Becoming a doctor for the money

[premed2402]

According to the Occupational Outlook Handbook (http://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm), pretty much all of the highest paying careers are in medicine. People say "don't become a doctor for the money," but the data shows that, if I want to get rich, becoming a doctor gives me the highest probability of doing so. How can people say becoming a doctor is a terrible way to make money when all the data says otherwise?

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[terra330]

Off the top of my head:
There is a huge amount of debt to deal with
You don't start earning real money until you're in your 30s
The more lucrative fields tend to have huge malpractice premiums
If you're talented enough to become a doctor, you're probably talented enough to be at the upper end of other fields - your earning potential isn't necessarily defined by what the median worker earns in other fields.

But most importantly, if you don't enjoy the work, it can be a miserable job.

 

[lalex]

I mean people treat people on SDN like a devil for wanting to do it for the money/status.

So if a very smart person wants to become a doctor for the money, who cares? They'll end up miserable but I'm sure their patients will be in good hands.

 

[takeurmeds02]

I feel like there's way too much bs that you have to put up with in medicine for it to only be a job to make money. I mean people obviously do it but I couldn't imagine...

 

[Lost in Translation]

Money is certainly a factor in my choice. However, you can pay me as much as a resident makes for the rest of my life and I'd be happy so long as I was able to treat patients and pay off my debts. It's fine if money gets you interested in the field, but you should explore the field to see if anything else interests you more. If not, then maybe choose something else.

 

[clippers50fan]

Money is certainly a factor in my choice. However, you can pay me as much as a resident makes for the rest of my life and I'd be happy so long as I was able to treat patients and pay off my debts. It's fine if money gets you interested in the field, but you should explore the field to see if anything else interests you more. If not, then maybe choose something else.

You would work for basically minimum wage for the rest of your life?

 

[7331poas]

Like I have said before. Medicine guarantees you 6 figure salaries and a job. That cant be said about other fields other than software development.

People tend to say if you could get into med school you could succeed anywhere, I dont really buy that at all. To get into med school you need a decent GPA and MCAT, some research engagement, and some volunteering, . This is very different than what it takes to be highly successful in CS which is actual tangible success in creating functional mods or software.

A lot of premed is doing BS "stuff". Engineering success is creating things that actually work.

I think medicine is a very ideal profession in that everything is streamlined, if you do this ---> then you get the salary you want.

 

[Lost in Translation]

You would work for basically minimum wage for the rest of your life?

In my area residents make ~$60k/y. Is it different for CA? That's not really minimum wage.

 

[Mr.Zero]

So if a very smart person wants to become a doctor for the money, who cares? They'll end up miserable but I'm sure their patients will be in good status.

I would worry about the doctor ordering unnecessary tests or procedures just to line their own pockets. Also, cutting corners could make the doctor more money at the expense of patient safety (if interested in an example, read A Never Event, it's about a hep C outbreak)

 

[Gibbward]

I've always thought average salaries were closer to ~45k/yr and considering residents work crazy hours, $/hr gets pretty close to minimum wage.

In my area residents make ~$60k/y. Is it different for CA? That's not really minimum wage.

 

[Planes2Doc]

Your reasons for pursuing medicine are only between you and any higher power you might believe in. As long as you provide the best possible care for patients, your motivations, your net worth, what you do in your free time, and other such things are entirely irrelevant.

 

[mvenus929]

I mean people treat people on SDN like a devil for wanting to do it for the money/status.

So if a very smart person wants to become a doctor for the money, who cares? They'll end up miserable but I'm sure their patients will be in good status.

Having worked with people in residency who very clearly don't want to stay in medicine but feel that they are now trapped because of the debt, I beg you to not enter medicine unless you are actually interested in the day-to-day workings of it. Otherwise, you will very likely make yourself and everyone around you miserable.

 

[getdown]

According to the Occupational Outlook Handbook (http://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm), pretty much all of the highest paying careers are in medicine. People say "don't become a doctor for the money," but the data shows that, if I want to get rich, becoming a doctor gives me the highest probability of doing so. How can people say becoming a doctor is a terrible way to make money when all the data says otherwise?

Because there are easier ways to earn a 6 figure salary then going through 4 years undergrad, 4 years medical school and many years of residency getting your ass beat down every day. You can make a good living on medicine but you can never be wealthy in medicine. Those times were being a doctor means you have your own business is gone thanks to insurance companies and the ACA. Doctors are now more and more becoming employees to hospitals. And guess who's running those hospitals? Yep, those jerkoff fratboy bros who were business majors in college. You want to make real money? Go into the business aspects of medicine.

 

[premed2402]

My parents are both lawyers and live in an affluent neighborhood. I've talked to a lot of our neighbors and the majority of them seem to either be doctors or lawyers. The Occupational Outlook Handbook data supports this observation. I have yet to meet a software developer or former business major that lives in our neighborhood.

 

[Lost in Translation]

N=1

Something something scoop a cup of seawater something something whales don't exist.

 

[terra330]

My parents are both lawyers and live in an affluent neighborhood. I've talked to a lot of our neighbors and the majority of them seem to either be doctors or lawyers. The Occupational Outlook Handbook data supports this observation. I have yet to meet a software developer or former business major that lives in our neighborhood.

Would I be correct in assuming that most of the people in your neighborhood are 50+?

 

[7331poas]

Because there are easier ways to earn a 6 figure salary then going through 4 years undergrad, 4 years medical school and many years of residency getting your ass beat down every day.

If you make it into med school there is a 100% chance of getting a 6 figure salary. No other profession guarantees that other than software development.

You are crazy if you think doctors arent well off. In my small rural town people live in poverty. The one doc in the town sends his kid to a private school 20mi away in order to escape the poor living conditions.

You make statements but I have seen what class of society doctors sit in, and its well above the current day American middle class.

 

[premed2402]

I would say most are 40+, but that shouldn't matter. The point I'm making is that this is one of the best neighborhoods in my city and nearly everyone in it seems to be either a doctor or lawyer, but mostly doctors.

 

[Lost in Translation]

If you make it into med school there is a 100% chance of getting a 6 figure salary. No other profession guarantees that other than software development.

You are crazy if you think doctors arent well off. In my small rural town people live in poverty. The one doc in the town sends his kid to a private school 20mi away in order to escape the poor living conditions.

You make statements but I have seen what class of society doctors sit in, and its well above the current day American middle class.

I don't think anyone is saying MDs don't live comfortably. They're saying that there's other professions where you have time to enjoy your money.

 

[IsWhat]

I don't think it's necessarily wrong to want to become a physician for the money. Beware though - there is a reason most docs tell everyone not to do this for the money. Sure, there are plenty of people who hate their jobs and stay for the money, but spend one day in a hospital and you will see it's a special kind of misery for people who don't like their jobs in a patient care profession.

 

[Giovanotto]

In my area residents make ~$60k/y. Is it different for CA? That's not really minimum wage.

While your loans are accruing interest you're right, it's not really minimum wage, it's worse.

 

[Citygirl44]

My parents are both lawyers and live in an affluent neighborhood. I've talked to a lot of our neighbors and the majority of them seem to either be doctors or lawyers. The Occupational Outlook Handbook data supports this observation. I have yet to meet a software developer or former business major that lives in our neighborhood.

+1. My parents aren't lawyers but I agree with what you're saying.

 

[MarioKart]

I would think that it might be difficult to power through all of those difficult courses and study nonstop for the next decade just for the money. Sure, it's a great reward at the end, but I've always believed that you need something else to keep you going, even if it's just a simple interest in the material. Id imagine that the path to becoming a doctor would be terrible if you had absolutely NO interest in science. This is just my 2 cents though!!!!!!

 

[clippers50fan]

In my area residents make ~$60k/y. Is it different for CA? That's not really minimum wage.

Loans + hours + ****ty pay = essentially or worse than minimum wage. Especially seeing your peers making 100k+ out of college, you best believe I can't wait to be making real money.

 

[Demosthenes1]

Where does this idea that Software Development = six-figure salaries come from?
Unless you're building wildly popular apps, or are working for a top tech company, you're probably making 85k a year tops.

 

[terra330]

If you make it into med school there is a 100% chance of getting a 6 figure salary. No other profession guarantees that other than software development.

True, but distribution of income is relatively narrow. Few physicians are going to be making 7 figures compared to the highest earners in other fields. If your goal is to become filthy rich rather than "very comfortable", then there are other, higher risk, routes to take.

 

[Citygirl44]

$200,000- 300,000 seems pretty good to me. If I could make that amount, while doing something that I love , that's a " win - win" for me. I don't think that's being greedy after all of this " schooling". I think it's reasonable ( within 15 years hopefully). The doctors that I speak to like what they do, they just tell me to make sure I pick a speciality that I love, don't pick a specialty based on money. And many of them do " work for a hospital". But making this kind of money, working in a hospital, being a pediatrician, working pretty much 9-7 and being on call rotating weekends sounds good to me. It's just the journey to get to that comfortable point is pretty terrible. But once you're there , you're there.

 

[Citygirl44]

When I say journey is terrible, I mean the hours that residents / doctors young in their career have to work , not medical school.

 

[Doudline]

The ones advocating choosing a career based on the financial incentives, especially in such a demanding career as medicine, are fools

It might not affect your competence as a professional, but it will certainly make you miserable.

 

[Krupke]

My parents are both lawyers and live in an affluent neighborhood. I've talked to a lot of our neighbors and the majority of them seem to either be doctors or lawyers. The Occupational Outlook Handbook data supports this observation. I have yet to meet a software developer or former business major that lives in our neighborhood.

But that's a very skewed sample. The NY metro area (Manhattan, Long Island, and areas of NJ, CT, and PA) have the richest counties in the US. Those wealthy people are mostly business and finance people. The wealthiest people in and around most cities are business people or administrators. If you don't live near industry, then chances are the wealthiest people in your area would be hospital/school administrators, lawyers, and doctors.

The time, financial, and personal sacrifices required to become a doctor aren't worth it if you are only in it for the money.

 

[7331poas]

True, but distribution of income is relatively narrow. Few physicians are going to be making 7 figures compared to the highest earners in other fields. If your goal is to become filthy rich rather than "very comfortable", then there are other, higher risk, routes to take.

Thats not because of changes in billing over time though. Thats just the nature that business is what makes money and doctors arent businessmen (or app developers).

That being said doctors have been known to make medical devices and make 7 figures.

Keep in mind, we are all complaining when our peers the PhDs undergo similar lengths of training and make a fraction that doctors make. (despite arguably being more knowledgeable in their fields.)

 

[terra330]

Thats not because of changes in billing over time though. Thats just the nature that business is what makes money and doctors arent businessmen (or app developers).

That being said doctors have been known to make medical devices and make 7 figures.

Keep in mind, we are all complaining when our peers the PhDs undergo similar lengths of training and make a fraction that doctors make. (despite arguably being more knowledgeable in their fields.)

I didn't say it's because of changes in billing. Nor did I say that doctors never make 7 figures (I actually know of one personally). Just that it's not as common. I'd be surprised if there were more 7 figure earning physicians than investment bankers for example.

I know doctors as a cohort do pretty well - that's what the statistics show. But if your goal is to have a lot of money and influence, there are better options.

 

[Pinkertinkle]

I would say that not every doctor could succeed in other fields. Some people have a talent for biology and being a doctor may be the best way for those people to make money.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

Oy vey. I see the annual SDN reset button has been hit once again.

Here we go...

When people tell you not to go into medicine for the money...They are not saying that you won't make money.

You will make money. That's obvious. You can look at any salary survey or data source out there.

What they are telling you is that, if money is your primary motivation, you will not be happy in this field.

The reason for this is that, if money is the driving force, you have to put in a ton (both absolute and relative to other fields), to get that money. People have already hit on many of the things you have to do and/or sacrifice, but here's a few of the highlights:

1. Delayed gratification: You will make good money. But you won't do it until you are in your mid-30's to 40's depending on field and debt.
2. Time investment: You will make good money. But it will take you a 10 year investment and a tremendous hours investment (expect to spend 3-5 years of that working 70+ hours per week)
3. Emotional investment: It's a hard job. Seeing and working with sick people day-in/out is not for everyone. It drains you. There are tons of surveys on emotional burn out and physician depression.
4. High floor/low ceiling: Medicine does (nearly) guarantee you a good future and a secure income. But it also is a field that has a decreasing entrepreneurial aspect. In all likelihood you will make around the average. Relative to other fields, more work is not always rewarded with more pay.

 

[getdown]

If you make it into med school there is a 100% chance of getting a 6 figure salary. No other profession guarantees that other than software development.

You are crazy if you think doctors arent well off. In my small rural town people live in poverty. The one doc in the town sends his kid to a private school 20mi away in order to escape the poor living conditions.

You make statements but I have seen what class of society doctors sit in, and its well above the current day American middle class.

Did you even bother reading the rest of what I wrote or did you just read the first sentence and responded? I never said you cant live comfortably as a doctor. But OP wanted to know about becoming rich which is different from just living comfortably. You can't get rich in medicine anymore unless you're a bigtime surgeon or own some sort of patent/surgical center. I'm not trying to burst your bubble here, I'm just speaking of reality since I'm in the thick of things right now.

Also, in your example you live in a rural town with poverty so a doctor making 150-200k obviously will have more bang in your buck. But if that same person were to work in a large city like LA or Orange County that same 150-200k doesn't go as far as living expenses are much higher.

 

[Goro]

Go look up what the wise Law2doc has written about this subject. I wish his words could be stickied.

Ditto those of SouthernSurgeon above.

According to the Occupational Outlook Handbook (http://www.bls.gov/ooh/highest-paying.htm), pretty much all of the highest paying careers are in medicine. People say "don't become a doctor for the money," but the data shows that, if I want to get rich, becoming a doctor gives me the highest probability of doing so. How can people say becoming a doctor is a terrible way to make money when all the data says otherwise?

 

[Pagan FutureDoc]

Giovanotto

While your loans are accruing interest you're right, it's not really minimum wage, it's worse

I'd a lot rather be making 60k with 200k in loans than live off of 15-17k a year again

 

[7331poas]

You can't get rich in medicine anymore unless you're a bigtime surgeon or own some sort of patent/surgical center.

As you shouldnt...

getting to be a doctor is fairly straight forward. go to med school. Do well on x exams. finish y residency based on x exam score. Earn z salary based on y residency.

There is no good reasons why such a streamlined process should net a person so much money when there are other fields with similar lengths of training with much more complex obstacles to overcome which make FRACTIONS what doctors make. (such as basic science PhDs for instance)

Doctors have the earning potentials that they deserve

 

[Krupke]

Keep in mind,

As you shouldnt...

getting to be a doctor is fairly straight forward. go to med school. Do well on x exams. finish y residency based on x exam score. Earn z salary based on y residency.

There is no good reasons why such a streamlined process should net a person so much money when there are other fields with similar lengths of training with much more complex obstacles to overcome which make FRACTIONS what doctors make. (such as basic science PhDs for instance)

Doctors have the earning potentials that they deserve

......doctors prevent people from dying

Doctors didnt start making the salary they do to reward their hard work. They provide a service that other people can't and for which people are willing to pay


Also you totally don't understand the process of becoming a doctor. Some of the hardest working and smartest students go to med school. You can work as hard as you can and still not be above average in med school and not be able to match in your desired field, not be able to match in the location you want, not be able to have a family, etc. It's not a simple as you imagine it to be

 

[7331poas]

......doctors prevent people from dying

Doctors didnt start making the salary they do to reward their hard work. They provide a service that other people can't and for which people are willing to pay

Because they are legally the only people allowed too.

I dont think that necessarily determines earning potential. Does a surgeon who preforms a lifesaving surgery deserve more money for his work than the person who founded instagram, an app which essentially does nothing but allow people to share pictures? Does it deserve more money that Einstein after his theories of relativity?

 

[raiderette]

As a kid that lives in a family that has nevet made more than $42,000 money comes into play. But job security is much more important to me. I don't need to be wealthy I just want to reach comfortable.

 

[Psai]

Because they are legally the only people allowed too.

I dont think that necessarily determines earning potential. Does a surgeon who preforms a lifesaving surgery deserve more money for his work than the person who founded instagram, an app which essentially does nothing but allow people to share pictures? Does it deserve more money that Einstein after his theories of relativity?

...

 

[MasterStroke]

Stability and comfortable lifestyle is a good reason to become a doctor. You'll be semi-rich.

But if you just want to be able to afford fancy cars and live an easy life, it's not the right field, simply because of how hard you would have to work. If you are working 80 hours a week the last thing you will care about is how you will be spending your money. You will only care about being able to find time to sleep.

 

[getdown]

As you shouldnt...

getting to be a doctor is fairly straight forward. go to med school. Do well on x exams. finish y residency based on x exam score. Earn z salary based on y residency.

There is no good reasons why such a streamlined process should net a person so much money when there are other fields with similar lengths of training with much more complex obstacles to overcome which make FRACTIONS what doctors make. (such as basic science PhDs for instance)

Doctors have the earning potentials that they deserve

You have no idea what you're talk about.

 

[7331poas]

You have no idea what you're talk about.

Part of the reasons why revolutionary businessmen made large amounts is due to their ingenuity. (ie. Bill Gates and his hard buy on the microprocessor and DOS, Steve Jobs on the iPhone etc) Being a doctor doesnt take ingenuity or creativity. You basically have what you need to do to reach the end point laid out for you.

 

[Gandyy]

As you shouldnt...

getting to be a doctor is fairly straight forward. go to med school. Do well on x exams. finish y residency based on x exam score. Earn z salary based on y residency.

There is no good reasons why such a streamlined process should net a person so much money when there are other fields with similar lengths of training with much more complex obstacles to overcome which make FRACTIONS what doctors make. (such as basic science PhDs for instance)

Doctors have the earning potentials that they deserve

Name 1 Profession that is as selective/competitive, has the same breadth and rigor of training, and asks MORE of you once you are done with said training.

 

[7331poas]

Name 1 Profession that is as selective/competitive, has the same breadth and rigor of training, and asks MORE of you once you are done with said training.

-selective

40% of applicants each year matriculate into a medical school. From there they get divided into specialties but they are all doctors.

-as for working hard

Plenty of big law lawyers work harder than residents for similar pays, spending their time doing scut work for years. Many of them work much as much as 110-120 hrs a week doing things that would not be considered worthy of a lawyer. The difference is that SOME of them become partners and get nice offices and 6 figure salaries that a doctor would have.

Silicon valley engineers work just as hard during the early phases of the company and sometimes, sometimes they get the big payout that an attending physician might make (I have personal experience with this when I got to work with a company in the valley for a short period of time.)

Wall Street financial investors work very hard in a cut-throat profession and most of them do not make it (much lower percentage than 40%)

The difference between all of these is that some of these people get to the top of the social ladder in this country; doctors graduating residency are all at least in the top 5% of earners. All of them have guaranteed employment in the US.

 

[Dr Tony T. Chopper]

I personally think the job security and streamlined training to job placement path should be more attractive than how much you make.

Are your goals to drive fast cars and own a mansion with playboy bunnies or something? Its such a blessing to be able to enjoy comfortable living with a family you love.

 

[Gandyy]

-selective

40% of applicants each year matriculate into a medical school. From there they get divided into specialties but they are all doctors.

-as for working hard

Plenty of big law lawyers work harder than residents for similar pays. The difference is that SOME of them become partners and get nice offices and 6 figure salaries that a doctor would have.

Silicon valley engineers work just as hard during the early phases of the company and sometimes, sometimes they get the big payout that an attending physician might make (I have personal experience with this when I got to work with a company in the valley for a short period of time.)

Wall Street financial investors work very hard in a cut-throat profession and most of them do not make it (much lower percentage than 40%)

The difference between all of these is that some of these people get to the top of the social ladder in this country, doctors graduating residency are all at least in the top 5% of earners. All of them have guaranteed employment in the US.

You are literally using separate professions to illustrate one aspect of medicine. I'm saying come up with a profession that has ALL of those aspects.

The 40 percent does not do the full situation justice. It is out of an extremely competitive pool that 41 percent of medical school applicants are selected for a seat. That pool of applicants is full of qualified applicants. Many qualified applicants do not get in every year.

Also you dodged the "breadth and rigor of training" aspect with a "working hard" aspect.

I think we both know that those are not the exact same thing.

 

[terra330]

40% of applicants each year matriculate into a medical school. From there they get divided into specialties but they are all doctors.

That is largely a self selected sample.