Average Step 1 Scores by Specialty?

[UCLAMAN]

I think I may have posted something along these lines before. However, all I got were a bunch of people offering to give me the numbers if I told them which specialty I was interested in.

Does anyone know of a site online that lists the avg step 1 scores for each specialty for residency? I'm hoping for a list of ALL specialties. Is there a book I can buy with this data? Is this data even available?

Thanks in advance.

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[UCLAMAN]

bump

 

[OtoNerd]

You can find this info out on the various match web sites. Trouble is, you need to research each individual program. I can tell you that Otolaryngology is 233.

Good luck.

OtoNerd B)

 

[classic13]

If I remember correctly, Neurology was 218 last year.

 

[promethius]

Does anyone know what the average Step 1 AND 2 scores are for orthopedics? Thanx in advance!

 

[UCLAMAN]

Originally posted by OtoNerd
You can find this info out on the various match web sites. Trouble is, you need to research each individual program. I can tell you that Otolaryngology is 233.

Good luck.

OtoNerd B)

Which match websites? FREIDA? Or do I have to go to each individual residency program's info website and hunt for it. Because I never remember ever seeing board scores at a hospital's residency program website. Maybe I'm not looking hard enough.

Could you post a link?

 

[UCLAMAN]

Originally posted by classic13
If I remember correctly, Neurology was 218 last year.

Where are you getting this info from?

 

[Winged Scapula]

Moving to the USMLE forums...

 

[ecpiii]

UCLA MAN,
From what I can gather, this is a topic no one wants to talk about but everyone does. Hearing people interested in these specialties/the gossip columns, there are a few specialties that REQUIRE great scores, simply as a way to somehow filter out candidates that are all exceptional in their own way:

1. ENT, ORTHO, PLASTICS 5yr, and DERM: Step 1 in the top 15%. This year, that meant above 241. From what classmates of mine are saying, the higher the better (sad, but true)

2. EM, OPTHO, RADS?, NEUROSURG: 230-241, but higher is always better. I have more info about NEUROSURG than other fields. AVG for matchers last year was 235. It is less competitive from scores aspect than those listed in 2. Kind of self-selective based in the training intensity.

I think (correct me if I am wrong) that after those mentioned, the other fields are looking for completeness of your application, and a respectable board score (above the mean 217 never hurts). This is a good thing, as scores on tests are NOT indicative of clinical skills, as I have seen already in watching my fellow classmates perform on the wards. They may predict study habits/willingness to READ READ READ, but that is all. Good luck, but don't live your life for that damn test...

 

[UCLAMAN]

Thanks for the 411 ecpiii...But again...where is everyone getting their data from? Are these numbers based on hearsay or is there some place out there that lists avg scores? Where is the data coming from?

Thanks again though...your info was informative.

Originally posted by ecpiii
UCLA MAN,
From what I can gather, this is a topic no one wants to talk about but everyone does. Hearing people interested in these specialties/the gossip columns, there are a few specialties that REQUIRE great scores, simply as a way to somehow filter out candidates that are all exceptional in their own way:

1. ENT, ORTHO, PLASTICS 5yr, and DERM: Step 1 in the top 15%. This year, that meant above 241. From what classmates of mine are saying, the higher the better (sad, but true)

2. EM, OPTHO, RADS?, NEUROSURG: 230-241, but higher is always better. I have more info about NEUROSURG than other fields. AVG for matchers last year was 235. It is less competitive from scores aspect than those listed in 2. Kind of self-selective based in the training intensity.

I think (correct me if I am wrong) that after those mentioned, the other fields are looking for completeness of your application, and a respectable board score (above the mean 217 never hurts). This is a good thing, as scores on tests are NOT indicative of clinical skills, as I have seen already in watching my fellow classmates perform on the wards. They may predict study habits/willingness to READ READ READ, but that is all. Good luck, but don't live your life for that damn test...

 

[classic13]

For the specialties that participate in the San Francisco match, the SF match publishes the avg. step 1 score of each specialty at the end of the match cycle. On the table SF Match released for Neurology, it listed the avg score of people who matched, did not match, the score of US graduating seniors, and of graduates who participated in the match. It also lists the avg step 1 score of people who matched in the last few years. I assume other SF match specialties compile similar data at the end of the match cycle. The data was only available to those who registered for the match year so you might want to hunt around and ask people who went through the match to get a copy of those numbers.

The specialties that use SF match are neuro, neuro surg, ophto, ent, and pastic surg. Hope this helps.

 

[UCLAMAN]

There we go...Now we are getting somewhere.

In any event, I'm guessing for the other specialties that go through the regular match its the same way? One actually has to be participating in the match that year to get the avg info? No wonder I couldn't find any averages while searching the SF match website myself.

Originally posted by classic13
For the specialties that participate in the San Francisco match, the SF match publishes the avg. step 1 score of each specialty at the end of the match cycle. On the table SF Match released for Neurology, it listed the avg score of people who matched, did not match, the score of US graduating seniors, and of graduates who participated in the match. It also lists the avg step 1 score of people who matched in the last few years. I assume other SF match specialties compile similar data at the end of the match cycle. The data was only available to those who registered for the match year so you might want to hunt around and ask people who went through the match to get a copy of those numbers.

The specialties that use SF match are neuro, neuro surg, ophto, ent, and pastic surg. Hope this helps.

 

[ecpiii]

UCLAMAN,
Forgot to tell you that the info I had was from SF matchers. Try doing a search for average scores for each specialty interest on Google or something, as I don't know if NRMP releases any specialty averages. I think the ranges for top scores are correct, but not from a designated calculation source...

 

[profunda]

dont forget, the sf match shows stats from univ hosp of tough competitiveness: ucsf and stanford. students who matched there probably had higher scores than national average for any particular specialty.

 

[Smurfette]

Originally posted by classic13
For the specialties that participate in the San Francisco match, the SF match publishes the avg. step 1 score of each specialty at the end of the match cycle. On the table SF Match released for Neurology, it listed the avg score of people who matched, did not match, the score of US graduating seniors, and of graduates who participated in the match. It also lists the avg step 1 score of people who matched in the last few years. I assume other SF match specialties compile similar data at the end of the match cycle. The data was only available to those who registered for the match year so you might want to hunt around and ask people who went through the match to get a copy of those numbers.

Since I don't know any recent med school grads who did the SF match, could someone "in the know" post the step I average data?

Profunda, I had never heard that they only took stats from certain programs...I thought it would be national data. Good to know.

 

[Renovar]

what specialty?

 

[daphilster]

Hey guys,

I posted this q in another forum but maybe I should ask you guys here since you guys are talking about residency apps and scores.

How important are extra-currics in residency app. Aside from research in the designated field, are other activities/leadership highly valued for residency?

thanks

 

[Vandomselaar]

Hey!
What makes so imortant step 1 over step 2 applying for match?
Thanks

 

[Teufelhunden]

Originally posted by ecpiii
1. ENT, ORTHO, PLASTICS 5yr, and DERM: Step 1 in the top 15%. This year, that meant above 241. From what classmates of mine are saying, the higher the better (sad, but true)

I thought plastics was a fellowship (?) Please, God, don't tell me they're STILL looking at Step 1 scores when you go to apply for a fellowship!

 

[StinkyTofu]

Originally posted by profunda
dont forget, the sf match shows stats from univ hosp of tough competitiveness: ucsf and stanford. students who matched there probably had higher scores than national average for any particular specialty.

Actually, the SF Match is the primary match for specialties such as Oto, Ophtho, NeuroMed, NeuroSurg, & Plastics. Most of the residency programs in these fields participate in the SF Match. The reason it is called the SF Match is probably because the organization is located in San Francisco.

 

[doc05]

Originally posted by Teufelhunden
I thought plastics was a fellowship (?) Please, God, don't tell me they're STILL looking at Step 1 scores when you go to apply for a fellowship!

this post refers to the 6-year integrated plastics programs (3 gen surg + 3 plastics) to which you apply right out of medical school.

though I suspect your USMLE scores are fair game when you apply to fellowships.

 

[StinkyTofu]

Originally posted by Teufelhunden
I thought plastics was a fellowship (?) Please, God, don't tell me they're STILL looking at Step 1 scores when you go to apply for a fellowship!

Plastic Surgery is a fellowship, but there are also Intergrated Plastics programs that you apply to during med school.

 

[doc05]

Originally posted by Vandomselaar
Hey!
What does make so imortant step 1 over step 2 applying for match?
Thanks

because most US med students have not yet taken step 2 when they apply for residency. many wait until midway or late in the 4th year.

 

[Vandomselaar]

Sorry for my ignorance
they wait until 4th year of residency?

 

[mpp]

I think he means they wait until middle to late 4th year of medical school. By that time all your residency interviews have been completed and therefore your Step 2 scores won't be seen by these programs.

 

[VitaminK]

Does anyone know what a good enough Step One score is to get into neuro? Is 205 ok?

 

[Renovar]

Originally posted by VitaminK
Does anyone know what a good enough Step One score is to get into neuro? Is 205 ok?

Neuro what?

NeuroSURGERY, probably not. I'd say 230 would be competitive for NS interview.

NeuroLOGY, yes. Probably not the very top programs, but it should be fine for solid academic programs.

 

[ent_doc]

Originally posted by Vandomselaar
Hey!
What does make so imortant step 1 over step 2 applying for match?
Thanks

In early match fields, Step 1 is key since you often have not taken Step 2 by the time your application (and possibly even your interviews) are done and in . So, programs only have one board score to look at.

 

[Halaljello]

Originally posted by Renovar
Neuro what?

NeuroSURGERY, probably not. I'd say 230 would be competitive for NS interview.

NeuroLOGY, yes. Probably not the very top programs, but it should be fine for solid academic programs.

anyone have any numbers on EM programs? (especially in chicago) Honestly, im not aiming for extremely competative programs... i'll be willing to go to any program as long as its decent and in a good location.

thanks

 

[Halaljello]

anyone?

 

[theodore]

I didn t know what was the reason for step 1 to be weighed more over step 2 until now. However,does the reasoning you provided have to do only with American students,not IMGs? IMGs have to pass step 2 before they apply, so could a better than average score in step 2 make up for a bad performance in step 1?? And when I say bad, I mean 76-185 bad. Thanks in advance..

 

[Vandomselaar]

Yes Theodore I think High score in step 1 apply only for US students o graduates, as it is the only thing, (most of them) they have to apply for the match.
However, consider that as far as the drectors sometimes receive 700 applications average, they have to set a cut off for calling to an interview and the cut off is over step 1 score. So either you are IMG or not, the key to open the door and start talking about residency is step 1 score, no matter what you did in step 2 or CSA. Of course, once you are in the interview, and mainly if you are an IMG, they must examine you with magnifier and check even your TOEFL score.

 

[theodore]

Ouch Vandom, this really hurt man.. So you re basically saying that no matter what I do in step 2 i will end up in a small community programm in Alaska, at best?? Hmm, i can understand that if you re a secretary looking at applications you have to have a common criterion for rejecting or approving them. What I could never understand is why IMGs are required to get better scores than US students to be chosen among the two.. I mean, US students are much more familiar with the form of the exam, and they have many advantages that IMGs don t, since their education is oriented around passing these exams. Not to mention much more basic things, like having to wait for up to 5 or 6 months to get the books you need, which most of the times you haven t even checked yourself.. I mean, isn t it logical that if a student passes an exam based solely on his own -extra- efforts, he would do much better had he had some extra help?? Ok, I know that it s the US, and no country would like any of its professional fields to be taken over by foreigners, but I think it would be a much more fair game if candidates were divided into US and IMGs, and the two of them were competing for a separate number of residency spots. I mean, it s like taking a European basketball player in the NBA, and expecting him to play immediately at the same level with the rest of the team.You want him because he s above the rest in his country or continent, not because he s better than the players you already have.. You don t expect him to catch up as soon as he sets his feet on the country, but you do expect that with his potential he may reach the rest of the team in the near future.
Ok, don t pay too much attention at what i m saying, it s just hard to take down that you have invested 10 bucks on a goal, to take back one as the reward. And of course this isn t about money, but about time...

 

[theodore]

Oh, I forgot, CSA isn t graded anyway. It s a pass or fail exam.

 

[Vandomselaar]

What you said is right. I am an IMG and I understand your concerns, but let me tell you that the unfairness of this subject depends on from which eyes you are looking through. Remember that what is black may in fact be white from other points of view. I consider that being in the same sac, all of us (IMG and US) it is a great advantage in fact for IMG. It is the principle of no discrimination and that is great. They could say we do not want foreigner doctors, we have enough in our country and in fact is true, but instead of that, they say we want the best doctors for our society no matter where they come from. You have the opportunity. Imagine the situation in which a medical doctor from Tanganuka wins a post in a super competitive field in US. I think that a US student would not see that as a fair situation. Well just to give you a hypothetical example. Nevertheless, unbelievably it could happen and it happens.
I mentioned CSA in case one had failed it.

 

[theodore]

I think we re saying the same thing, more or less. I can t see why why the American student would feel bad, if from the beginning he wasn t put in the same sac with the hypothetical foreigner. I m not saying they should cut down on available spots for US students. I m saying that if for example they are going to give job to 1???? american students in a given year and 2??? in foreigners, the us students should compete among themselves for the 1???? spots, and the IMGs among themselves for the 2???. The top IMGs would be the ones to pass the exam(as i is today), and the top US students would beat the mean(again, the same as it is today). I have said it before here, that with the current system, a brilliant foreign student may get lost if he applies in non img friendly programms. And i m not buying that they could say that they don t need foreign doctors. America s supreme scientific(and not only) community is largely based on its ability to attract and keep good brains from abroad. They re not gonna take me only because i passed the boards, but also because i m gonna be a cheap worker who will do a lot of dirty job(like all residents), and when it will be paying time(the 7 years), i m gonna pack my stuff and go home, having taken in exchange a paper saying ''US trained'', which I will hopefully use back home to save some lives, including my own.
Anyway, i m not expecting anything like this to happen any time soon. This wasn t my inspiration anyway. This is how the system was working in Italy until 97, and I happened to remember it now.
Oh, and maybe some will cll me an ignorant, but i m not buying this no discrimination thing when it comes to giving interviews(or jobs). I don t believe that two students, one American and one IMG, with same scores in the 2 steps and an equivalently good presentation in the interview will have the same odds to take one given spot. And I can accept that, but i can t believe the apposite.

 

[Vandomselaar]

Well may be you didn't understand my idea. I agree in what you said about the fact that US is an expert in attracting brains from all over the world. ECFMG is an excellent example of that. They don't care your nationality even they don't care if you are US or not. I understand the restrictions for other kind of jobs (10 bucks/hour Jobs) of course, they have to protect and reserve those jobs for American citizens because 80% of the population lives from that, but it is not the case of physicians(and other professionals). They want the best no matter what your race, nationality is. You are good you have a chance. You are excellent you have your post for sure and may be permanent work after that. And, with that mentality, they do very well, don't you think? No restrictions, free and fair competitiveness. Think like this. If you had a big company and you needed engineers, what would you prefer, the best of US or the best of the WORLD? Think that the base of your productivity is those people. Different situation would be if you needed cleaner personnel. Well in that case, who cares? You do not need the best. Put the restrictions you want.
By the way, how did you do in your test?

 

[theodore]

Ok Vandom, I think we ve taken this thread out of the topic, so let s stop at this point. I don t think I ll be convinced that with the system I brought up you would NOT have the best in the world, but anyways... I posted my score in this thread, actually just over your first reply to me.76-185 that is, and probably it s one of the reasons i m drooling with bitterness about the current system. Ok, so I m interested in IM, but still I don t think there s nothing but small community programms for me..
Which brings up the question:can someone outline the main differences bw community and university programms? An American friend told me that as long as i m not interested in an academic career(which i m not), a community programm would offer me a lot except for the connections needed for an academic career.
The reason i m asking this, is simply that i chose to take the USMLE path so that I would learn some things better than i would in Greece. But if a community programm is synonymous with
what-is-left-from-university-programms-goes-for-community-programms, maybe I should start considering othwer alternatives.
Ok, thanks in advance.