What are the benefits of being an academic psychiatrist?
Benefits of Academics
- Thread starter BobA
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2005
- Messages
- 1,963
- Reaction score
- 13
1) You get to teach a lot (this is really probably reasons 1-5)
2) You're salaried, so you get paid no matter how few patients you see (important for services that run hot and cold like CL)
3) Research structure
4) The ever debatable "prestige"
5) You have the chance to advance to administrative positions, not just within the medical school, but in a university as a whole. For example, the provost of Harvard University is a psychiatrist - this is at least as big a job as being COO of a major corporation.
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2007
- Messages
- 622
- Reaction score
- 1
6) You are surrounded by some really interesting people. The best memories of my time in Cambridge are linked not to my research (let me re-phrase it, "the best memories of my time in Cambridge are NOT linked to my research there") but to Formal Halls (joint formal dinners with faculty, kind of like in Harry Potter, except as a postgrad student you get invited to High Tables) and punting trips with archaeologists, physiologists, pharmacologists, physicists, astronomers... Really broadens your horizons.
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2007
- Messages
- 4,322
- Reaction score
- 1,579
If you are a good public speaker, you can make tons of $$ giving talks for drug companies.
- Joined
- Aug 12, 2008
- Messages
- 521
- Reaction score
- 0
- Joined
- Dec 22, 2007
- Messages
- 4,322
- Reaction score
- 1,579
how much?I love public speaking!
I'm not, which is one of the reasons why I decided to leave academics and go into private practice.
The standard for giving a drug talk at a local dinner is $500-1000. For giving a talk at an annual meeting it's $2000-$5000.
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 708
- Reaction score
- 98
The sky's the limit, actually, depending on how much you are willing to act as a salesman for the pharm industry. Just look at our esteemed colleague Dr. Nemeroff.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2004
- Messages
- 6,366
- Reaction score
- 4,296
Ok, so now this thread is reminding me of this thread in General Residency Issues...
- Joined
- Oct 28, 2006
- Messages
- 708
- Reaction score
- 98
Ok, so now this thread is reminding me of this thread in General Residency Issues...
Right. I was this close to using a word instead of "salesman" that rhymes with "score".
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2008
- Messages
- 57
- Reaction score
- 1
Out of curiousity, what is the best of way of situating yourself for a job as an academic psychiatrist?
If this is my ambition, how much does it matter where I do my MD? Can a person make a jump into a university position as an professor of psychiatry even if they go to a lower tier medical school?
I guess the reason I'm asking is this.
I'm a [very] non-traditional student -- 38 years old -- coming back into the sciences after a very long hiatus from it. I think I have a shot at getting into a lower tier medical school **this year** (MCAT: 32, GPA: 3.87, no recent science classes, no recent research, no recent volunteer work -- although I published about 3 sole author scientific papers **around 15 years ago**, and received a number of prestigious scientific/academic scholarships at that time).
I'm kinda late in the applications cycle for medical school this year... and though I've written my AMCAS essays and have submitted them, I have considered withdrawing 'cause it's so far into the cycle already. I think if I withdraw my application and wait to apply until next year I could probably get into a better medical school. [I believe I could increase my MCAT score to about a 36 or so, if I studied, and could demonstrate more commitment to medicine by doing some volunteer work or getting involved with a research group and getting some recent recommendations -- most of mine are from 10 years ago.]
But if my ambition is to be a professor of psychiatry, should I hold off until next year to apply with the hopes of getting into a better school to lay the groundwork for a possible bid for a professor psychiatry position? ... or should I go ahead and go for it this year... even with third-tier schools... and see if I get in anywhere... with the understanding that if I were to aspire to an academic psychiatry position, I would be predominantly judged by the research I was able to do rather than the school I came from.
Thanks for your thoughts.
- Joined
- Jun 29, 2004
- Messages
- 575
- Reaction score
- 37
It absolutely DOES NOT matter where you go to medical school. What matters most are your grades, step1 scores, LORs, research, etc. Also, if anything about "where" you trained matters, it would be where you did your residency, not med school.
Also, you can go to any med school and train at any residency you want (to a certain extent), and still become a professor of psychiatry. It just does not matter.
Also, you can go to any med school and train at any residency you want (to a certain extent), and still become a professor of psychiatry. It just does not matter.
- Joined
- Dec 2, 2005
- Messages
- 1,963
- Reaction score
- 13
I agree. Go to your state school and pay as little as possible. Residency and beyond are what counts. There are only a couple of residencies that are snobby enough to downgrade you based on your medical school.
- Joined
- Apr 22, 2007
- Messages
- 2,387
- Reaction score
- 126
It matters some. It probably doesn't matter enough for you to not throw your hat in the ring this year. But don't expect to get an interview from MGH no matter how perfect you are if you go to Podunk U school of monkey medicine. Going to a lower-tiered school probably disqualifies you from about 5-10 programs, and might make matches at a few others tough.
But honestly, there are enough really good psychiatry residencies that you probably shouldn't worry if a handful at the very top will snub you. If your goal is to be a solid academic psychiatrist, you can certainly make that goal happen if you apply this cycle and see what happens.
You can always apply this year and then consider your options once you have your offers. Those are reasonable stats, and may not be as uncompetitive as you think, depending where in the country you are wanting to go to school.
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2008
- Messages
- 57
- Reaction score
- 1
Wow. Thanks. That's great to hear.
I probably have just been watching too much of the "Grand Rounds of Psychiatry at Yale" ... [http://www.med.yale.edu/psych/education/grandrounds.html ] where all the speakers seem to have gone to fancy schmantzy medical schools....
At anyrate, with your advice, I suppose I should at least *try* to get in to medical school this cycle, then... even it means the bottom of the barrel... I think I have a shot.... Thanks again for your great advice...
I think it does only matter some but not much. I think it'd be an uphill climb from a Caribbean school.
Doing research during medical school will be very important. The summer between first and second year is a good time to start, and try to continue to do research. Most programs where you could launch an academic career want to see sustained interest in research. While psych isn't nearly as competitive, my friends going into research careers in neuroradiology and neurosurgery both had multiple publications prior to medical school and have kept publishing.
Doing research during medical school will be very important. The summer between first and second year is a good time to start, and try to continue to do research. Most programs where you could launch an academic career want to see sustained interest in research. While psych isn't nearly as competitive, my friends going into research careers in neuroradiology and neurosurgery both had multiple publications prior to medical school and have kept publishing.
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2008
- Messages
- 57
- Reaction score
- 1
@Billy and Doc Samson: Thanks for the dose of reality about going to a lower-tiered school... and the actuality that a priori such attendance might disqualify me from certain "snobby" residencies.
@Billy: Thanks for the encouragement about my stats.... [it's really my age and having been out of the loop for so long and "demonstrations of commitment" that's I'm worried might be an issue]... but who knows... maybe I'll get in somewhere that's not bottom-tier but mid-level... and wouldn't that be cool...
- Joined
- Dec 29, 2005
- Messages
- 8
- Reaction score
- 0
Although this is a longer term consideration, health care benefits for you and your family are great, as well as relationships with other physicians at your institution. Another benefit is most universities will let your kids attend college at that university for free, or often pay upto 50% of tuition at another college - and retirement benefits are quite good.
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2004
- Messages
- 7,931
- Reaction score
- 3,985
Having worked in a community hospital & university hospital in residency-
Several psychiatrists not working in an academic setting are of the "old country" type. They may not be up to date on the latest data. I bet a lot of them don't know much if anything about Vagal Nerve Stimulators or TMS.
Several of them however do more clinical work (no resident to dump work upon) & have a better business sense.
Doctors in unversity hospitals are working with others, several of which are on the cutting edge of research, have the latest data & want to teach it. Several of them from my own experience have more of a passion to teach & learn vs the lot I've seen outside academia. I have though seen doctors in a university setting admit to being there because they wanted to have a resident to do the dirty work, while they could just sit back & watch.
The above is a generality. I've of course seen doctors not know their stuff in university hospitals, & docs that wanted to teach in community settings.
Several psychiatrists not working in an academic setting are of the "old country" type. They may not be up to date on the latest data. I bet a lot of them don't know much if anything about Vagal Nerve Stimulators or TMS.
Several of them however do more clinical work (no resident to dump work upon) & have a better business sense.
Doctors in unversity hospitals are working with others, several of which are on the cutting edge of research, have the latest data & want to teach it. Several of them from my own experience have more of a passion to teach & learn vs the lot I've seen outside academia. I have though seen doctors in a university setting admit to being there because they wanted to have a resident to do the dirty work, while they could just sit back & watch.
The above is a generality. I've of course seen doctors not know their stuff in university hospitals, & docs that wanted to teach in community settings.
Last edited:
