Becoming a MD/Ph.D. student - from the perspective of a High School Student

[DrHolmes]

Hello,

I know there are many threads on this topic, but I wanted to create a new one geared towards High School students who may be interested in the MD/Ph.D. track.

I am currently a High School Senior and I always wanted to become a research physician since the time I heard that occupation existed. That being said, I am strongly aware of the fierce competition ahead of me, but I want to be prepared as possible so that I will not make any avoidable mistakes. Since I did not start off High School as well as I could/should have, I refuse to make the dumb mistakes in undergrad as well. So, is there any advice that you can give me (and other who read this thread) that help during the next four years in terms of academics and extra - curricular activities?

What do MD/Ph.D. programs look for an applicant (besides research exp)?
Is double majoring worth it? Does it make for a stronger candidate?
Is it a good idea to think about a co-op during sophomore year?
What classes, that are a part of pre-med requirements, should I be careful of that are known for their difficulty (e.g. Orgo chem)
What extracurriculars have you done that made you stand a part ? or any that I may try?
Does the summer leading into freshman year of undergrad count for med school resumes? I'm interning in a wet lab over this summer.
Does A.P. credit really help? Should they be used for classes that are in your major, or is it better to re-take that class to get an easy A?
Does it really matter which institution I go for my Undergrad? Would my chances be hurt if I went to a state school with an excellent biology program?

Of course, any other information is GREATLY appreciated


I apologize for making this an extremely open ended question. I'm just trying to get as much information as I can. After all, knowledge is power.

Thank - you for your help
Best regards

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[whistleberries]

Hi! I discovered that the MD/PhD route existed when I was in high school too, and have just been admitted this cycle. Since I had no one to turn to for advice when I was just starting it out, here's to paying it forward!

What do MD/Ph.D. programs look for an applicant (besides research exp)?
- An honest assessment of what the career looks like, and why getting both degrees is going to help you get the career you want. Enough research experience to truly understand what you're signing up for.

Is double majoring worth it? Does it make for a stronger candidate?
- Only if you are just as successful as you would have been if you put all your time into one major. The common advice I see is major doesn't matter at all, but I'll provide myself as an anecdote to argue the opposite. I will be graduating with two degrees, and my GPA is very strong. A part of my argument for why I want this career actually ties into both of my majors, and the fact that I was academically successful through self-imposed rigor lends confidence to my potential success as a med student.

Is it a good idea to think about a co-op during sophomore year?
- It probably would be a great experience! I know one person who has taken two during undergrad and will be applying MSTP after a gap year. He's taking an extra semester to graduate, but if you finish on time, even better,

What classes, that are a part of pre-med requirements, should I be careful of that are known for their difficulty (e.g. Orgo chem)
- I think this is very school dependent. At my school Gen Chem II and Orgo II are brutal, and the physics series is an absolute joke.

What extracurriculars have you done that made you stand a part ? or any that I may try?
- I have a hobby that I've been doing since I was a child that I continued in some ways at school, and it's super important to me, so it came up a few times. If there's something you love doing, do that thing! It's also always good to have some form of teaching/mentoring experience. Research is sooo heavy in communication skills.

Does the summer leading into freshman year of undergrad count for med school resumes? I'm interning in a wet lab over this summer.
- Yes if you continue it in college.

Does A.P. credit really help? Should they be used for classes that are in your major, or is it better to re-take that class to get an easy A?
- It helped immensely at my school. We were able to register for classes earlier the more credits you had, so the first two years when all the science majors are battling for the good professors/sections I was always able to get the exact schedule I wanted.

Does it really matter which institution I go for my Undergrad? Would my chances be hurt if I went to a state school with an excellent biology program?
- Go to the school that has the major you want, R1 research standing, and will cost you the least money. I am a very proud state school kid and I don't think it's held me back. Just take advantage of all the resources and opportunites available to you.

 

[Maebea]

What do MD/Ph.D. programs look for an applicant (besides research exp)? Research is the most important thing, ahnds down. Solid academics (>3.6 gpa) and strong MCAT (> 94th percentile) are next in importance. Most programs want some clinical exposure.

Is double majoring worth it? Does it make for a stronger candidate? No, a double major is not worth it; it will not impress admissions committees very much. Invest the time you would have spent on a second major in your research project.

Is it a good idea to think about a co-op during sophomore year? Start your research early in your college career, unless you plan to take a gap year (~50% of MD-PhD applicants take a gap year or two). Working in a co-op with a pharma or biotech firm is OK. Doing research in different labs is OK, but you should aim to have a 2-year stint in one lab. Spending a long period of time in a single lab should allow you to tell a more sophisticated research story.

What classes, that are a part of pre-med requirements, should I be careful of that are known for their difficulty (e.g. Orgo chem) Orgo is the chief stumbling block. Make sure you get a B or better. Most schools also look at Calculus. Your curriculum should be rigorous, but not ridiculous. Do not overload your curriculum, and avoid ball busters like PChem, unless they are required for your major. You need to strike a balance between academic rigor and keeping a high gpa.

What extracurriculars have you done that made you stand a part ? or any that I may try? MD-PD programs are not particular, since research is your primary extracurricular. Do something you like doing to show that you are not just a lab rat (this will keep the MD admissions people happy), but do not overdo it.

Does the summer leading into freshman year of undergrad count for med school resumes? I'm interning in a wet lab over this summer. Everything counts, but as this will probably be your last summer of freedom for the next 50 years, you might want to do something fun. Most successful applicants to my program did not do research the summer before their freshman year.

Does A.P. credit really help? Should they be used for classes that are in your major, or is it better to re-take that class to get an easy A? We see a lot of AP credits. I would not use them for courses in your major. It is not uncommon for someone to get AP credit for the intro courses and then struggle when they take the next course in the sequence for their major. AP credit might help you get into some colleges, but it does not help you get into graduate school

Does it really matter which institution I go for my Undergrad? Would my chances be hurt if I went to a state school with an excellent biology program? Undergrad institution probably matters to some degree. 28% of MD-PhD students come from just 10 undergraduate institutions, and the next 30 institutions account for another 28% of MD-PhD students. Going to a state school that is strong in the sciences is fine. In fact, Berkeley is the top undergrad school for MD-PhD students, ahead of Harvard and all the other private schools. Other public schools in the top 40 are UCLA, Michigan, Maryland, UNC, Texas-Austin, UCSD, Florida, Maryland-Baltimore County, Illinois, Virginia, Pittsburgh, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Ohio State, Georgia, and Rutgers. Having said that, MD-PhD students come from all sorts of schools: from Abilene Christian to York College of Pennsylvania. (Sorry, no schools that begin with "Z")

 

[DrHolmes]

Hi! I discovered that the MD/PhD route existed when I was in high school too, and have just been admitted this cycle. Since I had no one to turn to for advice when I was just starting it out, here's to paying it forward!

What do MD/Ph.D. programs look for an applicant (besides research exp)?
- An honest assessment of what the career looks like, and why getting both degrees is going to help you get the career you want. Enough research experience to truly understand what you're signing up for.

Is double majoring worth it? Does it make for a stronger candidate?
- Only if you are just as successful as you would have been if you put all your time into one major. The common advice I see is major doesn't matter at all, but I'll provide myself as an anecdote to argue the opposite. I will be graduating with two degrees, and my GPA is very strong. A part of my argument for why I want this career actually ties into both of my majors, and the fact that I was academically successful through self-imposed rigor lends confidence to my potential success as a med student.

Is it a good idea to think about a co-op during sophomore year?
- It probably would be a great experience! I know one person who has taken two during undergrad and will be applying MSTP after a gap year. He's taking an extra semester to graduate, but if you finish on time, even better, - Since I won't know which school I'm going to until Mid April, what if the school I choose does not have a coop program?

What classes, that are a part of pre-med requirements, should I be careful of that are known for their difficulty (e.g. Orgo chem)
- I think this is very school dependent. At my school Gen Chem II and Orgo II are brutal, and the physics series is an absolute joke.

What extracurriculars have you done that made you stand a part ? or any that I may try?
- I have a hobby that I've been doing since I was a child that I continued in some ways at school, and it's super important to me, so it came up a few times. If there's something you love doing, do that thing! It's also always good to have some form of teaching/mentoring experience. Research is sooo heavy in communication skills.

Does the summer leading into freshman year of undergrad count for med school resumes? I'm interning in a wet lab over this summer.
- Yes if you continue it in college.

Does A.P. credit really help? Should they be used for classes that are in your major, or is it better to re-take that class to get an easy A?
- It helped immensely at my school. We were able to register for classes earlier the more credits you had, so the first two years when all the science majors are battling for the good professors/sections I was always able to get the exact schedule I wanted.

Does it really matter which institution I go for my Undergrad? Would my chances be hurt if I went to a state school with an excellent biology program?
- Go to the school that has the major you want, R1 research standing, and will cost you the least money. I am a very proud state school kid and I don't think it's held me back. Just take advantage of all the resources and opportunites available to you.

Hi! I discovered that the MD/PhD route existed when I was in high school too, and have just been admitted this cycle. Since I had no one to turn to for advice when I was just starting it out, here's to paying it forward!

What do MD/Ph.D. programs look for an applicant (besides research exp)?
- An honest assessment of what the career looks like, and why getting both degrees is going to help you get the career you want. Enough research experience to truly understand what you're signing up for.

Is double majoring worth it? Does it make for a stronger candidate?
- Only if you are just as successful as you would have been if you put all your time into one major. The common advice I see is major doesn't matter at all, but I'll provide myself as an anecdote to argue the opposite. I will be graduating with two degrees, and my GPA is very strong. A part of my argument for why I want this career actually ties into both of my majors, and the fact that I was academically successful through self-imposed rigor lends confidence to my potential success as a med student.

Is it a good idea to think about a co-op during sophomore year?
- It probably would be a great experience! I know one person who has taken two during undergrad and will be applying MSTP after a gap year. He's taking an extra semester to graduate, but if you finish on time, even better,

What classes, that are a part of pre-med requirements, should I be careful of that are known for their difficulty (e.g. Orgo chem)
- I think this is very school dependent. At my school Gen Chem II and Orgo II are brutal, and the physics series is an absolute joke.

What extracurriculars have you done that made you stand a part ? or any that I may try?
- I have a hobby that I've been doing since I was a child that I continued in some ways at school, and it's super important to me, so it came up a few times. If there's something you love doing, do that thing! It's also always good to have some form of teaching/mentoring experience. Research is sooo heavy in communication skills.

Does the summer leading into freshman year of undergrad count for med school resumes? I'm interning in a wet lab over this summer.
- Yes if you continue it in college.

Does A.P. credit really help? Should they be used for classes that are in your major, or is it better to re-take that class to get an easy A?
- It helped immensely at my school. We were able to register for classes earlier the more credits you had, so the first two years when all the science majors are battling for the good professors/sections I was always able to get the exact schedule I wanted.

Does it really matter which institution I go for my Undergrad? Would my chances be hurt if I went to a state school with an excellent biology program?
- Go to the school that has the major you want, R1 research standing, and will cost you the least money. I am a very proud state school kid and I don't think it's held me back. Just take advantage of all the resources and opportunites available to you.

 

[nonamesleft]

I think that it's great that you're interested in becoming a research physician. You will find a lot of information on this forum and elsewhere regarding what makes a "strong applicant" on paper.
Since you are just starting, I would urge you to keep an open mind about other career trajectories. If there is anything else you are interested in, I think you owe it to yourself to explore those options. In addition, there is more than one way to become a research physician. The path for you may or may not be the one that is right for others.
Good luck with your journey. We will be here to cheer you on, and to help answer any questions that arise.

 

[MSTP18]

What do MD/Ph.D. programs look for an applicant (besides research exp)?
Mine still wants the same commitment to patient care that they expect of the MD students and a well reasoned, well articulated explanation as to why either degree alone is inferior for your career goals. Lastly, they want to know how you'll fit in here. Do your interests and our faculty make sense? Do you have the basic social skills required to be a functioning member of a team of people? E.g. Did you bring a book with you to dinner with the other applicants and current students and proceed to ignore everyone as you ate and read your book while everyone else was talking? That's a true story and that person was rejected without hesitation.

Is double majoring worth it? Does it make for a stronger candidate?
As someone who did a science/humanities double it hurt with some (my commitment to science was questioned) but made me more interesting (not "stronger" although interesting still helps) to others.

Is it a good idea to think about a co-op during sophomore year?
I don't know what this is (that alone should tell you it's certainly not necessary) - is this like an internship for credit or do you mean a housing co-op?

What classes, that are a part of pre-med requirements, should I be careful of that are known for their difficulty (e.g. Orgo chem)
It's really only orgo - also I think the requirements are different from when I was a college student

What extracurriculars have you done that made you stand a part ? or any that I may try?
My program has said in the past that musicians and athletes are a big plus. Serious, college level ones though, not just recreational.

Does the summer leading into freshman year of undergrad count for med school resumes? I'm interning in a wet lab over this summer.
I would count it - especially if you do more than just that summer.

Does A.P. credit really help? Should they be used for classes that are in your major, or is it better to re-take that class to get an easy A?
Some of this will depend on your school's policies. I would say that as an MD/PhD applicant, it is better to show you have a stronger, deeper background than just a bunch of As. Remember, you're applying for graduate school here too. Also, depending on your school's grading policies, intro level courses might be harder to get As in than advanced courses because of the curve.

Does it really matter which institution I go for my Undergrad? Would my chances be hurt if I went to a state school with an excellent biology program?
It's hard to truthfully answer this question. Yes, they look at the name and consider it. I would argue you're more hurt by potentially a lack of resources and opportunities at one school vs. another rather than "the prestige." I certainly don't think you're limiting yourself in any meaningful way by going to a flagship state school with an excellent biology department (especially if it's strong in biomedical sciences specifically - e.g. not plant bio or entomology).

 

[eteshoe]

I wanted to preface my answer by saying I didn't know about the dual degree pathway until I was almost done with college. I ended up working and getting a MSc before starting. Overall the gap yrs were quite beneficial for me and I recommend at least taking a gap yr (some may disagree but honestly the pathway is so long that it's useful to at least take a step back and evaluate what you're about to get into).

What do MD/Ph.D. programs look for an applicant (besides research exp)?
- Same prerequisites as MD only applicants (less clinical hrs though) and the PhD program for which you're applying.
- 2 yrs sustained research experience (typically 3+ is what most of the people in my program tend to have).
- High MCAT (95th+ percentile), strong GPA (3.7+)
- (my program) be a friendly person-my program tends to be close knit and being supportive of one another is a personality trait we look for.
- The desire to be a physician scientist (or surgeon)

Is double majoring worth it? Does it make for a stronger candidate?
- I was a lot more hungry and ambitious coming into college so I did double major. Overall I would say it really depends on your threshold for pain, your interests, and how well you can keep up your grades. I majored in chemical engineering/biochemistry since I enjoyed the subject matter. I gave up on keeping a 4.0 (which decreased the stress) and finished off w/ a 3.8+ so can't say it wasn't worth it (at least for me). If I had to do it over, I probably wouldn't lol.

- It doesn't make you a stronger candidate and can hurt one if the GPA takes a hit. Though if you do well, I guess it prepares you for the rigors of med school in terms of having strong time management skills.

Is it a good idea to think about a co-op during sophomore year?
Yes, do it. Doesn't matter if it adds a semester to the backend of your degree, co-ops are awesome opportunities to see what it's like to work in certain careers or industry. I didn't have the chance (did internships) but had plenty of friends who loved their co-op experiences.

What classes, that are a part of pre-med requirements, should I be careful of that are known for their difficulty (e.g. Orgo chem)
Honestly, none of the premed prereqs were that bad. Ochem gets a bad rap, but if you keep up with your readings, do practice problems & hw, and utilize the resources such as office hrs, tutor center, etc. you should be able to at least get a B.

What extracurriculars have you done that made you stand a part ? or any that I may try?
I guess I was really into/passionate about helping increase diversity in STEM (tutoring, getting kids interested in science/engineering) since I'm a minority that noticed how the further I got, the less I saw. Overall, find something you're passionate about and get involved-there's no set formula to ECs.

Does the summer leading into freshman year of undergrad count for med school resumes? I'm interning in a wet lab over this summer.
It counts. I would say enjoy the summer since it's likely your last free one but hey to each his own.

Does A.P. credit really help? Should they be used for classes that are in your major, or is it better to re-take that class to get an easy A?
Since I wanted to finish in 3 yrs, AP and transfer credits (high school dual enrollment) really helped me. I skipped intro courses and had the chance to take interesting and more challenging courses in each sequence. Easy A's are fine but I'm of the opinion that one needs to improve and grow in college and sometimes that means you won't get the A - which is fine (unless you're hell bent on keeping a 4.0 lol). Though all this should be taken w/ a grain of salt since YMMV (if you struggled with the subject in high school or didn't get a 5 on the AP, I would think hard before utilizing those AP credits).

Does it really matter which institution I go for my Undergrad? Would my chances be hurt if I went to a state school with an excellent biology program?
It matters and it doesn't. Higher ranked schools have lots of opportunities but smaller programs also provide unique learning environments. Going to a state school, elite private, SLAC, etc. won't preclude you from going to a high ranked MSTP provided you have the strong scholastic performance, research, and MCAT. Just make sure you really tap into the resources of your institution provides and if need be you can always do an REU at whatever school you feel like.

 

[jesie]

Awesome that you're being so proactive on this but don't forget to live your life and have some fun along the way. Make sure you're taking time to be a high schooler and be a college kid. Part of the admissions process seems to be the schools trying to figure out if they want to spend the next eight years with you, so don't leave out other interests and hobbies. Enjoy the road, too.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

 

[wholeheartedly]

You're getting lots of great answers so I'm just going to post a simple thing I see college students in general struggle with.

FACT: It is way easier to start out strong and steady in college and maintain a solid performance than it is to start slow, get a bit behind and perform below your capabilities and then spend a boatload of time and energy playing catchup.

Sounds obvious, but a lot of people fall into the trap of procrastinating a few days cuz you've got time or have the mindset of, "oh I'll nail the next test," then it becomes the one after that, and so on. Of course you want to improve if needed and adjusting to college is a learning curve for everyone, but try to put your best foot forward right away and be steady and consistent from there. You shouldn't kill yourself, just steady and you can be successful and still enjoy yourself.

I'm a nontrad and my first time in undergrad, I got off to a slow start, was used to performing well without much time or effort and only kicked it up a little bit for college. it bit me in the butt and my grades show it. Second stint in undergrad, I started off strong and steady and destroyed most of my classes, with a much lower stress level to boot.


Good, luck.

 

[SpottyGlassware]

I'm a junior right now and will be applying MD/PhD this coming cycle. Here are my two cents:

What do MD/PhD programs look for in an applicant (besides research exp)?
Other posters have answered this pretty well. Definitely some clinical experience; I volunteer at a hospice and absolutely love it. I've also shadowed a couple doctors to learn a bit about the day-to-day challenges I'll face in the clinic. Also be able to present yourself well in a professional setting and know how to tailor your communication style to your audience; you'll be dealing with a lot of different people (fellow scientists, physicians who are exclusively clinicians, people in other health professions, patients, students, etc.). And high grades and MCAT score, obviously!

Is double majoring worth it? Does it make for a stronger applicant?
Is it worth it to you? I don't think schools really care if you double major if you can still get good grades. You might want to make this decision in college when you have more of a feel for the programs at your school. If you absolutely can't choose between two majors, then go for it! But know that your courseload will be heavier and you may have to sacrifice some other things to perform well. If one potential major has nothing to do with your career aspirations, then you may want to opt for a minor instead so you have a little more time to breathe.
Personal example: I'm a chemistry major with a Spanish minor. While I love Spanish and might use it to communicate with some patients, I'm not going to be teaching it or reading Cervantes for a living. I considered double-majoring, but it made more sense for me to focus on science.

Is it a good idea to think about a co-op during sophomore year?
That depends on your major. Do it if you want?

What pre-req classes should I be careful of? (Question re-phrased since I'm on a tablet and don't know how to copy and paste like a normal person.)
Organic chemistry is a difficult class for a lot of people. If you're nervous about it, I suggest giving yourself an otherwise light courseload during your first semester/quarter of organic. I didn't do this. My grade in that class suffered until I figured out how to study. Even though I got an A in the end, that semester made me anxious to the point that I started questioning whether chemistry (and at the worst times, even college) was right for me. My second semester of organic, I took fewer hours, came in with an idea of how to study, and did great. I was actually sad after the final exam because I loved the class so much!
For all your classes, look up instructors on RateMyProfs before registering. Aside from a few salty people who expect their professors to cater to their every whim, I've found the reviews to be fairly accurate for professors at my university. Departmental gossip also works for this, so make friends with other people in your major. A good teacher can make a world of difference in a hard class.

What extracurriculars have you done that make you stand apart/which ones could I try?
I've participated in various tutoring initiatives through major- and minor-related organizations. I don't know if that makes me stand apart, but it's something that I enjoy. I also studied abroad in Spain last summer, which was super exciting! I don't know when else I would have gotten to leave this continent! Definitely study abroad if you have the funds to do so; there are plenty of scholarships out there. We Americans have such a big country and so few borders that it's not always easy for us to go experience other cultures. Studying abroad is a fantastic way to see the world and grow as a person. I'd recommend it no matter what you end up doing in college.
Bottom line: Do things that interest you. Most schools have student organization/involvement fairs at the beginning of the year so you can choose a few clubs that you like.

Does the summer leading into freshman year count for med school resumes?
Yes, but you can also relax. Congrats on interning in a wet lab! I did that the summer before college and it was a great experience. Just don't forget to have less intellectual fun as well.

Does AP credit really help?
Yes and no. I chose to re-take some classes that were pre-reqs, which gave me a stronger foundation in those subjects moving forward. I had almost all my gen-eds taken care of by AP credit, which gave me more freedom to take classes that interested me personally and change my major and still graduate on time. Now that I'm taking upper-level classes I can take fewer credit hours per semester and have more time for research and application stuff.

Does it really matter which institution I attend for undergrad?
No, as long as you make the most of where you are. Senior year of high school, I applied to a lot of prestigious (mostly) private universities. I ended up at a large public university that had been my backup. I was bitter at the time, but looking back I don't regret it a bit. If I had gone to one of the big-name schools I would have graduated deep in debt. With the generous scholarship I have at my current school, I'm getting a quality education and don't have to worry about money. In this way, I'm much freer than some people I know, who have to think about their debt when considering their next steps out of college. I can afford to live the next several years of my life on a grad student salary without any pressure to get a "real" job and start paying off loans. Plus, going to a sports/party school has given me the chance to shine in classes where not everyone is academically inclined. I also have a new appreciation for football-- a great networking tool, BTW!
If you choose to go this same route, find a school with a good honors college. That's where the cool opportunities are.

 

[Neuronix]

What do MD/Ph.D. programs look for an applicant (besides research exp)?

Read my FAQ.

Is double majoring worth it? Does it make for a stronger candidate?

No.

Is it a good idea to think about a co-op during sophomore year?

I don't know what that is.

What classes, that are a part of pre-med requirements, should I be careful of that are known for their difficulty (e.g. Orgo chem)

All of them.

What extracurriculars have you done that made you stand a part ? or any that I may try?

Research.

Does the summer leading into freshman year of undergrad count for med school resumes? I'm interning in a wet lab over this summer.

Yes.

Does A.P. credit really help? Should they be used for classes that are in your major, or is it better to re-take that class to get an easy A?

No and can hurt. AP credits are best used for electives. Adcoms want to see you take science/pre-med classes at the University.

Does it really matter which institution I go for my Undergrad? Would my chances be hurt if I went to a state school with an excellent biology program?

Not really. No.