BCP(M, I hate you M).

[Schemp]

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This HAS to have been asked before, but I didn't see anything on the first search page.

I really am not a fan of math, and haven't been since high school. I've managed at least a 3.0 in all my math heavy classes and that has been a serious challenge. Calculus 1-3 I averaged a 3.2 roughly, physical chem last quarter I pulled off a 3.4 which was a miracle given that I really thought I might get below a 2.5 walking out of the final, physical chem this quarter... probably going to be worse. I also have some old scores below 2.0 from a community college nearly a decade ago, but those being so old, and lower level I'm not horribly concerned about them.

What I'm curious about, particularly from people who have been on admissions committees and such, is whether people are kind of given a break on math. It seems odd that its even included in the science GPA since so many of us will have absolutely no use for calculus later in our lives (please, I hope), and the biology and chemistry seems to be what really counts in medicine. I know I'm just hoping against hope, but do people looking at applications tend to give a bit more of a break to people for doing less than stellar in math-related courses, as compared with biology and chemistry related courses?

Thanks for your comments, and feel free to commiserate with me about how much calculus sucks. Physical chemistry is the worst class I've ever taken, woo!

 

[Morsetlis]

I haven't heard of anybody dissecting why you suck at math. The BCPM GPA is what they usually discuss.

 

[Schemp]

Man, I wish they dissected.

 

[Crupen]

I see you have listed your science GPA as 3.6+ on your mdapps profile. Is that including your math courses? If so, you'll be fine. Still a good science GPA.

 

[BlueElmo]

It's BCPM. Math is part of the science GPA.

 

[Schemp]

I see you have listed your science GPA as 3.6+ on your mdapps profile. Is that including your math courses? If so, you'll be fine. Still a good science GPA.

Yeah, I'm not fretting about getting into a medical school or anything, I'm just complaining about how math is not science, and that hurts me. Hurts me deep.

 

[organdonor]

Why did you take three semesters of calc? especially if you hate math so much? I took calculus inhigh school and I am so grateful that I did. Even though I didn't get AP or college credit I breezed through calc in UG because of it.

 

[Schemp]

Why did you take three semesters of calc? especially if you hate math so much? I took calculus inhigh school and I am so grateful that I did. Even though I didn't get AP or college credit I breezed through calc in UG because of it.

Three quarters. One year. Some medical schools require it, and more importantly at the time, my community college required it for an associate's in science.

 

[HolySmokes]

Yeah, I'm not fretting about getting into a medical school or anything, I'm just complaining about how math is not science, and that hurts me. Hurts me deep.

Math isn't that bad. 🙄

 

[Morsetlis]

Three quarters. One year. Some medical schools require it, and more importantly at the time, my community college required it for an associate's in science.

I got credits for TWO college calc classes by getting a 4 on the AP Calc BC exam. Then all I had to do was take the third calc class in the series 😎 and pass with an A+ weeeee.

I suppose I should've taken statistics too, but meh.

 

[Schemp]

Math isn't that bad. 🙄

You know, it really isn't. I would have done at least marginally better in those calc classes but I couldn't ever really devote significant time to studying. It was the only class where I couldn't even bring myself to complete all the homework. I definitely don't excel at it, but it's mostly that I just find it incredibly boring and know that I'll never have to do anything at that level of sophistication while practicing as a doctor. Or while in medical school, for that matter.

 

[cfx]

Slightly OT, but does your BCPM include ALL math classes you've taken as an undergrad?

I took two math classes my first semester and didn't do wonderfully, but then took calc1-2 later on and got As. Would my BCPM include the earlier math courses, which were not even required for med school?

 

[startswithb]

Slightly OT, but does your BCPM include ALL math classes you've taken as an undergrad?

I took two math classes my first semester and didn't do wonderfully, but then took calc1-2 later on and got As. Would my BCPM include the earlier math courses, which were not even required for med school?

YES! I took a 5 hour calc course at a community college the summer after HS, and didn't study because I wasn't taking it for transfer credit and got a C. I then took Calc I as a freshman at my university and got an A. Later I realize that that ill-advised decision cost me majorly on my medical school application BCPM 4 years later.

What's WORSE is than in an interview, they counted up my Cs, including the one from when I was 18, and questioned my ability to succeed in science courses.

It's fairly devastating, but it is impossible to change the past. I explained that as a former valedictorian with a HS 4.0, I didn't know what it took to succeed in the hard sciences in college, and have maintained a strong upward trend.

I don't know how much that will help, but a very strong MCAT is definitely required to PROVE to schools that you have what it takes.

 

[Danlee07]

It sucks because things like this are just repetition... and if you don't make yourself do them, it doesn't click.

I made a stupid C in Calc I and a A in II. Only difference was that in II I practiced problems at least 5 times right after class. I looked back at I tests, I CANNOT believe I missed the easiest derivative flag pole problems.

Either way though, I made some stupid Cs in non-science classes so I know that I'm gonna have some explaining to do. just ball out from now on 🙂

 

[Mackey]

What I'm curious about, particularly from people who have been on admissions committees and such, is whether people are kind of given a break on math. It seems odd that its even included in the science GPA since so many of us will have absolutely no use for calculus later in our lives (please, I hope), and the biology and chemistry seems to be what really counts in medicine. I know I'm just hoping against hope, but do people looking at applications tend to give a bit more of a break to people for doing less than stellar in math-related courses, as compared with biology and chemistry related courses?

Your science GPA is your science GPA. Math is tough for some people, true, but discounting it due to it not being your strong point is rather selfish.

There seems to be a trend with some posts that if the OP didn't do well in a subject, then automatically its validity in the medical world is called into question.... So, you're not alone.

 

[surftheiop]

Ugh, I completely agree with this.

I have no idea why med schools feel my grades in vector calculus, differential equations, linear algebra and quantum mechanics should be part of the same category as my more standard biology and chemistry classes.

IMO instead of doing BCPM they should make the category something that just encompasses the "pre-req" classes.

If I were king of admissions process I would make it BIO I/II, Chem I/II, Organic I/II, Physics I/II .

 

[Practitioner]

i'm just complaining about how math is not science, and that hurts me.

...!

-,-

 

[SweetRain]

I think math should definitely be included in your science gpa and be considered pretty important. It's very obvious but math is the fundamental science and without it there's nothing. It sounds like you've done some upper division science courses so think about it: without Euler's theorem, there's no Young's double slit experiment or Bragg's law. Without Bragg's law, there's no x-ray crystallography. Now how are we going to determine the protein structure that holds a crucial key to some rare disease?
I agree that it's not a direct relationship, but they probably want you to have some appreciation.
I also think since math is a subject that you need to constantly keep up with It shows how hard working you are.

 

[Practitioner]

It applies more directly to pharmacology/pharmacokinetics, parts of cardiology/electrophysiology, epidemiology, and I'm sure there are a bunch of other instances immediately related to practicing medicine that use math in a direct way too.

I hate math relative to the natural sciences too, but I appreciate it as a science and its application in the sciences. Personally, I see (and teach) physics and chemistry with math kind of the "light" that makes them make sense.

Additionally, in biomedical research, moving more towards systems biology approaches to requires increasing collaboration with quantitative formal sciences to develop models and then also to help interpret results that natural science traditionally could not.

As much as I hate math, I wish I was better at it and in hind-sight wish I did more of it in high school and college. Instead of dropping it after 8th grade and taking two courses to get requirements out of the way.

 

[circulus vitios]

You know, it really isn't. I would have done at least marginally better in those calc classes but I couldn't ever really devote significant time to studying. It was the only class where I couldn't even bring myself to complete all the homework. I definitely don't excel at it, but it's mostly that I just find it incredibly boring and know that I'll never have to do anything at that level of sophistication while practicing as a doctor. Or while in medical school, for that matter.

You don't study math. You do homework and practice problems over and over until you understand it.

 

[Procyon]

I agree with OP. Math sucks. 👎

 

[the duck]

Yeah, I'm not fretting about getting into a medical school or anything, I'm just complaining about how math is not science, and that hurts me. Hurts me deep.

Math is the purest of the sciences...

 

[Schemp]

Math is the purest of the sciences...

Sure, maybe. But being good at calculus doesn't make you a better doctor (in regards to clinical duties) in any measurable way, at least for the vast majority of specialties. Having a better grasp of chemistry and biology seems to be a lot more important. Math is incredibly important, and I wish I were better at it, but I hate studying it and even when I work hard I don't do much above average at it. I'm just playing to my strengths here, and going into medicine is one small way to do that.

 

[Morsetlis]

How are you gonna become a radiation oncologist without a good grasp of math? ;p

 

[Schemp]

How are you gonna become a radiation oncologist without a good grasp of math? ;p

Ironically, the lab I currently work in falls under the Radiation Oncology department. Haha.

 

[surftheiop]

Math is the purest of the sciences...

depends who you ask, some people say that for something to be science it has to involve observations. Hypothetically, math could be invented in a dark room with no observations of the world.

 

[mcgyver]

depends who you ask, some people say that for something to be science it has to involve observations. Hypothetically, math could be invented in a dark room with no observations of the world.

untrue... math started by the caveman counting how many fingers he has.