Would pay be reduced?
I am reading mixed reviews. SDN generally advises to do the required time and get out, dentaltown generally is in favor of it. r/dentistry is mixed.
Thanks yall
-kcn
Ah, That’s interesting. But basically the AEGD is one year and then they keep you there another year-what I refer to as a post residency year. Haha. Past that though is what I was wondering about. I have a situation I did not have when I took HPSP so that would actually be pretty nice if I could get five years in one location.
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The military is cutting its number of dentists. There are few if any spots for people to come in outside of the HPSP. Another poster mentioned the Navy is cutting its number of HPSP scholarships nearly in half this coming cycle. They have also reduced their retention bonuses to encourage people to leave. Not sure how hard it is to land a spot in the Reserves, but it’s also likely a challenge now.
Big Hoss
Edit: If you’re just looking for a “secure” government gig, look at something like the Indian Health Service.
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Is there anyone here willing to speak on the pros/cons of joining the Reserves after serving your 4-year payback? Both of my HPSP interviewers were in the Reserves and they mentioned the benefits and camaraderie of still being affiliated with the Navy, but I was wondering if anyone could add their own reasons for joining (or why they decided against it)?
If you have a working spouse with access to a family benefits plan does that influence your decision? Are the retirement benefits of a 20 year career (4 years active duty, 16 years Reserve) a serious consideration or just a nice bonus for serving? Lastly, how likely are you to undergo time commitments (i.e. months away from your practice) in addition to drilling one weekend per month and 2 weeks per year?
Thank you in advance to anyone with insight on this because I'm trying to figure out if there really is such a thing as "best of both worlds"!
If you have a working spouse with access to a family benefits plan does that influence your decision? Are the retirement benefits of a 20 year career (4 years active duty, 16 years Reserve) a serious consideration or just a nice bonus for serving? Lastly, how likely are you to undergo time commitments (i.e. months away from your practice) in addition to drilling one weekend per month and 2 weeks per year?
Thank you in advance to anyone with insight on this because I'm trying to figure out if there really is such a thing as "best of both worlds"!
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I didn't do a AEGD/GPR and I do all of those procedures.
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I would say the single best reason to join would be the Tricare. Very affordable for families. Secondly, depending on your rank and time in will determine your pay but it isn't great. Drilling can be a hassle if you don't live in a Navy rich area. I thought about going Navy reserves but truth is they are incredibly oversaturated for general dentists and the pay stinks. You could go National guard, probably stay local for your 2 weeks(unless you want to fancy going overseas for that time), and get all the same benefits plus a accession/retention bonus. You also have to remember that you will deploy at some point if you stay in long enough. It really is a personal choice in the end. Talk with a recruiter to see if it works for you.
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I was HPSP and did 6 years, 2 extra to pay off wife loans. No AEGD/GPR. Did a ship and getting out to go to a civilian endo residency. Its possible but honestly I would do the 1 year residency. You get amazing pay, compared to others and when time comes to apply either Navy or civilian you won't have to answer the question of why you didn't do one. If you are looking to do in service you could attempt to apply after school or your first year but VERY RARELY this happens. Do a credentialling/AEGD/GPR tour, a ship or overseas, and after that you will be a competitive and put you at the 4 year mark. Stay or leave its up to you. Military looks killer on civilian applications.
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I just got here at Lejeune for my AEGD. I doubt you can be here 5 years but you could definitely extend your two year orders and make it to 3. They are building a new clinic here to be finished in the spring at it actually looks like it’ll be the best of the best. 3 primescans and a primescan mill with even more omnicams and Mills.
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On the ship, do we get internet? I feel like maintaining a relationship with my SO will be difficult if I am to be deployed 6-7 months...
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Yes, you do. If you are on a LSD/LPD or LHD as a department head you get your own office with a computer. You can also get a laptop distributed to you for your room. They do cut off the Internet for security drills and real life stuff sometimes. Most we experienced was a 3 day stretch. But if you are a department head you can get clearance to use the Internet during these times. I can’t speak for the carriers. But I’m sure it’s fairly similar although you won’t get your own office.
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schmoob
Yes you get internet via SHF. As mentioned, it gets cut off by IT during drills and operations but not for long enough to really make a difference.
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I was on a carrier. Shared 3 computers with 4 officers. Due to the high volume of sailors and low internet bandwidth, we had internet hours implemented and it was rank based. As mentioned above, you can rent a laptop, but I wasn't able to get internet in my stateroom. Lastly, this is not the kind of internet speeds you are used too. I spent 2 hours one day waiting to download a 30sec video of my newborn son.... my wife and I communicated mostly via email and SAT phone.
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Thanks for the replies! I already been accepted into the army branch of HPSP, but I am considering Navy. Is it too late to switch over branches?
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How often are we deployed? If we deployed for 7 months, will I be free for 7 months on shore side until the next ship deployment?
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It depends on a lot. If your ship goes to the yards then you won’t be deployed for a while. This is even if you’re stationed on a ship.
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Yea, you won’t know until you talk to somoneone who can go over the yard/ work-up/ deployment schedule with you. And that all is subject to change too. I was gone 14 months out of 24 months. That’s a full work up schedule and 4 months of a 7 month deployment. Don’t sleep on work ups. Everyone only talks about deployments. My work up period lasted about a year and 2 months and kept us out to sea about 10 months off and on.
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To anyone that has had assignments on an LSD/LHD, what does your day to day usually look like? I am interested to know for both during deployments and while on shore. Credentialing LT here that is penciled in for on of those ships. Thanks in advance.
I have heard that the military is cutting the pay incentives several places in this board. However, from my understanding, the new defense bill that will become law actually increased special pay/ other pay types for health professionals. Did they changed their minds on the cuts or am I missing something?
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I recommend DO NOT do it. I can tell you personally if you want more information, but don't waste your time with Navy OMS in general, especially if you're single. You'll get shafted when it comes to duty stations, you'll likely be treated as poorly because they won't give you a higher rank (O-4) prior to joining, and it's a headache dude. Stick with the reserves at best.
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Couple of comments:
1) Why would they just give you O-4 rank? They will give you a higher rank if you fill a niche and you have the adequate time practicing on the civilian side (usually 1 year = 0.5 year of military time). I have anecdotal evidence of an OMFS coming in as an O-6. If you come from a 6 year program to the Navy, you will probably be an O-3, but not for very long.
2) As an OMFS you are highly desired because of your skill set so yes you are going to go operational to ships and deploy to the middle east and areas of need. Probably not Hawaii, Guam, Spain etc. right away. Need to pay your time to get those locations. If you were expecting to chill in a hospital.... I will say being single, yes you tend to get sent to crappier places.
3) Military OMFS is a great deal if you can go straight out of school. Period. 8 years of service for being the highest paid residents with military benefits and no loans for school. I would probably only consider FAP if you really wanted to serve.
Sorry you had a bad experience, but sounds more like you were not adequately informed before you made the decision to join.
hello! i applied to both army and navy branches and received an offer from the navy, still awaiting response from the army. if i am offered the army scholarship, how should I go about telling my army recruiter that i received another scholarship and would like to cancel my paperwork? thanks in advance!
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1) 1 year of civilian experience equates to 0.5 years of military time? What a joke. Time in the real world should equate to an equal or greater time of service given the exposure one should have in the real world compared to what is seen in the military. RARELY will anyone be gained as an O-6, I've never heard of this but hey if you have then I think that would be awesome! (despite the fact there's an age limit to joining and if you're an O-6 you're likely NOT 35 years old). Most people who decide to join the reserves, while they've been in practice for 15-20 years already, come in as an O-4 or maybe O-5. Coming from a 6 year residency vs a 4 year residency has no impact on your rank while your lineal number is, as this is what determines when you're "in-zone" for a promotion. This is the fallacy of the military specifically. Promotions based on an arbitrary date of rank determining ones "lineal number" rather than their skill set itself. Based on that comes the actual phasing plan so to say "you'll have to be an O-3 for not very long" is absurd as some members have to wait almost 2 years until you promote based on actual the phasing plan (2 per month until everyone in September the following year).
2) As an OMFS your skill set is not utilized appropriately on operational platforms. The purpose of "operational platforms" themselves is damage control surgery in the first place (not maintaining or growing surgical skill sets). This has nothing to do with "doing your time in the service" to "earn your spot at a cushy duty station later". It's all politics. If you know the right person they hook you up, ESPECIALLY if you trained in-service, but hey that' s just life. If you're out-service trained or doing FAP you'll get the short end of the stick, ALWAYS. If you're single and out-service trained/FAP you'll ABSOLUTELY get the short end of the stick. The more practical approach is to actually send surgeons during their 2nd year (of their multiple year commitment) to an operational platform, but then again this is just my opinion. Operational platforms are different for a variety of services but the only TRUE operational platforms in the Navy are carriers and Okinawa. Everything else might as well be a clinic, unless it's one of the big 3 NMCs.
I would say my 1 year on the carrier right after residency did not help me "grow and build" my skills in any major way, nor did it make me a better surgeon. In no way was this "paying my dues" while others easily got their pick to chill stateside and took advantage of the system by moonlighting all the time while they're pumping out their 4th kid LOL. Yes I was able to push the limit to do more than my counterparts (because of great support from my immediate leadership) BUT this would have been MUCH better served 1 year AFTER serving somewhere stateside.
3)I joined Navy through FAP to serve my country, unlike most of the other surgeons who've just piggy-backed a free ride from dental school onwards. Hands down if one gets into a military residency RIGHT AFTER dental school that is easily the best way to go and you're right! But don't forget, the pay is not based on your specialty, the pay is based on "years of service" and thus if you're fortunate to start a military residency right after dental school then don't expect your pay to be significantly "higher than other residents". Most residents in military service training residencies have completed their 4 year HPSP commitment, so when you at someone's rank as an O-3 or O-4 with 5 years of service then yes SURE from a national figure you're earning more than most other residents in other specialities. If you're comparing apples-to-apples, having NO school debt while still getting paid to train and owing 5-10 years of service, it's not a bad gig. When looking the delta between what one earns after year 3 and between year 3-10 in the civilian sector (taking into consideration costs of malpractice, disability, work life balance, and tax avoidance) the delta immediately shows a significant loss of income that one will NEVER recover with a "military pension/retirement plan". If anyone needs the specific calculator let me know and I can email it to you. If you're a family of 5-6 with a spouse who's hanging out with all the other Navy wives and your family also has supported you most of the time then ABSOLUTELY the military is a solid and easy gig. Heck I would say it's probably the BEST gig since one may barely work hard at all, and you'll always get your pick and choice where you want to be. If you're single, have debt from school itself, or have been a self starter your life without much support from others, I wouldn't recommend FAP because the military will always place you where they want and need.
Fortunately I did my DD on FAP and TMS prior to joining, EXCEPT there were some things (as noted above) that I didn't know. Despite there being a lot of unfairness in the military overall and cherry-picking politics within it (which the only people who would deny this are those who train WITHIN the Navy/USAF/Army residencies, i.e. NOT FAP), I've actually had an awesome experience overall. Met some of the BEST mentors ever, learned more about what NOT to do and also have been able to use my money towards appropriate investments to earn greater returns than any TSP or "high 3" pension could be. Although I've been serving during a time of Covid, I would say the best part of this also was being able to positively impact the lives of young enlisted sailors, who I can inspire to achieve their goals and dreams. That stuff is intangible. I would just make sure ANYONE should always double check things before you sign that dotted line and negotiate a contract that limits your commitment to 3-4 years at most. This gives you the upper hand at the end of everything to decide what YOU want to do rather than the military deciding only. Just be ready, things might not be as easy.
One big advantage you do have of FAP, and I'd recommend this to anyone with school debt, is using your IBR/REPAYE concurrently during residency AND then during military service. It'll still count towards your 120 total payments and within 4-5 years you'll be entirely debt free, AS LONG AS YOU MADE PAYMENTS DURING RESIDENCY AND ACTIVE DUTY. It's a good loophole not many people know about and the ones who take advantage of it are golden.
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Just speaking frankly, I wouldn't recommend the Army at all unless you had some family history where you want to be in it and are ok living in the middle of no where. Navy is a bit better in terms of locations, and if you're working at a local clinic it's super easy to find moonlighting gig. Air Force would have been the best of both worlds for any dentist or specialist.
i appreciate your input! i honestly also prefer the navy. i just applied to the army to increase my chances of a scholarship but now i don’t know how to go about letting them down easy.
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Congrats on getting the scholarship.
When I got picked up with Navy I called my Air Force recruiter and just explained the situation. He was understanding but truthfully he was the most responsive of all three recruiters I worked with.
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No one comes in as o6 o5 maybe even o4(ive seen gen surg physician join as o3 and who got promoted pretty quickly) without adequate prior service time as either ad or reservist you are misinformed rah
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I’m afraid you’re misinformed. I have personally seen people come in as O-5, and plenty of O-4’s.
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thank you for the advice! why did you decide to choose the navy over the air force?
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I was worried at the time that if I waited for Air Force to select, Navy might drop my scholarship. In hindsight I could’ve kept the position in Navy and waited to see if I picked up Air Force. Navy typically have better duty stations but risk getting stationed in a ship. And I think day to day in Air Force dentistry would be slight better.
Air Force requires a neutral year for AEGD or GPR while Navy does not. You can do those in navy but if you take a credentialing tour it counts towards your payback. I applied to endo residency (thankfully got accepted and begin this summer) so I wanted to do my minimum time, gain some Endo experience in the service and move onto residency. So in the end going Navy instead of Air Force saved me one year in the service. So it worked out good in the end
yeah i feel that pressure because my recruiter was also rushing me saying they’ll give up my spot to someone on the alternates list.
congrats on the endo residency! so you are finishing up your four years in the navy and doing a civilian endo residency? is it true that if you don’t do a gpr, they won’t allow you to do as many procedures and you’ll just mostly be stuck drilling and filling?
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No. Keep in mind the Navy is all about metrics and operational readiness. That being said, it really just depends on where you get stationed(ship vs shore), the treatment needs, and how motivated you are. I didn't do a GPR and have done tons of RCTs, veneers, bleaching, extractions, crowns and bridges. I ended up doing a lot of endo as most of my peers didn't want to do it so they referred them to me.
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In my case I only had 3 year commitment because I went to UOP (year for year HPSP). I will be separating from the service and using the GI bill to pay for civilian residency.
You would probably gain more experience the first year at a GPR than a credentialing tour but as mentioned above what you do after the first year all depends on location, leadership and operational needs. If you go somewhere with “low needs” you are free to do more elective care. But if you go somewhere that deploys often exams and direct restorative are the needs to try to prevent dental emergencies while abroad. Therefore less options for more “specialty care.”
And the unfortunate thing is military dentistry is dumbed down dentistry and what is considered general in the private sector may be passed onto the specialists. I’ve been able to do a fair amount of endo to supplement our specialists but still do a lot of exams to help with readiness
thank you for your response! if you don’t mind sharing, where were you stationed? if i decide i want to be stationed there in the future, is it likely that i’ll also gain the same experiences as you did? also did you separate after your time commitment?
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Problem with trying to track experiences at duty stations is that every two to three years you get a complete turn over of all personnel and leadership. So what was a great duty station with freedom to do a ton of procedures could be the exact opposite by the time you get there.
It doesn’t hurt to ask but no guarantee...
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Read through the entire thread. Got all of my answers to my questions. Thank yall Navy veterans for posting. Very valuable information in this thread.
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Current 4th year HSCP.. looking forward to serving in the Navy. After talking to a friend (HSCP) who went through ODS last June she told me that because of COVID Navy members are allowed to bank 120 leave days and that they will be use or lose by September 2024.
I will have close to 120 days once I begin my credentialing tour.. I would like to use these extra 60 days but I feel like the credentialing tour will be something I need to take advantage of and learn from. Would it be better to use the extra use or lose days during my operational tour or is leave not granted during that time.
Also, would 60 days of leave get approved if used all at once?
Just trying to plan and use it wisely.
I will have close to 120 days once I begin my credentialing tour.. I would like to use these extra 60 days but I feel like the credentialing tour will be something I need to take advantage of and learn from. Would it be better to use the extra use or lose days during my operational tour or is leave not granted during that time.
Also, would 60 days of leave get approved if used all at once?
Just trying to plan and use it wisely.
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That’s actually kind of tricky. Credentialing tour has to approve the leave first of all, and some Dept. Heads can be strict about it. You could scatter in a couple days a month during your credentialing tour to chew up some of the leave. And of course you could do a Friday- Monday and eat up for 4 days that way making sure no one bothers you. If you are on a ship you aren’t going to be able to take a lot of leave. If you go to LeJune or Oki on an operational tour you could take a good bit of leave.
60 days does not get approved for an officer. I saw it for enlisted during separation leave. You could get 30 days for separation leave but that’s at the end of your time in the Navy. No way your CO grants you 30+ days to just have off during your active duty service.
Did anything ever happen with this? Did you/your recruiter submit an appeal?
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Per BUMED 1520 (last year)
Commanding Officer’s or Dean’s Letter of Endorsement. [Applicant submits] Applicant must obtain a letter of endorsement from their current commanding officer or dental school dean. The endorsement must be written on command or dean’s letterhead and may be written as a simple endorsement or a full length letter of endorsement, per the discretion of the author. This letter does not count as one of the candidate’s three letters of evaluation.
Talk to any officer that did DUINS in the past. They can help you draft something. Obviously, if you know the CO personally this will hold more weight, but if not just draft up a generic endorsement and route up where the CO will sign. More of a "check the box" thing really.
Commanding Officer’s or Dean’s Letter of Endorsement. [Applicant submits] Applicant must obtain a letter of endorsement from their current commanding officer or dental school dean. The endorsement must be written on command or dean’s letterhead and may be written as a simple endorsement or a full length letter of endorsement, per the discretion of the author. This letter does not count as one of the candidate’s three letters of evaluation.
Talk to any officer that did DUINS in the past. They can help you draft something. Obviously, if you know the CO personally this will hold more weight, but if not just draft up a generic endorsement and route up where the CO will sign. More of a "check the box" thing really.
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It’s crazy that’s it’s been some years and I found this thread again. I ended up doing this exactly except I did the credentialing tour (green) and will be getting my FMF warfare device this year
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Questions regarding post-dental school Navy dentist experience.
1. Is there a process of "ranking" top choices of bases to be stationed at? (please disregard any terminology that doesn't apply to Navy life, still have yet to actually serve!)
2. For the ladies (or gents), how does being pregnant impact service station? (not pregnant, but will plan to start a family once graduated from dental school)
3. Follow up to #1, how likely is it that we get top pick if there is a ranking system? Does time served (second station for example) give more "negotiating" power when getting stationed?
4. How long are typical duty stations?
My personal dilemma/life issue: My husband is same year as me but in medical school and is not in the military and has no plans to enter. I am Navy HPSP recipient. When we graduate we will be either separating for his medical residency and my service time, or hoping to align our locations as happened when we applied and got into dental school/medical school in the same state AND city (praise be!). My desire is to have a realistic expectation of post-grad life and determining just how possible it will be to "choose" a location based off where he might be located since medical residencies are ~4 years.
Thank you in advance!
1. Is there a process of "ranking" top choices of bases to be stationed at? (please disregard any terminology that doesn't apply to Navy life, still have yet to actually serve!)
2. For the ladies (or gents), how does being pregnant impact service station? (not pregnant, but will plan to start a family once graduated from dental school)
3. Follow up to #1, how likely is it that we get top pick if there is a ranking system? Does time served (second station for example) give more "negotiating" power when getting stationed?
4. How long are typical duty stations?
My personal dilemma/life issue: My husband is same year as me but in medical school and is not in the military and has no plans to enter. I am Navy HPSP recipient. When we graduate we will be either separating for his medical residency and my service time, or hoping to align our locations as happened when we applied and got into dental school/medical school in the same state AND city (praise be!). My desire is to have a realistic expectation of post-grad life and determining just how possible it will be to "choose" a location based off where he might be located since medical residencies are ~4 years.
Thank you in advance!
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1./3. Yes, you will rank some choices for AEGD/GPR/credentialing tour.
There are no Guarantees you’ll get your top pick but you’ll be at one of the large installions in the US (Walter Reed DC, Camp Lejeune NC, Norfolk VA, Parris Island SC, San Diego CA, Camp Pendleton CA or Great Lakes Chicago) for 2 years.
You can get your orders cut to 1 year (or 6 months in my case) to fill a ship or other operational need.
Which brings me to my next answer..
2. As a guy having a family, you can still be assigned to a deployable platform like a ship or pray for shore Duty. I have peers who are new fathers in both situations but are making it work.
As a female who is pregnant, I am pretty sure you cannot be assigned to an operational/deployable platform. You’ll most likely get shore duty but again, no guarantees.
You can tell the detailer about your plan to start a family and your husbands situation and they will try to make it work. The navy can’t tell you to not start a family but just be prepared to possibly be separated geographically
Good luck!
