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And how would you do it?
I've heard a solo practice man here in Chicago doing 400k for 60 hour weeks.
I've heard a solo practice man here in Chicago doing 400k for 60 hour weeks.
May want to check that math again. But, if they’re on enough benzos, the math may add up, for them.I just charge a going rate of $5 per alprazolam tablet prescribed. I offer a combination deal of alprazolam and amphetamines for $7.50 per tablet prescribed.
Dude you are getting ripped off! hahaI just charge a going rate of $5 per alprazolam tablet prescribed. I offer a combination deal of alprazolam and amphetamines for $7.50 per tablet prescribed.
The SAME question keeps come up. wtf. Do a search.
This isn't a question about "how much you make", it's "how much CAN you make, if you WANTED to."
Which has also been discussed in several threads. Search function is your friend. To answer your question, I've had 2 attending making over 500k and one of them cleared 7 figures. If you Build the right business model and are savvy it's possible. If you want to do purely clinical work my guess would be around 500k + or - X based on geographic area and reimbursement model if you're willing to put the hours in. Just a guess though...
How old were they, what were they doing, can anyone that wants to make that kind of money do it?
Just want to point out one can find with not too much difficulty a clinician educator job in an academic setting making "at least 200k" per year right out of residency. I received multiple offers for such jobs and make "at least 200k" working at an academic medical center, with decent benefits (it should not be forgotten that academic medical centers all have good retirement plans and other things, accrue 5 weeks of vacay a year, have plentiful professional leave, and my salary would be covered for extended medical leave. If I stay with the institution for 34 yrs, I will collect 100% of my x salary that averages as the 3 highest yrs income for the remainder of my life). I don't take call and would be paid extra (and quite well) if I wanted to work weekends as well. I then make additional income doing my forensic work some of which can be done during the day. I could see additional pts for extra income if I wanted to.To your last question, let's do some basic math. From everyone I've talked to, it's completely reasonable to land a contract straight out of residency making at least 200k/year working around 40 hours/wk (assuming you're not going into academic medicine). Now consider moonlighting. It's pretty reasonable to be able to find a position paying $100/hour.
I am kinda depressed to hear medical students talking about "cranking out" patients at such an early stage in your career. Who would want to do that? How is that providing good patient care? Psychiatry is by no means the highest paying specialty but you will make enough money in psychiatry. Don't be greedy. If you really want to bring in the big bucks, then a career in clinical medicine is not for you. Doctors are basically serfs, there's only so much money you can make seeing patients, and if you are making lots of money that way you are either doing something illegal, unethical, or both.
I am kinda depressed to hear medical students talking about "cranking out" patients at such an early stage in your career. Who would want to do that? How is that providing good patient care?
I am kinda depressed to hear medical students talking about "cranking out" patients at such an early stage in your career. Who would want to do that? How is that providing good patient care? Psychiatry is by no means the highest paying specialty but you will make enough money in psychiatry. Don't be greedy. If you really want to bring in the big bucks, then a career in clinical medicine is not for you. Doctors are basically serfs, there's only so much money you can make seeing patients, and if you are making lots of money that way you are either doing something illegal, unethical, or both.
You're depressed now? We start off depressed! 350k in debt, we have no choice but to think about paying that back in the beginning part of our career. I want nothing more than to enjoy treating my patients with absolutely no rush and have a humble living. Shame us youngins all you want, but this what the past generation allowed medicine to turn into.
Would love to hear from some of the attendings here, as I always like hearing what options are out there and what to reasonably expect out of them.
You're depressed now? We start off depressed! 350k in debt, we have no choice but to think about paying that back in the beginning part of our career. I want nothing more than to enjoy treating my patients with absolutely no rush and have a humble living. Shame us youngins all you want, but this what the past generation allowed medicine to turn into.
Just read your thread. Your are a god amongst mortal menSee my post in paying off debt
In some states, at least, you do need a medical degree to own a medical practice. Though that probably has nothing to do with your point overall.You don’t have to have a medical degree to start a business
I work 60hrs/wk at the mo and I am burnt out
Okay so attendings realistically if you worked 60 hours a week at jobs accessible to you (not opening up a profitable pp, just simply working more at current jobs so no skills required) would you make 400k by just working 60 hours a week?
Straight up contract work for 60 hours without trying to maximize income would put you around 350-500k based on location, hours, and willingness to drive.
Okay so attendings realistically if you worked 60 hours a week at jobs accessible to you (not opening up a profitable pp, just simply working more at current jobs so no skills required) would you make 400k by just working 60 hours a week?
I know an attending in NYC that works 60 hours a week doing a combination of PP, CL and on-call. Probably makes around 430-450k/year.
I personally have seen emails offering straight out of residency, 250k for 40 hrs/week in a decent/coastal location, and 300k for 40 hrs/week in less desirable location. And you can supplement these base incomes with weekend on calls. So possible to make 300k on the coasts, 350k otherwise if you are willing to do 50-55 hour weeks.
Spoke with a classmate who has been out a few years and he is doing 30 hours of contract work and 8-9 hrs of PP where he sees 25 ish pts mind u. No weekends, nights or calls. Says he is getting roughly 400k for 48wks but this is with no benefits at all. One of the better deals I've heard of but since its not w2 maybe its more common idk.
Okay so attendings realistically if you worked 60 hours a week at jobs accessible to you (not opening up a profitable pp, just simply working more at current jobs so no skills required) would you make 400k by just working 60 hours a week?
Yes, but like others have said, you'll burn out.
I agree but to play Devils advocate why can all other specialties easily push 60-70 hrs a week and psych will only burn out?
Because of the nature of work. Behavioral medicine is one of the most taxing of the specialties due to personality dynamics. I do believe seeing 40 HTN and Diabetics who are poorly controlled and non-treatment adherence has similar circumstances.
It really boils down to the long hours and the numbers seen by moving the meat through the assembly line. Current medical reimbursement models encourages this as reimbursement is tied to the clinical encounter only. Whether you are in PP or employed, it comes down to needing to see more to earn more, especially with current student loan debt which weighs heavily upon people.
Recently a psychiatry journal attempted to education about burnout by telling physicians to use mindfulness (which is another discussion in of itself), demonstrate more empathy (already spending too much energy through attempting to motivate change?) and demonstrate a higher level of professionalism (ie: keep your mouth shut and continue to work). These elements are all contributory towards burnout leading to poor physician outcomes.
The days about the psychiatrist opening up shop at 9am and leaving at 3pm are long gone as reimbursements are garbage.
I really agree with your comments on the burnout literature - there is a trend of framing a capacity to tolerate an excessive workload as a physician competency, when in reality the systems need to change and strategic rebellion is indicated.
I have a different perspective on the reimbursement - it's probably too low, but the psychotherapy add on codes allow for more satisfying and well compensated clinical encounters, where you can generate more revenue by giving more to each patient rather than by seeing more patients.
I look at it this way, therapists irrespective of the credentials have undergone 1000s of hours of psychotherapy and supervision. We haven't.