*Bad* vets.... *terrible* vets...

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On a slightly lighter note, we have a giant, preserved heartworm-infested heart in our waiting room at the clinic I work at. Apparently we've gotten a few complaints about it, but the vets refuse to take it down.

I'm a huge fan of grossing people out. Let them see how disgusting something is and they'll be more likely to take action. I love the terrible dental photos and jar parasites. I know I'll probably go out of my way to demonstrate just how nasty some stuff can be. ;) Heck, if it wasn't for all those horrific pictures at the dentist's I wouldn't have brushed as well as a kid.

Seeing the comments from her "enlightened" followers and dealing with all the extra special clients at work (summer of the crazies, anyone else?) makes me want to specialize more and more in a field that has reduced client interaction.

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Ok one more interesting heartworm tidbit! Last one I swear!

The animal most susceptible to HW infections are FERRETS! It takes relatively few worms to kill a ferret (as little as 1-3). So if you are a ferret person this might be something you should be concerned with. As for me, I think ferrets are stinky (even the de-scented ones!)
 
I'm a huge fan of grossing people out. Let them see how disgusting something is and they'll be more likely to take action. I love the terrible dental photos and jar parasites. I know I'll probably go out of my way to demonstrate just how nasty some stuff can be. ;) Heck, if it wasn't for all those horrific pictures at the dentist's I wouldn't have brushed as well as a kid.

Seeing the comments from her "enlightened" followers and dealing with all the extra special clients at work (summer of the crazies, anyone else?) makes me want to specialize more and more in a field that has reduced client interaction.

:thumbup:
 
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I'm a huge fan of grossing people out. Let them see how disgusting something is and they'll be more likely to take action. I love the terrible dental photos and jar parasites. I know I'll probably go out of my way to demonstrate just how nasty some stuff can be. ;) Heck, if it wasn't for all those horrific pictures at the dentist's I wouldn't have brushed as well as a kid.

When I was a SA tech, I made it a point to escort clients back to the microscope to look when their pets had ear mites, since those are easy for them to see and gross looking. :D
 
Well, gee whiz! Vet school must be easy... if this woman can do it, anyone can!

...oh, wait. That's right. She didn't GO to vet school. Hmm. She must have mad math skills, though. 50% of all vets graduate in the bottom 1/2 of their class? I would have never guessed that. Someone get this lady a MENSA membership! :rolleyes:

And since she has no scientific background, I'm assuming that she gets her (mis)information from anti-vet propaganda very similar to her own.

I know this video should make me furious, but it kind of cracked me up, because I know better than to believe her crazy ramblings. Now, the fact that there are people out here who watch this and actually take her advice, now that really curds my cheese.

BTW, on a lighter note, this thread is making me miss Parasitology. That was a fun class. :D
 
I defend my master thesis on Tuesday (AHHH!) but that also means it will be my last day as the parasitology TA here at good ole A&M. While I am excited about being finished with this hellish degree I am also kind-of sad. Parasites have been my life for 3 years!

You wanna see GROSS, we have over 20,000 specimens lining our back wall. Whenever people come to visit me, I make it a point to bring them into my lab, I love the reaction...especially from non-vet people! I like to show them the human parasites we have on our "exotic" shelf LOL
 
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It is kind of fun to go through and leave snarky comments to some of the more ridiculous posts people have made. I doubt they'll get "approved", though.
 
Yeah, so im a bit confused... never dealt with leaving comments on YouTube - they are moderated? By who, the person who posted the video?

I always thought it was a free for all - I did make 2-3 posts, and they never showed up
 
Yeah, so im a bit confused... never dealt with leaving comments on YouTube - they are moderated? By who, the person who posted the video?

I always thought it was a free for all - I did make 2-3 posts, and they never showed up

Not all comments are moderated on YouTube. Just on the videos when the person doesn't want to show any comments against what they're propagating in the video.

So, basically, she's screening the comments of everyone that disagrees with her. Because she can't deal with logical arguments or criticism.

I've been thumbs-downing all of the ridiculous comments though, which is therapeutic, but means I have to read the comments. And apparently Dr. YouTube Cruella "Book" Writer knows/cares more than Dr. Went to Four Years of Veterinary School After Their Bachelor's Degree or Their Master's Degree and Is Actually a Real Doctor with a Degree and Everything.

But these are probably the same people who refuse to get their kids vaccinated and cause mumps and measles outbreaks.
 
I like how she talks about the danger of rabies vaccines yet in the "related videos" to the right there are videos of children dying from rabies! Hate is a strong word, but I hate this women. She is ignorant and a danger to society.


Remember World Rabies Day is September 28th 2009
http://www.worldrabiesday.org/
 
OT: I didn't read all the posts thoroughly (except for the hilarious comment about a skunk being glued to Cruella's head!), but I see a lot of you have done blood smears, fecal floats, checked for parasites, etc where you've worked. Is it bad that I've never done any of those things as a tech? I would have liked to learn but we always sent everything to a lab where they faxed us the result. The most I've done was automated hematology at an equine clinic...:( I feel lost and unprepared for school (which starts on MONDAY!:eek:)
 
I don't think there is any such thing as OT in this thread Hopeful.

As for your (lack) of certain skills as a tech, I wouldn't worry about it. A) I think the SDN community is by definition, a bit above the average (even amongst other students), I mean, for all of our joking around and yapping, we are all trying very hard to learn from each other, and I just don't think the average vet/pre-vet student goes that far.

B) Everyone has different experiences and has learned different things... I am SURE you have quite a few skills from working as a vet tech that I never learned/developed.
 
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I struggle with training associates that do foolish things like give another dogs prescription eye meds to a foster dog to clear their eyes out because they are sure the gunk is just from 'detoxing' on the wholistic raw diet they are now feeding and there isn't a need to consult a vet and make sure there isn't a scratch or infections.

I think I recently took behaviorist off of my list of potential careers because trainers that I respect, that I know are skilled and intelligent, seem to think they know more than the vets...not just in behavior, but in terms of science, and research, and medical care. It frightens me.
 
If it makes you feel better, hopefulvet, I can do parasite checks, but not smears. I am horrible at restraining cats (especially super bony or super obese ones), and the vet I worked for would regularly chew me out because of it...citing the fact that I worked with a zoo vet, how come I couldn't restrain a simple domestic kitty? Easy, blow darts didn't require restraint....I like the kitties with their claws and teeth far better when they aren't conscious. I can do dentals, but have a hard time getting blood. That whole conscious thing....

I also think a lot of it depends on where you got your experience. The clinic I worked at saw rabbits, but just hired a vet who had never, not once, handled a rabbit.
 
Someone get this lady a MENSA membership! Now, the fact that there are people out here who watch this and actually take her advice, now that really curds my cheese.

:rofl: Ahahahahaha!!!! This just made my day :D ...curds my cheese....lmao

I defend my master thesis on Tuesday (AHHH!)

Good luck! But it's Tuesday, so you're probably already done. I'm sure you did great! :thumbup:
 
I am horrible at restraining cats (especially super bony or super obese ones), and the vet I worked for would regularly chew me out because of it...citing the fact that I worked with a zoo vet, how come I couldn't restrain a simple domestic kitty? Easy, blow darts didn't require restraint....I like the kitties with their claws and teeth far better when they aren't conscious. I can do dentals, but have a hard time getting blood. That whole conscious thing....
I am terrible with cats too. I haven't had much experience with them yet (and I am hoping experience will make it easier to work with them), but the little experience I do have hasn't been positive. They are so fast and moody! I am honestly more afraid of cats then cattle. :scared:
 
I also think a lot of it depends on where you got your experience. The clinic I worked at saw rabbits, but just hired a vet who had never, not once, handled a rabbit.

:scared: I hope they get some training from the other vets - properly doing rabbit medicine does require special knowledge and technique. Honestly, if a vet had never worked with rabbits before, they really ought to hold off on seeing those patients until they've got some basic rabbit knowledge/skills.

From someone who has extensive rabbit experience, a rabbit in the hands of a non-rabbit informed vet can turnn out to be a disaster - potentially a lethal one.

And just to add to the conversation I'm also not too great with restraining cats - if they growl it gets handed to someone else. Especially for jugular blood draws, I never feel like I get a good enough grasp on their head. I really prefer holding for the back leg, but we almost never use that at my clinic. But on the plus side I'm getting better at drawing blood, which means less restraining!
 
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:scared: I hope they get some training from the other vets - properly doing rabbit medicine does require special knowledge and technique. Honestly, if a vet had never worked with rabbits before, they really ought to hold off on seeing those patients until they've got some basic rabbit knowledge/skills.

From someone who has extensive rabbit experience, a rabbit in the hands of a non-rabbit informed vet can turnn out to be a disaster - potentially a lethal one.

Actually, they already made the call that rabbits wouldn't be scheduled with her. And I know what you mean, I had a tech improperly grasp a small smoked pearl dutch, who then kicked. My guess is she was holding the doe wrong, since it snapped her spine. really upset me, as she was a beautiful doe and one of my breeders. It was at a state fair, random vet inspection.
 
I defend my master thesis on Tuesday (AHHH!) but that also means it will be my last day as the parasitology TA here at good ole A&M. While I am excited about being finished with this hellish degree I am also kind-of sad. Parasites have been my life for 3 years!

Hope the thesis thing went well! Jars of parasites are awesome. :D

And Poochlover, it's funny, I'm pretty much the opposite. I've handled many evil cats (I'm pretty sure a few were possessed by satan or something, if you believe in that stuff ;)) all day, but when it comes to horses and cows- yikes! Scary hooves! :scared: Good thing we're all into something different. :)
 
OT: I didn't read all the posts thoroughly (except for the hilarious comment about a skunk being glued to Cruella's head!), but I see a lot of you have done blood smears, fecal floats, checked for parasites, etc where you've worked. Is it bad that I've never done any of those things as a tech? I would have liked to learn but we always sent everything to a lab where they faxed us the result. The most I've done was automated hematology at an equine clinic...:( I feel lost and unprepared for school (which starts on MONDAY!:eek:)

With one year of vet school down, I've never done anything except for your basic fecal floats yet, so don't feel bad. Its always something only licensed techs have done where I have worked.

I am a master cat restrainer though, if that makes up for anything!
 
I am a master cat restrainer though, if that makes up for anything!

this counts for a lot!!! i worked at an emergency clinic -- restraining super sick kitties, NOT FUN! i don't know how i made it out of there with all my fingers. when i had to draw blood for BGs i depended on a really good restrainer, so being a master cat restrainer is a big deal. :)
 
I hate to say it but the reason this lady's over-the-top campaign resounds with so many un-educated and under-informed pet owners is because the lies are laced with truths. I have just extricated myself form the most mind F*ing crazy stressful arduous tech job ever and i must say the vet i worked for did a lot of those things she warned about in her video and on many occaisons it really was bad practice for the vet to do so. The idiots posting things like not wanting to pay for heart worm meds and exams fees cling to her dogma because they are probably cheap and un educated about good pet care but others may have experience genuinely bad vet practices.

I think a lot of vets become accoustomed to the cheap, skeptical, clients who don't want to spend much money and do just the bare minimum. They assume a lot of people are like this and get in the habit of a protocol that isn't really best for all the animals. Owners that are ok with spending money and would do the best for their animal don't always get all their options offered and explained to them.

from her video, some practices that I have seen done on a regular basis and that i believe are not in the best interest of the pet are:

NOT referring difficult cases. I have seen so much of this i can't even begin to say . . .

Vaccinating sick animals and animals undergoing surgery. If the owner insists I'm ok w/ the after surgery part of this, but i just don't think owners get the concept EXPLAINED to them so they don't know what's going on unitl later when someone like this quacks tells them and then guess who's side they're on . . .

Taking them into the back and performing various test and administering treatment/medication without the owners consent. Even the best vet I've worked with didn't always get into price unless something was expensive but he always expalined what we were going to do to the animal and why before taking it back and performing said treatment.

i'm not for this scared poopless lady at all but as the generation that will fill the shoes of our predecessors i think we as vets need to see the truths embedded that make the bull**** so willingly gobbled by our clients.

The two things that really stand out to me as remedies for this illness of misinformation are 1) practitioner-client communication. Even if you think the client didn't graduate high school you need to try and explain to the client at whatever level they're at what the treatment plan is and why and any other info they need, and they need to feel like they understand and are in control of what is going on with their pet. 2) The whole staff and the policies of the clinic have to be in tune to make sure the previous can occur. Most of the over and inappropriately timed vaccination I've seen has happened when the doctor is not involved and a recepionist or even occaisionally a tech just gives vaccines because they're due or the owner asked for them and the vet doesn't even know what's going on.

I'm not trying to get on a soap box here but noe one has addressed the legitimacies of her claims, however few and far between they may be. I know the vet I worked for was below par in the way she practiced but I'm also sure there ane a lot more similar practices out there.
 
Thanks petdoc and zpinkpanther!!! My defense went smoothly and I can say I have officially "mastered" veterinary parasitology!! Hopefully the transition to vet school will also be a success ;)

All I know is that I am forever done with research!
 
Thanks petdoc and zpinkpanther!!! My defense went smoothly and I can say I have officially "mastered" veterinary parasitology!! Hopefully the transition to vet school will go as well :)
 
InanOven, I agree with a lot of what you are saying, especially that lacing her flight of fancy with some truths gives the rest of her arguments the allure of truth... however, I am going to disagree on the whole vaccine thing.

Now, I have an extensive immunology background, but let me throw in the caveat that I have NO clinical immunology experience (well, until next week). From what I know and understand, vaccines are NOT particularly stressful on an organisms body.

I am sure some are worse then others, and I am going to try and pull up some papers that correlate titers pre/post vaccination when an animal is vaccinated during surgery and/or stressed, but right now, if it was my dog - especially if bringing the animal to the vet was stressful in its own right (to me or the animal), I'd have no problem with my vet vaccinating my dog during a routine spay/neuter (which is what I assume the majority of the cases are).

Now, i am going to hold off my final thoughts on the matter till I read some papers addressing this, I am totally able to admit when I am wrong, but my gut tells me its not that big of a deal.

Finally, something that this lady doesn't really address, a lot of animals (Dogs and Cats especially) get very stressed when brought into the vet. In those situations particularly, I think giving mroe then one vaccine at a time is very warranted and 'ok'.

Just MHO, with the limited knowledge I have.

PS If anyone already has the research done, I'd love to see something that correlates titers and vaccination (Stressed vs. Unstressed) - otherwise Ill link it tonight
 
Thanks petdoc and zpinkpanther!!! My defense went smoothly and I can say I have officially "mastered" veterinary parasitology!! Hopefully the transition to vet school will go as well :)

All I can say is, when you get to Parasit, you're gonna ace that class without even trying! :cool: :D
 
No Imagination, I *think* that vaccinating sick animals is a no no because when an animal is sick, it might not generate the proper immune response to confer lasting immunity. I don't have any background in immunology, though, and this is just sort of a hazy recollection from some CE class or conversation with someone, so I could be totally wrong!
 
But these are probably the same people who refuse to get their kids vaccinated and cause mumps and measles outbreaks.

There were pre-medical Molecular Bio & Microbiology majors in my upper division Pathogenic Microbiology class who were saying they were going to refuse to vaccinate their children just as we were talking about how vaccinations have nearly eradicated so many diseases. :smack:

Of course I, being not much different off the internet than I am on it, couldn't resist commenting and starting a pretty heated debate. I won. :smuggrin:
 
There were pre-medical Molecular Bio & Microbiology majors in my upper division Pathogenic Microbiology class who were saying they were going to refuse to vaccinate their children just as we were talking about how vaccinations have nearly eradicated so many diseases. :smack:

Got ya beat, we had TWO molecular biology faculty who were creationists... Thankfully they are both gone now.

Sad part is, I've heard some creationists make some damn good arguements AGAINST evolution... Neither of these two were able to form anything better then "God made it happen [in southern drawl]"

I used to love flaunting my shirt "Evolution is just a theory, kinda like gravity is just a theory"
 
No Imagination, I *think* that vaccinating sick animals is a no no because when an animal is sick, it might not generate the proper immune response to confer lasting immunity.

Right on. We heard a story of a clinic that suddenly saw an outbreak of parvo in vaccinated puppies because they were giving the pups an NSAID with the vaccine to reduce post-vaccine pain. The NSAID was enough to prevent a good, strong immune response and development of immune memory.
 
In my (science major) introductory biology class, almost a third of the class said that they didn't believe in evolution. The professor's response was something to the line of "Well, you're going to have to believe in it simply for this class, no matter what your personal beliefs are. And you're going to have to learn the mechanisms behind it."

I was too shell-shocked to really think anything. Almost a third?! (Needless to say, I live in the south.)
 
Those newfangled fossils were put in the ground by satan to lead us down his unholy path of logic! :rolleyes:

I soooo need to be studying right now... :oops:
 
I'm actually taking creation and evolution right now... pretty interesting stuff. I know the class is at least 50% creationists, and I bet it's more. He's arguing both sides pretty well, but I'm having a damn hard time rationalizing the side I'm not in support of... I suppose they feel the same way, huh?
 
All I can say is, when you get to Parasit, you're gonna ace that class without even trying! :cool: :D

That would be really embarrassing if I didn't get an A! Anatomy on the other hand scares the daylights out of me :\

Stealthdog, that parvo / NSAID story is very interesting. Do you know if there is any literature about it or is it just specualtion?
 
Got ya beat, we had TWO molecular biology faculty who were creationists.

There are people in my current class that don't believe in evolution, and one of them started talking to me about it. I asked what she thought about the fact that you can see evolution at work on a small scale with microbiology. Apparently she believes in evolution for bacteria and small organisms on that order, but not for people.
 
Oh my gosh, I thought it was a spoof video at first. I can't believe this lady is serious.
 
There are people in my current class that don't believe in evolution, and one of them started talking to me about it. I asked what she thought about the fact that you can see evolution at work on a small scale with microbiology. Apparently she believes in evolution for bacteria and small organisms on that order, but not for people.

That is SO STRANGE because there's a pretty substantial group of creationists that believe that evolution did not happen because of something called "irreducible complexity." That is, they believe that evolution kinda makes sense at the 'macro' level (fish->amphibians->reptiles or whatnot) but that it isn't possible on the 'micro' level (cells and cellular processes, enzymes, and the like). The main guy supporting this theory is a guy named Michael Behe, and he uses examples like blood clotting and flagella to support the notion that, because these processes only function as a whole, it's impossible for them to have evolved. No one part of the structure or process works without the rest, so there is a flaw in the little-by-little idea that evolutionists support.

Of course, his argument is what's flawed (I'm not biased, haha) but it has quite a few followers. Here's a Wiki if anyone is interested (and because I'm not sure I did a great job explaining it):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Irreducible_complexity

So, dyachei, I am very surprised to hear that someone believes exactly the opposite. Have they shared any significant reason why they believe that? I'm incredibly curious now!
 
So, dyachei, I am very surprised to hear that someone believes exactly the opposite. Have they shared any significant reason why they believe that? I'm incredibly curious now!

Actually I think the view of the person dyachei is talking about is more common than what Behe is advocating.
 
So, dyachei, I am very surprised to hear that someone believes exactly the opposite. Have they shared any significant reason why they believe that? I'm incredibly curious now!

Interesting. I believe the reasons cited are that bacteria are insignificant compared to humans and higher level creatures. And that God had to create people and animals because the Bible says so.

I just find it hard to reconcile those beliefs.
 
It's funny, there are so many nit-picks creationists throw at evolution: irreducible complexity; micro-evolution occurs, but macro-evolution isn't possible through the processes of micro-evolution; etc... Usually creationists adhere to any or all of them. Of course, this is a terrible way to refute a scientific theory. You can't nit-pick a theory to death, you have to propose a better alternative. A theory which is produces falsifiable predictions that better explain and predict natural phenomena. Because they can't do this, they try to find "cracks in the wall of evolutionary theory."

The funny thing about both of these nit-picks is that they are founded upon a fundamental misunderstanding of evolutionary theory. There is no dichotomy between micro and macro-evolution. Speciation can occur in one generation or millions. All that's required is a reproductive isolation mechanism- be it genetic or environmental. As for irreducible complexity, Behe's own calculations do not take into account natural selection, an obvious and important component of evolution.

I used to do research in cotton polyploid and Drosophila evolution. In both cases, I saw evolution taking place and also recognized it's foot print in the form of phylogenetic relationships which matched known spacial dispersion events. For people to utterly ignore a very well supported theory on the basis of their personal, religious belief is something I just can't understand. I know many people who, while very commited to their religion, do not object to evolutionary theory in general. I just don't understand why this is still a debate in society.

I think it has to do with the low level of scientific understanding in the general population. Getting back to the OP, this lack of understanding is a problem for everyone and is why non-experts can make un-supported claims sound factual. If people don't have even a basic understanding of biology, how can they really understand what's being discussed? Recently, I had a woman tell me she doesn't eat GMO food because "she doesn't want to eat plants with DNA in them." Another person said that she felt bad for the animals the scientists took DNA from to make GMO's because then they wouldn't have DNA any more. Both these statements are built on a complete missunderstanding of basic molecular biology. There are valid reasons to avoid GMO's, but these certainly aren't among them...

Here's the question though, who's to blame- is it scientists, the media, politiions or the people who don't educate themselves? :confused:


EDIT:

I wanted to add that I don't necessarily think that everyone who is a creationist has a poor understanding of the scientific method or science in general. I have a very dear friend that just graduated with a PhD in Cellular Biology who is a creationist. However, she doesn't reject evolution because she feels it is scientifically inaccurate. Instead, she is a biblical literalist and feels that refuses to consider ideas which, as she puts it, "are not in concordance the bible." In this case, her faith is so strong that she simply cannot deviate from it. I respect this, even though I don't agree.
 
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So I have never heard of vaccines causing aggression and OCD and other behavioral changes. Am I the only one? Who else have you heard this from? I mean, there has got to be SOME reason- a paper or study or SOMETHING that makes people like this skunk hair lady say this (or not, but I'm just hoping she has something to back it up).
I have to admit, some of the stuff she says is ok. We do over-vaccinate and vets rarely rarely let their clients know what side effects they can cause (I'm thinking anaphlylatic shock... not ocd :oops:).
Anyways, just wondering what other people have heard out there... I came across 'vaccinosis' online before... oddly enough I couldn't find that term in ANY veterinary books :oops:)
 
Oh man, a discussion about evolution!!! I teach high school zoology and explain that evolution is a fact. The "theory" is the method in which it occurs, such as natural selection. With all of the evidence for evolution, I cannot understand how anyone can deny its existence (there are even some biology teachers at my school who are creationists!!! :eek:)
 
Hmm speaking of bad vets...
http://www.badvetdaily.blogspot.com/
I found this to be interesting. I don't really know what to think.
Yes, there probably are a lot of "bad" vets but, "enough bad vets to fill 365 days a year."
Ouch.
Some of those cases are pretty scary though...
 
That's a really weird blog. Who would take the time to write something like that? It's really hard to know what was going on just from reading the descriptions... the one about animals not having food or water could be totally legitimate if they were scheduled for surgery that day. I think the blogger should link to the actual information rather than interspersing it with snarky comments. I'd rather read it from the source.

There are bad vets, just like there are bad doctors, bad mechanics, and bad grocery baggers. But there are also a whole lot of good vets who get a bad name when people spread paranoia and animals suffer from that too. The problem with medicine is that the stakes are higher and health is somewhat unpredictable - I think people expect a quick easy fix every time and are quick to cry malpractice when it doesn't happen (speaking about human med as well).

I do think as a profession we need to weed out or educate the bad vets and have strong ethical standards so that we deserve the public's trust. And on the public's part I think they need to have a little faith and respect for a veterinarian's schooling and knowledge and listen before they discount the vet in favor of some online know it all. It goes both ways and both sides need to make the effort.
 
I glanced at the blog as well, and was immediately sorry for contributing to their web hits for the day. I'm sure bad vets exist, but I'd get my info from a more legitimate source.
 
Sad thing is, I go to a couple of boards where this woman would be worshiped. :laugh:
 
I *think* (and I might be wrong) that Bad Vet Daily is done by the same person who runs The Toonces Project: http://thetooncesproject.com/

Her pet was killed when an unsupervised, unlicensed technician injected it with an order of magnitude more insulin than the cat needed. I think that was a tragedy and should never have happened - I can see where she'd be upset and even a bit scarred at having this happen. I guess it's an important reminder that you never know just how much a pet means to a specific owner - some will shrug off terrible things with a "mistakes happen, I'll get a new cat" attitude and some have, essentially, lost their very best friend and are completely crushed.

I think it's a shame that, in this state, an unlicensed 16 year old who started work yesterday can label themselves a "veterinary technician" and clients are none the wiser, but that's a whole different can of worms. :p
 
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