Being a doctor - a vocation or a job?

[DrCoffeeBean]

Does being a doctor/surgeon partly (?entirely) define who you are? Or is it something you do to earn a living and pay the bill?

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[jdh71]

Does being a doctor/surgeon partly (?entirely) define who you are? Or is it something you do to earn a living and pay the bill?

I don't think anyone can see what we do as just being a "regular job"

 

[DrCoffeeBean]

I was having this discussion with a non-medic friend of mine who is quite successful in energy industry, with the question being: would you quit your job if you had all the money you could ever want? He genuinely couldn't understand me when I said I would still work full time in medicine. So hence the question, are there doctors who see their job only as a pleasant occupation that pays the bill?

 

[2012mdc]

I was having this discussion with a non-medic friend of mine who is quite successful in energy industry, with the question being: would you quit your job if you had all the money you could ever want? He genuinely couldn't understand me when I said I would still work full time in medicine. So hence the question, are there doctors who see their job only as a pleasant occupation that pays the bill?

It's more than just a job but it won't define me.

I would definitely quit. I could impact more people and have a much more enjoyable life.

 

[Staradmiral]

For me its primarily to earn the bill. Why would I spend 8 hours a day in a hospital if I could be out with my girl, friends, travelling, hell even just watching TV. I like science, but its still work

 

[coreytayloris]

when i started MS1 i really had some ideals and probably altruistic thoughts about saving the world.

MS1 beat that out of me and by the end of the year I saw it for just a job like any other. doesn't mean I like it any less though. love it. just don't buy into the peter parker facade anymore.

 

[DrCoffeeBean]

when i started MS1 i really had some ideals and probably altruistic thoughts about saving the world.

MS1 beat that out of me and by the end of the year I saw it for just a job like any other. doesn't mean I like it any less though. love it. just don't buy into the peter parker facade anymore.

I am a final year med student currently applying for jobs. It's not about a facade, personally I get a kick out of it, job-induced high so to speak. Mind you, this could very well change once I hit the residency

 

[jdh71]

I am a final year med student currently applying for jobs. It's not about a facade, personally I get a kick out of it, job-induced high so to speak. Mind you, this could very well change once I hit the residency

Done with med school, done with residency, and working the same hours as an intern as fellow, and I LOVE my job - no way I'd quit doing what I'm doing just because I have extra money. I probably wouldn't hustle as much as I will when I'm finally done and out there working, but curing disease and saving lives is what I do. I'm living the dream.

 

[bucks2010]

It's more than just a job but it won't define me.

I would definitely quit. I could impact more people and have a much more enjoyable life.

For me its primarily to earn the bill. Why would I spend 8 hours a day in a hospital if I could be out with my girl, friends, travelling, hell even just watching TV. I like science, but its still work

I used to think like this, but I've come to realize that I need work. I work 3 days/36 hrs/ wk now and I'm nearly bored to tears with all the free time I have -- I couldn't imagine being permanently off work.

I think we all have to find some sort of balance between work and personal time. Too much in either direction leads to profound unhappiness -- either from burnout or boredom.

Someone else said it very eloquently in another thread where they said that for them, work/medicine isn't meant to be their ultimate fulfillment, but instead serve as a way for them to be a productive member of society and provide means to participate in some of the other things they enjoy in life as well.

 

[bucks2010]

Done with med school, done with residency, and working the same hours as an intern as fellow, and I LOVE my job - no way I'd quit doing what I'm doing just because I have extra money. I probably wouldn't hustle as much as I will when I'm finally done and out there working, but curing disease and saving lives is what I do. I'm living the dream.

this is where I hope to be x years from now

 

[jdh71]

this is where I hope to be x years from now

I've thrown in a little hyperbole , but I seriously like what I do.

If I had a bunch of money, I'd probably take more vacations, do more missions/overseas kind of work, teach more, research more, but no way I'd sit at home just sleeping in and golfing all day - how boring would that be?

 

[2012mdc]

I used to think like this, but I've come to realize that I need work. I work 3 days/36 hrs/ wk now and I'm nearly bored to tears with all the free time I have -- I couldn't imagine being permanently off work.

I think we all have to find some sort of balance between work and personal time. Too much in either direction leads to profound unhappiness -- either from burnout or boredom.

Someone else said it very eloquently in another thread where they said that for them, work/medicine isn't meant to be their ultimate fulfillment, but instead serve as a way for them to be a productive member of society and provide means to participate in some of the other things they enjoy in life as well.

I would work just not as a medical doctor. I'm just being honest with myself. If I had an endless supply of money I would not put myself through residency.

I'd find some part time job related to medicine, maybe dabble in some imaging research, and have a lot of fun. I can guarantee that I would not be bored if I was working part time and had endless money. There's just so much world and culture to see.

Of course I would get tired of just sleeping in and partying all the time but that would be only a portion of what I would do, not the entirety of it.

 

[Isoprop]

I don't know about you guys, but no matter what job I had, it would at least partly define who I am. When I worked full time as a cashier of a convenient store, that was part of who I was. Right now, being a student partly defines who I am.

If you spend a big chunk of your waking hours doing ONE thing or being ONE thing, then that's going to shape your identity.

 

[VPDcurt]

It is nothing more than a job.

 

[VoiceofReason]

now in my 4th year of medical school and medicine does appear to me far closer to a job than a calling.

 

[VoiceofReason]

I don't think anyone can see what we do as just being a "regular job"

which specialty are you in if you dont mind my asking

 

[jdh71]

I vote regular job.

That just boggles my mind, and I'm serious.

I do respect your right to your reality.

 

[jdh71]

which specialty are you in if you dont mind my asking

Pulmonary and Critical Care

 

[mjl1717]

Done with med school, done with residency, and working the same hours as an intern as fellow, and I LOVE my job - no way I'd quit doing what I'm doing just because I have extra money. I probably wouldn't hustle as much as I will when I'm finally done and out there working, but curing disease and saving lives is what I do. I'm living the dream.

Totally agree!!

Kids, superficial thinkers, congenitally greedy folks, and the human side of man have a hard time digesting this:

I totally agree with Barbara Fadems (psychiatric guru) statement and think this is the absolute "best" way to practice medicine.

"You don't go into medicine for money but if you happen to make some along the way its ok"

 

[DrCoffeeBean]

"You don't go into medicine for money but if you happen to make some along the way its ok"

Me likes!

 

[Sheldor]

"You don't go into medicine for money but if you happen to make some along the way its ok"

You realize this can't be true for most people? The heavily skewed (read: inaccurate) average in school loans is 150k. Given that the actual average is a good deal higher, and that it doesn't include undergrad or grad loans, this statement just isn't true.

I'm all for going into medicine because you love it, but the fact is that if you don't make money those loans will come after you with a vengeance.

 

[OveractiveBrain]

Does being a doctor/surgeon partly (?entirely) define who you are? Or is it something you do to earn a living and pay the bill?

How the rest of the world sees work.
A piece of common wisdom from self-help books and psychology research. A job should not define who you are as a person.

If your "job" is pushing paperwork, filling out budget requests, and meeting deadlines for sales managers, then this statement holds true. Who wants to be defined by how well the end-of-quarter budget report came out?

Most people in fields like this would much rather be doing something else. Their soul, their core, their reason for being, their "why" exists outside of their work. It usually resides in their family, their hobbies, or maybe even in a greater sense of greatness that they cannot explore because they are trapped by the day-to-day tidings of their work.

"People work jobs they hate to buy things they don't need to impress people they don't like"​

Unfortunately, that describes most of american workers.

How I see my job.
Now jump over to medicine. When what you do every day is end surffering, heal the sick, and comfort the dying there is more meaning in your "job." Just by doing what we do every day we are already doing great work. Work that is meaningful, that contributes to society, and to the world.

For physicians, what you do can be part of who you are. Your soul, your core, your principle, your why is something great.

Power. Most medical students, and even residents, don't feel this. We feel our lives are directed by staff, by HMOs and by CEOs of hospitals telling us what we can and cannot do. But think about it. When you sign your name on an order, it gets carried out. The routine work we do everyday has the potential to bring great harm or do great good to a patient. Even though rounds take two hours and we have to see 17 patients and the note goes in each patient, and crap, did we remember morning labs on patient 5071 in room 2234? Even though THAT is what rounds FEELS like, we very rarely cosnider the ramifications.

There are people who sit in a cubicle doing one task. They do the task poorly because they get paid the same either way. They long for their lunch break so they can get out from underneath their manager or supervisor. They play flash games and check emails just to pass the time in order for the day to be over. They work 9-5 and are stuck in traffic every day. They have no control, no power.

What is tedious and boring for us is quite possibly one of the greatest responsibilities a person can bestow: direct control of a human life.

Put them together.
Our work gives us control, not only of our own lives but of the lives of our patients. Our boring, tedious "job" brings great good to the world. Our souls are filled and our most primal needs are satisfied. There are very few jobs where people feel this way. Other people may be happy at work, they may enjoy their job, they may even love what they do. But in the end, medicine provides more than just a decent paycheck, it provides us with a reason to work, the ability to become masters in our own domain, and the freedom and control to do it our own way.

Why wouldn't I want to stay in medicine?

 

[OveractiveBrain]

This is exactly why I have so much difficulty developing friendships with colleagues. I find this type of belief childish and annoying, but I suspect most people with MD after their name would agree with it...

What then do you see your work as? Why did you go into medicine?

Not harassing, I am legitimately interested in learning why you want to practice medicine?

 

[CaptainSSO]

Hard to say I think. I just started M1 and I'm already feeling a bit jaded. I didn't think this would happen to me, but it sure as hell didn't take very long. A year ago I was about half/half. Of course, what I'm doing now is totally removed from actual patient care, so I can't really comment. What I'm doing now isn't making the slightest difference to anyone's health except my own (and that is, damaging it).

 

[mjl1717]

You realize this can't be true for most people? The heavily skewed (read: inaccurate) average in school loans is 150k. Given that the actual average is a good deal higher, and that it doesn't include undergrad or grad loans, this statement just isn't true.

I'm all for going into medicine because you love it, but the fact is that if you don't make money those loans will come after you with a vengeance.

That's the big thing.. (I knew this was coming) You have to be able to "take a loan and more"-that you may have to pay back for the rest of your bloody life!!..

**As I said many, especially "genecidally greed" folks will NOT be able to digest Barbara Fadems profound statement!

[But I'm sticking with my guns! (I believe in her statement)]
[I've seen guys, big CEO's, etc. fall real far, real fast being greedy!! And I refuse to go with this..]

Who ever said life was easy???

 

[jdh71]

I went into for (1) the personal challenge, and (2) the money. I enjoy what I do. I am a workaholic at baseline, so the hours suit me well. I tend to be aggressive and decisive, so the culture makes sense. I see patients, I work hard, and I take pride in doing the absolute best job I can do for them regardless of the personal cost.

But I believe that this is just a job. I am a person separate from the work that I do, and I would be the same person if I worked in a convenience store, a restaurant, or a bank. I also question whether the work we do actually makes as big of a difference as we claim. NNT is a disheartening concept when you start running the numbers for most of our treatments...

Maybe everyone is getting a little twisted over their own semantics.

I'm not out to save the world, far from it.

I completely identify with your workaholic, aggressive/decisive bit as well.

For me, it just feels like this is a "calling" as hoarky as that might sound. I've had other jobs, and those were just jobs to me. I'm not saying all I am is my job, but rather I think it's a bigger deal not just to me, but to others. It's something different.

 

[DrYoda]

I prefer to think of it as a sacred duty.

 

[NH14]

Pick up some Sartre and get back to us...

What do you mean by this? Sartre's entire thesis was based upon the concept that we define our reality... although, yes it is all meaningless in the 'end', as humans were not here very long and we will eventually become extinct from the universe...sad, but undoubtedly true.

 

[Siverhideo1985]

It's a job. But in my opinion its the best damn job there is. And for me its not because I get to "heal the sick", put the M.D. next to my name, or find it to be a true calling in life (all valid reasons for other people, I'm sure). It's because this path lets me do things and make experiences that I would get nowhere else. I've used my thumb to stuff gauze up a cadavers butt before removing its leg, I've seen life leave a persons body, I've been the first person to hold a baby after its birth, I've laughed and cried with patients, and the future holds much more. It's got technology, humanity, emotions, research, teamwork, hands-on work, intellectual challanges and diversity all rolled into one. Sure beats the hell out of any other job I can think of. I wouldn't have it any other way. But I still enjoy my weekends off.

 

[CaptainSSO]

I've used my thumb to stuff gauze up a cadavers butt before removing its leg

What an enviable experience...

 

[Sheldor]

It's a job. But in my opinion its the best damn job there is. And for me its not because I get to "heal the sick", put the M.D. next to my name, or find it to be a true calling in life (all valid reasons for other people, I'm sure). It's because this path lets me do things and make experiences that I would get nowhere else. I've used my thumb to stuff gauze up a cadavers butt before removing its leg, I've seen life leave a persons body, I've been the first person to hold a baby after its birth, I've laughed and cried with patients, and the future holds much more. It's got technology, humanity, emotions, research, teamwork, hands-on work, intellectual challanges and diversity all rolled into one. Sure beats the hell out of any other job I can think of. I wouldn't have it any other way. But I still enjoy my weekends off.

Quoted for truth.

Also, for the record, it is okay to love your job AND earn money. SDN frustratingly seems to feel these are mutually exclusive.

 

[Vikingwizardguy]

This is sort of a disheartening thread (especially combined with other threads). Are many of the users here who say medicine is for the check saying that they would not practice in a more socialist system? I don't mind doing a job for the money in basically any other profession but in medicine...your attitude may or may not save a life...it's just like being a cop, firefighter, or EMT worker.

For those who see this as just a job...does it ever worry you that your attitude towards medicine may cost a life one day? I understand every resident will lose a patient but the thought of "i gave my best" won't be there for someone who sees this as just a job.

 

[officedepot]

I was having this discussion with a non-medic friend of mine who is quite successful in energy industry, with the question being: would you quit your job if you had all the money you could ever want? He genuinely couldn't understand me when I said I would still work full time in medicine. So hence the question, are there doctors who see their job only as a pleasant occupation that pays the bill?

you're still a student. that's why you would keep working. Wait until you are done with residency and have worked a couple years after and see if you still think the same...

 

[officedepot]

It's a job. But in my opinion its the best damn job there is. And for me its not because I get to "heal the sick", put the M.D. next to my name, or find it to be a true calling in life (all valid reasons for other people, I'm sure). It's because this path lets me do things and make experiences that I would get nowhere else. I've used my thumb to stuff gauze up a cadavers butt before removing its leg, I've seen life leave a persons body, I've been the first person to hold a baby after its birth, I've laughed and cried with patients, and the future holds much more. It's got technology, humanity, emotions, research, teamwork, hands-on work, intellectual challanges and diversity all rolled into one. Sure beats the hell out of any other job I can think of. I wouldn't have it any other way. But I still enjoy my weekends off.

hate to be a downer but you realize that no one around you cares about that at all right? The mother of that child doesn't care you were the first person to hold it. She does not know you and will never see you again and it doesn't matter to her at all. Now if your thoughts keep you going then that's OK... but for me I just appreciate it if someone actually cares about what I do for them.

but I agree... regardless for your drive it beats the hell out of any other job for sure.

 

[ArcGurren]

Everyone has their own personal reasons for going into medicine. I know personally of at least 2-3 people who blatantly went into it for the money (though I'm not sure it's going to be as much as they expected, given their Step 1 scores...) and think of it as a job. That's perfectly a legitimate reason for it. So is considering it a "calling", so is liking the cool stuff, etc.

The only thing I think that is REQUIRED of someone going into medicine is a sense of compassion and respect, and there are definitely people who do not have it. They instead have egos which make them disrespect their patients and show no compassion for them. Sure you're going to run into patients and other docs you might not like, but respect and compassion should be the foremost qualities NO MATTER what you run into. Sadly, I feel like there's a lot of people who use medicine as a way of inflating their egos (dickish surgeons who would be fired in any other job because of their behavior come to mind).

My personal reasons:

1. I love science, I love thinking critically about something, and I love using my brain to figure out what's wrong with a person. There's something rewarding about it.

2. It allows me to interact with all sorts of people. Disease can be an equalizer of sorts, in that no matter how rich or poor you are, you can end up very sick - and therefore you get to see everyone on their basic human level.

3. I consider it partly a calling since I don't feel I could do anything else.

4. Money is an obvious consideration.

5. It's a job where I spend my entire day doing good and helping others. As a lawyer, for example, you might be defending people you know are guilty of a crime. You might also be suing people who shouldn't be sued. But in medicine you're still fixing something, whether or not it contributes to their overall health (as in primary care) or whether you're fixing someone's body image (as in plastic surgery). I wouldn't have it any other way.

 

[45408]

I also question whether the work we do actually makes as big of a difference as we claim. NNT is a disheartening concept when you start running the numbers for most of our treatments...

That's why I went into surgery. There are plenty of people whose lives we save, on a somewhat regular basis. The guy who comes in with something like grossly perforated diverticulitis would die if we didn't intervene. Instead, they walk out the hospital.

The NNT for someone otherwise healthy benefiting from you fixing their broken arm can't be much higher than 1.0, don't you think?


Anyway, I do identify myself to a fair extent by my degree/field, so I voted that it's more than "just a job."

 

[45408]

hate to be a downer but you realize that no one around you cares about that at all right? The mother of that child doesn't care you were the first person to hold it.

Do you have kids? Has a physician saved the life of someone in your family?

That truly means nothing to you? Maybe your patients never express sincere gratitude, but I see it fairly often.

 

[mjl1717]

Everyone has their own personal reasons for going into medicine. I know personally of at least 2-3 people who blatantly went into it for the money (though I'm not sure it's going to be as much as they expected, given their Step 1 scores...) and think of it as a job. That's perfectly a legitimate reason for it. So is considering it a "calling", so is liking the cool stuff, etc.

The only thing I think that is REQUIRED of someone going into medicine is a sense of compassion and respect, and there are definitely people who do not have it. They instead have egos which make them disrespect their patients and show no compassion for them. Sure you're going to run into patients and other docs you might not like, but respect and compassion should be the foremost qualities NO MATTER what you run into. Sadly, I feel like there's a lot of people who use medicine as a way of inflating their egos (dickish surgeons who would be fired in any other job because of their behavior come to mind).

My personal reasons:

1. I love science, I love thinking critically about something, and I love using my brain to figure out what's wrong with a person. There's something rewarding about it.

2. It allows me to interact with all sorts of people. Disease can be an equalizer of sorts, in that no matter how rich or poor you are, you can end up very sick - and therefore you get to see everyone on their basic human level.

3. I consider it partly a calling since I don't feel I could do anything else.

4. Money is an obvious consideration.

5. It's a job where I spend my entire day doing good and helping others. As a lawyer, for example, you might be defending people you know are guilty of a crime. You might also be suing people who shouldn't be sued. But in medicine you're still fixing something, whether or not it contributes to their overall health (as in primary care) or whether you're fixing someone's body image (as in plastic surgery). I wouldn't have it any other way.

You covered a lot..

 

[officedepot]

Do you have kids? Has a physician saved the life of someone in your family?

That truly means nothing to you? Maybe your patients never express sincere gratitude, but I see it fairly often.

lol nah it was more along the lines that the guy I was quoting made it seem so glorious and rewarding and that money should never be in consideration.

sure patients can express gratitude and that can make you feel good but I think it wears off in time.


btw things like money and job security are not a driving force for my reasons to go into medicine. That's generally not stuff I thought about 3rd year in college. But now I definitely think about it more as I begin applying for residencies...

 

[Siverhideo1985]

hate to be a downer but you realize that no one around you cares about that at all right? The mother of that child doesn't care you were the first person to hold it. She does not know you and will never see you again and it doesn't matter to her at all. Now if your thoughts keep you going then that's OK... but for me I just appreciate it if someone actually cares about what I do for them.

but I agree... regardless for your drive it beats the hell out of any other job for sure.

You misunderstand...it's got nothing to do with glory. Those experiences weren't great because I received external validation or recognition for my work...they were rewarding because they were interesting and because of their novelty. If your job satisfaction is based on patient appreciation alone, I think you're in for a rude wake-up call. If my patient likes me and thanks me for what I already find to be an interesting job then that's just a cherry on top.

 

[Morsetlis]

It's like being a Holy Paladin, ok. Sure, you can change your spec, but then you don't got the gear to support it in the latest tier of content.

My dentist plays WoW.

 

[VoiceofReason]

That's why I went into surgery. There are plenty of people whose lives we save, on a somewhat regular basis. The guy who comes in with something like grossly perforated diverticulitis would die if we didn't intervene. Instead, they walk out the hospital.

The NNT for someone otherwise healthy benefiting from you fixing their broken arm can't be much higher than 1.0, don't you think?


Anyway, I do identify myself to a fair extent by my degree/field, so I voted that it's more than "just a job."

this is also one of the major reasons i am going into anesthesia. I need to feel like the things im participating in mean something, if only relatively. The vast majority of the rest of medicine (outside the OR), and even a lot of surgeries, don't appear to me very helpful. In a lot of cases, on the medicine floor for example, i was never really sure if the patient got better despite what we did, or in small part because of what we did. And i hated that feeling.

 

[vnicolas]

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