Autocrine or Paracrine?

Discussion in 'Medical Students - DO' started by edgar, Mar 17, 1999.

  1. edgar

    edgar Senior Member
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    Dear DO Students and Premeds,

    I have another question. I'm working on my thesis proposal and I have come across two terms that I'm sure I had learned once before but have since forgotten. Can anyone tell me the difference between autocrine and paracrine? Thanks for the help.

    EDGAR
     
  2. DOPhD student

    DOPhD student Senior Member
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    I suggest you look them up in Dorland or Stedman. Afterall, you will begin med school soon.
     
  3. edgar

    edgar Senior Member
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    DOPhD,

    Great idea, I should read those books/authors. But who the heck are they, and what field are they in?

    Thanks,

    EDGAR
     
  4. StillBorn

    StillBorn Member
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    They are both medical dictionaries.
     
  5. epilido

    epilido Member
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    From Stedman's Medical Dictionary....

    autocrine: Denoting self-stimulation through cellular production of a factor and a specific receptor for it.


    paracrine: Referring to the release of locally acting substances from endocrine cells directly into the intercellular space of adjacent cells.

     
  6. ReneeWB

    ReneeWB Senior Member
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    The way it was explained to me in my advanced physiology class, was that autocrine cells are self stimulating (auto=self) and that paracrine cells are cells that are stimulated by other cells or substances released from other cells.
     
  7. JONM

    JONM Member
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    What school did you say you were going to EDGAR? I hope you don't take this too personally, but this is basic stuff and you should start reviewing now if you want to survive in med. school. To be honest, I'm ashamed that a future colleague of mine doesn't know what Stedman's or Dorland's dictionary is.
     
  8. edgar

    edgar Senior Member
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    JONM,

    I can't help but take all your criticisms personally. Sorry, it's been a while since I've taken the MCAT and studied medical terms that I do not have contact with every day. Why don't you back off, your criticisms aren't helpful like the other posters, you are just here to attack me. And don't worry buddy, I'm going to do fine in medical school.

    EDGAR
     
  9. summerb

    summerb Member
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    I don't see any point in that comment JONM.

    [This message has been edited by summerb (edited 03-18-99).]
     
  10. ReneeWB

    ReneeWB Senior Member
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    I agree with Summer, Jon. I did not encounter the terms autocrine and paracrine until my upper level phys class. As far as knowing about Stedman's and Dorland's, I probably wouldn't recognize the names had I not been a Medical Transcriptionist for 2 years. I don't recall ever seeing one in my undergraduate classes. Thus far I have been pretty happy with the way this site reaches out and really tries to help others (unlike the Princeton Review site). Let's not stoop to that level.


     
  11. The point people is not that he didn't know the terms, but what I find a little disconcerting Edgar is that you didn't have the ability to pick up a biology, physiology or any other kind of text book and look up the meanings yourself?
     
  12. edgar

    edgar Senior Member
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    Well I guess I thought with all these reasonably intelligent and friendly people on this website, that I could get some help. If I'm going to be judged and attacked for asking a reasonable question, than fine, I won't ask on a public thread like this. Next time I guess I should just e-mail the people that gave me helpful suggestions. I'm disappointed that there are cynical people who just want to be condescending and show everybody how smart they are. I don't appreciate my intelligence or knowledge base being questioned, especially my fitness for medical school. As far as I'm concerned I do have what it takes to succeed in medical school, I wouldn't have gotten 6 interview offers and 2 acceptances if I didn't. Thanks again for all those people who helped answer my question and did not judge me or think I was stupid. You folks are why I am happy for being given the chance to enter the healing profession, as for the others try not to stoop to personal attacks and if you feel you must go to Princeton Review and I'm sure you'll feel at home there.

    EDGAR
     
  13. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member
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    Wow, I can't believe you guys are trashing Edgar like this -- but I imagine you do this on a pretty regular basis to others as well.

    I'm not too proud to admit that I had only a vague notion of the two terms. So I picked up my 1300 page Biology textbook and discovered why I wasn't well informed: the entire book explains autocrine function in one sentence that hardly offers a sophisticated explanation. I happen to know that Edgar is working his butt off on his masters thesis and if his textbook is as bad as mine, why shouldn't he ask his internet pals for some input rather than drop everything to visit the library?

    If you guys want to show off, next time drop your arrogant, premedical demeanors and answer the question in a professional and verbose manner.

    Gregory

     
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  14. ReneeWB

    ReneeWB Senior Member
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    Gregory,

    Your posts are always so eloquent and well thought out. I am really sorry that I won't be attending school with you. But I believe you will be a wonderful physician -- just because of the way you speak to others through this forum. Your patients will be very fortunate!

    I was very disappointed to see some of the replies that Edgar got. I guess with so many more people coming to this site, this will happen. But I also appreciate that there were many more positive replies than negative ones. As I said earlier, let's not stoop to the level of some of the posters at PR. Please!


     
  15. KennyP

    KennyP Junior Member
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    I just wanted to throw my two cents in here....

    Answering a public thread in such an antagonistic manner potentially compromises the value of this site. The last thing that "we" (JONM) should be doing is discouraging
    questions or creating an environment in which hesistancy is encountered before posting a message. I take comfort in the fact that any question I may have will be welcome and treated with respect. The last thing I should be worried about is someone on this site (JONM) being "ashamed" of me!

    ------------------

    Keneth C.Plowey (PCOM '03)
    [email protected]

     
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  16. Listen, I was not personally questioning Edgars fitness for medical school, only questioning the fact that looking something up in a text book is pretty easy and should be the first thing you do.

    Next, the thing I am happiest about is that I won't be attending school with Gullick! What is your problem? People are more than within their right to post what they want given it isn't vulgar. If people take offense than don't post anything people could respond to. Please stay in Florida when you graduate from NOVA and get that chip off your shoulder about osteopathic medicine. It is not a different profession than allopathic school and we don't need to keep hearin how you chose osteopathic medicine over allopathic. Do we really need to see in every post you send that you were accepted to NOVA for 2003?

    There are plenty of caring, compassionate people who aren't goody-goodies like a lot of people in this room.
     
  17. ReneeWB

    ReneeWB Senior Member
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    Dogboy,

    Please give us a break! Everytime you post a reply it is sooooo negative. You must be lacking a little self-confidence if you feel the need to belittle others in this way. Use your common sense a little, and understand that when someone asks for help that does not mean they are asking to be critiqued! I have to say again that if you want to continue slamming others, go visit the PR site -- you will be in good company. We don't need that stuff here.
     
  18. HeatherR

    HeatherR Member
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    Without a good medical dictionary it can be hard to get good, clear definitions, and the difference between paracrine and autocrine is a prime example! Few non-med students (including premeds, grad students,...) would even think of getting a medical dictionary unless someone recommended it, so don't give edgar such a hard time over this guys.

    Now, here's my advice. Everyone who is even considering studying medicine, ... should go out and buy a good medical dictionary! It will be the best purchase you'll ever make. I was given one as a graduation gift (awesome gift idea for any premed). I prefer Steadmans as it comes with the whole dictionary on CD Rom for only a few bucks more. Some people prefer Dorlands though - either is probably sufficient.

    At the risk of repeating myself - Everyone go out to your favorite bookstore and buy a medical dictionary - you'll thank me for it!!!!!!!!!!!


     
  19. JONM

    JONM Member
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    Edgar, I agree that my criticism could have been worded differently so that I didn't come off as such a pompous ass, but I would like you to know that regardless of your innocent intentions, your question shows a natural instinct to lean on others.

    When I was an undergrad. premed we were required to have a medical dictionary. In graduate school I was not allowed to ask questions unless I could reference at least two sources which did not answer my question.

    We are all taking this a little too seriously, I agree. Edgar, I will not yield on the severity of the rest of my comments though. You are in for a rude awakening in professional school if you don't learn to be self-reliant for information like this. Not everyone lives in Greg and Renee's blissful osteopathic world. Actually, these are the people you will need to look out for the most. And believe me, your superiors in the clinical setting will not be as kind as they are.

    If you guys want to show the world that osteopaths are just as competent, you better toughen up a bit. You will be expected to know a hell of alot more than your friends at the allopathic schools.


     
  20. ReneeWB

    ReneeWB Senior Member
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    Just curious about your comment that Gregory and I are the ones that Edgar should look out for the most. Are you implying that we pose some sort of threat?

    Regarding your comment that we should toughen up a bit -- I am confident that Gregory and I have faced some pretty tough obstacles in our pursuit of medical school. You seem reluctant to address either of us directly. I cannot speak for Gregory, but I personally would be willing to give you specifics if you would like. I am very proud of my accomplishments and I resent people like you with your holier than thou attitude. Believe me, your patients will resent it too. You have a lot to learn about communication!
     
  21. edgar

    edgar Senior Member
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    JONM,


    Maybe I was too quick to be on the defensive, but I must admit that I was hurt by your comments. I've worked damn hard to get to where I am now, I'm not sure how you can understand how hard it was when I had to study my ass off and help my father recover from his head injury. It was very hard because at first we didn't know if he'd live, and it was just as hard helping him adjust to life after rehabilitation. So I'm confident if I can handle these life circumstances, I can more than handle the stresses of medical school. And please do not insinuate that my friends Gregory and Renee are "weak sisters" that I need to look out for in medical school. The only difference I can see between the two medical professions is that DO schools like to take older students, and people who don't always have the best grades/MCATs but have shown with their accomplishments that they can be more than competent medical students and physicians. I heed to the advice of a DO I know, he says DOs may often feel insecure because there are fewer of them in the medical profession, and I don't think we are helping the osteopathic profession by in-fighting within our own group. I sincerely hope that your own attitudes toward people soften up, you patients will love you if you are sensitive to their concerns. And I do not apologize for being a "goody-goody", that's the way I am and I won't change that aspect of my personality for anyone.

    Sincerely,

    EDGAR
     
  22. justwannabadoc

    justwannabadoc Senior Member
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    JONM:

    As an undergrad, I was NOT required to have a medical dictionary. I know about Stedman's and in fact have one but have never heard of Dorland. I hope that doesn't hurt my ability to become a good physician. I'm sorry you went to a graduate school where you were forbidden to ask questions. I went to a school where professors encouraged people to speak up if they didn't understand the material. I hope that doesn't make my program "less" than yours. I payed tuition to be taught. If I wanted to learn in the manner you describe, I could have saved my money, gone to a library and read, and when I didn't understand something, email someone who could explain it.

    In terms of asking for help, I think anyone who is willing to do so has a great attribute. It means that he/she is wiiling to admit that he/she is lacking in some manner or in this case, doesn't know everything (no offense Edgar). Too often people are afraid to seek help because of embarassment, perceived weakness by others, or insecurity. What happens? In the most extreme case, suicide. Obviously, that's not going to happen in this case. My point is that I applaud anyone who seeks help and we as future physicians should jump at any opportunity to do so. Isn't that why we chose medicine as a career, to HELP OTHERS? You may think that you will succeed on your own in medical school and if that's the case, then great. However, many of your classmates will need assistance on occasion and I hope you will find it in your heart to help them. If not, at least turn them away without attacking them.

    DOGBOY:
    It sounds like you've been privelaged to have access to great textbooks that explain everything clearly. Good for you! However, most of us aren't so lucky and nearly all our texts are lacking in some manner. Why did you assume that Edgar hadn't researched his question already? Don't you think that it's possible that he did and simply didn't come up with an answer suitable for his purposes? I certainly didn't think he asked because he was being a lazy ass.

    I think you should go watch Bambi. Fast-forward to the scene where Bambi is talking to Thumper and his Mom. To give a quick summary of the events, Thumper says something to Bambi which wasn't very nice and for which his mother quickly admonished him. The lesson Thumper learned was (paraphrased): if you don't have something nice or helpful to say, don't say it. By this I mean, don't make rude, hurtful, personal, and insensitive comments. This does not preclude you from making a statement that would force someone to face reality but do it in a manner that helps them and does not make them automatically tune you out. In terms of your comments to Gregory, why did you single him out? When he commented about the attacks on Edgar, he did not refer to any one specific person though it was obvious to whom it was directed. Yet, still no specific names. In addition, his request was completely justified whereas yours, which contained personal attacks, were not. All you need to do was state that we should all be free to post what we want. Why tell him to stay in Florida?

    In conclusion, if you feel compelled to attack other premeds, go to Princeton Review's site. You can have a blast. I'll even make it easy for you.

    discuss.review.com/forums/index.cfm?CFID=1250696&CFTOKEN=992&CFApp=16&

    This site was created with the intention of providing a good resource for premeds, medical students (DO and MD), and I guess dental students as well. If our desire to limit comments to helpful and non-attacking ones makes us "goody-goodies," then I will be proud to change my SOMA name to "Goody-Goody."

    [This message has been edited by justwannabadoc (edited 03-19-99).]
     
  23. JONM

    JONM Member
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    I love how you all rag on people for posting negative comments and then proceed to bash the Princeton Review site. For those of you who have done this, I guess you should look up the term hypocrisy. Renee, if honesty makes me a poor communicator I guess I just won't be able to live up to your holier than thou definition of "a good communicator". Now if you'll excuse me, I have to go watch Bambi again so I'll know how to play nice with the other children. Get real!!!!!

     
  24. justwannabadoc

    justwannabadoc Senior Member
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    JONM:

    No one has come out directly and "bashed" the Princeton Review site. People may have directed you there or stated that there is a lot of negativity at the site but no one has said that people there are all #!? or that the advice given there is full of #!? Therefore, your contention that we are all hypocrites is unfounded. As for your communication style, there are ways of getting your point across without offending other people. True, some people are more sensitive than others and cultural differences may turn an innocent action into an offensive one but that has not happened here. The reaction by several different people to your posts should tell you that you have much to improve in how you communicate with others.
     
  25. JONM

    JONM Member
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    I suppose if I work really hard, one day I will be able to communicate just as effectively as the rest of you.
     
  26. This site needs people like me and JONM who have a sense of reality and openly express our views as opposed to acting like the most wonderful people on earth, that all is good and only osteopathic physicians can communicate efffectively, care about people, deserve to be doctors, and whatever other nonsense has been spewed from Gullick, Renee, Edgar, etc..If I am offensive to people, GOOD! They don't have to respond to me or listen to me. I certainly am not offended when you goody-goodies respond in tears that I have hurt poor little Edgars feelings or Gregory is in a tizzy because my choice of words may have offended Ms. or Mr, osteopathic America out there.

    If you guys haven't figured it out yet, I like pushing your buttons. Obviously I am successful because many of you are always upset. By the way, I can admit when I may have neglected to consider all aspects of a statement. Someone mentioned maybe Edgar did look up autocrine and paracrine and still was unclear so asked here. I didn't even consider that so I do apologize if that was the case. It is always good to admit if you have been hasty or rash in a decision.
     
  27. Gregory Gulick

    Gregory Gulick Senior Member
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    Gregory in a tizzy? LOL! That'll be the day. It would take a legion of DOGBOYS to put a dent in my confidence.

    And if YOU haven't noticed, I never address your personal attacks against ME. I don't take you or JONM seriously and I blow off your remarks against me as newbie bunk. In fact, it feeds my ego that you find my confidence so threatening.

    Flame away, my friend.

    [​IMG]

    [This message has been edited by Gregory Gulick (edited 03-20-99).]
     
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  28. StillBorn

    StillBorn Member
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    I have resisted this thread because generally speaking it has been a poopfest, but many of you premedical students are missing an very pertinent point that DOGBOY was trying to make (although in a somewhat confrontory manner). The original question gives the reader the impression that edgar is trying to get others to do his work for him--either he is too lazy to do it, or he doesn't understand how to conduct rudimentary research. Now I am say that either of these is necessarily the case, only that that is the perception a person might get after reading the post.

    All of you are going off on the whole medical dictionary and text book issue...I went to HotBot and did a simple net search for "autocrine paracrine definition" and came up with http://arbl.cvmbs.colostate.edu/hbooks/pathphys/endocrine/basics/hormones.html which gives a very concise definition of both terms. Elapsed time: <2 minutes.

    I think DOGBOY jumped on edgar pretty hard, but he was kind compared to what a med school instructor or preceptor would have said had he been asked that question, or any other that smacks of a student not doing his/her own leg work, and that is what DOGBOY was pointing out. In my previous incarnation a a college instructor (before med school) I used to tell my students: never ask for information, information is easy to find and you should find it. Always ask for explanation, for while information is easy to find, it is not always clear or understandable.

    It is a concept that has saved me a lot of pain in school.

    [This message has been edited by StillBorn (edited 03-19-99).]
     
  29. justwannabadoc

    justwannabadoc Senior Member
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    DOGBOY: No one is opposed to you making us face reality. The issue is the manner in which you do it. Why put your point across in an offensive way when it can be accomplished just as effectively in a non-offensive manner? Being civil often works better because it gives people the opportunity to listen. Attacking them will only make them turn away. Being bothered by the way certain things were said in no way means that one is trying to be "Ms. or Mr, osteopathic America." It simply means that people prefer to converse in a mature and friendly manner. Your opinions are certainly valuable, just as any other person's is, and you should certainly at liberty to express them. It would just be nice if they were presented in a less scathing way. By the way, I appreciate your apology for not considering that Edgar may have tried to look up an answer and simply didn't find one. It's a nice show of integrity on your part.
     
  30. 2003

    2003 Senior Member
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    I've been skiing in the Rockies (Banff) the last while and it seems I missed some fun. I wasn't going to comment but I'm used to getting slammed on here for presenting facts or asking questions when I do not know something and thought Edgar had it rough.

    Are there any social science people here? Does anyone know what the fundamental attribution error is? Before you slam me for not looking it up let me tell you that I do know what it means. Basically, it is when you attribute someone's behavior to an underlying/internal disposition or characteristic (i.e., the way someone is) rather than an external characteristic (i.e., circumstances). For example, let's say (hypothetically) that you see someone slip in a restaurant. You are much more likely to conclude they are clumsy than to think that there was something slippery on the floor (water, food etc.). In another (again only hypothetical) example, let's "pretend" someone asks a basic or intermediate-level physiology question. You might think that this represents a lack in that person's ability to find out answers by and for themselves to what you think are simple questions (or at least, ones easy to find answers to). Another possibility is that this student researched their question in their books at home and couldn't find an answer (or was just on his computer when he remembered his question) and then (knowing all of his resources) decided that he'd ask the question on this site (since it was late evening) and go to the library the next day if no one could answer it. It's not like this student would never find out the answer by himself if this site disappeared but was appropriately using one of his resources. It is, of course, no surprise that people think the former and not the latter. There is a reason, afterall, the fundamental attribution error is called an ERROR!
     
  31. 2003

    2003 Senior Member
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    If anyone has questions they'd ever like to ask me, I'll answer them to the best of my ability. Also, I'd like to think that my classmates this fall (especially Gregory and others who have only the required science courses for medicine) would ask me questions if they are having difficulty before they spend hours in the library trying to find textbooks that explain it in a way that makes sense to them. I have taken anatomy and way too much upper-level biochemistry. If I can save my classmates a couple of hours by explaining something clearly than maybe in a different course they can do the same for me. In medical school, when time is of the essence, we will all look things up when we have to... but the ones who ask professors and classmates will often save themselves precious time.
     
  32. edgar

    edgar Senior Member
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    Guys,

    I did try to look it up but my books were really basic from my college days. Even my Kaplan study books didn't have the information. I did not mean to ruffle everybody's panties, I think next time I'll keep my questions to myself.

    EDGAR
     
  33. ReneeWB

    ReneeWB Senior Member
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    Edgar,

    Please don't let the negative posters stop you from asking others for help. You can e-mail me anytime.

    Renee
     
  34. justwannabadoc

    justwannabadoc Senior Member
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    Ditto on that. Edgar, the vast majority of the responses you received were positive in nature. Do not now or ever withhold any questions you have. If one person doesn't answer you, go to another, and another if you have to. Like Renee said, don't let a few negative comments force you to change your ways.
     
  35. danny

    danny Member
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    Just another comment from the peanut gallery

    Whenever someone asks a question or is in a particular situation, there are 3 possibilities: positive repsonse,negative or no response. Everyone wants a positive answer. Sometimes you hear something you don't like or appreciate. Live with it and brush it off. Learn from it if possible and try not to put yourself in a vulnerable position again. However, don't be afraid to 'ask again'. In other words, don't change b/c someone said something that bothered you. It WILL happen again. Have confidence and say 'who cares'. Remember, opinions are like 'buttholes', everyone has one. Don't be so sensitive b/c people will pick up on this and try to bring you down. Not everyone in this world is nice.
    Negaitive comments could be made by a person who is sitting there laughing watching how easy it is to offend people. Don't fall victim. You don't owe these people any explanation. At the same time, sometimes you will pick up a tidbit of advice w/c is portrayed in a warped manner.
    danny

     
  36. Henry

    Henry Senior Member
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    So far, I can only see a few people answer edgar's question. Is the term autocrine and paracrine that easy to explain? I don't think so.

    Yes, you can find in a dictionary with a definition, but many do not expalin it in detail.

    There are so many secreted substance , such as interleukins, that have both auto and paracrine function, how do we make a clear define line between.

    For Dogboy
    You like to test people's patience and endurance towards your attitudes. Who are you trying to act? Are you that significant? I wonder do you have the capability to judge others?

    Do you have a degree of phychology so that you are qualify to give out professional judgement about other people?

    Both Dogboy and JONM think they make this board more fun or more challenge. Don't ever think you are so significant. Who are you? What is your qualification?

    With or without me, this website will still go on. With or without anyone, this website will still be here. No one is better than anyone here.

    I can't imagine to see someone in this website enjoy to trigger or even irritate others just to see how other will reponse. Are you Dogboy and JONM doing some sort of anger trigger threshold experiment? If you are, how good is your own data? Will you ever get upset or angry when someone irritate you or insult your intelligent? More, maybe someone even doubt you have a brain inside the skull, will you get angry?

    I would like to see your presentation of the "anger trigger experiment" data and be a crtique on it.

    When you went to your medical school interview, did you behave the way you are doing now? If no, why? If yes, which school you are going to?

    I know people majoring in music and dancing and get into medical school. They may not have the extensive foundation we science student have, but do we have theirs? Am I going to judge them? No, I won't.

    What does compassion really mean? Did we practice it here in site? That include myself as a way to remind myself.

    I have posted a question in regarding holistic medicine, I wish all of you will join in and tell me what is holistic medicine.

    At the begining, I thought I know what it is, the more I see, the more I can not define it with a clear boundary. Such as fundalmental question, I am sure Dogboy and JONM will go ahead and look it up from the dictionary and tell me and insult me again.

    However, satisfy my hunger of knowledge. Tell me all you know.

    [This message has been edited by Henry (edited 03-20-99).]
     
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  37. Henry,

    JONM and I are presenting the results of our "anger trigger experiment" this week in NYC if you can make it up here. You and Gregory and Renee and Edgar and several others on this board have made key contributions to the study and should be commended.

    So you mean to say I shouldn't make offensive comments to others, for example such as " do you have a brain inside your skull." Is that what you mean? That is interesting. I wonder why people like you Henry can make those comments and at the same time scold others like myself and JONM. Just a thought.

    Most of the rest of your comment was number one unreadable and number two had nothing at all to do with the previous posts. You seem to have gotten so 'ANGRY' that you started spewing venom towards me and JONM and didn't realize you were babbling nonsense.

    Alas my poor NOVA student, if I could give you a word of advice. Relax a little, look up Mr. Gullick,( you know he was accepted to NOVA for the 2003 Class), and just try to be a good doctor and don't take things so personal. Life is hard enough at times to get so worked up over comments from people you will never meet. Take this board with a grain of salt and enjoy it and if you don't agree with a statement of someone elses than you don't agree with it. Big deal! Life is more interesting when people have different views.

     
  38. Henry

    Henry Senior Member
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    Dogboy,

    I don't think I am angry or taking things personally. However, you have been attacking other people's intelligent and capability, YOU did make a personal attack on Edgar.

    If you act as the same way you advice me, none of these reponses will be on board. Relax, I am and always be. Are you?

    However, if you "relax" a little more, take other people posting a little easier, this board will have lesser personal attack but more contribution.

    To clarify a point:
    I did not say "do you have a brain inside your skull." Please ready carefully, I was posting a question, stating, "if others say you don't have a brain inside the skull, will you get angry?" This is a question to illustrate how Edgar's feeling after being unfairly insulted by you. Can you read it again. It is very clear. I am not insulting you or anyone, I am asking how you feel if someone did that to you.

    To make it even more clear, I just want to know how you will feel if you get the same treatment, the same way you have given to Edgar.

    In case you are still unclear, what I want to say is: Treat others the way you like others to treat you. Unless you enjoy being insult by others. Let me know if you are those that enjoy to be insulted. However, I don't think you are.

    Finally, if you still want to post your "experimental data in this board, I am more than 100% willing to see the result.

    This is the reason we have internet, so that we can retrieve information for far away source. I hope you can understand that.
     
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  39. mevannorden

    mevannorden Member
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    What an interesting conversation. I can vouch, as others have, that before entering medical school I didn't have a clue what Stedman's or Dorland's was. I would also guess that my text books would not have been detailed enough to give a good explanation of autocrine and paracrine. As to the seeming conflict between osteopaths and allopaths, to quote some obscure Calfornian "Can't we all just get along?"! I am currently attending the Des Moines osteopathic school. I chose osteopathy over allopathy (I could have attended the University of Kansas Medical School), because it fit my personal goals and desires. I have friends studying at allopathic schools, and I would trust them with any patients I my have someday. However, the same goes for my colleagues. Osteopathic graduates are no less qualified than our MD counterparts. In fact, I've heard from several people (not associated with my school) that osteopathic students tend to be better prepared clinically than allopathic students, in general. The flip side is, according to these people, is that the allopathic students are better prepared academically. Personally, I'll take clincal preparation over academic, as long as I'm not grossly deficient in the academic area. Judging from my education so far, I don't think I'll be deficient at all. So, JONM, you don't need to worry about Renee, et al. They'll do just fine in medical school, and I'm sure they'll be great doctors. They seem to have a certain quality that is vital in doctors...compassion.
     
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  40. JONM

    JONM Member
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    I have never read so much garbage in my life. This thread is nothing but an example of how difficult it is for intellectuals to receive constructive criticism. I RESPECT everyone's opinion, but I do not AGREE with many. I am certain that I never told anyone that they will not do well in medical school simply because they have not heard of Stedman and Dorland. Quite frankly, I don't use either for a reference. The reason they don't go into detail about these definitions is because these are not difficult concepts to grasp.

    I believe I have only tried to offer some advice with my comments. The advice is: become self-reliant. Regardless of whether you are were a theatre major as an undergrad. or not, you are a medical student now. People's lives will be in our hands soon.

    But for now, the only thing in my hands is my breakfast. Greg Gulick's comments have induced vomiting once again.







     
  41. NickCVM

    NickCVM Senior Member
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    I've missed a lot of fun! People are just so lovely!!
    I was just wondering if my 16pds. Cat could be included into the study mentioned above. Here are my results:

    4 dogs approached the house (in a 2 day period), 3 got scratched, 1 ran away at the first sight of my cat.

    5 people known for owning dogs tried to pet the cat: result: 4 were bleeding at the end of the psychologically strenuous experience, 1 was crying.

    5 people known for owning other pets (2 cats, 1 rabbit, 2 pigs) were allowed to attempt to pet the cat and the cat was happy to let them!?

    Conclusion: My cat gets irritated at the first sight of a DOG or a DOGBOY/DOGMAN/DOGWOMAN or simply a person owing dogs (p<0.005).
    I hope that my positive contribution would be appreciated and would strengthen some of the flaws and weaknesses that might be present in the "anger trigger experiment".
    So long
    --Nicolas--
    WesternU'03
     
  42. NickCVM

    NickCVM Senior Member
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    By the way I had never heard of Dorland nor stedman. After checking my personal library dough I happened to have the "Dorland". To me it was just a "medical dictionary". I'll try to say Dorland from now on so I don't look like I'm an in-educated fool.

     
  43. Henry

    Henry Senior Member
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    JONM,

    Can you define what do you mean by "constructive criticism"?

    For example, if I tell you I have no idea about what is Dorland's dictionary, are you also ashamed of me? Is that a contructive criticism?

    As for me, a critique with respect is constructive. A critique that is targetting on insult or making others to feel inferior is destructive.


     
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  44. Henry

    Henry Senior Member
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    Nick

    Your posting is a good one, it is a funny way to express how we, including myself, have behaved. It is a very good criticism and I receive it with respect.

    Your posting is a good reminder for me.
     
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  45. G Mangle

    G Mangle Junior Member
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    EDGER,

    TRY GUYTON'S PHYSIOLOGY. IT IS A GREAT TEXT FOR THESE TYPE OF QUESTIONS. YOU CAN ALSO GET SOME PRETTY SIMPLE AND DOWN TO EARTH ARTICLES ON ANY SUBJECT THAT IS WRITTEN BY PHDS AND DOCS ALIKE ON MEDLINE AND OTHER RESEARCH SERVICES. BY THE WAY, NEVER WORRY ABOUT NEGATIVE COMMENTS OR QUESTIONS. BOTH OF THESE ARE COMMONPLACE TO BOTH SCIENCE AND MEDICINE. THESE ARE THE THINGS YOU MUST OVERCOME DAILY TO TREAT AND DIAGNOSE PATIENTS. I KNOW FIRST HAND. TAKE ALL THE BAD STUFF AND MIX IT WITH THE GOOD STUFF AND YOUR DAYS WILL COME OUT ON A HAPPY EVEN MEDIUM.

    GOD BLESS
     
  46. MOXIEJEN DO 2003

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    Regarding the Mr./Ms. Osteopathic Medicine competition...is this a pageant? If there isn't a bathing suit portion, count me in!
     

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