Awkward Situation…

[bluepeach9]

While volunteering at a clinic, a patient came in to get a pelvic exam done and the doctor was showing me how its done. Unfortunately, the patient seemed to be in some pain and I found myself wincing just watching. After the exam, as the doctor was talking to the patient, I found myself getting really dizzy. The nurses saw me just in time and made me sit down, and I immediately felt better. The doctor was surprised that I was about to faint, and said she didn't expect it. I also felt guilty and embarrassed. I've seen a pelvic exam and Pap smear before, so I'm not sure why I felt dizzy. It could have been due to the lack of a morning meal, but still :/

I want to get an LOR from this physician, but now I'm a bit worried that I gave off the impression that I can't handle sensitive, invasive medical procedures. What do I do? Is this common and are docs used to this kind of thing? Can I still get the LOR?

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[JustAPhD]

There's this crazy theory that our bodies needs food to function. Eat breakfast next time. Yes.

 

[Cookie04]

While volunteering at a clinic, a patient came in to get a pelvic exam done and the doctor was showing me how its done. Unfortunately, the patient seemed to be in some pain and I found myself wincing just watching. After the exam, as the doctor was talking to the patient, I found myself getting really dizzy. The nurses saw me just in time and made me sit down, and I immediately felt better. The doctor was surprised that I was about to faint, and said she didn't expect it. I also felt guilty and embarrassed. I've seen a pelvic exam and Pap smear before, so I'm not sure why I felt dizzy. It could have been due to the lack of a morning meal, but still :/

I want to get an LOR from this physician, but now I'm a bit worried that I gave off the impression that I can't handle sensitive, invasive medical procedures. What do I do? Is this common and are docs used to this kind of thing? Can I still get the LOR?

I wouldn't worry about it too much and of course you can still get an LOR. I almost fainted while observing a circumcision and the attending told me that it was pretty common, even among the male med students and residents lol.

 

[ChrisMack390]

Are you shadowing them again, or was this a one-off?

If the former, just stick around til you see a few more of these (and don't pass out).

If the latter, this is an ill-advised LOR anyway.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I wouldn't worry about it too much. I almost fainted while observing a circumcision and the attending told me that it was pretty common, even among the male med students and residents lol

"Even" among males? They are the one's with the particular organ that is being chopped!

 

[Cookie04]

"Even" among males? They are the one's with the particular organ that is being chopped!

I know I was suprised too! The attending, resident, and med student that were also there at the time were all female so of course they had a good laugh making fun of their male counterparts

 

[takeurmeds02]

I wouldn't worry about it too much and of course you can still get an LOR. I almost fainted while observing a circumcision and the attending told me that it was pretty common, even among the male med students and residents lol.

*shudders*

 

[bananafish94]

"Even" among males? They are the one's with the particular organ that is being chopped!

I took a course where you observe slaughter of animals a few times and the professor said that it's the biggest guys who pass out the most.

 

[ChrisMack390]

I know I was suprised too! The attending, resident, and med student that were also there at the time were all female so of course they had a good laugh making fun of their male counterparts

I'm saying that I am NOT surprised. Even reading about that makes me wince a bit haha.

If you waited until males were old enough to ask them if that want to be circumcised, the rate would be 0%.

 

[Cookie04]

I'm saying that I am NOT surprised. Even reading about that makes me wince a bit haha.

If you waited until males were old enough to ask them if that want to be circumcised, the rate would be 0%.

Oops sorry read that wrong. It was so awful though because the baby wouldn't stop crying!

 

[Glandzburg]

No, you should not be asking for a LOR, because a physician you have only shadowed does not know you well enough to write you a strong LOR (even if you have shadowed him/her multiple times). This has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum.

 

[clippers50fan]

While volunteering at a clinic, a patient came in to get a pelvic exam done and the doctor was showing me how its done. Unfortunately, the patient seemed to be in some pain and I found myself wincing just watching. After the exam, as the doctor was talking to the patient, I found myself getting really dizzy. The nurses saw me just in time and made me sit down, and I immediately felt better. The doctor was surprised that I was about to faint, and said she didn't expect it. I also felt guilty and embarrassed. I've seen a pelvic exam and Pap smear before, so I'm not sure why I felt dizzy. It could have been due to the lack of a morning meal, but still :/

I want to get an LOR from this physician, but now I'm a bit worried that I gave off the impression that I can't handle sensitive, invasive medical procedures. What do I do? Is this common and are docs used to this kind of thing? Can I still get the LOR?

Just look at vagina after vagina until you stop fainting. Tell everyone it's doctor's orders.

 

[gyngyn]

A shadowing letter isn't worth worrying about.

 

[clippers50fan]

A shadowing letter isn't worth worrying about.

I have a question for you. Say I spent a week with a physician for shadowing, but he knows me more personally than just that one week on my application and it would be a very strong letter, is it worth it to garner that letter?

 

[gyngyn]

I have a question for you. Say I spent a week with a physician for shadowing, but he knows me more personally than just that one week on my application and it would be a very strong letter, is it worth it to garner that letter?

Is he a family friend?

 

[ChrisMack390]

I have a question for you. Say I spent a week with a physician for shadowing, but he knows me more personally than just that one week on my application and it would be a very strong letter, is it worth it to garner that letter?

How does he know you? If he is a family friend or something casual, absolutely not. If you worked on a research project or something like that with him, absolutely yes.

 

[9909]

Well on a positive note, it is good you got the fainting out of the way before you lose your virginity.

 

[clippers50fan]

Is he a family friend?

Family friend is a stretch, but yes he does know me personally from that. There's a reason why I'm asking because I've thought about it myself and it doesn't really make much sense in asking for one, but I thought it was worth it to ask you.

However, the reason why I ask in this specific case (I have other family friend MDs that I shadowed that I would never ask a letter from) is that the physician is very involved and a big name in one of my top choice medical schools. Even then, is the letter useless or would that hold more weight if it's a very positive letter?

 

[gyngyn]

Family friend is a stretch, but yes he does know me personally from that. There's a reason why I'm asking because I've thought about it myself and it doesn't really make much sense in asking for one, but I thought it was worth it to ask you.

However, the reason why I ask in this specific case (I have other family friend MDs that I shadowed that I would never ask a letter from) is that the physician is very involved and a big name in one of my top choice medical schools. Even then, is the letter useless or would that hold more weight if it's a very positive letter?

Many of these letters are thinly veiled endorsements for the children of colleagues or relatives. This is one of the many reasons they hold so little value.

In the second instance, it would be more effective to have him call the Dean of Admissions to indicate his support. This is best if he actually knows him. What happens from there will vary. We call this "affirmative action of the usual kind."

 

[LizzyM]

The opening lines of these letters always state how long one has known the applicant and in what capacity. I have seen letters that say, "I have known Susan since she was a nine-year old in pigtails riding her bicycle with my daughter in our neighborhood." That is not how you want a letter to open. All expectations of objectivity just went right out the window.

 

[prehealthadvisor55]

A shadowing letter isn't worth worrying about.

Do these not hold much weight? What's more important...the faculty LORs?

 

[futuredoc71]

Haha my first day as a scribe I saw a circumcision and fell on the floor passed out. 2 years later it doesnt even phase me. pretty normal OP, you need to eat though

I wouldn't worry about it too much and of course you can still get an LOR. I almost fainted while observing a circumcision and the attending told me that it was pretty common, even among the male med students and residents lol.

 

[gyngyn]

Do these not hold much weight? What's more important...the faculty LORs?

Very few MD schools want a "clinical" letter (Chicago Med, AZ, Utah?). Some undergrad committees use this requirement to ensure some clinical experience. For the rest of us, they are just fluff.

The exception is that DO schools love a DO letter.

 

[starspells]

The opening lines of these letters always state how long one has known the applicant and in what capacity. I have seen letters that say, "I have known Susan since she was a nine-year old in pigtails riding her bicycle with my daughter in our neighborhood." That is not how you want a letter to open. All expectations of objectivity just went right out the window.

I've heard of students getting letters from doctors they've received medical treatment from. That must be even weirder!

 

[gyngyn]

I've heard of students getting letters from doctors they've received medical treatment from. That must be even weirder!

Double reverse coercion!

 

[Moko]

Do these not hold much weight? What's more important...the faculty LORs?

LORs from professors and bosses hold much more weight. No point sweating about shadowing letters.

 

[sat0ri]

While volunteering at a clinic, a patient came in to get a pelvic exam done and the doctor was showing me how its done. Unfortunately, the patient seemed to be in some pain and I found myself wincing just watching. After the exam, as the doctor was talking to the patient, I found myself getting really dizzy. The nurses saw me just in time and made me sit down, and I immediately felt better. The doctor was surprised that I was about to faint, and said she didn't expect it. I also felt guilty and embarrassed. I've seen a pelvic exam and Pap smear before, so I'm not sure why I felt dizzy. It could have been due to the lack of a morning meal, but still :/

I want to get an LOR from this physician, but now I'm a bit worried that I gave off the impression that I can't handle sensitive, invasive medical procedures. What do I do? Is this common and are docs used to this kind of thing? Can I still get the LOR?

This goes away after repeated exposure, and pretty quickly too. I almost fainted during animal sacrifices, autopsies, during trauma in the ER. For eample, during the autopsy, I nearly syncopized and had to sit down as my vision went black; 5 minutes later I was holding the dead guy's heart as a doctor was telling me about the like cardiac etiology of death. All the other pathologists came later and told me their "nearly fainted story" too. (I guess child birth and C-sections are, surprisingly, pretty common for vasovagal among med students).

 

[TallPreMed]

I took a course where you observe slaughter of animals a few times and the professor said that it's the biggest guys who pass out the most.

A class? Where I come from that's called growing up country

 

[Cinclus]

This goes away after repeated exposure, and pretty quickly too. I almost fainted during animal sacrifices, autopsies, during trauma in the ER. For eample, during the autopsy, I nearly syncopized and had to sit down as my vision went black; 5 minutes later I was holding the dead guy's heart as a doctor was telling me about the like cardiac etiology of death. All the other pathologists came later and told me their "nearly fainted story" too. (I guess child birth and C-sections are, surprisingly, pretty common for vasovagal among med students).

Wut?

 

[sat0ri]

Wut?

To worship our dark lord and savior, Satan

EDIT - no just kidding, I guess that's what they call it when you a kill an animal in research

 

[JustAPhD]

To worship our dark lord and savior, Satan

EDIT - no just kidding, I guess that's what they call it when you a kill an animal in research

It is. It's just the way you causally slide "animal sacrifices" into a list of non-research activities.

 

[Ismet]

I took a course where you observe slaughter of animals a few times and the professor said that it's the biggest guys who pass out the most.

It's the big tough guys who pass out while their wives are giving birth, too.

 

[Quizlet04]

M2 here. The first day of my preceptorship, we are standing in a small hospital room talking to a patient who was in pretty good shape except for that whole chest tube thing. 10 minutes in, I begin to get woozy, excuse myself, get some water, come back...repeat about four times. I ended up needing to skip the rest of the day, though I did go to the school clinic where we discovered my blood sugar was weirdly low. So yeah, in spite of my seeing dead bodies and blood and surgery and whatever, I still nearly passed out when chatting with a 40 year old who had pneumonia. Even the patient felt bad for me and hoped I felt better.

It happens. Make sure you eat more.

 

[Syns]

I know I was suprised too! The attending, resident, and med student that were also there at the time were all female so of course they had a good laugh making fun of their male counterparts

Makes me far more uncomfortable that child mutilation in the states has become so common place as to be confused for a laughing matter. There is a good reason why someone should become ill watching one human cut a small child's penis into an unnatural form. I would hope those same males would become unsettled watching the removal of a child's clitoris and I only hope that one day we realize how truly disgusting this practice is. Sex organ mutilation is wrong, regardless of the sex of the victim.

 

[Psai]

Makes me far more uncomfortable that child mutilation in the states has become so common place as to be confused for a laughing matter. There is a good reason why someone should become ill watching one human cut a small child's penis into an unnatural form. I would hope those same males would become unsettled watching the removal of a child's clitoris and I only hope that one day we realize how truly disgusting this practice is. Sex organ mutilation is wrong, regardless of the sex of the victim.

Less infection, phimosis and cancer though

 

[tantacles]

Makes me far more uncomfortable that child mutilation in the states has become so common place as to be confused for a laughing matter. There is a good reason why someone should become ill watching one human cut a small child's penis into an unnatural form. I would hope those same males would become unsettled watching the removal of a child's clitoris and I only hope that one day we realize how truly disgusting this practice is. Sex organ mutilation is wrong, regardless of the sex of the victim.

It's an interesting post, but I doubt you're likely to get much traction calling circumcision genital mutilation here. Circumcision confers health benefits, and it does not cause the penis to be nonfunctional as female genital mutilation does.

That being said, if you want to discuss this topic more, please feel free to pm. I'd rather not hijack this thread for a political debate.

 

[Syns]

Less infection, phimosis and cancer though

It's an interesting post, but I doubt you're likely to get much traction calling circumcision genital mutilation here. Circumcision confers health benefits, and it does not cause the penis to be nonfunctional as female genital mutilation does.

That being said, if you want to discuss this topic more, please feel free to pm. I'd rather not hijack this thread for a political debate.

If the benefits were so obvious, I think at least one medical association would recommend the procedure. None do.

There is no causation study showing male mutilation promotes better health outcomes later in life and there is no argument that the procedure puts the baby in immediate danger -- even leading to death in some cases (100+ annually).

When evidence does not support a medical treatment, echo chambering these out-dated ideas is dangerous.

EDIT:

Happy to continue this conversation in private. My only point is that without social judgement, it is obvious why someone would be unsettled by healthy tissue removal until accumulated to those actions through repeated exposure.

So... don't feel bad! Sometimes even merited medical treatment can cause uncomfortable feelings. It's normal.

 

[Psai]

There are plenty of procedures with dubious benefits that are recommended by medical associations and the converse is true.

 

[Syns]

The efficacy of this procedure has no evidence to support your claims. Let us continue this conversation in private if you wish but your contention is a pseudo-straw man argument. Regardless of medical association support, there are zero causation studies that stand the test of time and scrutiny that successfully match mutilated males with positive health outcomes later in life.

However, the risks to the child at the moment of surgery are without question.

 

[Cookie04]

Makes me far more uncomfortable that child mutilation in the states has become so common place as to be confused for a laughing matter. There is a good reason why someone should become ill watching one human cut a small child's penis into an unnatural form. I would hope those same males would become unsettled watching the removal of a child's clitoris and I only hope that one day we realize how truly disgusting this practice is. Sex organ mutilation is wrong, regardless of the sex of the victim.

I was merely sharing my own experience concerning uneasiness during a specific medical procedure, I have no interest in getting involved in all of the politics behind such procedures especially not on SDN.

 

[spiffysteve]

Hello! For those of you who wish to discuss male circumcision, this exact conversation was had and all of the same points were made about three weeks ago on this thread:

http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/male-circumcision.1178055/

Feel free to take a look.

 

[bluepeach9]

Are you shadowing them again, or was this a one-off?

If the former, just stick around til you see a few more of these (and don't pass out).

If the latter, this is an ill-advised LOR anyway.

No, you should not be asking for a LOR, because a physician you have only shadowed does not know you well enough to write you a strong LOR (even if you have shadowed him/her multiple times). This has been discussed ad nauseam on this forum.

A shadowing letter isn't worth worrying about.

LORs from professors and bosses hold much more weight. No point sweating about shadowing letters.

I should have made myself more clear. I'm not shadowing the physician, I'm actually volunteering as a scribe at the clinic. Hence, I wanted to get an LOR from her since I've been associated with her for quite some time. Would this LOR still be okay to get despite my embarrassing situation at the clinic? Even the patient was like, "Oh, I'm so sorry, my insides must be that repulsive."

 

[Psai]

I should have made myself more clear. I'm not shadowing the physician, I'm actually volunteering as a scribe at the clinic. Hence, I wanted to get an LOR from her since I've been associated with her for quite some time. Would this LOR still be okay to get despite my embarrassing situation at the clinic? Even the patient was like, "Oh, I'm so sorry, my insides must be that repulsive."

Volunteering as a scribe? That's a job that should be paid my friend

 

[bluepeach9]

Volunteering as a scribe? That's a job that should be paid my friend

I only go once or twice a week for like 8-12 hours total. The flexibility overcame the compensation lol

 

[gyngyn]

Physician letters are the lowest form of medical school LOE.
We are congenitally incapable of anything but a warm but useless endorsement. This has served to cause a downgrade in the perception of our objectivity in this regard.
Can say something more substantive than, "she really types fast," or "she's so unobtrusive?"

 

[Goro]

To follow up on my learned colleague, in > 10 years of being on our Adcom, I have seen exactly ONE poor LOR from a clinician, out of some 700+ interviewees.

Physician letters are the lowest form of medical school LOE.
We are congenitally incapable of anything but a warm but useless endorsement. This has served to cause a downgrade in the perception of our objectivity in this regard.
Can say something more substantive than, "she really types fast," or "she's so unobtrusive?"