Background Checks

[ocdp09]

I just received my 3rd ordinance violation for unlawful consumption of alcohol, which requires me to go to court and have the judge decide how large of a fine I have to pay (can be up to $500), and since its the 3rd, it will be put on a court record in my town. My question is this, Ive already spoken with an attorney who told me that becuase its not a crimanal matter, I dont have to report any felonies or misdemeanors on any applications asking if I have ever been convicted of a crime. I also spoke with my pre professional advisor who said that I have nothing to worry about becuase its only an ordinance violation and not a criminal matter, meaning no criminal record is ever produced. My question is, should I report this to the medical schools I apply too, and will it affect their desicion of accepting me into their programs? Im really nervous and worried about this, please help, thank you.

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[SupergreenMnM]

Hmmm...if it involved cops, a judge, and a court ordering you to pay a fine or maybe even do service...it sounds like a criminal matter to me. Even though it might not be technically if there is any chance they could find out later tell them now. My lawyer told me not to will not be a good excuse! That said, if you are 100% sure they can't find out...you can hope that they don't have their background checks go through a competent agency.

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

I think that schools tell you what they want to know through the questions they ask. AMCAS wants to know about institutional action (which this is not). Some schools ask about criminal convictions, felonies or misdemeanors (which this is not). If the school asks about civil infractions or ordinance violations, then you should report it. Whereever you live, the law considers this an ordinance violation, so legally it is on the same level as a noise ordinance violation or parking ticket. Schools generally don't ask about this, though some might.

I would ask LizzyM in the semi-solicited advice thread because she can speak from an adcomm perspective.


Here's a quote from UNC's secondary. It's actually a little confusing to me, because it seems like they want to know about all alcohol and drug offenses, but that "whether or not they are traffic-related" threw me off. I can't tell if this statement asks for alcohol/drug related infractions or whether all infractions are excluded. I think that when in doubt, you should disclose.

"For the purpose of the following six questions, “crime” or “criminal charge” refers to any crime other than a traffic-related misdemeanor or an infraction. You must, however, include alcohol or drug offenses whether or not they are traffic related."

 

[scgroat]

Absolutely! This is not a subjective matter. Schools will ask you if you have been convicted of any felonies or misdemeanors. They are very explicit and explain that minor traffic violations can be omitted. In addition, they WILL likely show up on your record. There are many sources that perform background checks. The information reported might be slightly different from service to service, but most things do show up (sometimes even dismissals and expunctions). There is no gray area in this matter. Please do not wait around for the answer you want to hear. Good luck.

 

[SupergreenMnM]

Here's a quote from UNC's secondary. It's actually a little confusing to me, because it seems like they want to know about all alcohol and drug offenses, but that "whether or not they are traffic-related" threw me off. I can't tell if this statement asks for alcohol/drug related infractions or whether all infractions are excluded. I think that when in doubt, you should disclose.

"For the purpose of the following six questions, “crime” or “criminal charge” refers to any crime other than a traffic-related misdemeanor or an infraction. You must, however, include alcohol or drug offenses whether or not they are traffic related."

This is telling you that UNC will define the word 'offense' and 'crime' for you. Basically they consider anything other than non drug and alc related traffic offenses a 'crime' that you are required to report. In the example of the OP, he would report his alcohol offense to UNC if that were a school he was applying to.

Note: all of the applications I saw require you to report any offense other than traffic, so regardless of what your lawyer tells you the school may specifically ask you to report it.

 

[NN11]

Seeing that this is your 3RD offense, you might be a perfect candidate for court supervised probation.

A few schools ask if you've ever been on court supervised probation, so if the court gives you probation then you will not be able claim that "nothing happened."

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

This is telling you that UNC will define the word 'offense' and 'crime' for you. Basically they consider anything other than non drug and alc related traffic offenses a 'crime' that you are required to report. In the example of the OP, he would report his alcohol offense to UNC if that were a school he was applying to.

Note: all of the applications I saw require you to report any offense other than traffic, so regardless of what your lawyer tells you the school may specifically ask you to report it.

I agree with your reading of it. They could have just said "You must, however, include allalcohol or drug offenses." That traffic-related part seems unnecessary, and a little confusing because they used traffic-related specifically in the context of misdemeanors, not infractions. Maybe I shouldn't be dissecting it this much.

OP, if school's ask for this info, you need to report it. It seems like schools would want to know about alcohol and drug offenses. I think it'll be detrimental to your app, but I don't know how much so.

 

[SupergreenMnM]

Yeah, I agree they could ask it a different way; I think the origonal way they used to ask was 'all offenses other than traffic' then they figured out they should ask about DUIs too and made the easiest change to the existing verbage.

 

[somemaybedoc]

Where do you live?

If it is not a misdemeanor or felony it is generally not asked about on your app, but I'd bet that it will show up on the background check since there is a court record. Whether they'll care or not if you don't tell them, I don't know, I do know that if you tell them and they accept you, they won't care because they will be expecting it.

 

[ocdp09]

I live in illinois. So are you all telling me that one mistake like an unlawful consumption of alcohol is going to prevent me from getting into medical school? If im honest with them and tell medical schools about this, will they punish me that hard?

 

[Law2Doc]

I agree with your reading of it.

That would be my read as well. If the school app asks, then answer honestly. If they specifically only want felonies and misdemeanors, you can decide this isn't one. FWIW I seem to recall seeing the report everything "other than minor traffic violations" on a lot of applications back when I applied, so OP, you may have to report this more than you think. And yes, a decent background check would likely find something put in the court record.

 

[Law2Doc]

I live in illinois. So are you all telling me that one mistake like an unlawful consumption of alcohol is going to prevent me from getting into medical school? If im honest with them and tell medical schools about this, will they punish me that hard?

What one mistake -- didn't you say it was your third violation?
I don't think anyone said it would necessarilly keep you out of med school, but it certainly won't help when they are weighing you against applicants without legal blemishes.

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

What one mistake -- didn't you say it was your third violation?
I don't think anyone said it would necessarilly keep you out of med school, but it certainly won't help when they are weighing you against applicants without legal blemishes.

Good call...I was just about to jump on that.

Everyone makes mistakes, but three mistakes is going to look like a pattern of bad behavior. The thing you have going for you is that your behavior is not uncommon, so it may be forgivable. Med schools are going to want to know that this is not going to be a problem for you in medical school....you'll need to convince them that it won't be.

 

[AnEyeLikeMars]

That would be my read as well. If the school app asks, then answer honestly. If they specifically only want felonies and misdemeanors, you can decide this isn't one. FWIW I seem to recall seeing the report everything "other than minor traffic violations" on a lot of applications back when I applied, so OP, you may have to report this more than you think. And yes, a decent background check would likely find something put in the court record.

Now that I think about it, I think my apps asked for everything but minor traffic violations as well (not just felonies and misdemeanors). I'm not 100% sure though because I breezed through these questions since I had no violations or anything.

 

[notdeadyet]

Now that I think about it, I think my apps asked for everything but minor traffic violations as well (not just felonies and misdemeanors). I'm not 100% sure though because I breezed through these questions since I had no violations or anything.

I applied to 37 schools and I'd say that maybe 2/3rds used the "any offenses other than driving-related". I think med schools consciously use language like "offenses" rather than misdemeanor/felony for reasons exactly like the OP's situation.

ocdp09- Alcohol offenses may or may not kill your application, but if the med school perceives that you're lying on an application, you're definitely dead in the water. Tread very carefully.

Also, most employers and med schools consider two things when looking at an applicants legal background: Did the applicant learn from his/her mistakes (ie: was the behavior repeated)? and How long has it been since the behavior? Given that you're getting written up for the same offense for a third time and it's happened recently, you'd better have a very compelling story prepared.

 

[ShyRem]

My applications asked specifically for everything "other than minor traffic violations" to be disclosed. Now if they specifically ask for "criminal or misdemeanors" then you need to check with your local law enforcement representative to ask if these three infractions fall under those categories.

I also agree with the other posters, however, that if this is the THIRD infraction you have a problem on your hands. The majority of the population drinks at least 6 times in some type of illegal capacity (DUI, underage, whatever) before getting caught (yes, some get caught the first time, some never get caught). This puts you in a very bad light, my friend. Get some professional help to show the adcoms you are mature enough to recognize a potential problem and are being proactive about it.

 

[notdeadyet]

The majority of the population drinks at least 6 times in some type of illegal capacity (DUI, underage, whatever) before getting caught (yes, some get caught the first time, some never get caught).

Where does that stat come from? If that was true, 3/4 of San Diego State (just to pick one) would have some sort of write up. Most folks I knew in college drank underage and I know of only one person who ever got caught or punished.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

You guys realize that for this next cycle AAMC is performing credit and background checks on all applicants. The background checks will include searches of both publicly and privately maintained criminal databases. See page 75 of the AMCAS 2008 Instruction Manual for details. Just FYI.

 

[aliziry]

You guys realize that for this next cycle AAMC is performing credit and background checks on all applicants. The background checks will include searches of both publicly and privately maintained criminal databases. See page 75 of the AMCAS 2008 Instruction Manual for details. Just FYI.

No they are not. Only the schools that want to be in their pilot program will background check their students. Believe it or not people there are alot of schools that dont and dont want to check. Right now only about 20% of schools actually do background checks.

 

[gotmeds?]

I live in illinois. So are you all telling me that one mistake like an unlawful consumption of alcohol is going to prevent me from getting into medical school? If im honest with them and tell medical schools about this, will they punish me that hard?

Wasn't it three mistakes?

 

[SupergreenMnM]

No they are not. Only the schools that want to be in their pilot program will background check their students. Believe it or not people there are alot of schools that dont and dont want to check. Right now only about 20% of schools actually do background checks.

I actually think the background check is done by much more than 20%, but I have no numbers. Do you have anything showing this? Also, a lot of states (all?) require it for licensure. I pretty certain there is a very small (read: none) chance you'll go all the way w/o having a check done on you at some point. If you lie about things now you will defenately be screwed later if its found out. Also...fyi, background check agencies can often find things that you 'think' there isn't any record of.

 

[ocdp09]

in my campus town, three strikes equals one unlawful consumption of alcohol. so its my third time violating the ordinance technically, but legally and record wise it is only my first time violating it. the previous 2 were settled at city hall with a fine and no record was created of them. sorry for the confusion. so my situation is that i have one record of unlawful consumption of alcohol. how will this affect my admissions?

 

[SupergreenMnM]

I will repost:

Also...fyi, background check agencies can often find things that you 'think' there isn't any record of.

A competent agency will have records if its at 'city hall' even if there is no 'official' record.

 

[Law2Doc]

in my campus town, three strikes equals one unlawful consumption of alcohol. so its my third time violating the ordinance technically, but legally and record wise it is only my first time violating it. the previous 2 were settled at city hall with a fine and no record was created of them. sorry for the confusion. so my situation is that i have one record of unlawful consumption of alcohol. how will this affect my admissions?

Well, not to be a stickler, but in your last post you talked about it as if it was "one mistake". It is three mistakes, but just one written up violation. No one will be able to tell you how it will affect admissions, but you have to honestly answer any questions on it in your apps. If decisions for a spot come down between you and others with similar stats and no violation, I think you know who gets the nod.

 

[aliziry]

The numbers I was relying on are found in the AAMC statement on their new background check programme.

 

[SupergreenMnM]

The numbers I was relying on are found in the AAMC statement on their new background check programme.

Thank you, but I was asking about the numbers for how many schools require checks, not about the new AAMC program. Many schools have required checks for a long time now, however, I don't know how many of the total. All 10 of the schools I applied to did, and I'm fairly certain the new AAMC program is just to make an unified requirement.

 

[NN11]

Thank you, but I was asking about the numbers for how many schools require checks, not about the new AAMC program. Many schools have required checks for a long time now, however, I don't know how many of the total. All 10 of the schools I applied to did, and I'm fairly certain the new AAMC program is just to make an unified requirement.

This is what I know: All Illinois and Pennsylvania schools do background checks because it is State Law.

 

[Captain Fantastic]

No they are not. Only the schools that want to be in their pilot program will background check their students. Believe it or not people there are alot of schools that dont and dont want to check. Right now only about 20% of schools actually do background checks.

You're right. I misread it. Only a handful of schools are participating in the AMCAS background check system this cycle. Next cycle is when they plan on making it available to all schools. My bad.

 

[scgroat]

Well, OP, if you only have one violation reported, then state that you only have one violation. Your background check will not occur until after your acceptance, right? At that point, the others may show up, but you have answered honestly. If the background check confirms the dismissal of the others, you're in the clear. Even if the wording is different, you'll likely get your say. The only way your acceptance will subsequently get revoked is if a MUCH more serious violation is reported.

 

[HumbleMD]

You got caught three times? Smooth move Ex-Lax.

You're going to have to report it and explain it. You won't have to put it on the primary as its not a felony, but many schools will ask if you've ever been convicted of a crime. Heck some schools ask if you've ever received any instititional action at your school (like being too loud in your dorm room). It's much better to report, than to have a school think you were lying and rescind the acceptance in July.

 

[scgroat]

Let me reiterate. Your school counts three warnings as one violation, right? You are required to put down one violation. Simply explain that you were irresponsible early on in your college career and happened to get cited on a given day. You are not lying, and you are not misleading them. Be honest, but don't stick your foot in your mouth by telling them too much. For instance, if your A in organic chemistry was due to a teacher being merciful, are you going to tell that. I DONT think so. Your conscience says that the A was not legit, but you're not required to go into specifics, are you? Same thing here.

 

[HumbleMD]

Let me reiterate. Your school counts three warnings as one violation, right? You are required to put down one violation. Simply explain that you were irresponsible early on in your college career and happened to get cited on a given day. You are not lying, and you are not misleading them. Be honest, but don't stick your foot in your mouth by telling them too much. For instance, if your A in organic chemistry was due to a teacher being merciful, are you going to tell that. I DONT think so. Your conscience says that the A was not legit, but you're not required to go into specifics, are you? Same thing here.

Stupid conscience, always getting in the way of the real fun in life. Rape, murder, extortion...