Bad O-chem Grade

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Nigel2011

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I am a sophomore pre-med student at the University of Dayton in Dayton, Ohio. I took organic chemistry and received a grade of C for the first semester, and a grade of D for the second semester.

The thing that bugs me is that I did try very hard to bring up my grade. I studied more than I've ever studied before, and I still ended up with a bad grade.

I'm wondering whether or not a D in organic chemistry will be a death sentence for getting into med school. I'm not shooting for a top med school by any means. I was hoping to get into the Boonshoft School of Medicine at Wright State University, but I understand that my chances of getting into my first choice school are slim.

I would hate to retake organic chemistry, but if I absolutely have to in order to get into medical school, I will.

I've been doing lots of volunteer work. I'm a volunteer EMT who serves on his school's Emergency Response Squad. I've also volunteered at a hospital and spent quite a bit of time observing doctors and nurses perform procedures and deal with patients.

So based on these circumstances, should I retake the second semester of organic chemistry? Should I take it over the summer? Should I take it at a different school? :confused:
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Nigel2011 said:
I am a sophomore pre-med student at the University of Dayton in Dayton, Ohio. I took organic chemistry and received a grade of C for the first semester, and a grade of D for the second semester.

The thing that bugs me is that I did try very hard to bring up my grade. I studied more than I've ever studied before, and I still ended up with a bad grade.

I'm wondering whether or not a D in organic chemistry will be a death sentence for getting into med school. I'm not shooting for a top med school by any means. I was hoping to get into the Boonshoft School of Medicine at Wright State University, but I understand that my chances of getting into my first choice school are slim.

I would hate to retake organic chemistry, but if I absolutely have to in order to get into medical school, I will.

I've been doing lots of volunteer work. I'm a volunteer EMT who serves on his school's Emergency Response Squad. I've also volunteered at a hospital and spent quite a bit of time observing doctors and nurses perform procedures and deal with patients.

So based on these circumstances, should I retake the second semester of organic chemistry? Should I take it over the summer? Should I take it at a different school? :confused:
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You absolutely have to retake it.
 
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I'm pretty sure you can't make less than a C in an pre-req course. Definitely re-take; the grades won't necessarily hurt you. I did well this cycle with a C+ in orgo II.
 
I'd consider retaking organic I as well - not for the grade so much as to make sure you understand the fundamentals - nearly everything you'll learn in an intro organic course boils down to just a few core ideas that you must have a firm grasp of if you wish to do well. If this isn't an option for you, I'd recommend you personally review, say, chapter 1-7 in your organic textbook, making sure you nail down everything on resonance, acidity, and polarization.
 
If you tried that hard and could only manage a D, maybe you should go to nursing school.
 
Okay, so given the fact that I need to retake the class:

Should I take it over the summer? Do people usually do better or worse when they take it over the summer?
 
you MUST retake. Med school does not accept grades lower than a C in any pre-reqs.

As far as when to re-take this is something you need to decide, remember this material WILL be on the MCAT so its not going away.

Taking a shortened course over the summer may not help you at all for future application of the material. (<<thats only my opinion, take it leave it ignore it, just making sure you relize that this may not be the case at your school.)
 
Retake and play nice with it, Orgo will come back to haunt you on the MCAT
 
zidrem said:
If you tried that hard and could only manage a D, maybe you should go to nursing school.
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I think you should change your status to pre-jackass.

Nigel, there are different types of people and different types of learning. Sometimes different books utilize different styles. I'm doing better now in Organic Chemistry after I bought supplemental material such as "Organic Chemistry as a Second Language" and other additional material. It really helped to review the material, re-check the reagents, do some of the harder synthesis problems, and then test how much I absorbed during exam time. Even though I'm still struggling, I don't believe that the world begins or ends at Organic Chemistry.

Then again I don't believe that the world begins or ends with being a doctor. But there is studying, and then there is "studying efficiently." Second time is always the charm. Don't lose hope. The difference between a depressed story and a success story is the mentality and the fact that you never give up. Of course, I've had to adopt this mantra because I can't change my major due to binding scholarships and the only thing I can do is move on. But I feel you.
 
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Oh come on. I'm not the only one who thought it.

Orgo isn't that hard.
 
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zidrem said:
Oh come on. I'm not the only one who thought it.

Orgo isn't that hard.
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Depends. I've seen some pretty crazy tests though. Like a whole page where you had to label from 1-16 the varying degrees of basic nature of alkyl amines and the only think separating them from one another was the alkyl positioning like a secondary or a tertiary group coming off the secondary amine. I mean, what the hell.

Orgo isn't my thing. But no way in hell am I going to get a D over my dead body.
 
Orgo isn't my thing. But no way in hell am I going to get a D over my dead body.
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My point exactly. I mean, surely someone got an A in the class. Either the person wasn't trying as hard as they said they were, or (if they were truly trying hard) they should be concerned.

In any case, take the class again, obviously, but make it your last time. Orgo is generally the best pre-req indicator of how hard a person is willing to work. My guess is that it is weighed heavily.

Over or under?: in one week this guy will be banned.
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Really, dude? It's a public forum; the concept of getting banned is not that daunting (and I think this hardly merits it). But okay.

And like I said, I'm not the only one who thought it. Don't make the situation look better to the OP than it is. It sucks.
 
Nigel2011 said:
Okay, so given the fact that I need to retake the class:

Should I take it over the summer? Do people usually do better or worse when they take it over the summer?
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I took organic over the summer, and let me tell you, it was tough but worth it. I was with several people who made C's during the previous school year who landed A's in the summer, so it's totally possible.

When you take a class in the summer, you may tend to really dig into it. That's what I did, and I got good results from it. It sounds like you're dedicated so I'd suggest it if you are willing to spend a summer in your organic text!

Don't get too bummed out; organic's not for everyone. Luckily, the organic on the MCAT is pretty basic if you know the principles. But either way, retake it.
 
To Zidrem: Please ! If you gonna post somting that just to hurt the OP, why dont u just go get a LIFE?
 
Nigel2011 said:
Okay, so given the fact that I need to retake the class:

Should I take it over the summer? Do people usually do better or worse when they take it over the summer?
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Don't take it in summer, you have a test every 2 weeks on 2-4 chapters and grades during summer sessions are always bad.

Also, the teacher will tell you he won't curve until the last 3 weeks of class; so the whole time you are stressing to keep up with the material and you are stressing about the past 2 or 3 tests where you already lost hope in your grade.
 
For those of you who are giving me a hard time for "working hard" and still getting a D in organic chemistry:

Shame on you. I came to this forum looking for inspiration and motivation. You are a disgrace to the medical community. Please only say something if it is helpful, not hurtful.

For those of you giving me decent advice:

Thank you. I really do appreciate your help. It is good people like you that make me want to keep trying and give it my all.
 
You will not be considered with those grades, period. While it may or may not be diagnostic, depending on who you ask, the schools do place heavy weight on this set of courses because they are restriction courses and many change their majors or dropout after them. In that light, med schools tend to look at those who continue as people who should have changed, but didn't.

Check my post history, as I've given advice from my perspective on how to survive Organic Chem, as well as the importance it may have in later learning.

In your position, whether you believe it or not, Organic Chem is not as hard as you may think. It's mostly a matter of applying the time to do it, and understand such things as the first four chapters and mastering them well before the semester starts. Once that is done, the course can be much easier, and believe it or not, somewhat fun.

I don't recommend taking it over the summer.

I practiced my own advice and did extraordinarily well. I now live in Europe and applied to med school while living here and those courses were scrutinized here in a highly competitive world-ranked medical program.

If you can take both over after following my advice, as well as placing highly in both, then you have a shot. If you can not do it a second time around, then I would consider a change.

Again, I don't believe Organic is as hard as it is a large volume to learn in a limited time. Even such things as a better class schedule can make the difference between two A-level students and one getting a C or a D and one getting the A or B.

Check the search, as I've posted about how to master o-chem. I did well, and tutored in both sections. However, you'll get tons of advice, some good, some bad, some maliciously bad, to master it. The best way to do it is simple: arm yourself with the mastering of chapters 1-4 inside and out before the course starts. Do every problem, check with the solutions manual, and do them again. This could determine the outcome of your life, potentially.
 
What's your major? If it's not chem or biochem, you have time retake o-chem entirely, be it over the summer or next year(I would suggest next year if you can, because med schools don't like to see pre-reqs being taken over the summer). MD schools will average your first grades and your retake grades when considering your gpa, and DO schools will only consider the retakes.

If you ARE a biochem or chem major, you may have no choice but to retake it over the summer. A lot of other classes require that you've taken orgo, such as biochem I and II, and most bchem majors at my school take that their junior year. So don't delay; retake both ASAP. It will really hurt your science GPA if you don't; I had a C in gen chem my freshman year, and I'm still paying for it.

Realize that one bad grade won't kill you in admissions, so long as you can show them while retaking that you CAN do well. In addition, if you take many more science classes and bring up your science GPA, you should be fine, granted the rest of your application is strong. Good luck!
 
Nigel2011 said:
For those of you who are giving me a hard time for "working hard" and still getting a D in organic chemistry:

Shame on you. I came to this forum looking for inspiration and motivation. You are a disgrace to the medical community. Please only say something if it is helpful, not hurtful.
Click to expand...

Nigel, I think a lot of regular posters on this forum see too many people come in and whine about how they tried really hard and still received a poor grade in some class. While it may not be the case with you, a lot of these people don't really understand what working hard in a class really entails. As a result, you get some sarcastic remarks...

Don't take it so personally
 
hoot504 said:
Nigel, I think a lot of regular posters on this forum see too many people come in and whine about how they tried really hard and still received a poor grade in some class. While it may not be the case with you, a lot of these people don't really understand what working hard in a class really entails. As a result, you get some sarcastic remarks...

Don't take it so personally
Click to expand...


It's not that I take it personally. It's just a waste of my time when people post comments that aren't going to help in any way. People can make all the judgments they want about how hard I actually worked, but the fact is I need advice about retaking the course, not sarcastic comments.

I worked hard- but obviously not hard enough. I understand that. I don't need people to tell me that, especially sarcastically.
 
Some people are telling me to take it over the summer, and some are telling me not to take it over the summer.

Here is what I'm thinking:

Maybe taking it over the summer would be better because I don't have other classes to worry about? Maybe I will be able to stay more focused on Orgo because it is intensive and I have less distractions?

On the other hand, maybe I will have more difficulty with it in the summer because it is so much material packed into such a small amount of time?


I have talked to several doctors who had to retake organic chemistry and they are doing fine. They went to good med schools and now have jobs as doctors. So for those of you saying I don't belong in medicine, I disagree.

I think my problem is that I don't really know how to study. In high school, I didn't have to study much for tests, and my grades were pretty good. So I guess I never really "learned" proper studying techniques, and maybe that is why my studying has been unsuccessful.
 
If you've seen most of the material before, it's not like you're reinventing the wheel. Summer organic is a lot harder when you've never seen it at all before. So I'd say you could do the summer class provided you keep working hard. You'll do alright.

Advice: work problems every night. Read the chapters ahead of time before lectures. Work more problems. Then work some more. Work the problems over and over. Make it a second nature to you. But really make sure you know why things are happening, and don't just memorize the product of a reaction. Learn your mechanisms and why they work that way.
 
Hi, I am an MD and ER doc. Was just lurking and found your post. I failed 2nd semester gen chm twice. Although I did 4.0 both semesters of organic. Don't give up. Retake it. Make sure to get a different teacher and buy supplemental books (organic chem. chem. made easy&#8230; etc). Buy the models too. As soon as you start the class meet with the teacher and let them know you will need extra help. Then live the course! I think summer would be ok if that is the only thing you are doing. Keep trying! In my interview I laughed about the failures and said that "one often learns more from failures then from success". I also wrote something like that in my personal statement.
 
I've decided to retake the course during the next fall semester. I'm taking a genetics course this summer to lighten-up my credit load for the fall semester (when I'll now be taking Ochem instead.)

Any thoughts?
 
Nigel,

After reading these forums for a while I finally went and signed up to be able to reply to your posts! I'm excited about it for a few reasons, one of them is that we are (or have been in my case) in very similar shoes!

- I'm also a student at UD :p I'm a year older, and i'll be graduating a semester early in December. I'm taking my mcat on june 12 (of which i am preparing for right now)

Anyway, last summer, I actually DID take both Ochem 1 and 2! (6 week semesters where fun :) Doing both in 12 weeks).... Oh, and I also took Bio 1 an 2, and medical ethics online (I switched my major outta engineering so i had some catchin up to do sorta)

Anyway, got me my A's in bio 1 and 2 and medical ethics..... I got a C and a C+ in the ochems... I'm not retaking them mainly for financial reasons... Oh, and I got a B in biochem (coulda done a little better, but o well).

I liked biochem a lot more (Dr. Lopper is amazing! ill share tips with you later).

Oh, and that C i got? Was in Dr. Church's class.... He doesnt give minuses or pluses (C-/C+) :mad: I woulda got the +.

Also, Dr. Morrow, from what Ive heard (and experienced), gives some extra cred during the regular semesters (dunno how much), he gave none to us summer students.

Sooo, yes, super hard during the summer. Lotta studying=no life (which, during the summer, means sacrificing frisbee time in the beautiful weather and campus.)

Over-all, I think you made the right choice. But I think you should consider taking more than just genetics over the summer. Add another class if you can which will make things even easier during regular semesters (like in the winter, to give u time for the mcat, so you can take it in may.) I chose to take mine in June to give myself extra time.

Oh, and try NOT to get Dr. Singh for cell biology! Worst teacher Ive ever had! (can explain that later between us too).

Anyway, sorry for being long winded, pm me or just reply an we can talk more :)
 
Nigel2011 said:
I've decided to retake the course during the next fall semester. I'm taking a genetics course this summer to lighten-up my credit load for the fall semester (when I'll now be taking Ochem instead.)

Any thoughts?
Click to expand...
I think that's a great decision you made. I never recommend people towards summer O-chem. You will have time, even with your courseload, to actually take in info and process it during the semester.
 
I took Orgo over the summer and did well, got all A's except for an A- in one of the labs(got the A- because they graded on accuracy in labs :p). Taking it in the summer makes you focus on just Orgo and nothing else which is a def plus. Although we covered a chapter every day and we were tested on a frequent basis, it wasn't that bad and I found myself having a lot of free time on the weekends. Then again it depends on what school your taking it at. I took it at a state university and I do not know how they teach at other colleges over the summer. The class average in the summer was in the high D low C range, but don't get discouraged bc the people that didn’t perform well didn’t work hard or they didn’t know how to study properly. Like others said check your study habits, for Orgo will really test how well you can study. PM me if you need any pointers on how to study for Orgo, I tutored a lot of individuals during the class and found that most of the people that did poorly just didn't know how to properly study. Best of Luck! :)
 
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