Average salary IM Docs... In NYC or big cities? Is it possible to make more by working 40+??

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Hi all. Jw, i read average IM salaries are 180-220 depending on the city.
But if anyone knows, what are typical salaries like in big cities?

Is it possible to make 400-500k if you work 60-80 hours? I know thats common in psych, wondering if its the same in IM.

K thanks.

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Hi all. Jw, i read average IM salaries are 180-220 depending on the city.
But if anyone knows, what are typical salaries like in big cities?

Is it possible to make 400-500k if you work 60-80 hours? I know thats common in psych, wondering if its the same in IM.

K thanks.

As a hospital employee never. Unless you are IM then go into hospital administration.

Private practice? If you are the boss and you have an assembly line practice then you can make far more than that. But this holds true to any specialty.
 
Hi all. Jw, i read average IM salaries are 180-220 depending on the city.
But if anyone knows, what are typical salaries like in big cities?

Is it possible to make 400-500k if you work 60-80 hours? I know thats common in psych, wondering if its the same in IM.

K thanks.
Outpt? Not initially, you need a significant amount of patients to generate that many RVUs/total billed, which takes years. Inpt would be possible, but you would need to work/pickup most of your off weeks.
 
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Hi all. Jw, i read average IM salaries are 180-220 depending on the city.
But if anyone knows, what are typical salaries like in big cities?

Is it possible to make 400-500k if you work 60-80 hours? I know thats common in psych, wondering if its the same in IM.

K thanks.

For hospitalist, yes you can make 400 to 500k easy in a city >2 million people (within 45 min drive from the downtown center). At least for the midwest from what I can tell, on the offers I have.

20 shifts a month equating to 60 hr a week brings you into the 400s at one job, and into 500s at another there
 
For hospitalist, yes you can make 400 to 500k easy in a city >2 million people (within 45 min drive from the downtown center). At least for the midwest from what I can tell, on the offers I have.

20 shifts a month equating to 60 hr a week brings you into the 400s at one job, and into 500s at another there

In my large East Coast City, working extra 5 shifts a month (working total of 20 shifts a month every month) would put your salary around 325-350k a year. 25 shifts a month would definitely put you over 400k in my area.
 
In my large East Coast City, working extra 5 shifts a month (working total of 20 shifts a month every month) would put your salary around 325-350k a year. 25 shifts a month would definitely put you over 400k in my area.

Accurate for my current gig in a large east coast city (but it's not NYC). For the past 6 months since I started from finishing residency I have banked 162K working 20 shifts a month. Plan to continue this the rest of the next 6 months to complete ~320K in 1 year.

This makes me wonder..financially, does it even make sense to do a 3 year cards fellowship when you would be deferring your real income for another 3 years, letting student loans pile up + skipping out on compounding investment growth in the market? Don't cards attendings work 50-60 hours a week by default (at least the consultants at my hospitals describe it like they do, with clinic all day plus inpatient consults in the evening/early morning...) to make their 300K paycheck?
 
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Accurate for my current gig in a large east coast city (but it's not NYC). For the past 6 months since I started from finishing residency I have banked 162K working 20 shifts a month. Plan to continue this the rest of the next 6 months to complete ~320K in 1 year.

This makes me wonder..financially, does it even make sense to do a 3 year cards fellowship when you would be deferring your real income for another 3 years, letting student loans pile up + skipping out on compounding investment growth in the market? Don't cards attendings work 50-60 hours a week by default (at least the consultants at my hospitals describe it like they do, with clinic all day plus inpatient consults in the evening/early morning...) to make their 300K paycheck?

A quick google search revealed that the median salary in NYC for a cardiologist is ~$450K. Seems like it makes financial sense...
 
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A quick google search revealed that the median salary in NYC for a cardiologist is ~$450K. Seems like it makes financial sense...

Did it say the median hours worked is 40 a week to make that salary? If not you missed my point.

One cardiologist survey in 2016 showed $410000 overall compensation, but 64% of them were spending 45 hours or more seeing patients (36% overall doing 60 or more hours). Those hours do not include time spent per week on paperwork/administration, which 51% spent 10 or more hours per week on.

Add it up and over half of these cardiologists are spending like 60 hours a week on their job to make $410000? After 3 years of additional training? Compare that to hospitalist gigs that easily make 400-500K by working 60 hours a week (20 twelve hr shifts per month)
 
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Did it say the median hours worked is 40 a week to make that salary? If not you missed my point.

One cardiologist survey in 2016 showed $410000 overall compensation, but 64% of them were spending 45 hours or more seeing patients (36% overall doing 60 or more hours). Those hours do not include time spent per week on paperwork/administration, which 51% spent 10 or more hours per week on.

Add it up and over half of these cardiologists are spending like 60 hours a week on their job to make $410000? After 3 years of additional training? Compare that to hospitalist gigs that easily make 400-500K by working 60 hours a week (20 twelve hr shifts per month)

A cardiologist who works 40 hours a week is very rare. These guys usually work hard during the day for the $ they make... plus call.
 
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Accurate for my current gig in a large east coast city (but it's not NYC). For the past 6 months since I started from finishing residency I have banked 162K working 20 shifts a month. Plan to continue this the rest of the next 6 months to complete ~320K in 1 year.

This makes me wonder..financially, does it even make sense to do a 3 year cards fellowship when you would be deferring your real income for another 3 years, letting student loans pile up + skipping out on compounding investment growth in the market? Don't cards attendings work 50-60 hours a week by default (at least the consultants at my hospitals describe it like they do, with clinic all day plus inpatient consults in the evening/early morning...) to make their 300K paycheck?

I completely agree with you. In the current job market, fellowship is a total waste of life. Literally. You're putting off "real life" for another 3 years, and those are prime years so even if you somehow recoup the financial losses towards the tail end of your career you've merely bought yourself slightly more money when you're too old to enjoy it the same way you could when you were younger.

Furthermore, who knows how much longer this whole racket is going to last. Demographics are changing,public attitudes toward single payer are changing, and the deficit is growing ever larger. We're moving closer to the point at which the trillions in unfunded liabilities come home to roost. There is something to be said for making hay while the sun shines.
 
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Hi all. Jw, i read average IM salaries are 180-220 depending on the city.
But if anyone knows, what are typical salaries like in big cities?

Is it possible to make 400-500k if you work 60-80 hours? I know thats common in psych, wondering if its the same in IM.

K thanks.

As someone who went thru extensive hospitalist job search about a year ago maybe I can shed some light. Major cities specifically NYC, I found salaries around ranging 160-210k as you move away from the city. Other private jobs in northeast maybe an hour or so away were offering 240k with bonus it could probably climb to 270s and if I pushed it maybe I could make near 300k. People that have been out for a few years were making 270s base. I think the limit of hospitalist is around 300k, sure you can try to make more and work like a madman but that's not something you can carry on long term. You will burn out. I don't see how someone can pull in 400-500k, maybe someone locums can? I didn't look into locums since I didn't want to move every few weeks/months. None of my classmates from class last year are making in the 400-500 range maybe 250s.

My current job is on the lower end in terms of pay but we have caps on patient's and I am usually home by 4. Although I enjoy the work environment, I hate dealing with psych patient, getting dumped on by other services and not something I want to do long term. Fortunately, I was able to get into GI. Going back to fellow residency is gonna suck after making Attending $ for a year. But I paid off a good chunk of my loans and starting salary of GI is 450-500s with partner you can make more.

In the long term, it's just more sustainable and it's something I wanted to do for a long time. It's true as the poster above said we don't know where we are going with the future of healthcare but man being a hospitalists day in and day out is draining.

OP, do your own research, talk to fellow residents or Attendings. Don't rely on SDN, remember this is the place where the average step 1 is 240s lol. Good luck!
 
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As someone who went thru extensive hospitalist job search about a year ago maybe I can shed some light. Major cities specifically NYC, I found salaries around ranging 160-210k as you move away from the city. Other private jobs in northeast maybe an hour or so away were offering 240k with bonus it could probably climb to 270s and if I pushed it maybe I could make near 300k. People that have been out for a few years were making 270s base. I think the limit of hospitalist is around 300k, sure you can try to make more and work like a madman but that's not something you can carry on long term. You will burn out. I don't see how someone can pull in 400-500k, maybe someone locums can? I didn't look into locums since I didn't want to move every few weeks/months. None of my classmates from class last year are making in the 400-500 range maybe 250s.

My current job is on the lower end in terms of pay but we have caps on patient's and I am usually home by 4. Although I enjoy the work environment, I hate dealing with psych patient, getting dumped on by other services and not something I want to do long term. Fortunately, I was able to get into GI. Going back to fellow residency is gonna suck after making Attending $ for a year. But I paid off a good chunk of my loans and starting salary of GI is 450-500s with partner you can make more.

In the long term, it's just more sustainable and it's something I wanted to do for a long time. It's true as the poster above said we don't know where we are going with the future of healthcare but man being a hospitalists day in and day out is draining.

OP, do your own research, talk to fellow residents or Attendings. Don't rely on SDN, remember this is the place where the average step 1 is 240s lol. Good luck!

Are those numbers you're quoting mostly from the week on week off model, and don't include picking up shifts on off days? If so, that's not too shabby as far as a floor is concerned, given how saturated the east coast is for all specialties. Sounds like if one were to move to the sticks in the Midwest instead of the coasts and pick up a few extra shifts on their off days soon you'd be talking real money.
 
Are those numbers you're quoting mostly from the week on week off model, and don't include picking up shifts on off days? If so, that's not too shabby as far as a floor is concerned, given how saturated the east coast is for all specialties. Sounds like if one were to move to the sticks in the Midwest instead of the coasts and pick up a few extra shifts on their off days soon you'd be talking real money.

Yup it's week off and week on. Oh yeah one could money that way but that's difficult with a family. Plus, even when you are single how long are you going to live in the middle of nowhere? A year or two? It will get old after a while but it's a quick way to pay off student loans.
 
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Hmm interesting. thanks for the opinions all.

Just curious because I hear its pretty easy to make 350k+ - 600k working hard as a psychiatrist..?

Is it easier to make that much as a psychiatrist vs as a IM doc?
 
Did it say the median hours worked is 40 a week to make that salary? If not you missed my point.

One cardiologist survey in 2016 showed $410000 overall compensation, but 64% of them were spending 45 hours or more seeing patients (36% overall doing 60 or more hours). Those hours do not include time spent per week on paperwork/administration, which 51% spent 10 or more hours per week on.

Add it up and over half of these cardiologists are spending like 60 hours a week on their job to make $410000? After 3 years of additional training? Compare that to hospitalist gigs that easily make 400-500K by working 60 hours a week (20 twelve hr shifts per month)

I am happy you are happy with your career choice and am happy you are making such good money. But, you guys seem to be posting outliers and are posting best case scenario for hospitalists vs worst case for specialitst. Sure if you want to live 45 minutes outside of a city in the midwest you can make bank as a hospitalist but those specialists are pulling in obscene money. So sure, a hospitalist who is working extra shifts in the middle of nowhere midwest is going to make similar money as a cardiologist working in NYC... You can point to outliers in any specialty. I'm sure someone can find a nephrologist making 600K/yr.

The hours worked aren't as different as you would like to believe. Based upon data available from JAMA, The number of hours worked/wk for the average hospitalist vs the average cardiologist is only a difference of 5-10. So it's like averageing 45 vs 53 rather than 40 vs 60/wk.

There are added issues to this including burnout, feeling like an H&P monkey/perpetual resident, working every other weekend with the common 7 on/7off model. Look, being a hospitalist can be a good gig but there are clear reasons people choose to go into specialties- one of which is so that they don't have to be a hospitalist.

How many cardiologists do you know who left cardiology to be a hospitalist?
 
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I am happy you are happy with your career choice and am happy you are making such good money. But, you guys seem to be posting outliers and are posting best case scenario for hospitalists vs worst case for specialitst. Sure if you want to live 45 minutes outside of a city in the midwest you can make bank as a hospitalist but those specialists are pulling in obscene money. So sure, a hospitalist who is working extra shifts in the middle of nowhere midwest is going to make similar money as a cardiologist working in NYC... You can point to outliers in any specialty. I'm sure someone can find a nephrologist making 600K/yr.

The hours worked aren't as different as you would like to believe. Based upon data available from JAMA, The number of hours worked/wk for the average hospitalist vs the average cardiologist is only a difference of 5-10. So it's like averageing 45 vs 53 rather than 40 vs 60/wk.

There are added issues to this including burnout, feeling like an H&P monkey/perpetual resident, working every other weekend with the common 7 on/7off model. Look, being a hospitalist can be a good gig but there are clear reasons people choose to go into specialties- one of which is so that they don't have to be a hospitalist.

How many cardiologists do you know who left cardiology to be a hospitalist?
N=1 but I know a cardiologist in SLC making $650k working about 55 hours/wk. According to him, other cardiologists in his region are similar.
 
Doing cardiology fellowship made plenty of sense to me. Work hours are similar, more free weekends, better pay, don’t have to deal with stuff I don’t like taking care of (bye bye ambulatory dysfunction and placement), I can still make money moonlighting if I choose (and cards moonlighting is much more lucrative) and I am very happy overall with my career choice anyway.

Will I work really hard in practice? Of course. Is it worth it to not come home hating my life and burned out? Definitely. I think it was worth the 3 extra years for me.
 
Doing cardiology fellowship made plenty of sense to me. Work hours are similar, more free weekends, better pay, don’t have to deal with stuff I don’t like taking care of (bye bye ambulatory dysfunction and placement), I can still make money moonlighting if I choose (and cards moonlighting is much more lucrative) and I am very happy overall with my career choice anyway.

Will I work really hard in practice? Of course. Is it worth it to not come home hating my life and burned out? Definitely. I think it was worth the 3 extra years for me.

You are going to be surprised if you think the work hours are similar. Most 7 on 7 off, 12 hours a day will average 40 hours a week. Or slightly less because a lot of gigs let you leave after you are done your work.

I've never met a cardiologist that works 40 hours a week.
 
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You are going to be surprised if you think the work hours are similar. Most 7 on 7 off, 12 hours a day will average 40 hours a week. Or slightly less because a lot of gigs let you leave after you are done your work.

I've never met a cardiologist that works 40 hours a week.

See Instate’s post - not a huge difference on average. Generally when you first start in practice you DO work harder to build patient base, rep, etc but this tends to plateau and or even out later become less. Also the actual work is variable. Clinic visits are typically more streamlined, there’s echo reading, procedures/cath, and inpatient consults - all to varying degrees depending on the practice model.

Either way my post still stands. I would much rather work a few more hours a week as a cardiologist than hate my life taking care of social admits, PNA, AMS, UTI, ambulatory dysfunction, neuro and surgical dumps, and COPD with half of my weekends taken up by work (whereas most calls for cards are usually 1 in 4-5 weekends). The one week on/off model does not appeal to me especially as I’ll be less interested in perpetually vacationing on my off weeks as I grow older and have kids etc. Most of my hospitalist friends with families usually pick up extra shifts on weeks off because, surprise, they need the cash.

Everyone has their own preference for how they want to practice medicine and live their life. And that’s okay. I simply do not think it’s a waste to do fellowship just because there’s some hospitalist gigs that will make more money, and was trying to address that point being made by some of the other posters.
 
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See Instate’s post - not a huge difference on average. Generally when you first start in practice you DO work harder to build patient base, rep, etc but this tends to plateau and or even out later become less. Also the actual work is variable. Clinic visits are typically more streamlined, there’s echo reading, procedures/cath, and inpatient consults - all to varying degrees depending on the practice model.

Either way my post still stands. I would much rather work a few more hours a week as a cardiologist than hate my life taking care of social admits, PNA, AMS, UTI, ambulatory dysfunction, neuro and surgical dumps, and COPD with half of my weekends taken up by work (whereas most calls for cards are usually 1 in 4-5 weekends). The one week on/off model does not appeal to me especially as I’ll be less interested in perpetually vacationing on my off weeks as I grow older and have kids etc. Most of my hospitalist friends with families usually pick up extra shifts on weeks off because, surprise, they need the cash.

Everyone has their own preference for how they want to practice medicine and live their life. And that’s okay. I simply do not think it’s a waste to do fellowship just because there’s some hospitalist gigs that will make more money, and was trying to address that point being made by some of the other posters.

I am glad tht many people think fellowship is a waste. We need hospitalists and outpatient IM docs.

Realize, there are many sweet gigs in cardiology. I work 1 in 10 weekends and every other weekend I have a 3 or 4 day weekend My hours average a little more than a hospitalist but I have 47 weekends off a year and I don't have to deal with 85 year old UTI/AMS/falls. Oh and I make twice what the hospitalists here make and my partners 3-4x...
 
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I am glad tht many people think fellowship is a waste. We need hospitalists and outpatient IM docs.

Realize, there are many sweet gigs in cardiology. I work 1 in 10 weekends and every other weekend I have a 3 or 4 day weekend My hours average a little more than a hospitalist but I have 47 weekends off a year and I don't have to deal with 85 year old UTI/AMS/falls. Oh and I make twice what the hospitalists here make and my partners 3-4x...
Thanks Instatewaiter. That's amazing. Can I ask you what accounts for the difference in salary between you and your partners (eg do they work more, are they more "senior" partners, are they not general cardiologists but interventional or EP)? Again, thanks!
 
I'm early in my career. They are not.
 
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Signed my contract recently. Major East Coast city, 14 shifts/month = Base > $250k. An extra ~5 shifts/month would put you right around $350k. PTO pay-out would likely put you close to $400k. If you find a good gig (particularly one with relatively less social issues to deal with which are a time-sink) then burnout hopefully won't be so bad. This will be my first job out of residency.
 
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Do hospitalists in Long Island receive higher or lower base contracts than those in the NYC? Is it reasonable to receive an offer for ~220-250K for 14 shifts/month in Long Island or is that too good to be true?
 
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Do hospitalists in Long Island receive higher or lower base contracts than those in the NYC? Is it reasonable to receive an offer for ~220-250K for 14 shifts/month in Long Island or is that too good to be true?
Also wondering this. My gut says Long Island base > NYC base. Not too sure the absolute base value, however.
 
I am glad tht many people think fellowship is a waste. We need hospitalists and outpatient IM docs.

Realize, there are many sweet gigs in cardiology. I work 1 in 10 weekends and every other weekend I have a 3 or 4 day weekend My hours average a little more than a hospitalist but I have 47 weekends off a year and I don't have to deal with 85 year old UTI/AMS/falls. Oh and I make twice what the hospitalists here make and my partners 3-4x...

your partners are making $800,000-$1,000,000 a year or more for working that little? How many patient encounters do you average a day?
 
I am glad tht many people think fellowship is a waste. We need hospitalists and outpatient IM docs.

Realize, there are many sweet gigs in cardiology. I work 1 in 10 weekends and every other weekend I have a 3 or 4 day weekend My hours average a little more than a hospitalist but I have 47 weekends off a year and I don't have to deal with 85 year old UTI/AMS/falls. Oh and I make twice what the hospitalists here make and my partners 3-4x...

That’s an incredible weekend call coverage schedule... doubtful many places have that in general. But I agree, nothing wrong with being a PCP or hospitalist if you like it.
 
Cardiologists (no pay difference between interventional and non-invasive) I know were pulling in $1 mill + with 12 weeks vacay as partners. But as a group they see incredible amount of patients, read more than 40,000 ECHOS a year, thousands of caths, have state of the art CV-ICU and perform most advanced structural heart/valve procedures. They also work tons, and there certainly is burnout with some of the senior partners, plenty are divorced. Every dollar is earned, no one is sitting back and smoking cigars. Hospitalists certainly make less, but my schedule is very flexible and is not 7 on/7 off (which i think is horrible and easily leads to burnout), have more than enough time to travel, and my work is not nearly as complex and stressful.
 
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The third year IM residents in the Saint Louis area have been reporting offers around 270 and as much as 330. The 330 I've heard doesn't include a lot of benefits, so it's just bait. One of the hospitals about an hour and fifteen away is offering roughly 260 base with 30 sign on, 15 moving expenses, and 36 in loan repayment per year, so after the first year you'd still be looking at 296. 7 on 7 off, no procedures. Midwest and South will always give you a little more buck for your bang.
 
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Does anybody have any insight into some of the rural critical access hospitalist jobs available? Wondering if anybody has experience with these as some of recruitment emails I'm getting claim that they pay daily stipend and you keep your own billings.
 
The third year IM residents in the Saint Louis area have been reporting offers around 270 and as much as 330. The 330 I've heard doesn't include a lot of benefits, so it's just bait. One of the hospitals about an hour and fifteen away is offering roughly 260 base with 30 sign on, 15 moving expenses, and 36 in loan repayment per year, so after the first year you'd still be looking at 296. 7 on 7 off, no procedures. Midwest and South will always give you a little more buck for your bang.

I'm now seeing more positions open up with hospitalists salaries bumping over $250k+ in decent sized cities (Top 10-20 metro areas). I don't know if it's due to a shortage of hospitalists or what. I probably wouldn't sign anything less than ~$1500/"shift" (~$105-115 average per encounter) at this point - and that's with no ICU, no codes, no procedures. Round and go is ideal. Would also not prefer to sign with a place that makes you clock in and out like you're still in residency.
 
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I'm now seeing more positions open up with hospitalists salaries bumping over $250k+ in decent sized cities (Top 10-20 metro areas). I don't know if it's due to a shortage of hospitalists or what. I probably wouldn't sign anything less than ~$1500/"shift" (~$105-115 average per encounter) at this point - and that's with no ICU, no codes, no procedures. Round and go is ideal. Would also not prefer to sign with a place that makes you clock in and out like you're still in residency.
This seems too good to be true for areas like Long Island NY haha if only if only
 
Signed my contract recently. Major East Coast city, 14 shifts/month = Base > $250k. An extra ~5 shifts/month would put you right around $350k. PTO pay-out would likely put you close to $400k. If you find a good gig (particularly one with relatively less social issues to deal with which are a time-sink) then burnout hopefully won't be so bad. This will be my first job out of residency.

This is very ideal! I'm happy this is becoming the new standard for fresh IM graduates. A good friend of mine has nearly identical numbers in a major PNW city.
 
Any other input for hospitalists in LI/NYC?


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
Cities are saturated and at doc money in NYC you will be paying 9% more tax due to state and local. No more SALT deductions either.

Why not move to an area where they are in dire need and will be willing to pay more? Cities are saturated.
 
Cities are saturated and at doc money in NYC you will be paying 9% more tax due to state and local. No more SALT deductions either.

Why not move to an area where they are in dire need and will be willing to pay more? Cities are saturated.

It's not so simple when your family is situated in one area, and that area happens to be LI. Dont want to have to take a plane/drive long distances to go see them every 3-4 weeks.
 
Not LI/NYC but in another major east coast city (DC/Baltimore), average starting Salary including average bonus for first year out of residency is 200-240k.

See my post above
"Major East Coast city" is actually DC
I'm over the max of your range with my base starting salary alone
The trend is moving up
 
See my post above
"Major East Coast city" is actually DC
I'm over the max of your range with my base starting salary alone
The trend is moving up
"Major east coast city"... lolz.
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See my post above
"Major East Coast city" is actually DC
I'm over the max of your range with my base starting salary alone
The trend is moving up

Kaiser is only practice I know in area that pays above 240k consistently base - don’t know if that’s the group you’re referring to. Like all jobs, even kaiser has its trade offs - good and bad things about the job. Best of luck in new position.
 
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