At The End of The Pre-Med Road, & Burnt Out

[medception]

Edit.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Person0715]

If medicine is really your dream, focus on one step at a time. Right now, the MCAT is most pressing.

 

[WhittyPsyche]

Though not directly in response to your post. Don't you think an August MCAT is a bit late for this cycle? Not being complete until September seems very risky.

Just food for thought. You may want to evaluate the timeline for your MCAT, less you have an unsuccessful cycle and have another year of premed burnout :/

 

[LostinLift]

I felt really burned out during secondaries and as a result many were delayed.

In terms of getting motivated to study I would try to get someone to hold you accountable for a schedule. Reach out for help from those around you.

 

[Catalystik]

I'm having a pretty hard time motivating myself to study, inundated with thoughts about loan debt, how medicine is taking some pretty dark turns (I'm a full-time CNA, so I've witnessed first-hand what Obamacare is doing to hospitals like mine).

Don't thoughts of continuing to earn a CNA's salary motivate you? (Or, as my mom put it, "Someone has to work at K-Mart.")

 

[ventulus18]

So I know there are probably other threads like the one I'm about to share, however...

I'm essentially at the end of the pre-med road, just submitted AMCAS/AACOMAS, two years out of college, strong EC's, 3.65 c/s GPA, and taking the MCAT in August.

I'm having a pretty hard time motivating myself to study, inundated with thoughts about loan debt, how medicine is taking some pretty dark turns (I'm a full-time CNA, so I've witnessed first-hand what Obamacare is doing to hospitals like mine).

I can't discern whether I'm getting cold feet about it all, or if there's actually some merit to my hesitations.

Anyone else feel this way?

Dark turns in the healthcare system, maybe. From my perspective people will continue to get sick and need doctors to take care of them, and I have never thought twice about job security (being able to make a living).

Loans are real and I went through medical school on them. I think carefully about them when I take them out and when I fill out my forbearance forms every year (interest rates, payback terms, lender, etc), but I've never though about them during school/residency itself. Loans are a tool in my eyes. Yes, the cost is ridiculous, but I wouldn't be dissuaded from med school even if I had to do it again. After a 7 year residency, I continue to encourage others to go to med school with full enthusiasm. I love what I do and making a meaningful difference in patients' lives.

 

[pmarank]

Don't thoughts of continuing to earn a CNA's salary motivate you? (Or, as my mom put it, "Someone has to work at K-Mart.")

Couldn't he just go to PA school?

 

[Catalystik]

Couldn't he just go to PA school?

Absolutely, though I'd have assumed that consideration was already weighed.

 

[pmarank]

Absolutely, though I'd have assumed that consideration was already weighed.

Hey cat just curious, whats your opinion on going to PA school vs med school? Should someone with a 3.6gpa/30MCAT consider PA school if they feel burnt out like the OP?

 

[Aerus]

So I know there are probably other threads like the one I'm about to share, however...

I'm essentially at the end of the pre-med road, just submitted AMCAS/AACOMAS, two years out of college, strong EC's, 3.65 c/s GPA, and taking the MCAT in August.

I'm having a pretty hard time motivating myself to study, inundated with thoughts about loan debt, how medicine is taking some pretty dark turns (I'm a full-time CNA, so I've witnessed first-hand what Obamacare is doing to hospitals like mine).

I can't discern whether I'm getting cold feet about it all, or if there's actually some merit to my hesitations.

Anyone else feel this way?

There are pros and cons with every career. You will just have to make sure that the pros outweigh the cons here. All career fields undergo dark times.

 

[Catalystik]

Hey cat just curious, whats your opinion on going to PA school vs med school? Should someone with a 3.6gpa/30MCAT consider PA school if they feel burnt out like the OP?

Two years of PA school with no residency afterward and a more regular schedule with a fair income seems attractive, but then why do we see current PAs dissatisfied with their practice situation seeking to get into med schools in WAMC? Greater autonomy and a deeper understanding of the basic science behind medical practice are the most common reasons given. I expect the higher income is part of the motivation, also, even if unexpressed.

 

[pmarank]

Two years of PA school with no residency afterward and a more regular schedule with a fair income seems attractive, but then why do we see current PAs dissatisfied with their practice situation seeking to get into med schools in WAMC? Greater autonomy and a deeper understanding of the basic science behind medical practice are the most common reasons given. I expect the higher income is part of the motivation, also, even if unexpressed.

That's fair but I was thinking about it more from the OP's "burned out" perspective. I don't think anyone doubts that being an attending physician comes w/ greater autonomy, better understanding, and higher income. The OP said "Im having a pretty hard time motivating myself to study". I think a lot of premeds are in a similar position where they feel burned out because of the amount of work they put into undergrad. The OP and I have similar gpas (3.65). Do you think its a good idea for people like us, that burned out achieving a 3.65 in undergrad, to consider PA school? Im certain the OP really wants the autonomy/understanding/income potential (I deff do), but is it worth it if you are already burned out in ugrad?

Sorry for all the questions...didnt mean to hijack the thread lol. I just really value your opinion as an adviser on this forum!

 

[Gregor Wiesmann]

If you are burnt out and taking the MCAT in August(which is kind of late for this cycle?), then why not just take a gap year and apply next cycle?

 

[Catalystik]

That's fair but I was thinking about it more from the OP's "burned out" perspective. I don't think anyone doubts that being an attending physician comes w/ greater autonomy, better understanding, and higher income. The OP said "Im having a pretty hard time motivating myself to study". I think a lot of premeds are in a similar position where they feel burned out because of the amount of work they put into undergrad. The OP and I have similar gpas (3.65). Do you think its a good idea for people like us, that burned out achieving a 3.65 in undergrad, to consider PA school? Im certain the OP really wants the autonomy/understanding/income potential (I deff do), but is it worth it if you are already burned out in ugrad?

If you are burnt out and taking the MCAT in August(which is kind of late for this cycle?), then why not just take a gap year and apply next cycle?

If one is "burnt out" from intense schoolwork or MCAT subject immersion, one is not likely to do well in any academic situation. Fortunately, the condition is not permanent and generally resolves with some time away from study. So Gregor Wiesmann has the right of it.

 

[solitarius]

If you are burnt out and taking the MCAT in August(which is kind of late for this cycle?), then why not just take a gap year and apply next cycle?

Would (s)he be considered a re-applicant?

 

[99.]

So I know there are probably other threads like the one I'm about to share, however...

I'm essentially at the end of the pre-med road, just submitted AMCAS/AACOMAS, two years out of college, strong EC's, 3.65 c/s GPA, and taking the MCAT in August.

I'm having a pretty hard time motivating myself to study, inundated with thoughts about loan debt, how medicine is taking some pretty dark turns (I'm a full-time CNA, so I've witnessed first-hand what Obamacare is doing to hospitals like mine).

I can't discern whether I'm getting cold feet about it all, or if there's actually some merit to my hesitations.

Anyone else feel this way?

I felt this way just as I was about to take the August MCAT. Consider if any of these apply to you:

1. Your motives for medicine may not be entirely pure. You can have a genuine interest in a field, but most of your motivation may be coming from money, prestige, and/or the chase of getting in, etc. The burnout could be from disillusionment of your perception of what it means to be a physician. But if your motives are truly pure, and medicine is your passion, then the changes in the healthcare system and the sacrifices one makes (debt, time, sleep), is just the price to pay to do what you truly want.

2. If you've been a full-time CNA for 2 years, this can be both motivating and a source of burnout. I was a full-time CNA in an ICU to support myself through full time undergrad. It's not easy to manage the emotional toll from many of the patient's cases, the natural dirty work of the CNA, and the pressure to make competitive grades. In the beginning it may be motivating to study hard so you're not a CNA for life, but you can burnout if you don't address stressors and time-management early on.

3. Are you afraid of failing? Your stats are competitive, so I'm less inclined to think this is the case, but it's something to consider. Maybe the cold feet could be fear of a low MCAT and not getting into a certain program or getting in at all, but it's masking as burnout.

4. Were you overzealous when you started your pre-med journey? You know the old adage..."the flame that burns twice as bright burns half as long"

5. Is it lifestyle? Nothing in the medical field is easy. Whether you're a physician, nurse, PA, allied health tech, you are going to see things you can't unsee. And while you'll still experience the frustrations with Obamacare and EHR in mid-level or allied health positions, it may be easier to manage in a role with a more predictable and regulated work schedule.


Whatever the case may be, you're not alone. But identifying the source of your burnout is priority one. Taking a year off (or more) to sort it out could save you a lot of heartache. Heartache from pushing through the app process, and dropping out of med school with the debt because it's not what you wanted after all. Or from pushing through, burning out again, and possibly doing irrevocable damage to your career. You might find that medicine is what you wanted after all, it just needed to mature. The apprehension you have regarding the status quo in healthcare might become the motivation you need to help change it for the better.

Hope this helps you in some way.

 

[99.]

I seemed to have missed that you are already 2 years out of college. If you're feeling this way from being a CNA, I would look into some other positions in the medical field. Maybe try working in a clinic or doing clinical research if you have a med school nearby. You could be having a legitimate change of heart about medicine, but if your only exposure is as a CNA it may be beneficial to branch out to different areas.

 

[gyngyn]

Would (s)he be considered a re-applicant?

Yes, to the schools to which he sent a primary.

 

[medception]

Edit.

 

[99.]

Thanks for your sincere input, 99. You bring up a good point that I didn't think of previously, and I think that would be your point #3. Both of my parents are physicians, which I believe has added to the pressure over the years. I've been a CNA for about 4 months now. Previously, I got some good work experience doing economics research (my other major), started my own tutoring business, and worked at the Pentagon for a year in Air Force disability initiatives (hiring wounded warriors and civilians with severe disabilities).

Also, I completely agree that every profession has its downsides. It wasn't my intention to sound like I was complaining, as I'm not. I believe I'm very fortunate to be able to apply at all, and I'm grateful to have come from an upper-middle class background. But I also think the constant chase of working my way up the ladder is itself a source of burnout, coupled with a fear of failing (I've had self-confidence issues for many years now, although I thoroughly understand the benefits of courage and true belief in oneself).

PA school was definitely something I considered at one point, however I would like the autonomy and deeper understanding of medical biochemistry, as other posters have addressed.

I'm glad something in there spoke to you. Point #3 was the primary reason I didn't take the MCAT and walked away from the application process altogether. I'm the youngest of 3, and was a 1st gen college student. Pursuing medicine or anything academic was a far-fetched concept. I put a lot of pressure on myself to succeed for fear of letting my family down. The MCAT was the last and final step. Suddenly the negative aspects of medicine (long road, time investment, debt, low morale from a broken healthcare system) predominated my thoughts and I convinced myself it wasn't what I truly wanted anymore. Then I could tell myself and the people who believed in me that I didn't fail, I just had a change of heart.

I understand the polarity of having an inherent belief in yourself, yet lacking the confidence to follow through. In my case, the latter stemmed from being grossly underprepared for college and overcompensating to prove to myself and everyone else that I could succeed. Earlier this year, I read a book called Mindset by Carol Dweck. This book single-handedly set me free. I now approach the MCAT and other experiences as challenges, rather than some event that will define me if I fail. I can tell you that studying is a lot more fun and effective without the self-inflicted test anxiety. The book is concise and informally written, so it's a quick read. I found a copy at a used book store for $7. It may or may not help you, but if you've determined that fear of failing is potentially the root of your qualm, then I think it's worth the read.

"PA school was definitely something I considered at one point, however I would like the autonomy and deeper understanding of medical biochemistry, as other posters have addressed." <--Likewise.

 

[Mad Jack]

Two years of PA school with no residency afterward and a more regular schedule with a fair income seems attractive, but then why do we see current PAs dissatisfied with their practice situation seeking to get into med schools in WAMC? Greater autonomy and a deeper understanding of the basic science behind medical practice are the most common reasons given. I expect the higher income is part of the motivation, also, even if unexpressed.

Just my thoughts on the PA vs physician decision. It really comes down to how happy one will be as a midlevel, and whether they require full autonomy, the knowledge of a broad medical education, the additional prestige of being a physician, or the income of a physician to be satisfied with life. PAs are, on the whole, happier than physicians, with around 70% reportedly satisfied with their careers. Only around 54% of physicians would choose medicine again, a great number of which would choose a different specialty or practice setting. People need to be careful with the choice between the physician and PA route. If a prospective student values the sorts of things the PA path can give them (less liability, more free time, a shorter education, an easier transition between specialties, etc) and can handle the downsides (working under a physician, less overall medical knowledge, less money, and fewer business opportunities) then the PA route is something they should very seriously consider. But if there are those things about being a physician they absolutely cannot live without (full autonomy, the pay, being able to be a full partner in practice, etc) and the downsides are bearable (extremely long training in comparison to the PA route, longer hours, significantly higher liability, typically more call) then they should go the physician route, because the PA route will likely just leave them itching to go back to school.

http://www.beckershospitalreview.co.../5-top-drivers-of-np-pa-job-satisfaction.html
http://www.forbes.com/sites/susanadams/2012/04/27/why-do-so-many-doctors-regret-their-job-choice/

 

[medception]

Edit.

 

[Hillo]

I would like the autonomy and deeper understanding of medical biochemistry, as other posters have addressed.

Autonomy in what way?
There's no one helping a PA/nurse out when they're thinking about the diagnosis and treatment.
As an analogy, I'd say a teacher has a lot of autonomy in how he/she runs his/her classroom... yet a teacher is considered "under" the principal rather than the principal's "team member."

If you truly want to learn medical biochemistry, read all the medical biochemistry textbooks and websites you can.

 

[99.]

Autonomy in what way?
There's no one helping a PA/nurse out when they're thinking about the diagnosis and treatment.
As an analogy, I'd say a teacher has a lot of autonomy in how he/she runs his/her classroom... yet a teacher is considered "under" the principal rather than the principal's "hands."

If you truly want to learn medical biochemistry, read all the medical biochemistry textbooks and websites you can.

I'm only answering this because I agreed with medception's quote. For me it's not specifically biochemistry, but having a deeper understanding of the science and disease process overall. It wouldn't be as satisfying to solely handle the bread and butter cases, which are typically assigned to mid-levels. The depth of education that a physician receives prepares them for the more complex cases.

Great teacher analogy, btw.

 

[Hillo]

http://www.amazon.com/Rapid-Review-Biochemistry-STUDENT-CONSULT/dp/0323068871/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1403836108&sr=1-1&keywords=rapid review biochemistry

http://www.amazon.com/Robbins-Cotra...e=UTF8&qid=1403836137&sr=1-2&keywords=robbins

http://www.pathguy.com/

https://www.youtube.com/user/WashingtonDeceit

http://clinicalpathology.wordpress.com/

Many students prefer med schools that don't mandate attendance for a reason...

 

[mehc012]

Autonomy in what way?
There's no one helping a PA/nurse out when they're thinking about the diagnosis and treatment.
As an analogy, I'd say a teacher has a lot of autonomy in how he/she runs his/her classroom... yet a teacher is considered "under" the principal rather than the principal's "team member."

If you truly want to learn medical biochemistry, read all the medical biochemistry textbooks and websites you can.

That's not always true. In both practice types in which I have scribed (ED and ortho clinic), the PAs always consulted the MDs on any cases which seemed even a bit out of the norm. Even on busy days, when the ED is slammed, the PAs come up to the docs multiple times throughout the shift to say "hey, when you have a moment, there are a few cases I'd like to bounce off you" or "would you mind taking a look at room 7? I think xyz, but I wasn't sure whether a CT was warranted".
In private practice, it was slightly less common due to the nature of the standard clinic visit, but it still wasn't rare.
That's not to say that they had to - older, more experienced PAs tend to do so less frequently (though still at least a couple of times/shift), or to present it as "hey, I have xyz and I decided to go ahead with abc course, anything you think I should do differently", but it is always an option for them.

I have only seen these two environments, so I suppose it may be wholly different in a different practice setup, but I'd honestly be surprised to see PAs operating without the ability to consult MDs. In fact, from the convos I pick up, I'm fairly certain that Medicare has some guidelines about whether older people can be seen by PAs in the ED without the physician at least looking the case over before they go.

 

[quickie32]

I also recently burned out (badly) after several months of studying for the MCAT to the point where I could not physically motivate myself to do anything pre-med related. I felt I was spiraling down a sad rabbit hole and pretty much questioned why I was doing everything. I thought about it and a big reason why I didn't feel motivated was because everything I did felt so resume-y... the initial passion/ curiosity / motivation I had for a lot of things pre-med related became a kind of chore I felt I had to check off and it just felt exhausting.

Ironically what got me kinda out of the rabbit hole was working on my AMCAS app. It was strangely therapeutic to indulge my thoughts, aspirations, and distance traveled. Writing my personal statement reminded me of precisely why I am so invested in medicine and what I ultimately want to achieve.. And thinking back to the many experiences and people I've come to know and love, it reminds me of the core reasons of why I'm entering medicine and why I believe I'd become a capable physician.

Good luck!

 

[DermViser]

PA school was definitely something I considered at one point, however I would like the autonomy and deeper understanding of medical biochemistry, as other posters have addressed.

Pushed by healthcare reform, medicine is switching more to team-based care, so autonomy for medicine is actually continuing to decrease and fast. Not that it already wasn't with insurance companies and reimbursement.

Spoiler alert: Biochemistry is not used very much in clinical medicine.