Be careful when ranking Texas IM programs; very malignant

[greghouseMD2003]

Word to the wise,

Just FYI, especially for you IMG applicants.

Texas IM residencies are notorious for being extremely malignant and I know several residents at different places who have been fired ( I don't know why but apparently the number is what would be concerning).

Obviously, the first program would be UTSW in Dallas. We all know that they had a pretty rough evaluation from the GME people a couple of years back and had several infractions which resulted in them being placed on probation and PD was ousted. Now, new PD has been there for a while now and seems things have settled down but they routinely kick IM residents out by the boatload. Now, UTSW is definitely a reputable place and cranks out great docs so if you do make it through, your going to be set. Be prepared for hell though.

Other Dallas programs like Methodist, Baylor and Presbyterian are pretty benign compared to UTSW and each are lower tier but again they are each pretty good but I heard through the Ebola grapevine that Presbyterian only has 4 Second year residents in their program and 11 interns because they apparently got rid of 3 in just one year. Presbyterian gets rid of about 1-2 residents a year so again if you're an IMG, be very careful about this place. Methodist I think fired one resident in the last 3 years but overall program is benign. Baylor; like UTSW; almost all US grads but still very competitive. I guess, if you're thinking about ranking a Dallas program number one, I would highly advise you to think again.

Houston definitely has it's fair share of problems; most notably between UT and Baylor; they had a falling out a couple of years ago but I think this has dramatically affected UT Houston>>>>>than Baylor Houston. I know that many UT IM residents are unhappy.

Anyways, just be careful who you rank because there are a lot of toxic program in the state of Texas and I would definitely stay away from Dallas; unless you interview at UTSW but just know its going to really suck.

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[rokshana]

hmmm...so let me guess...IMG applicant this year?

 

[Beacopp665]

The House M.D. quote under your username doesn't inspire me to take your words on complete faith

 

[McSap]

So, UTSW is currently at the top of your ROL.

 

[CMBSimmer]

Umm. Okay. I have no idea where this info on UTSW came from but it is completely false.

Granted we work hard, the hours are not "cush." But the probation thing and we kick residents out by the boatload comes from nowhere.

 

[jdh71]

Y u all gotta lie?

 

[Instatewaiter]

hmmm...so let me guess...IMG applicant this year?

An IMG who wants to end up in Texas...

 

[schpooner]

So I'm guessing OP is sitting on a couple waitlists right now?

 

[ChessMaster3000]

Word to the wise,

Just FYI, especially for you IMG applicants.

Texas IM residencies are notorious for being extremely malignant and I know several residents at different places who have been fired ( I don't know why but apparently the number is what would be concerning).

Obviously, the first program would be UTSW in Dallas. We all know that they had a pretty rough evaluation from the GME people a couple of years back and had several infractions which resulted in them being placed on probation and PD was ousted. Now, new PD has been there for a while now and seems things have settled down but they routinely kick IM residents out by the boatload. Now, UTSW is definitely a reputable place and cranks out great docs so if you do make it through, your going to be set. Be prepared for hell though.

Other Dallas programs like Methodist, Baylor and Presbyterian are pretty benign compared to UTSW and each are lower tier but again they are each pretty good but I heard through the Ebola grapevine that Presbyterian only has 4 Second year residents in their program and 11 interns because they apparently got rid of 3 in just one year. Presbyterian gets rid of about 1-2 residents a year so again if you're an IMG, be very careful about this place. Methodist I think fired one resident in the last 3 years but overall program is benign. Baylor; like UTSW; almost all US grads but still very competitive. I guess, if you're thinking about ranking a Dallas program number one, I would highly advise you to think again.

Houston definitely has it's fair share of problems; most notably between UT and Baylor; they had a falling out a couple of years ago but I think this has dramatically affected UT Houston>>>>>than Baylor Houston. I know that many UT IM residents are unhappy.

Anyways, just be careful who you rank because there are a lot of toxic program in the state of Texas and I would definitely stay away from Dallas; unless you interview at UTSW but just know its going to really suck.

wow, thanks troll for your unsolicited and exaggerated advice.

 

[dyeguy21]

Honestly, I interviewed at all the Houston places, and they certainly don't seem malignant. UT Houston and BCM seem to work residents hard with LBJ, Ben Taub, and the nations largest VA, but if that's your thing then it's a great place. They all get good fellowships and have decent pass rates (based on ABIM: ~75% for UT Houston and ~86% for Baylor) for such big programs. They have a relatively larger IMG/FMG base, but Houston is a large international city, these are big programs, and they sponsor visas so...shocker they fill some spots with IMGs/FMGs.

If you like them, rank them. This 1-message, supposedly "Fellow" troll is trying to dissuade some people from ranking these places, don't fall for it.

 

[drk]

This post has inspired me to rank UT Houston 1 and UTSW Austin 2 in order to further investigate the trappings of Texas IMG residency. I shall return with an investigational report in 3 years time (if I match there).

 

[nstemi]

you're an idiot. texas doesn't want your lazy ass.

ut houston and baylor have never had any affiliation. baylor and methodist did. you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

 

[greghouseMD2003]

So, UTSW is currently at the top of your ROL.

No, I am not interviewing anywhere. It honestly never even occurred to me that when I was writing this people would think I was trying to push my own agenda? I am just relaying information that I know about.

If people tell you UTSW is "cush" and easy... just speak to any of their medical students who work with the interns. I guarantee you they would give you a very clear understanding of how things work over there. Also, I did not focus on only UTSW. Like I said, Baylor is pretty rough and apparently Dallas Presbyterian has fired 2 interns this year alone and they only have 4 of 6 second year residents. Methodist also recently had a "leave of absence" from their IM program. So, there is plenty of malignancy to go around in the Dallas area.

So I'm guessing OP is sitting on a couple waitlists right now?

Again, not applying and not on any waiting list. However, since you mentioned a waiting list. Just to let everyone know if you are on a "waiting list" and you have not heard anything by early January; great chance they just forgot to send you a rejection letter... just saying.

wow, thanks troll for your unsolicited and exaggerated advice.

You're very welcome.

The House M.D. quote under your username doesn't inspire me to take your words on complete faith

That's actually a good point. Oh the irony...

This post has inspired me to rank UT Houston 1 and UTSW Austin 2 in order to further investigate the trappings of Texas IMG residency. I shall return with an investigational report in 3 years time (if I match there).

UT Houston 1 I agree with but UTSW Austin 2? You might wanna rethink that if you have other options in Texas.

you're an idiot. texas doesn't want your lazy ass.

ut houston and baylor have never had any affiliation. baylor and methodist did. you clearly have no idea what you're talking about.

Actually, you're right. It was methodist and Baylor; my bad. Either way, still stand by my previous statement that Baylor IM Houston >>>UT Houston >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Methodist Houston.
Remember, Baylor has Ben Taub on lockdown; in other words UT Houston and Methodist do not see patients there. LBJ is across town and is the "county hospital" for the UT folks but it doesn't have nearly the breadth that Ben Taub does.

Umm. Okay. I have no idea where this info on UTSW came from but it is completely false.

Granted we work hard, the hours are not "cush." But the probation thing and we kick residents out by the boatload comes from nowhere.

I wanted to save this for last. The information about UTSW is definitely NOT false. They were definitely on probation for multiple reasons. Here, read this article:

http://www.dallasnews.com/investiga...rt-says-life-threatening-problems-persist.ece

Also, if you go to any of the IM residency websites, a good way to tell whether a program is malignant is if they do not post the names of their residents and this is likely because they get rid of so many and they don't want applicants asking questions like "Well why are there only 10 PGY 3's, 9 PGY 2's and 12 interns?"

Happy trolling. Again, I have no agenda, just letting you guys know that Texas IM programs will drop you in a heartbeat.

 

[cher25]

No, I am not interviewing anywhere. It honestly never even occurred to me that when I was writing this people would think I was trying to push my own agenda? I am just relaying information that I know about.

If people tell you UTSW is "cush" and easy... just speak to any of their medical students who work with the interns. I guarantee you they would give you a very clear understanding of how things work over there. Also, I did not focus on only UTSW. Like I said, Baylor is pretty rough and apparently Dallas Presbyterian has fired 2 interns this year alone and they only have 4 of 6 second year residents. Methodist also recently had a "leave of absence" from their IM program. So, there is plenty of malignancy to go around in the Dallas area.



Again, not applying and not on any waiting list. However, since you mentioned a waiting list. Just to let everyone know if you are on a "waiting list" and you have not heard anything by early January; great chance they just forgot to send you a rejection letter... just saying.



You're very welcome.



That's actually a good point. Oh the irony...



UT Houston 1 I agree with but UTSW Austin 2? You might wanna rethink that if you have other options in Texas.



Actually, you're right. It was methodist and Baylor; my bad. Either way, still stand by my previous statement that Baylor IM Houston >>>UT Houston >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Methodist Houston.
Remember, Baylor has Ben Taub on lockdown; in other words UT Houston and Methodist do not see patients there. LBJ is across town and is the "county hospital" for the UT folks but it doesn't have nearly the breadth that Ben Taub does.



I wanted to save this for last. The information about UTSW is definitely NOT false. They were definitely on probation for multiple reasons. Here, read this article:

http://www.dallasnews.com/investiga...rt-says-life-threatening-problems-persist.ece

Also, if you go to any of the IM residency websites, a good way to tell whether a program is malignant is if they do not post the names of their residents and this is likely because they get rid of so many and they don't want applicants asking questions like "Well why are there only 10 PGY 3's, 9 PGY 2's and 12 interns?"

Happy trolling. Again, I have no agenda, just letting you guys know that Texas IM programs will drop you in a heartbeat.

Have you considered that the dismissed residents may have been bad residents? Or that the leave of absence may have been for personal reasons? It's a bit presumptuous to assume that a program is malignant just because they have to let a resident or two go from time to time.

 

[dyeguy21]

Actually, you're right. It was methodist and Baylor; my bad. Either way, still stand by my previous statement that Baylor IM Houston >>>UT Houston >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Methodist Houston.
Remember, Baylor has Ben Taub on lockdown; in other words UT Houston and Methodist do not see patients there. LBJ is across town and is the "county hospital" for the UT folks but it doesn't have nearly the breadth that Ben Taub does.

Troll is becoming bolder...Methodist in Houston is actually expanding to 17 spots/year, has a ~90% board pass rate, and matches to fellowships at Mayo, NIH, UCSF, and Yale while others go on to private/hospitalist. They have around 15% underserved/non-insured patients on service. They have all spots filled in all years: http://www.houstonmethodist.org/CurrentPost-GraduateResidents ......I think 23 "greater than's" is just a little bit of overkill.

UT Houston has an affiliation with MD Anderson. Their board pass rate is fine, as stated in my previous post, and send people to fellowships in Cardio at THI, GI at UPMC, Emory, Wake Forest, Duke, and MD Anderson. LBJ is slightly smaller than Ben Taub, but Ben Taub has a large number of rooms that have four patients to a room, they were once a ~1000 bed hospital and are now down to ~800 after they converted some floors to 2 patients/per, you will see more just because of the sheer numbers, but pathology remains practically equal since you won't spend your life treating zebras, Dr. House.

Also, UT and BCM spend equal amounts of time at the same VA.

Oh, all the schools in Houston name their residents: Methodist is above, UT Houston: https://med.uth.edu/internalmedicine/education/residency/roster/ , Baylor: https://www.bcm.edu/departments/medicine/education/internal-medicine/residents

So please just stop trying to convince people that are impressionable and don't have the time to investigate with your "insider information". All three programs are fine, personal preference is what you should consider in ranking them.

 

[obiwan]

If people tell you UTSW is "cush" and easy... just speak to any of their medical students who work with the interns. I guarantee you they would give you a very clear understanding of how things work over there. Also, I did not focus on only UTSW. Like I said, Baylor is pretty rough and apparently Dallas Presbyterian has fired 2 interns this year alone and they only have 4 of 6 second year residents. Methodist also recently had a "leave of absence" from their IM program. So, there is plenty of malignancy to go around in the Dallas area.

http://www.dallasnews.com/investiga...rt-says-life-threatening-problems-persist.ece

I don't think anyone in the history of internal medicine has ever considered UTSW a cush residency .... and all the issues that the newspaper article from 2012 references never was an issue having to do with the IM program

 

[greghouseMD2003]

Troll is becoming bolder...Methodist in Houston is actually expanding to 17 spots/year, has a ~90% board pass rate, and matches to fellowships at Mayo, NIH, UCSF, and Yale while others go on to private/hospitalist. They have around 15% underserved/non-insured patients on service. They have all spots filled in all years: http://www.houstonmethodist.org/CurrentPost-GraduateResidents ......I think 23 "greater than's" is just a little bit of overkill.

UT Houston has an affiliation with MD Anderson. Their board pass rate is fine, as stated in my previous post, and send people to fellowships in Cardio at THI, GI at UPMC, Emory, Wake Forest, Duke, and MD Anderson. LBJ is slightly smaller than Ben Taub, but Ben Taub has a large number of rooms that have four patients to a room, they were once a ~1000 bed hospital and are now down to ~800 after they converted some floors to 2 patients/per, you will see more just because of the sheer numbers, but pathology remains practically equal since you won't spend your life treating zebras, Dr. House.

Also, UT and BCM spend equal amounts of time at the same VA.

Oh, all the schools in Houston name their residents: Methodist is above, UT Houston: https://med.uth.edu/internalmedicine/education/residency/roster/ , Baylor: https://www.bcm.edu/departments/medicine/education/internal-medicine/residents

So please just stop trying to convince people that are impressionable and don't have the time to investigate with your "insider information". All three programs are fine, personal preference is what you should consider in ranking them.

Hey squidbillies, don't get all butthurt about hearing things you don't like; internship will be rough enough and if some troll like me gets you all "worked up." Just go with the flow and please stop watching cartoon network.

 

[dyeguy21]

Hey squidbillies, don't get all butthurt about hearing things you don't like; internship will be rough enough and if some troll like me gets you all "worked up." Just go with the flow and please stop watching cartoon network.

Evidence =/= butthurt. Don't get all defensive and personally attack me because I called you out on your self-serving lies. You ain't wild...you mild.

 

[ChessMaster3000]

Also, if you go to any of the IM residency websites, a good way to tell whether a program is malignant is if they do not post the names of their residents and this is likely because they get rid of so many and they don't want applicants asking questions like "Well why are there only 10 PGY 3's, 9 PGY 2's and 12 interns?"

Happy trolling. Again, I have no agenda, just letting you guys know that Texas IM programs will drop you in a heartbeat.

Umm, because there are usually a couple of interns who are prelims so the numbers are smaller.
And umm, no accredited program drops residents "in a heartbeat" unless you violate HIPAA or do something of a similar magnitude.
I usually dont respond to troll posts, but I would just hate if someone seriously considering a texas program (not me) would actually be intimidated by your lies.

 

[Instatewaiter]

, you're right. It was methodist and Baylor; my bad. Either way, still stand by my previous statement that Baylor IM Houston >>>UT Houston >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Methodist Houston.
Remember, Baylor has Ben Taub on lockdown; in other words UT Houston and Methodist do not see patients there. LBJ is across town and is the "county hospital" for the UT folks but it doesn't have nearly the breadth that Ben Taub does.
.

The number of ">'s" in a post is directly proportional to how stupid I think someone is.

 

[Instatewaiter]

If people tell you UTSW is "cush" and easy... just speak to any of their medical students who work with the interns. I guarantee you they would give you a very clear understanding of how things work over there. Also, I did not focus on only UTSW. Like I said, Baylor is pretty rough and apparently Dallas Presbyterian has fired 2 interns this year alone and they only have 4 of 6 second year residents. Methodist also recently had a "leave of absence" from their IM program. So, there is plenty of malignancy to go around in the Dallas area.

No one has ever said that UTSW is cush.

If you're a little bitch don't go to UTSW.

 

[DTUD]

UTSW doesn't have a reputation for being cush. It USED to have a reputation for being malignant, but several people that have interviewed there recently have said they don't get this impression anymore.

Also, to be clear, there's a big different between being a difficult residency (ie non-cush: high patient volume, large workload, and hours that kiss the limit consistently) and being "malignant".

Malignant means a lot of different things to different people. To me though, I think it implies residents flying by the seat of their pants and then being lambasted by attendings or senior residents. Residents should ABSOLUTELY be corrected, but malignant implies it's done in an overly harsh way that borders on disrespectful, as opposed to being critical (which it should be) but in a respectful supportive manner. Malignant also implies that this attitude of hierarchical disrespect starts high-up in the program leadership and permeates down into the resident culture among themselves (even between other specialties, which in IM you interact with regularly) as opposed to being an environment of camaraderie, support and recognition that you're all in it together among the housestaff.

Being non-malignant doesn't automatically make a program cush, and vice-versa. Also keep in mind, that how malignant is "malignant" also varies heavily among specialties. We here in IM are probably more on the touchy feely end of the spectrum. We're no peds, but we're also a far cry from Gen Surg or worse Plastics.

Point is, several people that have interviewed at UTSW recently have said that although it remains a difficult residency with high volume and workload, they have also said that it's malignant reputation appears to be a thing of the past.

 

[krps85]

This thread is probably more malignant than UTSW.

 

[greghouseMD2003]

This thread is probably more malignant than UTSW.

That may be but I do think this brought about a lot of interesting discussion from multiple people with many different perspectives; which I think will help those seeking IM residency and allow them to make wise decisions. I remember when I went through the match I had very little to go on other than the program websites and many outdated threads.

Also, I definitely get the sense that many people are upset by what I have said and I wanted to apologize if my comments were false or if anyone felt I was deliberately knocking down or singling out any particular program. I can assure you that was not my intention. My original intention was to give an heads up, albeit "unsolicited" to those IMG medical students set on Internal Medicine in Texas. Regardless where you match in Texas, it will be very clear that Texas is not an IMG friendly place; far from it. If you do happen to get a Texas IM residency and are an IMG with excellent grades and board scores, just make sure that you need to work twice as hard as your peers and make sure you stay below the radar. Especially if you are here with a VISA because if you leave the program, you have 3 months to return to your country if you are not a US citizen.

I have seen this occur many times over, again not Texas exclusively, but a majority of states mostly in the southern US who do not, in my opinion, invest as much interest in their IMG's and will usually give those with great scores more of a "trial run." Again, this is my observation. So, to reiterate my primary point, if you are an IMG and want IM in Texas, make sure you understand you will need to shine and go above and beyond to gain the respect from your attendings.

 

[kkuhn]

MS3 at UTSW here to say: the IM residents seem to treat each other well. The great thing about being a med student is that you are ~invisible and can observe what the residents do... and it's pretty positive IMHO. The upper levels help the interns out. Residents hang out with each other outside of work. Not everything about the program is perfect, but I definitely wouldn't say it's malignant.

 

[ArkansasHogMD]

Troll is becoming bolder...Methodist in Houston is actually expanding to 17 spots/year, has a ~90% board pass rate, and matches to fellowships at Mayo, NIH, UCSF, and Yale while others go on to private/hospitalist. They have around 15% underserved/non-insured patients on service. They have all spots filled in all years: http://www.houstonmethodist.org/CurrentPost-GraduateResidents ......I think 23 "greater than's" is just a little bit of overkill.

UT Houston has an affiliation with MD Anderson. Their board pass rate is fine, as stated in my previous post, and send people to fellowships in Cardio at THI, GI at UPMC, Emory, Wake Forest, Duke, and MD Anderson. LBJ is slightly smaller than Ben Taub, but Ben Taub has a large number of rooms that have four patients to a room, they were once a ~1000 bed hospital and are now down to ~800 after they converted some floors to 2 patients/per, you will see more just because of the sheer numbers, but pathology remains practically equal since you won't spend your life treating zebras, Dr. House.

Also, UT and BCM spend equal amounts of time at the same VA.

Oh, all the schools in Houston name their residents: Methodist is above, UT Houston: https://med.uth.edu/internalmedicine/education/residency/roster/ , Baylor: https://www.bcm.edu/departments/medicine/education/internal-medicine/residents

So please just stop trying to convince people that are impressionable and don't have the time to investigate with your "insider information". All three programs are fine, personal preference is what you should consider in ranking them.

Just to correct you on one thing, BCM and UT Houston do NOT spend equal time of the VA. Until this year Baylor residents were the only residents working there. UTH has one inpatient ward team with one upper level and 2 interns. The other 9 ward teams are Baylor teams. They only spend one month at the VA while Baylor spends ~5-6 months per year (I've actually been there 7 months straight). Baylor will start rotating at MD Anderson next year though.

 

[NoobsMS4]

do UT Houston and Baylor spend equal amount of time at MD Anderson?

 

[SlowCodeToChina]

UT Houston actually gets to rotate on the cancer-related services. BCM residents can do research and network with faculty, etc; but only rotate on the cancer hospitalist service.

 

[W19]

What a thread! After certifying your ROL with some TX programs being high on your list, then you read that thread

Residents would tell you that you work hard in some of the programs OP listed, but they are not malignant by any means...

 

[drfunktacular]

I feel compelled to note that I was a Baylor IM resident from 2009-2012 and although I’m glad those years are behind me (now I’m home at 5:30 every day and no weekends ) I really couldn’t imagine training anywhere else.

Did we work hard? Absolutely. But there were very few times when I felt like I was doing scut work with no learning benefit, and there was never a single time in 3 years when I didn’t feel like I had multiple people in the program leadership whom I could approach if I was struggling or had concerns.

 

[jhamaican]

UT Houston actually gets to rotate on the cancer-related services. BCM residents can do research and network with faculty, etc; but only rotate on the cancer hospitalist service.

as a current BCM resident who has spent many months at MD Anderson, this is 100% wrong.

Baylor has largely supplanted UT Houston at MD Anderson on a resident level.

Many of the MD Anderson higher ups were previous Baylor graduates. This combined with the well recognized weakness of the UT Houston IM residents compared to Baylor residents has resulted in Baylor taking over most of the MD Anderson rotations at the resident level.

Fellows, other than the MD Anderson in house fellowships, are still all UT Houston though.

As a result, Baylor now has 4 hospitals for their residents: St. Lukes (huge private/academic hospital), MD Anderson (#1 cancer center nation), Ben Taub (level 1 trauma center, a smaller more intimate parkland) and the VA (tertiary referral VA for the entire SE? district). Tell me what other program in the nation has such variety of pathology. Baylor is definitely on the rise and was one of the best choices I ever made with regard to my medical education.

 

[ilovecorgis]

UT Houston actually gets to rotate on the cancer-related services. BCM residents can do research and network with faculty, etc; but only rotate on the cancer hospitalist service.

This was also my sense form interview day this year; as a BCM resident you mostly rotate on the hospitalist service at MD Anderson. You can do electives in other selected wards/clinics at MDA, but it sounded like the solid tumor service was not an option for BCM residents. A bit of a bummer from my perspective since I have interest in heme/onc, but won't be relevant for everyone.

 

[timestandstill]

Neither residents from UT Houston nor Baylor rotate in Cancer Medicine at MD Anderson. UT Houston IM residents have an opportunity to rotate on the Benign Hematology service at MDA. Baylor IM residents have a chance to rotate on the ward team, inpatient sub-specialty consults, outpatient sub-specialty consults (including Benign Heme), palliative care, cancer prevention clinic, and suspicion of cancer clinic. BTW, the traditional track and Baylor/MD Anderson track residents graduate with the exact same diploma. MDA track residents get a little more focused exposure to onco-medicine, but still spend the majority of their time at the other hospitals. Residents that graduated from the MDA track last year went into Cardiology, Pulm-CC, Hospitalist medicine, Heme-Onc, and one is a current CMR for Baylor. There are quite a few residents doing research at MDA both in Cancer Medicine and Internal Medicine. If you are considering Baylor, you should apply to both tracks to maximize your chances.

 

[jhamaican]

The very fact UTSW feels the need to repeatedly say they are not malignant on interview day speaks for itself...

 

[Beacopp665]

The very fact UTSW feels the need to repeatedly say they are not malignant on interview day speaks for itself...

It’s very easy to get a bad reputation, much tougher to dispel it. Is it a busy residency? Yes. Malignant? No. Sometimes people conflate the two

 

[IMreshopeful]

The very fact UTSW feels the need to repeatedly say they are not malignant on interview day speaks for itself...

UTSW actually from what I’ve heard is no longer as malignant as it used to have a reputation for being. It’s a very busy training program with sick patients, but that’s what you want in residency. Speaking to recent residency grads from there, it’s actually quite mellowed out from what it used to be