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i wouldnt put it that way. They dont just suck, they are our enemy. They work against our interests.
Astro Career Center and "A Roadmap for Recruiting Medical Students into Radiation Oncology during a Period of Waning Interest"
- Thread starter fiji128
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Don't forget the classic hostility and pitting one physician against another. Some do it like no other. El Hefe rules with no room for the weak..
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Update of the current Astro Career Center Job posting on 05/05/2023:
1) Rad Onc 0.8 FTE community academics with Oregon Health and Science University (Roseburg, OR).
2) Rad Onc private practice employed with US Cancer Management Corp (Fresno, CA).
3) Rad Onc private practice with Interventional Radiation Oncology of CA (Apple Valley, CA).
4) Rad Onc academics as brain tumor disease site director at MSKCC (New York, NY). Salary range $411,000 to $514,000.
5) Rad Onc community academics with University of Michigan (Grand Rapids, MI).
6) Rad Onc academics with University of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
7) Rad Onc academics with University of Nebraska (Omaha, NE).
8) Rad Onc academics with Stanford (Palo Alto, CA).
9) Rad Onc academics with Cleveland Clinic (Cleveland, OH).
10) Rad Onc private practice with Sentara Martha Jefferson Hospital (Charlottesville, VA).
11) Rad Onc employed with St. Peters Health Partners (Albany and Troy, NY).
12) Rad Onc academics with University of Kentucky (Lexington, KY).
13) Rad Onc employed with US Cancer Management (Sacramento, CA). Salary range $400,000 to $425,000.
14) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Associates (Mequon, WI).
15) Rad Onc employed with Trinity Health of New England (Springfield, MA).
16) Rad Onc academics with University of Florida (Gainesville, FL).
17) Rad Onc employed with MercyOne North (Mason City, IA). $100,000 sign on bonus.
18) Rad Onc private practice with McFarland Clinic (Ames, IA).
19) Rad Onc academics with Loyola (Maywood, IL).
20) Rad Onc academics with University of Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, PA).
21) Rad Onc academics with University of Virginia (Charlottesville, VA).
22) Rad Onc academics with Washington University (St. Louis, MoO).
23) Rad Onc employed with CarleHealth (Urbana, IL).
24) Rad Onc employed with WellSpan Health (Chambersburg, PA).
25) Rad Onc community academics with University of Michigan (Wyoming, MI).
26) Rad Onc employed with Guthrie Medical Group (Corning, NY).
27) Rad Onc academics without tenure as medical director of proton center University of Washington (Seattle, WA). Salary $375,000 to $500,004.
28) Rad Onc academics with MetroHealth Medical Center/Case Western (Cleveland, OH).
29) Rad Onc employed with Meadoview Regional Medical Center (Maysville, KY).
30) Rad Onc private practice with Celilo Radiation Oncology (The Dalles, OR).
31) Rad Onc academics with University of Missouri (Columbia, MO).
32) Rad Onc employed with County of Santa Clara Health, (San Jose, CA).
33) Rad Onc community academics with Northwestern (McHenry, IL).
34) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Silver Springs MD, Blairsville GA, Columbia MO, Albany NY).
35) Rad Onc academics at University of Chicago (Chicago, IL).
36) Rad Onc employed at Riverside Health System (Newport News, VA).
37) Rad Onc academics at Emory (Atlanta, GA).
38) Rad Onc employed with Ochsner Health (Covington, LA).
39) Rad Onc employed with Covenant Health (Morristown, TN).
40) Rad Onc academics with SUNY Upstate (Syracuse, NY).
41) Rad Onc employed with Summit Medical Group (Bloomfield, NJ).
42) Rad Onc employed with Sinai Hospital (Baltimore, MD).
43) Rad Onc part time community academics UMass (Brighton, MA).
44) Rad Onc employed with Marshfield Clinic (Rice Lake, WI).
45) Rad Onc employed with CarleHealth (Peoria, IL).
46) Rad Onc employed with South County Health (Wakefield, RI).
47) Rad Onc academics with Indiana University (Indianapolis, IN).
1) Rad Onc 0.8 FTE community academics with Oregon Health and Science University (Roseburg, OR).
2) Rad Onc private practice employed with US Cancer Management Corp (Fresno, CA).
3) Rad Onc private practice with Interventional Radiation Oncology of CA (Apple Valley, CA).
4) Rad Onc academics as brain tumor disease site director at MSKCC (New York, NY). Salary range $411,000 to $514,000.
5) Rad Onc community academics with University of Michigan (Grand Rapids, MI).
6) Rad Onc academics with University of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
7) Rad Onc academics with University of Nebraska (Omaha, NE).
8) Rad Onc academics with Stanford (Palo Alto, CA).
9) Rad Onc academics with Cleveland Clinic (Cleveland, OH).
10) Rad Onc private practice with Sentara Martha Jefferson Hospital (Charlottesville, VA).
11) Rad Onc employed with St. Peters Health Partners (Albany and Troy, NY).
12) Rad Onc academics with University of Kentucky (Lexington, KY).
13) Rad Onc employed with US Cancer Management (Sacramento, CA). Salary range $400,000 to $425,000.
14) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Associates (Mequon, WI).
15) Rad Onc employed with Trinity Health of New England (Springfield, MA).
16) Rad Onc academics with University of Florida (Gainesville, FL).
17) Rad Onc employed with MercyOne North (Mason City, IA). $100,000 sign on bonus.
18) Rad Onc private practice with McFarland Clinic (Ames, IA).
19) Rad Onc academics with Loyola (Maywood, IL).
20) Rad Onc academics with University of Pennsylvania (Philadelphia, PA).
21) Rad Onc academics with University of Virginia (Charlottesville, VA).
22) Rad Onc academics with Washington University (St. Louis, MoO).
23) Rad Onc employed with CarleHealth (Urbana, IL).
24) Rad Onc employed with WellSpan Health (Chambersburg, PA).
25) Rad Onc community academics with University of Michigan (Wyoming, MI).
26) Rad Onc employed with Guthrie Medical Group (Corning, NY).
27) Rad Onc academics without tenure as medical director of proton center University of Washington (Seattle, WA). Salary $375,000 to $500,004.
28) Rad Onc academics with MetroHealth Medical Center/Case Western (Cleveland, OH).
29) Rad Onc employed with Meadoview Regional Medical Center (Maysville, KY).
30) Rad Onc private practice with Celilo Radiation Oncology (The Dalles, OR).
31) Rad Onc academics with University of Missouri (Columbia, MO).
32) Rad Onc employed with County of Santa Clara Health, (San Jose, CA).
33) Rad Onc community academics with Northwestern (McHenry, IL).
34) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Silver Springs MD, Blairsville GA, Columbia MO, Albany NY).
35) Rad Onc academics at University of Chicago (Chicago, IL).
36) Rad Onc employed at Riverside Health System (Newport News, VA).
37) Rad Onc academics at Emory (Atlanta, GA).
38) Rad Onc employed with Ochsner Health (Covington, LA).
39) Rad Onc employed with Covenant Health (Morristown, TN).
40) Rad Onc academics with SUNY Upstate (Syracuse, NY).
41) Rad Onc employed with Summit Medical Group (Bloomfield, NJ).
42) Rad Onc employed with Sinai Hospital (Baltimore, MD).
43) Rad Onc part time community academics UMass (Brighton, MA).
44) Rad Onc employed with Marshfield Clinic (Rice Lake, WI).
45) Rad Onc employed with CarleHealth (Peoria, IL).
46) Rad Onc employed with South County Health (Wakefield, RI).
47) Rad Onc academics with Indiana University (Indianapolis, IN).
D
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Re: US Cancer Management jobs in Sacramento and Fresno.
Those cities are not everyone’s cup of tea, but I interview and nearly accepted a job in Sonoma County with them 6-7 years ago. It’s a very well run organization and doctors are treated well. The salary listed ends up going up relatively quickly as you get a percentage of what is generated. It’s an interesting model, but it was one of the best groups of people I’ve interacted with. They even took me skiing after the interview.
Those cities are not everyone’s cup of tea, but I interview and nearly accepted a job in Sonoma County with them 6-7 years ago. It’s a very well run organization and doctors are treated well. The salary listed ends up going up relatively quickly as you get a percentage of what is generated. It’s an interesting model, but it was one of the best groups of people I’ve interacted with. They even took me skiing after the interview.
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No good will "in the future" - nah, its today. FYPM today. Maybe if you're new, not if you're highly experienced.
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Update of the current Astro Career Center Job (pre ASTRO) posting on 09/07/2023 (done via Astro Member search):
Look like some there are some real decent private practice positions are popping up.
1) Rad Onc private practice with Wellspring Oncology (St. Petersburg, FL).
2) Rad Onc employed with Life Bridge Health (Baltimore, MD).
3) Rad Onc employed with St. Peters Health Partners (Albany and Troy, NY).
4) Rad Onc academics with Thomas Jefferson (Philadelphia, PA).
5) Rad Onc employed with South County Health (Wakefield, RI).
6) Rad Onc employed with Med Center Health (Bowling Green, KY).
7) Rad Onc employed with Banner MDACC (Greely, C0).
8) Rad Onc employed with Intermountain Health (Grand Junction, CO). Base Salary $500,000 + wRVU bonus after 9,330 at $45 per wRVU.
9) Rad Onc private practice with Charleston Radiation Therapy Consultants (Charleston, WV).
10) Rad Onc academics with University of Iowa (Iowa City, IA).
11) Rad Onc employed with Trinity Health (Minot, ND). Base Salary $600,000 to $675,000.
12) Rad Onc employed with US Cancer Management Corp (Sacramento, CA). $400,000 to $425,000.
13) Rad Onc employed with CHI St. Joseph Medical Group (Bardstown, KY).
14) Rad Onc academics with Rosewell Park (Buffalo, NY).
15) Rad Onc private practice with Confluence Health (Moses Lake, WA). $528,399 to %571,242.
16) Urorads with Associated Medical Professionals (Syracuse, NY).
17) Rad Onc employed with US Cancer Management (Fresno, CA). $400,000 to $425,000.
18) Rad Onc employed with Kettering Health (Troy, OH).
19) Rad Onc employed with GenesisCare (Naples, FL).
20) Rad Onc employed with GenesisCare (Rhode Island).
21) Rad Onc academics with University of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
22) Rad Onc employed with South Central Regional Cancer Center (Bowling Green, KY). $400,000 to $450,000.
23) Rad Onc community academics with U of Pittsburg (Beaver, Butler, Greensburg, Pittsburgh, Seneca, Washington, PA).
24) Rad Onc employed with Valor Oncology (Redding, CA). $400,000 to $500,000.
25) Rad Onc community academics with Cleveland Clinic (Canton, OH).
26) Rad Onc employed with Kaiser (Atlanta, GA).
27) Rad Onc private practice with Ironwood Physicians (Phoenix, AZ).
28) Rad Onc academics with Ohio State (Columbus, OH).
29) Rad Onc community academics with Mass General (Northhampton, MA).
30) Rad Onc employed with Banner MDACC (Phoenix, AZ).
31) Rad Onc academics with Duke (Durham, NC).
32) Rad Onc employed with Kirkland Cancer Center (Jackson, TN).
33) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Associates (Mequon, WI).
34) Rad Onc private practice with Carson Tahoe Radiation Oncology Associates (Carson City, NV).
35) Rad Onc private practice with Cancer Care Group (Indianapolis, IN).
36) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health Group (St Louis, MO).
37) Rad Onc academics with Emory (Atlanta, GA).
38) Rad Onc academics with U of Alabama (Birmingham, AL).
39) Rad Onc employed with San Juan Regional Medical Center (Farmington, NM).
40) Rad Onc academics with U of Rochester (Rochester, NY).
41) Rad Onc academics with U of Utah (Salt Lake City, UT).
42) Rad Onc employed with Dayton Physicians Network (Dayton, OH).
43) Rad Onc employed with Community Health Partners (Clovis, CA).
44) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Associates of the Northern Capital Region (Fairfax, VA).
45) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Blairsville, GA).
46) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Silver Spring, MD).
47) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Columbia, MO).
48) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Winchester, VA).
49) Rad Onc private practice with Premier Radiation Oncology Associates (Clearwater, FL).
50) Rad Onc private practice with Cook Radiation Oncology (Chicago, IL).
51) Rad Onc employed with Ascension Via Christi (Wichita, KS).
52) Rad Onc employed with Kaiser (Denver/Lafayette, CO).
53) Rad Onc academics with Dana Farber (Boston, MA).
54) Rad Onc employed with Cumberland Medical Center (Crossville, TN).
55) Rad Onc employed with Westchester Medical Center Health Network (Valhalla, NY). $300,000 to $520,000.
56) Rad Onc private practice with Memphis Radiological Professional Corporation (Memphis, TN). $300,000 to $500,000.
57) Rad Onc academics SUNY Upstate (Syracuse, NY).
58) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Consultants (Grants Pass, OR).
59) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Care at Meridian Park (Portland, OR).
60) Rad Onc employed with ProMedica Cancer Institute (Sylvania, OH).
61) Rad Onc employed with The US Oncology Network (Roanoke, VA).
62) Rad Onc employed with The US Oncology Network (Norfolk, VA).
63) Rad Onc employed with The US Oncology Network (Tucson, AZ).
64) Rad Onc private practice with Alpha Premier Radiation Oncology (Baytown, Shenadoah, Huntsville, Houston, TX).
65) Rad Onc employed with Tift Regional Medical Center (Tifton, GA). $596,382 to $626, 201.
66) Rad Onc employed with AdventHealth (Palm Coast, FL).
67) Rad Onc community academics with Duke (Cary, NC).
Look like some there are some real decent private practice positions are popping up.
1) Rad Onc private practice with Wellspring Oncology (St. Petersburg, FL).
2) Rad Onc employed with Life Bridge Health (Baltimore, MD).
3) Rad Onc employed with St. Peters Health Partners (Albany and Troy, NY).
4) Rad Onc academics with Thomas Jefferson (Philadelphia, PA).
5) Rad Onc employed with South County Health (Wakefield, RI).
6) Rad Onc employed with Med Center Health (Bowling Green, KY).
7) Rad Onc employed with Banner MDACC (Greely, C0).
8) Rad Onc employed with Intermountain Health (Grand Junction, CO). Base Salary $500,000 + wRVU bonus after 9,330 at $45 per wRVU.
9) Rad Onc private practice with Charleston Radiation Therapy Consultants (Charleston, WV).
10) Rad Onc academics with University of Iowa (Iowa City, IA).
11) Rad Onc employed with Trinity Health (Minot, ND). Base Salary $600,000 to $675,000.
12) Rad Onc employed with US Cancer Management Corp (Sacramento, CA). $400,000 to $425,000.
13) Rad Onc employed with CHI St. Joseph Medical Group (Bardstown, KY).
14) Rad Onc academics with Rosewell Park (Buffalo, NY).
15) Rad Onc private practice with Confluence Health (Moses Lake, WA). $528,399 to %571,242.
16) Urorads with Associated Medical Professionals (Syracuse, NY).
17) Rad Onc employed with US Cancer Management (Fresno, CA). $400,000 to $425,000.
18) Rad Onc employed with Kettering Health (Troy, OH).
19) Rad Onc employed with GenesisCare (Naples, FL).
20) Rad Onc employed with GenesisCare (Rhode Island).
21) Rad Onc academics with University of Maryland (Baltimore, MD).
22) Rad Onc employed with South Central Regional Cancer Center (Bowling Green, KY). $400,000 to $450,000.
23) Rad Onc community academics with U of Pittsburg (Beaver, Butler, Greensburg, Pittsburgh, Seneca, Washington, PA).
24) Rad Onc employed with Valor Oncology (Redding, CA). $400,000 to $500,000.
25) Rad Onc community academics with Cleveland Clinic (Canton, OH).
26) Rad Onc employed with Kaiser (Atlanta, GA).
27) Rad Onc private practice with Ironwood Physicians (Phoenix, AZ).
28) Rad Onc academics with Ohio State (Columbus, OH).
29) Rad Onc community academics with Mass General (Northhampton, MA).
30) Rad Onc employed with Banner MDACC (Phoenix, AZ).
31) Rad Onc academics with Duke (Durham, NC).
32) Rad Onc employed with Kirkland Cancer Center (Jackson, TN).
33) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Associates (Mequon, WI).
34) Rad Onc private practice with Carson Tahoe Radiation Oncology Associates (Carson City, NV).
35) Rad Onc private practice with Cancer Care Group (Indianapolis, IN).
36) Rad Onc employed with SSM Health Group (St Louis, MO).
37) Rad Onc academics with Emory (Atlanta, GA).
38) Rad Onc academics with U of Alabama (Birmingham, AL).
39) Rad Onc employed with San Juan Regional Medical Center (Farmington, NM).
40) Rad Onc academics with U of Rochester (Rochester, NY).
41) Rad Onc academics with U of Utah (Salt Lake City, UT).
42) Rad Onc employed with Dayton Physicians Network (Dayton, OH).
43) Rad Onc employed with Community Health Partners (Clovis, CA).
44) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Associates of the Northern Capital Region (Fairfax, VA).
45) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Blairsville, GA).
46) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Silver Spring, MD).
47) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Columbia, MO).
48) Rad Onc employed with US Oncology Network (Winchester, VA).
49) Rad Onc private practice with Premier Radiation Oncology Associates (Clearwater, FL).
50) Rad Onc private practice with Cook Radiation Oncology (Chicago, IL).
51) Rad Onc employed with Ascension Via Christi (Wichita, KS).
52) Rad Onc employed with Kaiser (Denver/Lafayette, CO).
53) Rad Onc academics with Dana Farber (Boston, MA).
54) Rad Onc employed with Cumberland Medical Center (Crossville, TN).
55) Rad Onc employed with Westchester Medical Center Health Network (Valhalla, NY). $300,000 to $520,000.
56) Rad Onc private practice with Memphis Radiological Professional Corporation (Memphis, TN). $300,000 to $500,000.
57) Rad Onc academics SUNY Upstate (Syracuse, NY).
58) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Consultants (Grants Pass, OR).
59) Rad Onc private practice with Radiation Oncology Care at Meridian Park (Portland, OR).
60) Rad Onc employed with ProMedica Cancer Institute (Sylvania, OH).
61) Rad Onc employed with The US Oncology Network (Roanoke, VA).
62) Rad Onc employed with The US Oncology Network (Norfolk, VA).
63) Rad Onc employed with The US Oncology Network (Tucson, AZ).
64) Rad Onc private practice with Alpha Premier Radiation Oncology (Baytown, Shenadoah, Huntsville, Houston, TX).
65) Rad Onc employed with Tift Regional Medical Center (Tifton, GA). $596,382 to $626, 201.
66) Rad Onc employed with AdventHealth (Palm Coast, FL).
67) Rad Onc community academics with Duke (Cary, NC).
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Lol. Anyone taking less than # for a rural/remote position is just feeding the c-suite lobster and champagne.
The result of failing to hire a critical $ earning specialist is an empty office and 0 new patient revenue. Sure, you can die slowly with locums and telemed but eventually the community just gives up and sends it all out.
Don't accept less. And if you're really bright... 1099 for lyfe.
ps. anyone hear if Bridge Oncology has any client hospitals yet?
The result of failing to hire a critical $ earning specialist is an empty office and 0 new patient revenue. Sure, you can die slowly with locums and telemed but eventually the community just gives up and sends it all out.
Don't accept less. And if you're really bright... 1099 for lyfe.
ps. anyone hear if Bridge Oncology has any client hospitals yet?
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As always with this time of year: I'm very curious how many of these are "real".
To be clear, maybe they all are - my interest is not in a pessimistic sense, just that this is the time when everyone sets up meetings at ASTRO.
I've personally seen (because they came from my group or institution) positions posted that were already filled or just "feelers", just to "see who's out there".
I actually wish we could have additional datapoints which are impossible: percentage of ASTRO jobs filled, by who and when.
To be clear, maybe they all are - my interest is not in a pessimistic sense, just that this is the time when everyone sets up meetings at ASTRO.
I've personally seen (because they came from my group or institution) positions posted that were already filled or just "feelers", just to "see who's out there".
I actually wish we could have additional datapoints which are impossible: percentage of ASTRO jobs filled, by who and when.
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It's good to remember that most graduates get only 1-2 offers and, personally, I was not in a position to # as a new grad.
I had loans and I needed to work.
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You can work. But work productively, as the recently deceased El Hefe once declared.
Do locums for awhile, learn to negotiate, see the world. When you find one of those places that want to keep you, you'll be in a great position to #.
Now, if you have a wife who wants to be metro, and you can't fly to get home or don't want to be away from home 3 days a week, I get it.
But, the more degrees of freedom you have, the better. All doctors should learn how to fly.. but I suppose that would ruin my arbitrage.
Do locums for awhile, learn to negotiate, see the world. When you find one of those places that want to keep you, you'll be in a great position to #.
Now, if you have a wife who wants to be metro, and you can't fly to get home or don't want to be away from home 3 days a week, I get it.
But, the more degrees of freedom you have, the better. All doctors should learn how to fly.. but I suppose that would ruin my arbitrage.
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Meanwhile in our academic shop, the wRVU target for a clinician is ~11,500 thanks to SCAROP survey.
I don't understand how MGMA median can be ~9,000, and this is the target in a lot of private shops, while AAMC/SCAROP says 50th percentile is ~11,500.
(PS: $45/wRVU is pretty lousy)
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Lol. $100/wRVU or you know do I even have to say it?
Absolute minimum is 75$, MIN-I-MUM. As in, "I have to take this job."
Absolute minimum is 75$, MIN-I-MUM. As in, "I have to take this job."
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Easy to say in your shoes, but that is generally not a good path for the average new grad
Nor would it be highly regarded from employers when that new grad decided to settle down (unless it was with "#" position they did the locum for)
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Um...what???
The 2021 SCAROP survey is around 9,500. Do you have a newer one?
However, if they're using the AAMC/Vizient one, MAKE SURE ADMIN KNOWS IT'S NOT REAL wRVUs.
Meaning: AAMC/Vizient corrects for clinical effort. Their wRVU is the result of a formula. It's artificially inflated when compared to raw wRVUs.
Unless that same formula is being applied to your productivity metrics? I doubt it.
But if you get a report saying "you produced 800 wRVUs this month" based on actual/calculated claims, and admin is telling you to hit 11,500 based on AAMC/Vizient...
They're either dumb or intentionally manipulating you.
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The Pathologists published a paper about this:
MGMA doesn't "correct" but it only tracks docs above 0.67 FTE.
This is a worrying trend across institutions I've personally observed.
Don't let them screw you.
Benchmarking Academic Anatomic Pathologists: The Association of Pathology Chairs Survey
MGMA doesn't "correct" but it only tracks docs above 0.67 FTE.
This is a worrying trend across institutions I've personally observed.
Don't let them screw you.
Benchmarking Academic Anatomic Pathologists: The Association of Pathology Chairs Survey
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I'd like to discuss this further. I am likely mistaken on this point.
They multiply 11,500 by your cFTE. Many faculty members in the department are around 0.9, so academic target is on the order of 10,000-11,000. This is clinical-educator track where publications and other academic productivity are still expected and required for promotion.
It's always hard to know which.
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Maybe so. And nothing is easy. But if you're tired of getting creamed after your first respectable gig is looking bleak, seriously, consider doing locums.
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Also, this is how Vizient/AAMC advertises one of their productivity platforms to your admins:
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That's...not sufficient. That's intentionally manipulative.
They might be doing "extra" stuff behind the scenes but merely multiplying cFTE by 11,500 does not adequately correct for how Vizient creates benchmarks.
Only if the measured productivity reports you're given are corrected at that level (for instance, 800 wRVU per month is a "corrected" number as well).
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I am not following this at all. Where do they get a target of 11,500 other than their imagination? That number is well above every estimate of median production for a 1.0 RO that I have seen.
It's probably safe to assume that most graduates want a guaranteed job in a stable location where they can have their "own practice", be home with family most days, and don't have to travel all the time.
I agree people should be open minded and RO is kind of nice where you can be creative, but locums out of residency is probably not a common desire.
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I don't understand what you mean here.
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In case there was ever any doubt about what its all really about:
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Last edited:
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10,845 here (FPSC).
To my knowledge, these benchmarks come from normalizing AAMC data at ~8,000 wRVU per clinical faculty 50th percentile depending on year divided by ~0.71 cFTE average for clinical faculty depending on year. This gives 11,267.
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Agreed - would be probably a better call than a lateral move into another exploitative gig and most should be in a better position at that point
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Yeah here's fspc/vizient for rad onc at 11,108 (2018 data)
Speaking of which, I laughed out loud during the most recent Black Mirror season in the final episode when biryani was mentioned because of you misanthropes.
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So here's how FPSC is derived - and to be clear, they do actually appear to be striving for fairness:
Both the SCAROP report and MGMA benchmarks are more or less "raw" data.
MGMA is skewed by excluding physicians below 0.67 FTE.
But the SCAROP report doesn't have a "correction", or at least they don't admit to it:
So for the sake of argument:
They say "average" wRVU is 11,500 per year
They say "corrected" average, so cFTE = 1.0 = 11,500
If you're 0.8 FTE, your budget targeted would be 0.8 * 11,500 = 9,200
But you're likely being provided your "actual" wRVU production, without correction.
The Pathologists said it best:
If, at the end of the day, you're being judged against benchmarks derived using "gap filling methodology"...
...but your department is only tracking you through "regular" wRVU metrics...
That's called "getting screwed".
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We are provided the benchmark and the corrected benchmark for individual effort allocation.
What bothers me is: how can MGMA private practice give wRVU ~9000 median target for clinical faculty with a certain median compensation while AAMC gives wRVU ~11,000 target for clinical faculty with a median compensation that is significantly less depending on rank?
Academics is supposed to be less productive than non-academics to justify lower salaries with the time filled in by teaching and research. What we're seeing instead is higher clinical productivity expectations with lower salaries.
What bothers me is: how can MGMA private practice give wRVU ~9000 median target for clinical faculty with a certain median compensation while AAMC gives wRVU ~11,000 target for clinical faculty with a median compensation that is significantly less depending on rank?
Academics is supposed to be less productive than non-academics to justify lower salaries with the time filled in by teaching and research. What we're seeing instead is higher clinical productivity expectations with lower salaries.
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Ha this just seems so like... dishonest? I dont know. Im not ESE level of knowledge here, but the pay doesnt scale linearly with RVU production in most contracts and models I would guess. In academics, per SCAROP, the plot of pay/RVU is almost flat. Using a benchmark median and average FTE without knowing physician level data on pay just seems odd.
Do academic chairs scale down their pay and target if they are 0.1 FTE? I highly doubt that! I am not a chair but just renegotiated my contract to allow for a new admin role and decreased clinical FTE. Everything scaled down equally, clinical pay, FTE, and RVU target. It "felt" very fair.
This only seems (subjectively) to be "fair" if people are scaled up and down equally.
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Yes, and I totally agree with this statement. It used to be there were perceived benefits such as research support, "academic" opportunities, and you get to work with "the greats". Haha so many air quotes.
Im noticing that more and more, new grads share with me that this is becoming a hard sell. They watch their own attendings and wonder why not just go to a community employed job. Its hard to argue against that idea IMO for more and more jobs. YMMV obviously, this is just personal experience from giving advice.
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If there are no community employed jobs in the area or the non-academic employers are also paying AAMC level rates, you're stuck. This is the reality in many markets.
Decreased supply of rad oncs is the only way to correct this.
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Because AAMC is corrected.
MGMA is actual.
You are being turbo screwed.
At least your weather is nicer than mine, I guess?
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I've noticed a lot of confusion around this in general, so in case it's not clear:
We all know what the AAMC is.
Vizient works with the AAMC on this. I haven't dug into what they are exactly, either partners, or subsidiary, or shell, or whatever.
FPSC is like...what this benchmark product is named. Or something.
It doesn't matter, the take home is it's all one thing.
Vizient = AAMC = FPSC
MGMA is a different company/product
Sullivan Cotter is a different company/product
The SCAROP report is a different product
We all know what the AAMC is.
Vizient works with the AAMC on this. I haven't dug into what they are exactly, either partners, or subsidiary, or shell, or whatever.
FPSC is like...what this benchmark product is named. Or something.
It doesn't matter, the take home is it's all one thing.
Vizient = AAMC = FPSC
MGMA is a different company/product
Sullivan Cotter is a different company/product
The SCAROP report is a different product
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I finally got to read your post in detail. One thing that people are glossing over but definitely matters is the definition of FTE.
If you just polled all 1.0 FTEs in the US (non and academic) and asked them what their clinic template looked like, I suspect you'd see wild variation.
If I was in a model where they were scaling my targets based on FTE, you better believe Id be completely blocking every minute below 1.0 out of clinic and asking to take it from home. That's a negotiating tip for you new grads.
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I don't know if the word I am thinking of after reading this summary is miasma or smegma.
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The answer here is smegma because when do you get to say “penis cheese”?
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When I'm answering the Jeopardy question:
"What is the only way to describe the quality of RadOnc leadership since 2002?"
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We have one mid career doc doing that. They are living their best life
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At the end of day, it’s always comes back to supply and demand. Rvus and $/rvu are just a game.
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Which is why I posted my survey results to get a snapshot of real Pay vs RVU..
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Looking forward to some 2024 updates
MidwestRadOnc
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8) Rad Onc employed with Intermountain Health (Grand Junction, CO). Base Salary $500,000 + wRVU bonus after 9,330 at $45 per wRVU.
This supposed to be a "decent" offer?
A below median MGMA hospital employed job that pays you out at a lower wRVU rate than your base (<25%-tile) once you make the base in rural Colorado? I am sure it filled though.
Yeah, hopefully 2024 is better.
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I knew someone in a different part of the country with a contract like that right out of residency. WTF? He of course left after a couple of years when he learned about RVU's, etc and practice income/structure.
WHy would you make less per RVU in November than in January? What incentive is there to grow/get busier?
Where do these admins come up with this stuff?
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