AZCOM vs Touro-NY (DO)

[idkwhatimdoing]

Hi guys!!

Ok I know there are mainly MD threads here, but I'm pressed for time in making my decision and thought I may as well post this here in addition to the DO X v Y forum!

These are my current pros and cons list:

AZCOM
Pros:

• More established
• Higher avg COMLEX 1 (by 10pts)
• Consistently high COMLEX pass rates
• Research seems available to anyone who wants it
• Rotations seem good. I like you have an option for Chicago, even if it's not a certainty.

Cons:

• For the school's reputation, historically there doesn't seem to be as many "competitive" residency matches as other schools (derm, ortho, radiology, etc.)
• If I get my choice of Chicago rotations, I'd have to move in 2 years
• According to staff I spoke at interviews, no AZCOM student does away rotations
• No clinical exposure in first two years - there are no opportunities and it's advised against
• Minimum 1 exam per week, though students say it's common to have multiple tests a week
• Only 16 weeks of elective rotations

TOURO-Harlem
Pros

• I'm a city person.
• Apparently avg level 1 score is 3rd highest in the nation? Though I know they prevent some people from taking the exam each year.
• Every year there are students who match into highly competitive specialties.
• NYC has so many institutions / opportunities for research, volunteering, mentoring / shadowing, etc. Even if Touro doesn't offer something, there may be an institution / clinic in Manhattan that does.
• NYC area must have more residencies than Phoenix. I could make more valuable connections here.
• Jewish holidays allow for catch up time
• 1 month for an elective 3rd year, 6 months for electives 4th year

Cons

• Flipped classroom - doesn't this mean you get fewer hours to study per week?
• Little prep for clinical rotations
• 2 hrs of OMM per week (which is a pro, bc other schools have more), but students said there is a huge OMM focus at the school. As in they learn wayyy more than necessary for Comlex.
  
• SHADINESS?? Like the low COMLEX 2 pass rate, the administration's apparent disorganization, quality of rotations, SDN's dislike for the school, etc., is putting me off. Why isn't there anything bad said about AZCOM, and few positive things said about Touro?

tl;dr I'm confused because Touro seems like the obvious bad choice based on what SND says. However, people still manage to match into competitive residencies each year. So it's odd that such a bad, shady school with horrible pass stats still is fairly successful in matching their students. Does that mean Touro isn't great at providing support to those who need structure, but individual students who are good with self-study, finding opportunities, etc. can still succeed?

Any input would be appreciated, thanks!

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[nycdreamer]

I would stick to AZCOM. I interviewed at both places, and Touro-NY was actually quite shady. The COMPLEX-2 rates are low and I remember in the powerpoint presentation they only showed COMPLEX-1 rates. In addition, the campus is beautiful at AZCOM but Touro-NY is just one building. Phoenix is a pretty large city as well and you can definitely make connections there too. Think about where you want to end up for your residency, while someone who goes to AZCOM might be from AZ and want to stay there for residency, perhaps you have a greater chance of ending up somewhere close to where the med school is because you'll have a chance to network with others during rotations. I had a horrible interview experience at Touro-NY and the administration is awful--I heard this from current students and experienced it myself as well. AZCOM would be a great choice

 

[idkwhatimdoing]

I would stick to AZCOM. I interviewed at both places, and Touro-NY was actually quite shady. The COMPLEX-2 rates are low and I remember in the powerpoint presentation they only showed COMPLEX-1 rates. In addition, the campus is beautiful at AZCOM but Touro-NY is just one building. Phoenix is a pretty large city as well and you can definitely make connections there too. Think about where you want to end up for your residency, while someone who goes to AZCOM might be from AZ and want to stay there for residency, perhaps you have a greater chance of ending up somewhere close to where the med school is because you'll have a chance to network with others during rotations. I had a horrible interview experience at Touro-NY and the administration is awful--I heard this from current students and experienced it myself as well. AZCOM would be a great choice

Yeah! The Comlex II pass rates are freakishly low - I talked to a current student who said it's because a lot of people stop studying after OMS II because no one is telling them to anymore. So despite having solid Comlex I scores (the third highest in the country?), the Comlex II rate is very low. So I'm ok with low Comlex II pass rates as long as it's not because unlike AZCOM, Touro is lacking in curriculum that would have prepared students better. Unfortunately I can't find anyone who can comment on the differences between Comlex II prep between both schools...

I thought about where I'd want to end up! AZCOM has a possibility of rotating in Chicago, a city where I could see myself ending up. Touro is 100% in the NYC area, a place I could also see myself ending up. So by that logic, I have a higher chance of being happy with Touro. But it seems weird to pick a school for location over quality of education.

 

[Ioannes Paulus]

Avoid TouroNY like the plague. I have friends there who absolutely hate the school. The quality of the education is lacking and they were on probation last year for various reasons. Also, you will not be rotating in NYC if you go to Touro. Most students rotate in New Jersey at Trinitas. I believe the only NY hospital they currently have a solid relationship with is Staten Island Hospital which isn't even in NYC proper. COMLEX-II pass rate is low because the clinical education is mostly through preceptorships at tiny hospitals in New Jersey. Keep in mind that Dr. Conrad Fisher who is the author of the country's top selling Step II review book is faculty there and they still don't have a high pass rate. The school is a mess.
Also, I don't think they have the 3rd highest COMLEX average in the country. I'm pretty sure that spot is taken by either TCOM or RVU.

 

[nycdreamer]

I definitely agree with @Ioannes Paulus in terms of not being able to rotate in NYC. I don't know if you've paid your deposit yet, but I know that you have to pick your preference for where to rotate before matriculating to AZCOM. When I interviewed there (pretty late in the season) they told us that if we decide to matriculate, we would end up in Tucson or Phoenix, so I think it depends on when you accept your offer

 

[idkwhatimdoing]

Avoid TouroNY like the plague. I have friends there who absolutely hate the school. The quality of the education is lacking and they were on probation last year for various reasons. Also, you will not be rotating in NYC if you go to Touro. Most students rotate in New Jersey at Trinitas. I believe the only NY hospital they currently have a solid relationship with is Staten Island Hospital which isn't even in NYC proper. COMLEX-II pass rate is low because the clinical education is mostly through preceptorships at tiny hospitals in New Jersey. Keep in mind that Dr. Conrad Fisher who is the author of the country's top selling Step II review book is faculty there and they still don't have a high pass rate. The school is a mess.
Also, I don't think they have the 3rd highest COMLEX average in the country. I'm pretty sure that spot is taken by either TCOM or RVU.

I knew that most rotations are in NJ instead of NYC!
Interesting that there's inconsistency in Touro's ranking for Comlex I scores... this is an example of "shadiness" that I'm seeing!
I've heard there is little to no clinical education in Touro, and that most of your clinical education has to be learned yourself. This I find REALLY weird, because Touro isn't new enough to be able to say "We're still working on it!" Clinical education should be a given in a medical school?

Does anyone know how easy it is to study for Step/Level II by yourself? Someone told me a lot of Step II is self-study, and a lot of students at Touro don't study for it because there isn't anyone telling them to anymore, unlike at AZCOM where there's more standardization for clinical material. Idk how much to trust a student who says "at the end of the day, how much you study for boards matters, not the school."

 

[idkwhatimdoing]

I definitely agree with @Ioannes Paulus in terms of not being able to rotate in NYC. I don't know if you've paid your deposit yet, but I know that you have to pick your preference for where to rotate before matriculating to AZCOM. When I interviewed there (pretty late in the season) they told us that if we decide to matriculate, we would end up in Tucson or Phoenix, so I think it depends on when you accept your offer

Yeah I submitted my preferences and Chicago was still on the list when I sent it out!! I really like Chicago so I have my fingers crossed for that!

 

[AnatomyGrey12]

I don't know what you are looking at that makes you say that AZCOM doesn't match people into competitive residencies, they match competitively every year. On top of that they have a ton of matches into EM, which is decently competitive (although obviously not the tip top). As an anecdote the hospital I work at has a DO urologist, and an ACGME trained DO ophthalmologist and both of them went to AZCOM.

I personally would choose AZCOM 10/10 because you couldn't pay me to go to Touro NY.

 

[InternistDO]

The clinical ed isn't universally bad at Touro, it's just wildly inconsistent. Administration, on the other hand, is quite bad, as is semi mandatory attendance for preclinicals. The above posters are correct about clinical sites in Manhattan, there are some in BK and Staten Island, the rest in Long Island and North Jersey.

For the past few years the shelf exams barely affected your clinical grades (you needed to be like 2 SDs below the average for it to hurt your grade). Therefore, people stopped studying for them, and therefore, COMLEX 2 pass rates were some unfortunate number. They just changed it to a new grading system this year.

The COMLEX 1 scores used to be ****ty and have improved to good over the past few years, that may be the disparity you're seeing.

I don't know much about AZCOM but I heard they had a pretty decent match this year.