Astro Career Center and "A Roadmap for Recruiting Medical Students into Radiation Oncology during a Period of Waning Interest"

[jondunn]

No place is perfect... I'd take the Bible thumpers in TX (which are probably well outside the PRA's city limits) over the poop patrol in SF any day

Austin is changing. but yeah it's still not SF level.

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[medgator]

Austin is changing. but yeah it's still not SF level.

In terms of homelessness or fecal coliform levels on the street? You might be right on both counts....

 

[NotMattSpraker]

If you get starting 450+ and 4 days in office, 5-7 consults a week in a decent area - this is now a “good job”

Very interested in these models so spent a lot of time talking to chairs and ops directors about them when I could. The downsides have been outlined nicely, agree that special attention is needed on the details because they are highly variable. "Bad" is also only relative to what you have now.

If I were looking for such a job, I'd focus a lot more on the standard happiness related aspects than how "academic" the job is, since that part is highly variable, poorly defined, and its hard to be academically "successful" in the traditional sense in Rad Onc anyway. You don't hear a lot of stories of people being hired on as an academic satellite person then moving to the main center with significant protected time for research, but they are out there. Rarely.

Things like: pay with bonus structure, especially relative to other faculty (sometimes better than main), expected volume and if there are expectations to grow, who refers to you (local PP or academic, and is this changing), do you commute far from where you want to live, who hires the staff, is there "decentralization"... ie do you get "main center" physics and dosimetry. Do you get trials, if you care. Can you do all procedures at the satellite such as spine SBRT or abdomen, if you care.

Another thing to think about is whether you have access to some main center faculty for mentorship (clinical or otherwise, some are excellent teachers) and if the big center name on your CV will help you achieve some goal in the future.

Admittedly, not well versed in all the jobs, but the above situation doesn't seem all that common unfortunately.

 

[deleted1116990]

do you commute far from where you want to live

The driving all over the place model for the same pay and benefits as the people who staff the main site all day is untenable. Main site rad onc doesn't want to staff multiple satellites but at the same time they want the volume funneled to them for extra RVU so will be unhappy if the float rad oncs have a ton of patients under beam at 3 different sites that is counting to their production numbers resulting in them outearning the main site docs. Will try to make policies like all SBRT, curative H&N, or even breast with RNI have to be funneled to main site. Puts the chair in a lose-lose position and the commuter positions become high turnover slots for newbies.

Many new grads do not want to work hard, but there are a few out there who will be happy to drive between multiple sites and cover 40 patients if pay is double compared to a standard 20 patient load (as it should be) and given adequate time off to decompress from grueling work days. Make somebody do that for 25th percentile pay without an admin day (or worse make them staff palliative cases and funnel everything else), and you will have a very high turnover (or completely unfillable in a less desirable city) position.

 

[fiji128]

Update of the current Astro Career Center Job posting on 09/01/2022 (done via Astro Member search):


1) Rad Onc academics with University of Nebraska (Omaha, NE).
2) Rad Onc community academics with University of Kentucky (Morehead, KY).
3) Rad Onc community academics with Cleveland Clinic (Vero Beach, FL).
4) Rad Onc academics with UC Davis (Sacramento, CA).
5) Yale academics with Yale (New Haven, CT).
6) Rad Onc private practice with Missouri Cancer Associates (Columbia, MO).
7) Rad Onc private practice with Anchorage and Valley Radiation Therapy (Anchorage, AK).
8) Rad Onc community academics with Thomas Jefferson (Cherry Hill, NJ).
9) Rad Onc academics with SUNY Upstate (Syracuse, NY).
10) Rad Onc academics with Beaumont (Royal Oak, MI).
11) Rad Onc employed with Saint Joseph Hospital (Bardstown, KY).
12) Rad Onc academics with Cleveland Clinic (Cleveland, OH).
13) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Associates (Appleton, WI).
14) Rad Onc employed with Barrow Neurological Institute (Phoenix, AZ).
15) Rad Onc private practice with Sand Lake Cancer Center (Orlando, FL).
16) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health Monroe Clinic (Monroe, WI).
17) Rad Onc employed with Essentia Health (Duluth, MN).
18) Rad Onc academics with Metro Health ie Case Western (Cleveland, OH).
19) Rad Onc academics with Thomas Jefferson (Philadelphia, PA).
20) Rad Onc academics with Standford (Palo Alto, CA).
21) Rad Onc academics with University of Pittsburgh (Pittsburgh, PA).
22) Rad Onc employed with Rochester Regional Health (Rochester, NY).
23) Rad Onc employed with University of New Mexico (Albuquerque, NM).
24) Rad Onc private practice with Piedmont Radiation Oncology (Winston Salem, NC).
25) Rad Onc private practice with Spectrum Healthcare Partners (Portland, ME).
26) Rad Onc employed with Centura Health (Colorado Springs, CO). Salary $30.00 to $283.02/hour.
27) Rad Onc academics with MDACC (Houston, TX).
28) Rad Onc employed with Essentia Health (Fargo, ND).
29) Rad Onc employed with Holy Family Memorial Medical Center (Manitowoc, WI).
30) Rad Onc employed with Avera Medical Group (Marshall, MN).
31) Rad Onc academics with NYU (New York, NY).
32) Rad Onc community academics with University of Michigan (Alma, MI).
33) Rad Onc private practice with Associated Medical Professionals (Syracuse, NY).
34) Rad Onc private practice with Pottstown Regional Radiation Oncology (Pottstown, PA).
35) Derm Rads employed with Riverchase Dermatology (Naples, FL).
36) Rad Onc academics with Columbia (New York, NY).
37) Rad Onc employed with VA (Houston, TX).
38) Rad Onc employed with Methodist Health System (Omaha, NE).
39) Rad Onc academics with U Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, PA).
40) Rad Onc community academics with U of Iowa (Clinton, IA).
41) Rad Onc academics with U of Indiana (Indianapolis, IN).
42) Rad Onc employed with Northern Light Health (Presque Isle, ME).
43) Rad Onc employed with Vassar Brothers Medical Center (Poughkeepsie, NY).
44) Rad Onc academics with Medical College of Wisconsin (Milwaukee, WI).
45) Rad Onc academics with U Michigan (Ann Arbor, MI).
46) Rad Onc private practice with Tampa Oncology and Proton (Winter Haven, FL).
47) Rad Onc academics with University of Southern California (Los Angeles, CA).
48) Rad Onc academics with University of Florida (Gainesville, FL).
49) Rad Onc academics with University of Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, PA).
50) Rad Onc private practice at confidential (Los Angeles, CA).
51) Rad Onc employed with Marshfield Clinic Health System (Eau Claire, WI).
52) Rad Onc academics with Henry Ford Health (Detroit, MI).
53) Uro Rads with Summit Medical Group (Clifton, NJ).
54) Rad Onc employed with RWJBarabas Health (several locations in northern NJ).
55) Rad Onc academics with UC San Diego (several location in the San Diego area).
56) Rad Onc employed with New Mexico Cancer Center (Albuquerque, NM).
57) Rad Onc academics with Harvard (Boston, MA).
58) Rad Onc private practice with Valor Oncology (Chico, CA).
59) Rad Onc community academics with Stanford (Turlock, CA).
60) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Care at Meridian Park (Portland, OR).
61) Rad Onc private practice with West Michigan Cancer Center (Kalamazoo, MI).
62) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology (Silver Spring, MD).
63) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology (Blairsville, GA).
64) Rad Onc academics with University of Southern Florida (Tampa, FL).
65) Rad Onc employed with Kona Community Hospital (Kealakekua, HI).
66) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Consultants (Grants Pass, OR).
67) Rad Onc employed with CarleHealth (Urbana, IL).
68) Rad Onc employed with OSF HealthCare (Danville, IL).
69) Rad Onc private practice with Northeastern Radiation Oncology (Saratoga Springs, NY).
70) Rad Onc private practice with Tacoma Radiation Oncology Centers (Washington Peninsula, WA).
71) Rad Onc employed with North Texas Cancer Center (Denton, TX).
72) Rad Onc employed with Benefis Health System (Great Falls, MT).
73) Rad Onc employed with Kadlec Clinic Cancer Center (Kennewick, WA).
74) Rad Onc private practice with Associates in Radiation Medicine (Salisbury, MD).
75) Rad Onc community academics with Northwestern (McHenry, IL).

 

[Fpg1245]

Update of the current Astro Career Center Job posting on 09/01/2022 (done via Astro Member search):


1) Rad Onc academics with University of Nebraska (Omaha, NE).
2) Rad Onc community academics with University of Kentucky (Morehead, KY).
3) Rad Onc community academics with Cleveland Clinic (Vero Beach, FL).
4) Rad Onc academics with UC Davis (Sacramento, CA).
5) Yale academics with Yale (New Haven, CT).
6) Rad Onc private practice with Missouri Cancer Associates (Columbia, MO).
7) Rad Onc private practice with Anchorage and Valley Radiation Therapy (Anchorage, AK).
8) Rad Onc community academics with Thomas Jefferson (Cherry Hill, NJ).
9) Rad Onc academics with SUNY Upstate (Syracuse, NY).
10) Rad Onc academics with Beaumont (Royal Oak, MI).
11) Rad Onc employed with Saint Joseph Hospital (Bardstown, KY).
12) Rad Onc academics with Cleveland Clinic (Cleveland, OH).
13) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Associates (Appleton, WI).
14) Rad Onc employed with Barrow Neurological Institute (Phoenix, AZ).
15) Rad Onc private practice with Sand Lake Cancer Center (Orlando, FL).
16) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health Monroe Clinic (Monroe, WI).
17) Rad Onc employed with Essentia Health (Duluth, MN).
18) Rad Onc academics with Metro Health ie Case Western (Cleveland, OH).
19) Rad Onc academics with Thomas Jefferson (Philadelphia, PA).
20) Rad Onc academics with Standford (Palo Alto, CA).
21) Rad Onc academics with University of Pittsburgh (Pittsburgh, PA).
22) Rad Onc employed with Rochester Regional Health (Rochester, NY).
23) Rad Onc employed with University of New Mexico (Albuquerque, NM).
24) Rad Onc private practice with Piedmont Radiation Oncology (Winston Salem, NC).
25) Rad Onc private practice with Spectrum Healthcare Partners (Portland, ME).
26) Rad Onc employed with Centura Health (Colorado Springs, CO). Salary $30.00 to $283.02/hour.
27) Rad Onc academics with MDACC (Houston, TX).
28) Rad Onc employed with Essentia Health (Fargo, ND).
29) Rad Onc employed with Holy Family Memorial Medical Center (Manitowoc, WI).
30) Rad Onc employed with Avera Medical Group (Marshall, MN).
31) Rad Onc academics with NYU (New York, NY).
32) Rad Onc community academics with University of Michigan (Alma, MI).
33) Rad Onc private practice with Associated Medical Professionals (Syracuse, NY).
34) Rad Onc private practice with Pottstown Regional Radiation Oncology (Pottstown, PA).
35) Derm Rads employed with Riverchase Dermatology (Naples, FL).
36) Rad Onc academics with Columbia (New York, NY).
37) Rad Onc employed with VA (Houston, TX).
38) Rad Onc employed with Methodist Health System (Omaha, NE).
39) Rad Onc academics with U Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, PA).
40) Rad Onc community academics with U of Iowa (Clinton, IA).
41) Rad Onc academics with U of Indiana (Indianapolis, IN).
42) Rad Onc employed with Northern Light Health (Presque Isle, ME).
43) Rad Onc employed with Vassar Brothers Medical Center (Poughkeepsie, NY).
44) Rad Onc academics with Medical College of Wisconsin (Milwaukee, WI).
45) Rad Onc academics with U Michigan (Ann Arbor, MI).
46) Rad Onc private practice with Tampa Oncology and Proton (Winter Haven, FL).
47) Rad Onc academics with University of Southern California (Los Angeles, CA).
48) Rad Onc academics with University of Florida (Gainesville, FL).
49) Rad Onc academics with University of Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, PA).
50) Rad Onc private practice at confidential (Los Angeles, CA).
51) Rad Onc employed with Marshfield Clinic Health System (Eau Claire, WI).
52) Rad Onc academics with Henry Ford Health (Detroit, MI).
53) Uro Rads with Summit Medical Group (Clifton, NJ).
54) Rad Onc employed with RWJBarabas Health (several locations in northern NJ).
55) Rad Onc academics with UC San Diego (several location in the San Diego area).
56) Rad Onc employed with New Mexico Cancer Center (Albuquerque, NM).
57) Rad Onc academics with Harvard (Boston, MA).
58) Rad Onc private practice with Valor Oncology (Chico, CA).
59) Rad Onc community academics with Stanford (Turlock, CA).
60) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Care at Meridian Park (Portland, OR).
61) Rad Onc private practice with West Michigan Cancer Center (Kalamazoo, MI).
62) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology (Silver Spring, MD).
63) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology (Blairsville, GA).
64) Rad Onc academics with University of Southern Florida (Tampa, FL).
65) Rad Onc employed with Kona Community Hospital (Kealakekua, HI).
66) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Consultants (Grants Pass, OR).
67) Rad Onc employed with CarleHealth (Urbana, IL).
68) Rad Onc employed with OSF HealthCare (Danville, IL).
69) Rad Onc private practice with Northeastern Radiation Oncology (Saratoga Springs, NY).
70) Rad Onc private practice with Tacoma Radiation Oncology Centers (Washington Peninsula, WA).
71) Rad Onc employed with North Texas Cancer Center (Denton, TX).
72) Rad Onc employed with Benefis Health System (Great Falls, MT).
73) Rad Onc employed with Kadlec Clinic Cancer Center (Kennewick, WA).
74) Rad Onc private practice with Associates in Radiation Medicine (Salisbury, MD).
75) Rad Onc community academics with Northwestern (McHenry, IL).

Wtf is community academics?

As I’m reading this list my BP is just going up and up.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

The job board is so interesting right now.

It's really disappointing that there has been no official interest/attempts at accurately measuring the RadOnc workforce until recently. My personal/anecdotal observation is that there are A LOT of 60-something year old docs retiring in this decade (which is a national phenomenon, obviously).

It would have been great to have real numbers to look at. Oh well. As we all know, ASTRO couldn't pay attention to the health of the specialty due to antitrust concerns, but they can definitely collect salary/wage data and restrict its sharing to only a handful of individuals without a care in the world.

 

[TheWallnerus]

Wtf is community academics?

A euphemism to get people to consider jobs they otherwise wouldn’t

 

[deleted1116990]

The Kona job is paying low 500s. That will put a serious dent in your retirement saving with the insane COL and high taxes in HI. Would be fun for a little while though.

Edit: Also LOL at Centura's listed salary range to comply with CO law. I see they are still pulling this ****.

 

[thecarbonionangle]

The Kona job is paying low 500s. That's barely scraping by with the insane COL and high taxes in HI. Would be fun for a little while though.

Never been to HI but it does seem nice. Is it just demand supply, that many want to work there so they can pay less or what is the issue? I briefly looked at zillow and a house in HI is a few millions, simple house too. Nuts!
Prob not a bad gig like someone with a giant nest egg to go and semi retire

 

[deleted1116990]

Wtf is community academics?

It's where you drive an hour out to a small town near a university where you spend 5 days a week treating patients and send about half your collections back to the university to promote the academic mission and supplement the main site academics who are out of clinic multiple days a week. But the good news is you get to be a part of all of the academic meetings, system wide chart rounds, and don't have to worry about figuring out how to practice.

It's really the best of both worlds. I'm surprised the 230k community academics job in rural Iowa hasn't filled yet.

 

[communitydoc13]

The job board is so interesting right now.

It's really disappointing that there has been no official interest/attempts at accurately measuring the RadOnc workforce until recently. My personal/anecdotal observation is that there are A LOT of 60-something year old docs retiring in this decade (which is a national phenomenon, obviously).

It would have been great to have real numbers to look at. Oh well. As we all know, ASTRO couldn't pay attention to the health of the specialty due to antitrust concerns, but they can definitely collect salary/wage data and restrict its sharing to only a handful of individuals without a care in the world.

The job market is bizarre in all US society.

Some things I'm running into.

Not only is medonc market prohibitive for recruiting but more and more docs are opting for part time gigs, looking to work 1-2 weeks a month at multiple sites and make bank. No interest in establishing a practice within an institution.

This is also happening for physicists and RTTs. Seems like less of a goal to find a "settled position" and a willingness to do well by working part time somewhere where you don't live. RTT recently informed me that she made double a staff position working 40 weeks/year doing locums.

Extremely hard to fill front office positions.

Everybody looking for virtual work. Family member in medicine having very hard time recruiting for full time FP or IM docs, but has had over 100 apps for a single virtual position.

It is almost like there is an inexorable and rapid shift to a virtual work expectation and we will have to find solutions to functionally staff many positions in medicine.

There is an eff-load of money in this society, and I think we all know people who have had enough to retire for some time but their values prohibited it. More of these people are leaving workforce altogether in the wake of Covid. It was some kind of cultural watershed type moment.

Radonc job market the worst for docs. Very little room for virtual work (maybe we can change that) and massive supply relative to need compared to other specialists. Still, I'm pretty sure our job market is better this year than last and may improve incrementally over next couple years. This does not mean that we will be paid more.

 

[Doctorer]

It's where you drive an hour out to a small town near a university where you spend 5 days a week treating patients and send about half your collections back to the university to promote the academic mission and supplement the main site academics who are out of clinic multiple days a week. But the good news is you get to be a part of all of the academic meetings, system wide chart rounds, and don't have to worry about figuring out how to practice.

It's really the best of both worlds. I'm surprised the 230k community academics job in rural Iowa hasn't filled yet.

Don’t forget having to beg the mothership for vacation coverage.

Honestly I don’t understand why people debase themselves taking jobs like this. Move. It’ll be ok. Plenty of people have done it.

 

[fiji128]

Update of the current Astro Career Center Job posting on 11/09/2022 (done via Astro Member search):


1) Rad Onc employed with Rochester Regional Health (Rochester, NY).
2) Rad Onc community academics with University of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
3) Rad Onc employed with New York Proton Center (New York, NY). Salary not listed as required by local law.
4) Uro Rads employed with Urology Centers of Alabama (Homewood, AL).
5) Rad Onc academics with University of Rochester (Rochester, NY).
6) Rad Onc employed with Bassett Healthcare Network (Oneonta, NY).
7) Rad Onc private practice with Michiana Hematology Oncology (Indiana, IN).
8) Rad Onc employed with Essentia Health (Fargo, ND).
9) Rad Onc private practice with Sand Lake Cancer Center (Orlando, FL).
10) Rad Onc academics with University of New Mexico (Albuquerque, NM).
11) Rad Onc community academics with Cleveland Clinic (Vero Beach, FL).
12) Rad Onc employed with Baptist Health Medical Group (Corbin, KY).
13) Rad Onc private practice with Cancer Care of Western New York (Buffalo, NY).
14) Rad Onc academics with Emory (Atlanta, GA).
15) Rad Onc employed with UMass Memorial Healthcare (Boston, MA).
16) Rad Onc employed with Centura Health (Longmount, CO) Salary $30 to $283/hour.
17) Rad Onc academics with University of Maryland Proton Center (Baltimore, MD).
18) Rad Onc community academics with Jefferson Health (Cherry Hill, NJ).
19) Rad Onc private practice with partnership opportunity with Radiation Oncology Affiliates of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
20) Rad Onc with brachytherapy emphasis employed AdventHealth (Kansas City, MO).
21) Rad Onc academics with Stony Brook University (Stony Brook, NY).
22) Rad Onc private practice with Associated Medical Professionals (Syracuse, NY).
23) Rad Onc private practice group (Tulsa, OK).
24) Rad Onc academics with Beaumont Health (Royal Oak, MI).
25) Rad Onc private practice with Bozeman Radiation Oncology (Bozeman, MT).
26) Rad Onc private practice with Northeast Radiation Oncology (Bangor, ME).
27) Rad Onc employed with Mercy One Medical Center (Des Moines, IA).
28) Rad Onc community academics with Cleveland Clinic (Canton, OH).
29) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Associates (Appleton, WI).
30) Rad Onc academics with Baylor Scott and White Health (Temple, TX).
31) Rad Onc employed with Southern California Permanente Medical Group at several locations (Bellflower, Ontario, and Orange County, CA).
32) Rad Onc academics with Boston University (Boston, MA).
33) Rad Onc employed with Genesis Care (Naples, FL).
34) Rad Onc employed with Genesis Care (Oklahoma City, OK).
35) Rad Onc employed with Virginia Mason Franciscan Health (Seattle, WA).
36) Rad Onc employed with Baptist Health Medical Group (Louisville, KY).
37) Rad Onc academics with Virginia Commonwealth University (Richmond, VA).
38) Rad Onc community academics with Oregon Health Science (Rosebury, OR).
39) Rad Onc employed with Essentia Health (Duluth, MN).
40) Rad Onc employed with Kadlec Clinic Cancer Center (Kennewick, WA).
41) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health Monroe Clinic (Monroe, WI).
42) Rad Onc academics at University of Florida Proton Center (Jacksonville, FL).
43) Rad Onc community academics at University of Minnesota (Hibbing, MN).
44) Rad Onc employed with RWJ Barnabas Health (Belleville, NJ).
45) Rad Onc private practice part time partnership track (Charlottesville, VA).
46) Rad Onc private practice with Collaborative Radiation Oncology (Flint, MI).
47) Rad Onc private practice with Palmetto Radiation Oncology (Florence, SC).
48) Rad onc employed with UCHealth Cancer Care (Fort Collins, CO).
49) Rad Onc employed with Methodist Health (Omaha, NE).
50) Rad Onc community academics at the VA via University of Washington (Seattle, WA).
51) Rad Onc employed by Tufts Medical Center (Framingham, MA).
52) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Silver Springs, MD).
53) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Blairsville, GA).
54) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Columbia, MO).
55) Rad Onc private practice with partnership Multi Specialty Group (Springfield, IL).
56) Rad Onc employed Vassar Brothers Medical Center (Poughkeepsie, NY).
57) Rad Onc employed with VA, 50 to 55 days PTO, vested federal pension after 5 years (Shreveport, LA) salary $250 to $400k.
58) Rad Onc employed with Norwalk Hospital (Norwalk, CT).
59) Rad Onc private practice with Grupo Radioterapia del Norte (San Juan, Puerto Rico) Salary $300 to $400k.
60) Rad Onc employed with Unity Point Health (Des Moines, Iowa).
61) Rad Onc community academics with Duke (Cary, NC).
62) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health Medical Group (St. Louis, MO).
63) Rad Onc employed with Morristown Hamblen Health System (Morristown, TN).
64) Rad Onc academics with SUNY Upstate (Syracuse, NY).
65) Rad Onc private practice with Northeastern Rad Onc (Saratoga Springs, NY).
66) Rad Onc private practice with New Mexico Cancer Center (Albuquerque, NM).
67) Rad Onc private practice not partnership track with Memorial Radiation Oncology Medical Group (Laguna Hills, CA).
68) Rad Onc private practice with Cancer Care Group (Indianapolis, IN).
69) Rad Onc employed with Marshfield Clinic (Eau Claire, WI).
70) Rad Onc academics with UPenn (Philadelphia, PA).
71) Rad Onc academics with UAB (Birmingham, AL).
72) Rad Onc private practice with partnership track Radiation Oncology Consultants (Grants Pass, OR).
73) Rad Onc academics with Indiana University (Indianapolis, IN).
74) Rad Onc academics with Augusta University (Augusta, GA).
74) Rad Onc community academics with Northwestern University (Warrenville, Geneva, Dekalb, IL).

 

[Gfunk6]

The Marshfield Clinic alone is probably responsible for 10% of the job postings on ASTRO.

 

[Fpg1245]

Update of the current Astro Career Center Job posting on 11/09/2022 (done via Astro Member search):


1) Rad Onc employed with Rochester Regional Health (Rochester, NY).
2) Rad Onc community academics with University of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
3) Rad Onc employed with New York Proton Center (New York, NY). Salary not listed as required by local law.
4) Uro Rads employed with Urology Centers of Alabama (Homewood, AL).
5) Rad Onc academics with University of Rochester (Rochester, NY).
6) Rad Onc employed with Bassett Healthcare Network (Oneonta, NY).
7) Rad Onc private practice with Michiana Hematology Oncology (Indiana, IN).
8) Rad Onc employed with Essentia Health (Fargo, ND).
9) Rad Onc private practice with Sand Lake Cancer Center (Orlando, FL).
10) Rad Onc academics with University of New Mexico (Albuquerque, NM).
11) Rad Onc community academics with Cleveland Clinic (Vero Beach, FL).
12) Rad Onc employed with Baptist Health Medical Group (Corbin, KY).
13) Rad Onc private practice with Cancer Care of Western New York (Buffalo, NY).
14) Rad Onc academics with Emory (Atlanta, GA).
15) Rad Onc employed with UMass Memorial Healthcare (Boston, MA).
16) Rad Onc employed with Centura Health (Longmount, CO) Salary $30 to $283/hour.
17) Rad Onc academics with University of Maryland Proton Center (Baltimore, MD).
18) Rad Onc community academics with Jefferson Health (Cherry Hill, NJ).
19) Rad Onc private practice with partnership opportunity with Radiation Oncology Affiliates of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
20) Rad Onc with brachytherapy emphasis employed AdventHealth (Kansas City, MO).
21) Rad Onc academics with Stony Brook University (Stony Brook, NY).
22) Rad Onc private practice with Associated Medical Professionals (Syracuse, NY).
23) Rad Onc private practice group (Tulsa, OK).
24) Rad Onc academics with Beaumont Health (Royal Oak, MI).
25) Rad Onc private practice with Bozeman Radiation Oncology (Bozeman, MT).
26) Rad Onc private practice with Northeast Radiation Oncology (Bangor, ME).
27) Rad Onc employed with Mercy One Medical Center (Des Moines, IA).
28) Rad Onc community academics with Cleveland Clinic (Canton, OH).
29) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Associates (Appleton, WI).
30) Rad Onc academics with Baylor Scott and White Health (Temple, TX).
31) Rad Onc employed with Southern California Permanente Medical Group at several locations (Bellflower, Ontario, and Orange County, CA).
32) Rad Onc academics with Boston University (Boston, MA).
33) Rad Onc employed with Genesis Care (Naples, FL).
34) Rad Onc employed with Genesis Care (Oklahoma City, OK).
35) Rad Onc employed with Virginia Mason Franciscan Health (Seattle, WA).
36) Rad Onc employed with Baptist Health Medical Group (Louisville, KY).
37) Rad Onc academics with Virginia Commonwealth University (Richmond, VA).
38) Rad Onc community academics with Oregon Health Science (Rosebury, OR).
39) Rad Onc employed with Essentia Health (Duluth, MN).
40) Rad Onc employed with Kadlec Clinic Cancer Center (Kennewick, WA).
41) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health Monroe Clinic (Monroe, WI).
42) Rad Onc academics at University of Florida Proton Center (Jacksonville, FL).
43) Rad Onc community academics at University of Minnesota (Hibbing, MN).
44) Rad Onc employed with RWJ Barnabas Health (Belleville, NJ).
45) Rad Onc private practice part time partnership track (Charlottesville, VA).
46) Rad Onc private practice with Collaborative Radiation Oncology (Flint, MI).
47) Rad Onc private practice with Palmetto Radiation Oncology (Florence, SC).
48) Rad onc employed with UCHealth Cancer Care (Fort Collins, CO).
49) Rad Onc employed with Methodist Health (Omaha, NE).
50) Rad Onc community academics at the VA via University of Washington (Seattle, WA).
51) Rad Onc employed by Tufts Medical Center (Framingham, MA).
52) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Silver Springs, MD).
53) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Blairsville, GA).
54) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Columbia, MO).
55) Rad Onc private practice with partnership Multi Specialty Group (Springfield, IL).
56) Rad Onc employed Vassar Brothers Medical Center (Poughkeepsie, NY).
57) Rad Onc employed with VA, 50 to 55 days PTO, vested federal pension after 5 years (Shreveport, LA) salary $250 to $400k.
58) Rad Onc employed with Norwalk Hospital (Norwalk, CT).
59) Rad Onc private practice with Grupo Radioterapia del Norte (San Juan, Puerto Rico) Salary $300 to $400k.
60) Rad Onc employed with Unity Point Health (Des Moines, Iowa).
61) Rad Onc community academics with Duke (Cary, NC).
62) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health Medical Group (St. Louis, MO).
63) Rad Onc employed with Morristown Hamblen Health System (Morristown, TN).
64) Rad Onc academics with SUNY Upstate (Syracuse, NY).
65) Rad Onc private practice with Northeastern Rad Onc (Saratoga Springs, NY).
66) Rad Onc private practice with New Mexico Cancer Center (Albuquerque, NM).
67) Rad Onc private practice not partnership track with Memorial Radiation Oncology Medical Group (Laguna Hills, CA).
68) Rad Onc private practice with Cancer Care Group (Indianapolis, IN).
69) Rad Onc employed with Marshfield Clinic (Eau Claire, WI).
70) Rad Onc academics with UPenn (Philadelphia, PA).
71) Rad Onc academics with UAB (Birmingham, AL).
72) Rad Onc private practice with partnership track Radiation Oncology Consultants (Grants Pass, OR).
73) Rad Onc academics with Indiana University (Indianapolis, IN).
74) Rad Onc academics with Augusta University (Augusta, GA).
74) Rad Onc community academics with Northwestern University (Warrenville, Geneva, Dekalb, IL).

Where are the secret jobs? Or does astro charge more for those?

 

[medgator]

The Marshfield Clinic alone is probably responsible for 10% of the job postings on ASTRO.

I thought that was Central Care Salina KS

 

[radoncftw]

I thought that was Central Care Salina KS

fun fact they are no longer in salina KS. That is now a hospital employed gig. I spoke with the rad onc there when I interviewed with that practice . very nice guy

 

[fiji128]

Salina KS hasn't posted in years maybe even more then 5 years?

 

[medgator]

Salina KS hasn't posted in years maybe even more then 5 years?

It was prolific when they did, kinda like Rhinelander

 

[fiji128]

The above job list is probably the best that has been posted thus far. Some very legit sounding private practice gigs, which you used to never see. Tons of unremarkable "your are a cog in the wheel" clinical academic and employed positions too. Northwestern has been gobbling up some very far out exurb places that they weren't at before Geneva, Dekalb (previously posted also McHenry) IL.

Overall good market for rad onc compared to the last 5 to 10 years but still among the worst in medicine. I've ended up on mailing list for diagnostic rads and med onc, those seems to be on fire with companies posting earning potentials approaching $1 mil a year with tons of flexibility.

 

[Ubba]

Update of the current Astro Career Center Job posting on 11/09/2022 (done via Astro Member search):


1) Rad Onc employed with Rochester Regional Health (Rochester, NY).
2) Rad Onc community academics with University of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
3) Rad Onc employed with New York Proton Center (New York, NY). Salary not listed as required by local law.
4) Uro Rads employed with Urology Centers of Alabama (Homewood, AL).
5) Rad Onc academics with University of Rochester (Rochester, NY).
6) Rad Onc employed with Bassett Healthcare Network (Oneonta, NY).
7) Rad Onc private practice with Michiana Hematology Oncology (Indiana, IN).
8) Rad Onc employed with Essentia Health (Fargo, ND).
9) Rad Onc private practice with Sand Lake Cancer Center (Orlando, FL).
10) Rad Onc academics with University of New Mexico (Albuquerque, NM).
11) Rad Onc community academics with Cleveland Clinic (Vero Beach, FL).
12) Rad Onc employed with Baptist Health Medical Group (Corbin, KY).
13) Rad Onc private practice with Cancer Care of Western New York (Buffalo, NY).
14) Rad Onc academics with Emory (Atlanta, GA).
15) Rad Onc employed with UMass Memorial Healthcare (Boston, MA).
16) Rad Onc employed with Centura Health (Longmount, CO) Salary $30 to $283/hour.
17) Rad Onc academics with University of Maryland Proton Center (Baltimore, MD).
18) Rad Onc community academics with Jefferson Health (Cherry Hill, NJ).
19) Rad Onc private practice with partnership opportunity with Radiation Oncology Affiliates of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
20) Rad Onc with brachytherapy emphasis employed AdventHealth (Kansas City, MO).
21) Rad Onc academics with Stony Brook University (Stony Brook, NY).
22) Rad Onc private practice with Associated Medical Professionals (Syracuse, NY).
23) Rad Onc private practice group (Tulsa, OK).
24) Rad Onc academics with Beaumont Health (Royal Oak, MI).
25) Rad Onc private practice with Bozeman Radiation Oncology (Bozeman, MT).
26) Rad Onc private practice with Northeast Radiation Oncology (Bangor, ME).
27) Rad Onc employed with Mercy One Medical Center (Des Moines, IA).
28) Rad Onc community academics with Cleveland Clinic (Canton, OH).
29) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Associates (Appleton, WI).
30) Rad Onc academics with Baylor Scott and White Health (Temple, TX).
31) Rad Onc employed with Southern California Permanente Medical Group at several locations (Bellflower, Ontario, and Orange County, CA).
32) Rad Onc academics with Boston University (Boston, MA).
33) Rad Onc employed with Genesis Care (Naples, FL).
34) Rad Onc employed with Genesis Care (Oklahoma City, OK).
35) Rad Onc employed with Virginia Mason Franciscan Health (Seattle, WA).
36) Rad Onc employed with Baptist Health Medical Group (Louisville, KY).
37) Rad Onc academics with Virginia Commonwealth University (Richmond, VA).
38) Rad Onc community academics with Oregon Health Science (Rosebury, OR).
39) Rad Onc employed with Essentia Health (Duluth, MN).
40) Rad Onc employed with Kadlec Clinic Cancer Center (Kennewick, WA).
41) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health Monroe Clinic (Monroe, WI).
42) Rad Onc academics at University of Florida Proton Center (Jacksonville, FL).
43) Rad Onc community academics at University of Minnesota (Hibbing, MN).
44) Rad Onc employed with RWJ Barnabas Health (Belleville, NJ).
45) Rad Onc private practice part time partnership track (Charlottesville, VA).
46) Rad Onc private practice with Collaborative Radiation Oncology (Flint, MI).
47) Rad Onc private practice with Palmetto Radiation Oncology (Florence, SC).
48) Rad onc employed with UCHealth Cancer Care (Fort Collins, CO).
49) Rad Onc employed with Methodist Health (Omaha, NE).
50) Rad Onc community academics at the VA via University of Washington (Seattle, WA).
51) Rad Onc employed by Tufts Medical Center (Framingham, MA).
52) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Silver Springs, MD).
53) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Blairsville, GA).
54) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Columbia, MO).
55) Rad Onc private practice with partnership Multi Specialty Group (Springfield, IL).
56) Rad Onc employed Vassar Brothers Medical Center (Poughkeepsie, NY).
57) Rad Onc employed with VA, 50 to 55 days PTO, vested federal pension after 5 years (Shreveport, LA) salary $250 to $400k.
58) Rad Onc employed with Norwalk Hospital (Norwalk, CT).
59) Rad Onc private practice with Grupo Radioterapia del Norte (San Juan, Puerto Rico) Salary $300 to $400k.
60) Rad Onc employed with Unity Point Health (Des Moines, Iowa).
61) Rad Onc community academics with Duke (Cary, NC).
62) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health Medical Group (St. Louis, MO).
63) Rad Onc employed with Morristown Hamblen Health System (Morristown, TN).
64) Rad Onc academics with SUNY Upstate (Syracuse, NY).
65) Rad Onc private practice with Northeastern Rad Onc (Saratoga Springs, NY).
66) Rad Onc private practice with New Mexico Cancer Center (Albuquerque, NM).
67) Rad Onc private practice not partnership track with Memorial Radiation Oncology Medical Group (Laguna Hills, CA).
68) Rad Onc private practice with Cancer Care Group (Indianapolis, IN).
69) Rad Onc employed with Marshfield Clinic (Eau Claire, WI).
70) Rad Onc academics with UPenn (Philadelphia, PA).
71) Rad Onc academics with UAB (Birmingham, AL).
72) Rad Onc private practice with partnership track Radiation Oncology Consultants (Grants Pass, OR).
73) Rad Onc academics with Indiana University (Indianapolis, IN).
74) Rad Onc academics with Augusta University (Augusta, GA).
74) Rad Onc community academics with Northwestern University (Warrenville, Geneva, Dekalb, IL).

This list looks great. I'd be applying as an American MD if I were coming out of med school. Not sure why I keep hearing that the RO market is bad.

And I've never seen a H/O job offering anything close to 7 figures. There's a 700k job in Jackson, WY, but that is frankly middle class income for a city that expensive.

 

[deleted1116990]

This list looks great. I'd be applying as an American MD if I were coming out of med school. Not sure why I keep hearing that the RO market is bad.

No it doesn't. Most of the jobs are employed (no access to TC or even PC, just salary and maybe a paltry RVU "bonus") rural and/or in the Midwest or Southeast (the areas most rad oncs don't want to go). They all advertise 5 day weeks and average benefits and PTO. Compare this to other fields where jobs are routinely posted with ads saying things like "4 day workweek" "150k sign on bonus" "50 days PTO" "profit sharing" etc. Rad onc ads all still come with the generic "competitive compensation and time off" which means MGMA median or less and 4-6 weeks PTO or less.

And I've never seen a H/O job offering anything close to 7 figures.

Private practice HO earns well above 1M. Hospital employed is not going to base this high, but if they have a fair bonus structure, they will crack that number. Hell, you can make 1M easy just doing locums right now in med onc as they pay 5k/day. That's 40 weeks a year to make 7 figures and 3 months of vaca. Other in demand fields, same story.

There's a 700k job in Jackson, WY, but that is frankly middle class income for a city that expensive.

700k is middle class in Jackson, WY? What the hell are you talking about. Have you been there? It is not a city. No, you're not going to buy a mansion next to a Hollywood A-lister, but there is an entire population of working people there. Also, WY has no state income tax and is probably the overall lowest COL state in the country. I would move to Jackson in a second for 700k, or even 500k. Not an option for rad onc. Locations that are anywhere close to affluent mountain towns are "desirable" in our field as we have re-defined that word. Undesirable in rad onc means nothing fancy within a 7 hour driving distance. Great plains, upper midwest, mississippi/alabama, etc. Even Laramie, WY is going to have no problem filling because it's a short hop to Fort Collins and Denver. Kearney, NE and Marshfield, WI, OTOH...

 

[medgator]

No it doesn't. Most of the jobs are employed (no access to TC or even PC, just salary and maybe a paltry RVU "bonus") rural and/or in the Midwest or Southeast (the areas most rad oncs don't want to go). They all advertise 5 day weeks and average benefits and PTO. Compare this to other fields where jobs are routinely posted with ads saying things like "4 day workweek" "150k sign on bonus" "50 days PTO" "profit sharing" etc. Rad onc ads all still come with the generic "competitive compensation and time off" which means MGMA median or less and 4-6 weeks PTO or less.

Private practice HO earns well above 1M. Hospital employed is not going to base this high, but if they have a fair bonus structure, they will crack that number. Hell, you can make 1M easy just doing locums right now in med onc as they pay 5k/day. That's 40 weeks a year to make 7 figures and 3 months of vaca. Other in demand fields, same story.

700k is middle class in Jackson, WY? What the hell are you talking about. Have you been there? It is not a city. No, you're not going to buy a mansion next to a Hollywood A-lister, but there is an entire population of working people there. Also, WY has no state income tax and is probably the overall lowest COL state in the country. I would move to Jackson in a second for 700k, or even 500k. Not an option for rad onc. Locations that are anywhere close to affluent mountain towns are "desirable" in our field as we have re-defined that word. Undesirable in rad onc means nothing fancy within a 7 hour driving distance. Great plains, upper midwest, mississippi/alabama, etc. Even Laramie, WY is going to have no problem filling because it's a short hop to Fort Collins and Denver. Kearney, NE and Marshfield, WI, OTOH...

100% accurate, currently. In fact I'm aware of a practice in the sunbelt looking to hire one now

 

[sirspamalot]

You want to get paid more, be prepared to live in non-metro non-desirable locations. Most of the publicly listed jobs suck. An alternate route is to start as a locums and then, thru your skills and charm, get into a PSA perm agreement with included vacation coverage 4 weeks min plus holidays. Hospital locations are best (General Supervision) which allow greater flexibility.

 

[Fpg1245]

You want to get paid more, be prepared to live in non-metro non-desirable locations. Most of the publicly listed jobs suck. An alternate route is to start as a locums and then, thru your skills and charm, get into a PSA perm agreement with included vacation coverage 4 weeks min plus holidays. Hospital locations are best (General Supervision) which allow greater flexibility.

Literally if you even have a shot at getting to a desireable city within 2 hours forget it your salary will drop by 45% and admin all of sudden thinks they own you. It’s incredible.

I’m not even sure other specialties experience such a precipitous drop as we do. It’s insane.

 

[sirspamalot]

Thats why being able to teleport yourself anywhere becomes so vital.. your family doesn't move, and you have leverage to work anywhere on demand. Why more docs don't do this, I don't know. That said, living away from home 4 to 5 days a week isn't for everyone.

 

[fiji128]

This list looks great. I'd be applying as an American MD if I were coming out of med school. Not sure why I keep hearing that the RO market is bad.

And I've never seen a H/O job offering anything close to 7 figures. There's a 700k job in Jackson, WY, but that is frankly middle class income for a city that expensive.

Looking at just this one list and saying the job market looks great and folks should apply is like a prostate patient asking if he is cured based off of his first 6 month post treatment psa.

Many/most of the jobs are positions that are posted month after month but somehow never fill. University of Pennsylavnia post every month for years on end for some reason. A lot of the places that are affiliated with academic medical centers and post and never seem to fill are likely low paying, low autonomy but high production types of situations. There are more legit looking private practice gigs then I can recall ever posting but a lot of those you are not likely to ever look at your CV unless you are local or have some connection to the place. Also, I will add, job #67 looks like a decent pp job but I think that is the notorious churn and burn Irvine CA job just relabeled. One thing that I have notice anything that looks good is usually only posted only once or twice before its gone. Another thing that I do not like seeing is when a place like Northwestern (a recent residency expander) post saying they are hiring in place 45 to 100 miles plus from their main campus such as Geneva, Dekalb, McHenry IL. These places, where NU previously had no foot print, are previous private practice type positions being flipped to very high cost employed community "academic" satellite centers. So there is lots to consider with these posts.

But readers and prospective applicants are free to draw whatever conclusions they want from these postings. Just trying to provide some real world data beyond just talking/posting.

 

[Ubba]

No it doesn't. Most of the jobs are employed (no access to TC or even PC, just salary and maybe a paltry RVU "bonus") rural and/or in the Midwest or Southeast (the areas most rad oncs don't want to go). They all advertise 5 day weeks and average benefits and PTO. Compare this to other fields where jobs are routinely posted with ads saying things like "4 day workweek" "150k sign on bonus" "50 days PTO" "profit sharing" etc. Rad onc ads all still come with the generic "competitive compensation and time off" which means MGMA median or less and 4-6 weeks PTO or less.

Private practice HO earns well above 1M. Hospital employed is not going to base this high, but if they have a fair bonus structure, they will crack that number. Hell, you can make 1M easy just doing locums right now in med onc as they pay 5k/day. That's 40 weeks a year to make 7 figures and 3 months of vaca. Other in demand fields, same story.

700k is middle class in Jackson, WY? What the hell are you talking about. Have you been there? It is not a city. No, you're not going to buy a mansion next to a Hollywood A-lister, but there is an entire population of working people there. Also, WY has no state income tax and is probably the overall lowest COL state in the country. I would move to Jackson in a second for 700k, or even 500k. Not an option for rad onc. Locations that are anywhere close to affluent mountain towns are "desirable" in our field as we have re-defined that word. Undesirable in rad onc means nothing fancy within a 7 hour driving distance. Great plains, upper midwest, mississippi/alabama, etc. Even Laramie, WY is going to have no problem filling because it's a short hop to Fort Collins and Denver. Kearney, NE and Marshfield, WI, OTOH...

1. The majority of listed H/O jobs are also employed by hospitals or health systems, even out in flyover country. I also recommend that you check out PracticeLink, NEJM Onc Career Center, etc. The vast majority say nothing about 4-day weeks. Some do say 4.5-day weeks, but functionally, at that point, it's the same in terms of lifestyle as a full week. And 50 days PTO? Certainly not Med Onc. Maybe you're thinking of diagnostic rads. Again, almost all the listed MO jobs comes with those generic taglines and disclaimers. The ones that do mention income potential are usually in the range of 450-550k. Half of the numbers to which you refer.

2. What are you using as a reference? The only HOs who earn that much are seeing 30+ pts/day, 5 days/week. And the only locums numbers I can find are offering somewhere in the range of 3.5k/day, and that's in places like Anchorage. I believe in a 40-week-a-year, 7-figure, 3-vaca-month HO job as much as I do in the Loch Ness monster.

3. I'd actually forgotten about the lack of state income tax for a second there, but where do you plan on living as an attending in JH? Yeah, you can pay 1 mill for a 1B/1bath or some s****y little house, I guess. I have no idea how/where the blue-collar people live. The affordable options on Zillow and Realtor. com are few and far between.

Anyway, I see some solid locations (other factors aside) on the list above.

Rochester, NY
Baltimore, MD
New York, NY
Rochester, NY
Orlando, FL
Buffalo, NY
Atlanta, GA
Boston, MA
Longmount, CO
Baltimore, MD
Cherry Hill, NJ
private practice with partnership opportunity with Radiation Oncology Affiliates of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
Royal Oak, MI
Bangor, ME
Boston, MA
Seattle, WA
Louisville, KY
Richmond, VA
Jacksonville, FL
Belleville, NJ
Charlottesville, VA
Fort Collins, CO
Omaha, NE
Seattle, WA
Framingham, MA
52) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Silver Springs, MD).
58) Rad Onc employed with Norwalk Hospital (Norwalk, CT).
62) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health Medical Group (St. Louis, MO).
68) Rad Onc private practice with Cancer Care Group (Indianapolis, IN).
69) Rad Onc employed with Marshfield Clinic (Eau Claire, WI).
70) Rad Onc academics with UPenn (Philadelphia, PA).

 

[deleted1116990]

1. The majority of listed H/O jobs are also employed by hospitals or health systems, even out in flyover country. I also recommend that you check out PracticeLink, NEJM Onc Career Center, etc. The vast majority say nothing about 4-day weeks. Some do say 4.5-day weeks, but functionally, at that point, it's the same in terms of lifestyle as a full week. And 50 days PTO? Certainly not Med Onc. Maybe you're thinking of diagnostic rads. Again, almost all the listed MO jobs comes with those generic taglines and disclaimers. The ones that do mention income potential are usually in the range of 450-550k. Half of the numbers to which you refer.

2. What are you using as a reference? The only HOs who earn that much are seeing 30+ pts/day, 5 days/week. And the only locums numbers I can find are offering somewhere in the range of 3.5k/day, and that's in places like Anchorage. I believe in a 40-week-a-year, 7-figure, 3-vaca-month HO job as much as I do in the Loch Ness monster.

3. I'd actually forgotten about the lack of state income tax for a second there, but where do you plan on living as an attending in JH? Yeah, you can pay 1 mill for a 1B/1bath or some s****y little house, I guess. I have no idea how/where the blue-collar people live. The affordable options on Zillow and Realtor. com are few and far between.

Anyway, I see some solid locations (other factors aside) on the list above.

Rochester, NY
Baltimore, MD
New York, NY
Rochester, NY
Orlando, FL
Buffalo, NY
Atlanta, GA
Boston, MA
Longmount, CO
Baltimore, MD
Cherry Hill, NJ
private practice with partnership opportunity with Radiation Oncology Affiliates of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
Royal Oak, MI
Bangor, ME
Boston, MA
Seattle, WA
Louisville, KY
Richmond, VA
Jacksonville, FL
Belleville, NJ
Charlottesville, VA
Fort Collins, CO
Omaha, NE
Seattle, WA
Framingham, MA
52) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Silver Springs, MD).
58) Rad Onc employed with Norwalk Hospital (Norwalk, CT).
62) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health Medical Group (St. Louis, MO).
68) Rad Onc private practice with Cancer Care Group (Indianapolis, IN).
69) Rad Onc employed with Marshfield Clinic (Eau Claire, WI).
70) Rad Onc academics with UPenn (Philadelphia, PA).

1) I certainly know med oncs stuck in hospital employed jobs in the 500-600 range unable to bonus despite being extremely busy. But they work 4 days a week. Rad onc is not unique in being financially exploited by hospitals.

2) My source for the PP med onc numbers comes directly from the ones I work with. It's pretty normal in most specialties to earn double in PP when you take on the risk of ownership, but in med onc it's more like triple. They are indeed extremely busy. ALso, the locums rates for med onc are off the chart. Literally over 5k in some places. That really tells you all you need to know. Why med oncs are sitting in unhappy 500k salaried hospital jobs is beyond me. They have so much negoiating power in this market. We don't. The advertised rate, as always is lower than what they actually pay. Rad onc advertises 1800 and pays 2500 if you're lucky. Med onc advertises 3000 and pays 5000. Personally know one doing it for 5200. Non-desirable impossible-to-recruit locations obviously, but this is why you do locums. Go where the money is.

3) If the only acceptable way for you to live is in a 5000 sq ft single family house you own, then yeah maybe you need to look an Cincinnati or Pittsburgh. But Jackson is far from the only place in America where home ownership of any kind has become restricted to the ultra-wealthy pricing even specialist physicians out. So you rent. Living in Jackson comes with other perks than HOA meetings and being responsible for replacing your own roof when it leaks.

Med onc is a sweet field to be in right now, sorry it is not amazing for you, I really am, since I know so many are just crushing it in that field.

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

This list looks great. I'd be applying as an American MD if I were coming out of med school. Not sure why I keep hearing that the RO market is bad.

And I've never seen a H/O job offering anything close to 7 figures. There's a 700k job in Jackson, WY, but that is frankly middle class income for a city that expensive.

You're a first year HemeOnc fellow, yes?

The information asymmetry between the independent practice/employed market and the training/student cohort is insane. Worse, each hospital and/or health system is siloed and secretive, and it's impossible to get an accurate gauge until/unless you're actually working the job or have close friends in those jobs.

All job postings should look great. Who's going to write even a lukewarm "wanted" ad? No one.

Simultaneously, you're almost never going to know what kind of money someone is really making. It certainly won't be posted in a job ad. Some version of salary/comp will get posted, but it's very unlikely to be the full truth.

I know Family Med docs pulling $500-$600k. I know someone who just started a HemeOnc job with total comp around 7 figures (base+production bonus, but their base was more than what I make in RadOnc).

Honestly, it was only after I was out in the absolute LAWLESS WILD WEST of independent practice did I come to appreciate how much smoke and mirrors and BS is out there.

You'll never see a 7 figure HemeOnc posting...because they're only posting base, not production bonus or total comp.

 

[communitydoc13]

And the only locums numbers I can find are offering somewhere in the range of 3.5k/day

I'm involved in recruiting medoncs for my community hospital in a coastal region. You never really know what the doc is getting, but the locums we have interviewed have agency prices upwards of 5K/day (5.8k as last quote with living expenses covered) whereas these numbers were in the low 3K range a couple years ago. This could change in either direction rapidly.

Locums may be a good lifestyle for the right individual, but it is definitely not high value from a hospital perspective, and a mixed workforce with locums and employed can lead to a lot of dysfunction.

I have spoken to multiple employed HO within the past year who are leaving their employed jobs for locums opportunities or looking to start afresh in a hot market. They almost all want smaller panels, less work days and less call than has been traditional for community practice. It has led to an absolute crises in care for centers not in the most desirable areas (by which I mean major and diverse metro areas).

Docs often do not know what their colleagues are making, and in this market, the disparity can be shocking, even within a practice. It is much easier to get hired high than to get your salary raised 60%. This is leading to unsustainable behavior and expectations all around.

HO are out there leveraging this market, but there will be a big downside long term. Exempting our flying colleague, locums alone is not a great lifestyle for most folks and a world full of just locums docs would provide poor care. (Not saying you can't be a great doc and a locums, just saying that you need continuity of care for the best care to occur.) Smaller centers will close, more consolidation will occur and management will think creatively to change the role of HO.

HO is already a specialty with very intensive use of mid-levels/APPs. As hospital by-laws and other factors are changed out of necessity to accommodate the shortage of HO willing to play the traditional role, HO will become more of a manager of mid-levels, with the value of the providers themselves in some ways diminished.

I know of a great place for a HO to work BTW. Good values, small hospital, great community, but not urban. Good money (but you can of course make more other places).

 

[DrZap]

Thats why being able to teleport yourself anywhere becomes so vital.. your family doesn't move, and you have leverage to work anywhere on demand. Why more docs don't do this, I don't know. That said, living away from home 4 to 5 days a week isn't for everyone.

You gave the exact reason why more docs don’t do this

 

[medgator]

You gave the exact reason why more docs don’t do this

Yup, very tough during the kiddo years. Same reason why some of our therapists and Physicists didn't do the travel thing either despite the increased comp

 

[medgator]

Honestly, it was only after I was out in the absolute LAWLESS WILD WEST of independent practice did I come to appreciate how much smoke and mirrors and BS is out there.

You'll never see a 7 figure HemeOnc posting...because they're only posting base, not production bonus or total comp.

Correct.... No one will tell you what you are getting quarterly off your pharmacy, CT and pet/CT, lab/path etc because it's variable to a degree, let alone your rvu bonus etc depending on the setup but ancillaries are what separate the big dogs from the rest

 

[elementaryschooleconomics]

Docs often do not know what their colleagues are making, and in this market, the disparity can be shocking, even within a practice. It is much easier to get hired high than to get your salary raised 60%. This is leading to unsustainable behavior and expectations all around.

Totally agree.

The healthcare system, as a whole, is on the ropes right now. Everyone is projecting losses this quarter...except the insurance industry.

Some physicians are finding ways to get paid what they're worth, but the bean counters will always adjust. I don't know how they're going to do it, I just know they will, and soon enough the wealth with be redistributed back to the non-medical C-suite MBAs.

 

[sirspamalot]

My family has adapted, and being able to go on very nice vacations and have no economic stress makes up for the days in the middle of the week.. remote video allows me to catch the games I miss too.

Sure, if you have young kiddos, this is a tough ask. young teens and up? Mom can cover Tue-Thur. They're in school or activites 90% of the time too.

To each their own, but I am very happy for the most part - nothing is perfect in this world. I can't say the same for the vast majority of my urban colleagues unless they are already at the top of the food chain (ponzi scheme/brown nosed) in their org or are "hoping to make partner" which is a tremendous scam in and of itself.. we have a reputation of eating our young.

Freestanding is truly the wild west: be careful.

 

[deleted1116990]

Example: GA Hematology Oncology -60K Sign-on - $700K+ potential - 4 day work week - Georgia job with Jackson Physician Search | 110278574

700k+ potential, 4 day work week, 60k sign on.

IN reality that means you can negotiate to prob 800K+ potential and 120k+ sign on. 4 day work week si becoming standard at any place that NEEDS a med onc.

You can definitely get 700k and 60k sign on as a rad onc but the ads for us don't read like that. Mayb eone dayyyyyyyy..............

 

[medgator]

.

You can definitely get 700k and 60k sign on as a rad onc but the ads for us don't read like that. Mayb eone dayyyyyyyy..............

They did actually circa 2010-2014 iirc

 

[fiji128]

Where I am at, in the somewhat largish med onc department all physicians now have the option to go 4 days a week if they want. I was told this was done in an effort to retain and recruit. Not even a wisper of this happening on the rad onc side. Med oncs all got raises in 2021/22 as well. Raises are just not doable for rad onc at this time though, at least so I am told.

 

[sirspamalot]

Make no mistake kids: this is strictly a supply/demand issue.

You go where the demand is high, you get better pay.

Or, if you're a boomer who is at a metro location you can feast on the starving newbies and keep your tech profit share flowing nicely into your pocket.

Work rural, or work less (and get paid less, esp as a perm). Thats it, there is no mystery.

 

[Ubba]

Example: GA Hematology Oncology -60K Sign-on - $700K+ potential - 4 day work week - Georgia job with Jackson Physician Search | 110278574

700k+ potential, 4 day work week, 60k sign on.

IN reality that means you can negotiate to prob 800K+ potential and 120k+ sign on. 4 day work week si becoming standard at any place that NEEDS a med onc.

You can definitely get 700k and 60k sign on as a rad onc but the ads for us don't read like that. Mayb eone dayyyyyyyy..............

Good find. There are jobs like this in HO, sure, but if a RO were looking in southwest Georgia (horrible location), they'd also get outstanding offers, right? Maybe 7 figures.

 

[deleted1111261]

Good find. There are jobs like this in HO, sure, but if a RO were looking in southwest Georgia (horrible location), they'd also get outstanding offers, right? Maybe 7 figures.

No

 

[fiji128]

The highest advertised income I have seen for anything rad onc in the past five years was that job in Show Low Arizona for $650k with like 25 patients typically under treatment. That job only lasted 1 or 2 months on the astro career center before it disappeared. I don't recall anyone ever posting anything like >$700k in a publicly advertised position.

 

[deleted1111261]

The highest advertised income I have seen for anything rad onc in the past five years was that job in Show Low Arizona for $650k with like 25 patients typically under treatment. That job only lasted 1 or 2 months on the astro career center before it disappeared. I don't recall anyone ever posting anything like >$700k in a publicly advertised position.

It’s the BS of “fair market value” and the administrators saying that it would be anti-competitive.

I cannot think of a more efficient and rational way to achieve a competitive market other than by offering high salaries.

 

[sirspamalot]

It’s the BS of “fair market value” and the administrators saying that it would be anti-competitive.

I cannot think of a more efficient and rational way to achieve a competitive market other than by offering high salaries.

Yup, the whole "FMV" and "its a Stark issue" are pure nonsense. Nonsense! Stark has nothing to do with it. And, they'll pay what you're asking if they have to pay for locums thru an agency.. sheesh.

 

[deleted1116990]

Yes, FMV is largely BS. For their to be a legal case, they have to be paying you above what you bring in based on you making up the difference referring patients elsewhere in house. But it doesn't really matter. They are going to pay you what someone will take. The "excuse" of why they can't go higher doesn't matter, it's just insulting, that's all. Everyone would be wise to avoid engaging on the FMV/stark strawman. They just are saying no to your salary request, that's all, and want to act like it's out of their hands.

Spencer, IA was advertising 850k salary, 10 weeks PTO, and 200k sign-on for a while. All of that turned out to be false. Rad onc ads almost always state "competitive compensation per MGMA guidelines" So we have to play this stupid game of acting interested at any price before getting an offer and trying to negotiate. Whereas in a healthy market, we would just say "sounds, great, I'm interested, here is my fee for my professional services."

WIth regards to the academic satellite thing, I have tried to reject their "faculty appointment" in the past (for a full time clinical very far away from the main site position) and request to be paid as a staff (non-academic) physician. That request resulted in the job offer being pulled as simply asking was considered unprofessional and lacking dedication to the academic mission. So dumb.

 

[RickyScott]

Yup, the whole "FMV" and "its a Stark issue" are pure nonsense. Nonsense! Stark has nothing to do with it. And, they'll pay what you're asking if they have to pay for locums thru an agency.. sheesh.

Basically fmv means you can’t pay someone in the 99% when they are in the 1 % in productivity. It does not mean salary has to exactly match productivity. Your prof billing can be in 50% and hospital can pay you in the 90%, especially if they give you a directorship fee etc.

 

[sirspamalot]

They can pay you WHATEVER THEY WANT and FMV is ONLY a concern when it PERTAINS TO PAYMENT FOR REFERRALS OR UTILIZING SERVICES.

If you pay a radonc 1M and his pro fees are 500k and 2M technical with 1M profit - let me ask you, does a tree make a sound when it falls if you're on the toilet? Its all nonsense.

Stark refers to paying someone to induce them to utilize paid services (medicare/aid): for example, if you were say a surgeon and they "overpaid you" in exchange for using their hospital.. that could be a violation. Or giving you office space at well below market rates in a tit for tat deal suddenly you're using their hospital and drop the other hospital etc. Of course, this would require a whistleblower as most of this stuff goes on quietly.. Or encouraging a group of pulmonologists by giving them fat med dir contracts to "use the hospital imaging and surgical suites" etc etc. Legal/Compliance has gotten better at putting up a show to help dissuade execs from shooting the hospital in the foot and creating the perception that all is clean here etc.

Radoncs don't refer jack **** except the occasional imaging or patient who wanders in.. 99% of what we do is referred to us and most of our stuff is done by others. And as a W2, there is ZERO stark risk for you using the hospital by which you're employed. Risk is only for PSA. So lets all say it together "FMV" = f**k my value.

If you leave your 500k rural job.. they're gonna pay 750..850...950k annualized to get someone in locums... vote with your feet. THAT is what it is really worth folks. They know it. Do you ? Stay flexible. If they know you can't relocate, lol at your raise request..

 

[deleted1116990]

If you leave your 500k rural job.. they're gonna pay 750..850...950k annualized to get someone in locums... vote with your feet. THAT is what it is really worth folks. They know it. Do you ? Stay flexible. If they know you can't relocate, lol at your raise request..

This is exactly correct. The cost to the hospital to staff with locums will be about 850k per year, and there will be enormous hassle trying to schedule doctors and the pain of the often poor care and handoffs. Ideally, the hospital should pay MORE to get a good, compenent permanent doctor and rid themselves of this headache.

But for the sake of argument, suppose it's cost neutral. The rural hospital has 850k to pay for the clinic's operations. Suppose locums cost $3200/day. You want 30 days PTO? Ok, take 96k off that 850k, so now you're at 750k. Knock off some more for payroll expense and benefits, and it becomes very clear that anybody is a fool to be working at a hard-to-recruit rural place for less than 700k. Want more or less PTO? Then negotiate your pay as such remembering they've got about 850k to work with. But again, you ARE worth more than revolving locums in these places to get good steady care in, so that's your value. You should ideally be targeting 775-825k for these places, and there are places that will pay it if they get fed up with locums hassle. What they are all holding out for is a new grad to take it for 500. Thankfully, that's not going to happen with the current market, so maybe we will some of these always-hiring places finally fold and pay up what's needed to get a perm hire.